While the PlayStation 4 Pro was marketed as a 4K console, it settled for much lower resolutions overall. Some titles, like Horizon Zero Dawn, implemented elegant reconstruction techniques to cover for this – a technology colloquially referred to as FauxK by some corners of the Internet.
It doesn’t look like the PlayStation 5 will be relying on the same techniques, however, as Digital Foundry’s early analysis of the system’s recent reveal event suggests that Demon's Souls, Kena: Bridge of Spirits, Little Devil Inside, Pragmata, Deathloop, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, Returnal, and Stray all run in native 4K. It also believes Horizon Forbidden West and Gran Turismo 7 run at 2160p, but it’s waiting on more footage to confirm.
Some may argue that the pursuit of native 4K is a waste of resources, especially as the artefacting caused by the aforementioned reconstruction techniques are practically imperceptible to the average eye. Many of the titles also run at 30 frames-per-second, where Astro’s Playroom and Sackboy: A Big Adventure both experience resolution dips while running at 60 frames-per-second.
Still, it’s good to know that native 4K appears to be the target for many developers working on the PS5, especially when it comes to graphically intensive titles such as Demon’s Souls and Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart. Time for a television upgrade? It could well be.
[source eurogamer.net]
Comments 67
'Some (Sammy) may argue that the pursuit of native 4K is a waste of resources'
And I agree. It's time we leave the resolution marketing from current gen behind and move on to the real stuff. Arent people tired of that crap?
Digital Foundry have been very positive so far. They seemed to be particularly keen on Ratchet and Clank, with the dimensional switching thing being only possible with the SSD.
I sold off some of my possessions to grab an LG OLED and I couldn’t be happier with that decision. I’ve been watching favorite films in 4K, playing visually impressive PS4 games, all the stuff you’d assume. Right now I’m watching through the Harry Potter films!
As long as resolutions don’t drop into Switch levels (even exclusive titles like Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition, delivering a dynamic 720p, are hard to stomach for me), I’m fine. I prefer a (stable) 1080p/60 over 4K/(unstable)30.
I think it's best to expect most native 4k games to run at 30fps. Most people will end up wanting amazing graphics, instant load times and high fidelity and that comes at a cost regardless of how powerful the system is.
Honestly, would've preferred 1080 at stable 60 fps.
Honestly, as long as the games keep a stable framerate, regardless if it's 30 or 60, I'll be happy with whichever resolution the games ship with.
I don't care about 4K if it runs at 60 FPS as I can barely tell the difference in resolution when everything is moving.
I can totally tell the difference between 30 and 60, and I very much dislike playing when the framerate is unstable.
4K looks brilliant but I’d take checkerboarding if it was in 60FPS. I don’t exactly see any game only running in 1080p at 60FPS, PS4 Pro can do that easily and this is a brand new console we’re talking about.
Just hope games give us a choice to boost the frame rate at the cost of resolution. At least give us options if we're aiming for 4K/30fps.
I don’t necessarily care about native 4K if the checkerboard solution looks good enough. I am playing Spider-Man again on my 4K TV and it is seriously good enough for me. In that case I’d rather choose checkerboard 4K/60fps over native 4K/30fps.
I personally don't have a problem with 30fps as long as its smooth and stable. I'm sure games that are usually 60fps will continue to be like first person shooters, fighting games, racing and sports games etc. I think I will upgrade to 4k TV ready for ps5, 1080p is fine for now with my ps4 pro.
@NotSmartEnough true but they also pointed many negatives as well including sub 30 fps frame rates multiple times.
Also the ssd though impressive I do not think the effects shown wouldn't be possible with a standard ssd but definitely not with a hdd.
The demo where they were flying through multiple worlds seems more like "on rails" cinematic vs actual gameplay and in the gameplay portion when they "teleported" it was more like a super fast travel vs literally going to a separate world. Like in the on rails part. I am glad to see that it still shied signs of actual loading (with the slight hitching between transitions) but I don't think it wouldnt be something a dev designing a game from the ground up with a 2.5-3.5gbps level device wouldn't be able to do.
Time will tell but I have a strong feeling we will see similar "tricks" commonplace on Xbox within a short time. The difference between a hard drive and a ssd is massive and once devs can't always rely on having at least that they will be able to ndo things they've never done before. The difference through between the 2 ssd's (say pci-e 3.0 3000gb/s vs pci-e 4.0 5000gb/s drives) is marginal at best as once you get to these speeds what took 30 seconds on hard drive is now 2 and the extra fast drive will only bring that down to maybe 1.
Yes its faster but it doesn't mean its doing anything that the other won't be able to do rather closely to the same (maybe the slight hitching seen in the demo is slightly longer) that kind of thing.
@tatsumi
Exactly! Brute forcing native 4k is very poor resource management.
Obviously 4k/60 SHOULD be where they are targeting but I understand with some limitations on their power even with optimizing on the low level stuff they just can't push that in high demanding games. But what should have been sacrificed is resolution (via dynamic res and or checkerboarding) not frame rate. 30 fps just isn't acceptable in 2020 especially at full 4k, if you have the power to do 4k just don't do that and direct that power to getting the fps up to where it should be. If your console can't do this then maybe you need to rethink your priorities in your design.
The last Gen was already seeking full 4k (on Xbox one x) or at the least "fake 4k" on ps4 pro) the only thing that was missing was the cpu power to push the fps beyond the (it was always said to be the cpu that was holding us back from 60fps).
Well we have that power now and to not use it in this way is foolish and really makes the leap to the next gen feel kinda pointless the graphics aren't REALLY going to improve too much between the two and a bump is res is the hardest thing to really see whereas the moment you switch everything to 60 fps or beyond people instantly "get it".
I'm currently playing through last of us "remastered" on my pro and I keep playing with the display settings and though I have a hard time seeing the difference between a lot of it the moment I go to the settings that lock the fps to 30 fps (even at 2160p) it feels absolutely miserable.
I'd take 1080p/60 over 4k/30 and I find the 1800p/60-ish mode to be the best choice.
Things like this MUST be an option if you're going to still be stubborn and push for 4k/30fps gaming.
If a game ONLY does 30 fps there's a good chance I'll just skip it. I get physically ill when I have to use it and I don't think I should have to go through that discomfort in 2020.
I don't care if they pursuit or target 4k, 8k or 16k.
GIVE. PLAYERS. THE. OPTION to play at 60fps.
4k is such a fad, who spends their times playing games not moving and staring at foliage and assets aside from those who work for Digital Foundry and the photo mode fanatics.
Frame rate is more of a game changer, and in my opinion if Sony don't offer us the option to prioritize 60fps over 4k then they have failed with delivering the self proclaimed "biggest generational leap" they seem to keep reiterating.
I love looking at crisp images, but I'd rather have higher framerates anyday.
I have no other reason to upgrade, and it'd effectively make the price of the console a full grand or more for me, even if I snagged a cheap 4K set. Not excited by the idea of games on the console running at lower framerates in order to hit some costly resolution goal that I won't even be able to enjoy the benefits of, personally, so I hope games offer some sort of performance mode when possible.
Just buy a pc it’s 2020 and u are still playing games at 30 FPS ahha. What a joke these new consoles are
@Possessed What a joke of a comment you have. I guess that makes you a joke here. Also, if you are a PC Gamer, then why are you even bothering commenting on a PlayStation site? I'm sure you can find something better to do than trolling. Bye now.
aaaAAAAARRGGHH FRAME RATE BEFORE RESOLUTION!!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH EVERYONE?!?
It's like some people don't think about all applications... I have a native 4k projector that i play games on and 4k matters to me.
But frame rate is also very important, moreso in games than movies. I expect 4k/60 from the ps5 and going to be upset if we are stuck with choosing between the two. Developers shouldn't be limited this gen unless they're lazy.
I HAVE to buy a 4K tv before the PS5 comes out 🙄
@ILikeStake It does take a while before devs get used to the new hardware, even first party ones. Look at the difference between Final Fantasy X and XII, the lifespan of the PS2 between them, or even between Killzone Shadow Fall and TLOU2. We might well see some 30FPS games before they work out how to utilise the hardware effectively and properly push it. It’s a bit harsh to call the devs lazy when we really don’t know the intricacies of the hardware yet.
What's concerning is how many titles apparently aren't targeting 60fps, this is far more important for gaming than 4K ever will be. DLSS is starting to produce better visuals in motion from 1440p than native 4K, freeing up resources for higher framerates or ray tracing and such.
Recently I've been playing the likes of Resident Evil 3 and Doom Eternal which just look and feel much better to play than the majority of other games out there due to targeting 60fps. At the very least we should be given a choice, I'd much rather have a bit less foliage in Horizon 2 but have silky smooth gameplay.
Your TV can't show 4K in motion anyway so what's the point?
@InsertUsername well maybe I actually thought about buying one for a sum games . But I ain’t playing games at 60 FPS or less lol guess I’ll just buy an 3080 ti and play games at 4 k with full ray tracing at 100 plus FPS . While u play your jerky as 30 FPS 😂 with minimal ray tracing lol
Every single game at Sony’s event ran at 30FPS, NO ONE has any idea what FPS the games actually ran at in the console, and I bet you anything most are at 60FPS 4K, don’t believe a word the fakes at Digital Foundry say, it’s as though they missed the part when Sony said the entire stream would be 1080P 30FPS.. and then they made assumptions based on that!! SMH..
I’ll only believe the resolution and FPS from the developers themselves, Sony or when the console is in my hands, otherwise it’s all fake news from fake You Tube wanna be’s, including Digital Foundry.
Microsoft themselves have states the Sereis X is targeting 4K 120FPS, and remembering the very fast powerful hardware inside the new consoles, which you still cannot buy for a PC, still makes me think we will see many games at 4K 60FPS, that new assassin time loop game has been confirmed by the developers at 4K 60 for example. Yeah I’ll wait till I hear from reliable sources as opposed to random wanna be’s on You Tube.
@Cybrshrk The PS5 SSD is over twice as fast as the Series X one, hardly miniscuke, you have no idea how much of a difference it makes, but developers do and all I’ve seen are endless devs praising the PS5 SSD, not the Series X one. So I think respectfully your totally wrong.
I'm perfectly happy with my current 1080p Bravia tele. I don't think forking out another £500 for a slight visual upgrade is worth it.
@Possessed - sounds an interesting idea. I have a PC so googled the 3080ti but it’s over £1000! I can’t afford that ☹️ Especially if I need to upgrade my pc just to be able to run it. Don’t even know if I could do it.
@S1ayeR74 it might be over twice as fast but even that Xbox SSD is 50 times faster than what we have today. I didn't see anything other than possibly Ratchet and Clank that couldn't have been achieved on a normal hard drive let alone the one Xbox has as well. Both are going to be great gaming machines but I do wonder if Xbox will have the edge in framerates due to its variable rate shading technology. Though I see no reason why many of the games shown shouldn't have a 60fps option or may well get there anyway with more development time
Upscaling is so good today that 1440p looks almost like 4k and i would invest these resources to something more visible like framerate or overall detail. It's just marketing.
"Many of the titles also run at 30 frames-per-second"
But my console gaming experience up to this point has all been sub 4k/60fps and I haven't enjoyed a single second of it. What I need is an arbitrary stat to find these pieces of artertainment enjoyable. Though since MS have announced they have invented a framerate above 60, I'm not sure I can even enjoy 60fps anymore. Therefore I have decided to wear a blindfold whenever playing video games, so I don't have to witness this absolutely unforgivable eyesore.
It is a bit disappointing to hear, if only cos it will be another stick people can bash Sony and PS5 with. I did think 4K 60 fps would be a standard next gen, but if it takes a 1000 quid graphics card to do that then I suppose compromises will have to be made at times. I'm not one that notices if something is 30fps or 60fps, only if there are sudden changes, so would prefer a stable frame rate is targeted by developers whatever that maybe. A higher resolution is easier to show off than higher frame rate to investors, in trailers, etc so that is one of the reasons why the majority of developers target it. Plus I'm not a developer so I have no idea how easy it is to implement when making a game.
@carlos82 The fact you think that the effects and instant loading in the new Ratchet and Clank can be performed in a ‘normal hard drive’, shows how little you understood or appreciated what they have done, and how the SSD has enabled them to do that, every time you saw them jump into another world would require a loading screen or scene on a hard drive fact, and most likely the Series X SSD too which isn’t that much faster then other drives.
You will see tricks in PS5 games that no other game will have.
Well none of these games are out yet so this is all pure speculation.
@S1ayeR74 well apparently you have difficulty even reading what I said, as I used Ratchet and Clank as the exception, I've also stated on several articles on here that Ratchet & Clank was the game that showed off what the SSD might be capable of but apparently it's my comprehension that's the issue here 🙄
I used to question 4K and preferred 1080p/60. Until I started God of War in both options for comparison purposes. You can't go back to 1080p after that. That's my opinion BUT I do agree that framerate is more important than resolution most of the time. If 4K means 30fps, devs should go the 1440p/1800p 60 fps route.
@gollumb82 for God of War I agree but mainly because its 60fps mode isn't anywhere near 60fps so a stable 30 plays better anyway. Ironically it's "4K" mode is the perfect advert for next gen games running at 60fps as its reconstructed from a lower resolution, saving resources for higher framerates and looks virtually as good as 4K
@carlos82
I'm no expert so I'll take your word for it. All I know is there is a difference in higher resolution and it should become standard for PS5 games. If it's native 4K, or 1440p/1800p, doesn't matter that much. Unstable and low framerate should be inexcusable next gen, as well.
@ShogunRok yeah I agree, the option to choose between resolution/frame rate would be nice.
Was it Bluepoint that’s already confirmed this for demons souls? Can’t remember...
Even with a 2019 4K OLED TV my priority will always be 60 FPS like the most voted comments on here. It makes games more enjoyable, controls are improved and lag is reduced.
I got a 4k hdr TV in November and the combination of native 4k and hdr is great but its hdr that is the game changer, not 4k. Replayed the last of us remastered and the hdr made such a difference. Its obviously going to depend on the density of the world and the quality of the AI but I thought next gen would be 4k at 30 fps or checkerboard at 60, given mid console refresh can practically handle that now. Dynamic scaling stuff might help.
@carlos82 Not sure how else I’m meant to take it when you inform me that the loading in Ratchet and Clank can be performed on a normal hard drive. Perhaps it is your comprehension.
@S1ayeR74 when have I ever said that?
@S1ayeR74 "I didn't see anything other than possibly Ratchet and Clank that couldn't have been achieved on a normal hard drive"
Nothing other than.
He didn't say Ratchet and Clank could be done on a HDD, he said it was the only game that that potentially required a super fast SSD.
I will be actually shocked and maybe saddened if GT7 doesn't run at 4k 60fps minimum and should be for all games at this stage on ps5, I degree later down the line they drop the resolution or fps due to the devs learning new things to use the graphics in ways to make them look even better but if they do not at this stage have not even got this down I would be disappointed.
@carlos82 Ah it seems I mis-read your comment. So I apologise for that.
@S1ayeR74 no worries
Most games don't need 60fps... smooth and stable is the most important thing. As for 4K... also largely irrelevant. I'm still debating whether I actually want to bother getting a new TV for PS5 or stick with what I've got. I actually think that for something like the original Horizon, it looks best on the PS4 Pro when supersampled down to 1080p.
Most people here seem to agree that 60fps should be the priority for all games, 60fps would actually make it a true giant leap.
@JJ2 Yeah I actually don't think native 4K is worth it. These reconstruction techniques are really good, and it's almost impossible to tell any difference.
@R1spam Also agree on HDR. It's more important than resolution.
Personally - in the PC gaming space, 1440p and 120 fps has been the sweetspot for me between resolution/fps/cost. FPS far outweigh resolution for me (except when you're working, d'uh). You know what matters even more: fun games. So I truly hope that all that new tech (SSD for example) enable the devs for new concepts, new games like Minecraft, Diablo, DotA and "that game that came before Fortnite, doing the same thing" - basically spawning more or less their own new genres. I'm not so easily wowed by "good" games with perfect graphics, I prefer "perfect games" with "ok graphics" any day!
@Wavey84 This. While I personally prefer 120 fps (but it's a luxury, truly) a ROCK SOLID 60 fps with 1440p resolution is my personal goldstandard. Wish all gaming was adhering to it.
@Wavey84
I agree that GOW is buttery smooth in 1080p/60 but I don't agree it looks better. Checked it twice and I felt the downgrade in visuals is not worth it for 60fps. I fear many companies will go for graphics showcases, especially early on, to sell their games on PS5. I agree with others that 1440p/60 would be the sweetspot and I agree with Sammy that HDR is actually more of a gamechanger than 4K (though in an article I've read recently HDR is about to lose to Dolby Vision, which has me worried).
@Wavey84
I hear ya. I came back to PS4 after a short spell with PC gaming. I grew to dislike the state of it so quickly, what with all the storefronts, drivers, errors etc. Not to mention the hassle of connecting a PC to a TV set (and don't get me started on playing on a 15 or 17 inch laptop screen). PS4/5 all the way, hopefully in at least 1440p/60 then
I would've preferred something like 1800p 60FPS on the PS5, thinking I'll wait for a future "Pro" model. Been gaming at 1440p 120FPS and 4K 60FPS since I got my 4K 120FPS TV, the PS5 would feel like a bit of a step down.
Same thing happened with the PS4, my $600 2011 PC was able to do 1080p 60FPS across the vast majority of titles I threw at it until around 2015, while the PS4 was generally stuck at 1080p 30FPS.
As long as we're above 1080p, I just want my frames, dawg. 30FPS isn't cutting it anymore. Once you've gamed extensively on a 240Hz monitor, going back to sub-120FPS gaming feels bad.
@Wavey84 100% agreed, dude. I "downgraded" back to 1080p to game at 240FPS, and it's so much smoother that jaggies are harder to notice and it looks so much more lifelike than 4K games at 60FPS. I like that the Xbox Series X seems focused on 4K60 and 120FPS, enough to make me "jump ship" for the start of this gen.
Ratchet & Clank on PS5 does have much more impressive ray-tracing than any RTX game I've seen so far, though, even though it's only 30FPS. I hope we see tons of 60FPS PS5 games that use dynamic resolution while delivering the same graphics, frames over resolution all day every day.
@Wavey84 Yeah I agree with you, but you know, you can can wow people with 4K resolution in screenshots, not so much with framerates... but as you said, we should move forward and use videos instead of images to convey an impression of a game - but that point is moot also, since most consumer devices can't display beyond 60 fps.
Then on the other hand, I just go outdoors, shoot my bows and enjoy life in whatever-K-and-FPS-my-eyes-deliver-to-my-brain!
@Facelord I'm really not so much on the board with raytracing so far, considering what hit it takes on performance, the benefits - to my aging eyes - seem neglible. In the heat of battle - and most games are fast paced these days - I don't think you would notice raytracing much. Then again, in a game like Elder Scrolls for example, I guess it would look stunning, but there is no way they can deliver 4K, 60FPS AND raytracing and hdr - at least not at the beginning of this generation.
@Scollurio It would seem that the performance hit is borderline negligible on the new consoles, I think AMD's RT solution is stellar. I feel like Sony should've gone with a GPU solution more similar to Microsoft's, 4K 30FPS just isn't next-gen.
Hopefully developers compensate for the PS5's weaker GPU with dynamic resolution modes; on my PC and 4K 120Hz TV, 1440p 120FPS with Nvidia Image Sharpening upscaling to 4K looks great and feels incredibly fluid, a truly "next-gen" experience for me. Current plan is to upgrade my GPU soon, get a launch XSX and snag a PS5 Pro or a PS5 Slim when that's $300. My PS3 still gets the most love of my PS systems.
I'd rather have 2k at 60fps or 4k checkerboard at 60fps instead of any 30fps game. Screw 4k if it means playing in choppy, sickening 30fps
@Wavey84 Again, all you say is true. Personally I've changed a lot since I started videogames on HD consoles with the Xbox360 back in the day (Oh that sweet sweet Need for Speed Most Wanted, lol). I just don't get wowed by graphics anymore. Like. At all. I get wowed by concepts, like "wow I can enter that building" or "what really, 25 billion stars that can be travelled to? Wow" or "So the environment is fully destructible? Cool!" - all of what I just described would wow me in 1080p, 1440p and probably in 4K too, but only, if it RUNS smoothly. That's why I kind of have a thing for pixel-style-games on my switch. They run all in sweet 60 fps, sure they may look like "garbage" to most, but I really don't care if the concept is fun!
Take something like Mario Kart for example and let's assume it's a game you enjoy. Would you enjoy it more if the resolution was x2 but otherwise the same game? Probably not, you'd probably take more screenshots here and there, marvel over them for a few minutes, and that's that. But imagine you HAD to play it in lower FPS. Terrible. Still same game, but terrible. Now imagine, the same game, in 120 FPS. WOW.
AND NOW imagine a completely new racing experience in Mario Kart, with new concepts, a track builder, track sharing, etc... wouldn't ALL of that be more "wow" than an up in resolution?
And this is exactly my problem with the next console generation. I loved BLOODBORNE but it looked sub par and didn't run great. I'd love to have it run in smooth 60fps or even more. If there were a PC version of it, you could easily have it just by throwing enough hardware at it, but on a console, you're "trapped" by whatever concept of "next gen" the devs follow.
Sorry for long post.
I already saw that we agree on this matter long ago, just couldn't hold my horses!
Everyone's talking about how they prefer 60fps and think the idea of 4k gaming is dumb if the ps5 can't go to at least the 60.... Sony is talking about 8k, I think once devs push the limits 4k60 will be way below the norm.
@Scollurio I'm with you, imagination is way more valuable than pixel density. Same goes for smoothness.
Digital Foundry are a bunch of fakes though, they have based their entire analysis on a 1080P 30FPS stream.. you can’t tell anything from that, it’s just made up rubbish by Digital Foundry trying to stay relevant and get clicks and nothing more.
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