Here's a recap. Last year, it was discovered that Sony had filed a patent in Brazil for a cartridge device of some sort. It resembles old-school game cartridges, or those you plug into your PS Vita, for instance, but its real purpose remained unclear. In November 2019, tech site LetsGoDigital created 3D renders of said device. The website deduced that the cartridge could be extra SSD storage for use with PlayStation 5.
LetsGoDigital did some more digging, and it turns out this same cartridge was patented in Sony's homeland of Japan much earlier. From these new documents, the tech site has pulled new images and quotes which corroborate its theory on the device. It's now sounding more likely that you'll be able to upgrade your PS5's SSD storage with these modular carts. Here's the quote on the subject from SIE Japan:
This is a recording medium which can record various data, such as a character, an image, an animation, a sound and a program. By loading the opening provided by the game console with the tip end part by which a variety of pins of this cartridge were provided, the various data recorded on this cartridge can be read.
In other words, these cartridges are built for data storage. It seems much more likely that you'll be able to plug one of these into your PS5 in order to expand the system's total storage capacity, which sounds much easier than replacing the built-in SSD altogether. As LetsGoDigital points out, the advantage of this for Sony, if true, will be that it can reduce the cost of the PS5 itself with a smaller amount of system storage. Players can then use these modular storage expansions as and when required.
Much more recently, Microsoft unveiled the full tech specs for Xbox Series X, and among the technobabble was the reveal of something that looks very similar to this Sony patent. In Digital Foundry's full report, it talks about a custom NVMe drive, which functions just as described above -- it's extra SSD storage for the new Xbox. John Linneman, who wrote the aforementioned report, reckons this technology will be echoed on PS5:
To us, this sounds like the real deal, but we obviously won't know for certain until Sony speaks up. It would be a smart way to keep manufacturing costs to a minimum as the company aims for a comfortable initial cost, but we're just going to have to sit tight on this for the time being. With Microsoft spilling the beans, we hope Sony will respond soon.
What do you think about all this? Are these cartridges going to help expand PS5's storage? Tell us your thoughts in the comments below.
[source nl.letsgodigital.org, via nl.letsgodigital.org, nl.letsgodigital.org, eurogamer.net, twitter.com]
Comments 85
I don't have problem with it as long as the price is fair.
FYI, 1TB samsung 860 evo sdd cost about $174 and 2TB cost about $383 in my country, I hope ssd cost less in holidays 2020.
@BarefootBowser Yeah, sony can't make another psvita memory card price mistake, it will be fatal for ps5 success, the price have to be competitive with good pc ssd.
Totally plausible and a good idea.
As everyone has already noted - if these things turn out to be legit, they cannot be priced significantly higher than equivalent solid state memory.
Makes sense as aren't these SSD's meant to have some proprietary tech in them which may rule out switching in off the shelf replacements. I get what people are doing with the Vita comparisons but this is a completely different scenario, as on Vita they were required and often needing multiple of them, where as on PS5 it'd be an optional upgrade
I just want support for external USB storage device from day one!
@carlos82
It'll be the form factor/connection that'll be proprietary. As with the Vita cards (which were micro SDs in all but shape).
The comparison is valid though. If the idea is to reduce cost by supplying a smaller SSD in the box - and given the goal of data streaming speed combined with bloating game install sizes, it's a fair assumption that the included SSD will fill up very quickly. Making a supplemental drive pretty much a necessity.
This tech in theory is a great idea - but Sony have to get the pricing viable for the consumer
Ugh proprietary storage. Thought they’d learned their lesson with the Vita.
I have no problem with proprietary hardware but it depends on how tiny or otherwise the main PS5 drive is and how much these expansion drives cost.
The cost was the thing that nailed down the coffin lid on the Vita.
isn't there supposed to be some proprietary tech in the SSD that makes it faster than the standard off-the-shelf drives? which if true, is maybe why they want a simple upgradeable option, as it's possible games might run into buffering problems if trying to read from standard drives or external drives.
i can see the issue though with the Base model drive getting full very quickly, even on PS4 plenty of games are 50-100gb, and some well beyond that. modern warfare is 125gb and it's still got 10 months of content to come.. 3 games like that and a 500gb drive is full.
Costly proprietary storage media is only a problem if the system will only accept these cartridges. But it's unlikely they'll take such a significant step backwards and disallow external USB storage devices. If you want to pay for the elegant solution offered by Sony, these cartridges exist... if not, just go with the USB drive you already have.
However, if they cut USB support to push these, then we got a potential problem.
I guess we don't really know how the storage media interfaces with the rest of the hardware, though. We know PS5 is gunna load super fast - does that render a USB connection obsolete?
Ooh proprietary storage cards... These always go down a treat. Don't they? Vita?
@leucocyte You might have answered my question there, then. Perhaps with standard USB SSD drives you don't benefit from the super fast loading speeds, if it even supports them at all.
@KALofKRYPTON I meant the SSD inside the PS5 may have proprietary tech, mark Cerny mentioned something about just sticking a super fast SSD in a PS4 Pro only speeds it up so much. As such they were looking at I/O operations within the SSD to speed things up considerably which may make these a necessity for upgrading. As I said with Vita, everyone who bought one had to buy their memory cards and they had no genuine reason to exist in the first place. If the PS5 install speeds are as fast as they claim it may not even be that big of a deal swapping installed games in and out if needed. I do agree that they need to be of a relative price point though
Nope! I just want a 8Tb external that I can buy for $149.00
@kyleforrester87 dont hold me to it but I'm sure I heard that usb3.0 would be too slow. I have no proof to back this tho.
@BarefootBowser care is very much needed ,as I said above I think there is a genuine technical necessity behind these. Maybe it does support other hard drives for backwards compatibility
@carlos82 Ah. Could be that.
@Kidfunkadelic83 @BarefootBowser I guess at the end of the day if we want the latest tech, we have to pay for it then, and this is one way to give people an affordable introduction with the option to upgrade if they want more space.
I would hope that they don't go crazy on the pricing. I guess given the numbers they hope to sell, they can produce enough to potentially keep costs down and make their money elsewhere. With Vita, I imagine they really weren't selling a lot of the cards which might have actually kept the prices on the high side.
I guess, ultimately, it makes sense for them to consider this now at the start of the gen so people have options 2-3 years in.
Wait and see, I suppose!
@carlos82 I don't see any reason for a technical necessity. You use any HDD or SSD in any PC. The loading time is the only effect. I will wait 10-15 seconds longer to save $100's in cost of expanding a SSD.
Welcome to the Vita memory fiasco part 2
People keep bringing up psvita while ignoring the circumstances and the huge difference that they make:
1. With psvita most games didn't work unless you bought a memory card. With ps5 there will already be an internal hard drive/ssd.
2. The ps5 will be a sequel to ps4, one of the best selling consoles of all time. With some of the biggest franchises there are. Psvita could not compete with that. It got games from small studios and new IPs, with a few exceptions. People are willing to pay enormous amounts of money if they think that the product deserves it. E.g. Apple products.
The psvita was "dead" before it even arrived. Ps5 is not.
It seems as some people are incapable of understanding nuance.
@JohnKarnes that's because games today are built to accommodate them. By all accounts the PS5's has higher bandwidth than any retail SSD today. More than just the initial loading times are going tied to the onboard SSD, they're talking about eliminating load times altogether as its fast enough to stream it in faster than you can move around. A slower SSD or indeed an old HDD will create plenty of bugs, possibly even game breaking as assets and background data can't be streamed in fast enough. You've only got to look at Jedi Fallen Order's issues with exactly this and that is designed for those old hard drives
Exciting times 🙂
I am not sure how will the SSD components work inside those plastic casing without proper cooling.
From cartridges, to compact discs, to hard drives, to solid state drives, to cartridges.
The circle is complete.
These are going to be so expensive. Brace yourself.
Will wait for the official announcement before getting to het up or comparing to the PS Vita. To be honest, loading times have become more of a pain to me as my gaming time decreases and I probably would pay to not have them. My Switch gets more action, even on the TV sometimes because if a game is already loaded I can just start it up. Booting up AC: Odyssey would take aaaages.
Remember the prices of the Vita cards?
I bet these will cost a buttload.
This sounds like it could become really annoying really quickly. Not enough to keep me from purchasing a PS5, but Potentially aggravating nevertheless.
It will mitigate this for me if PS Plus still provides access to cloud saves next gen. If it does, I will simply do what I do now: keep my data in the cloud while only keeping a couple games on the console at a time. I don’t mind reinstalling a game and the save data if I want to play it again. But we don’t know for sure how PS Plus will work next gen........
@kyleforrester87 but if we have super fast loading and no load screens how on earth are will gonna know to push x to jump??
@ellsworth004 and when are we going to sip our tea?
"Proprietary" and "Sony" are two words that together did not match at all with "cheap", let's see what happened but I am concerned.
I hope that there will be different ps5 models to choose from so everyone could make his math and choose what is more viable...
@get2sammyb I fear the same
@leucocyte good news is ps5 games have the option of installing part of the game you want instead of having to install it all, will save space and can store alot more games.
@BarefootBowser @Neolit @Nickolaidas
You guys forgot punch cards. I used these in my COBOL class in HS.
My first computer, who's name is long buried, my uncle bought it for me in HS, ran on regular cassette tape.
@get2sammyb "These are going to be so expensive."
Look on the bright side, the more expensive they are, probably the more comments there will be.
Do we have any idea how big these things are yet? Are they SD card size or N64 cart size?
The price is important, but not as important as how much storage is in the PS5. If it's the 12GB PS3 Super Slim, ie you NEED another drive for anything other than streaming, we have a problem. Even 500GB would probably only hold three 4k games.
I still think they could work some magic w/ 500GB SSD and 1.5TB HDD, advertise it as 2TB storage, and save a few $. StoreMI, FuzeDrive, Optain, whatever.
Also, possibly good news, Sony does make it's own SSD drives, so they wont' have to pay somebody else for them - see PS3 bluray drive fiasco. Both these articles are from about a month before they announced the PS5 would be using SSD, they are strictly about Sony's SSD drives. So expensive, but maybe not too expensive?
https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/05/01/sony-announce-a-new-line-of-ssd-drives/
https://www.sony.com/en_us/SCA/company-news/press-releases/sony-electronics/2019/sony-introduces-new-ultra-tough--high-speed-external-ssd-drives.html
@Neolit Yeah, I took FORTRAN that year as well, but I didn't want to make it sound like I was just name dropping. Though to be honest I think I dropped both. Or maybe just stopped going to both. It was my senior and I already had a scholarship to college and enough credits to graduate so I basically spent senior year in the pizzeria down the block playing Phoenix like a real life "Dazed and Confused" movie being my best Gen-X self. (So sick of people OK boomer-ing me on twitter )
As for the PC, I honestly don't know. It was a big black keyboard of a box w/ a cassette player built in on the right side and it hooked up to the TV. It's buried somewhere in the basement w/ about 6 cassettes. All right, I'll go look, but only b/c I like you. (And OK now I'm a bit curious myself.)
Hopefully Sony learned their lessons from the Vita. For those not familiar with the Vita memory card pricing from 2011, the card was essentially a SD memory card that was made so that only Sony’s version would work with the Vita. Oh, and it was priced at around twice what a typical SD card would cost. Launch prices:
4GB - $29.99
8GB - $44.99
16GB - $69.99
32GB - $119.99
Insanity.
@Neolit arrgh, looked for it, couldn't find it. Hope I didn't' trash it, but I never trash anything, I'm a hoarder so, it's probably in the crawl space w/ the Compaq. Which I won't be getting too today sadly.
Wasn't the Amstrand b/c it didn't have colorful keys, also my uncle got it for my during my senior year of HS and I graduated in June of '83. I have looked for it online in the past but I think it was just a throwaway model from the back of a magazine. Whatever science magazine was big in the early 80's, Popular Science maybe? I have trashed all of those long ago.
It did look a lot like the ZX Spectrum 2 at the bottom of the list on this page but that didn't come out until 86. The earlier Spectrum didn't have the cassette player.
https://www.7dayshop.com/blog/8-computers-from-the-80s/
I honestly think it was a no name brand hobbyist thing. Who knows, maybe if I can find it it's worth something as maybe 1 of only 1,000 sold. I know it doesn't work though, the cassette player broke decades ago, but who knows, maybe that can be fixed. All of the cassettes probably disintegrated by now though.
Now I'm seriously annoyed and sad I may have trashed it since it was broke.
@wiiware 4 TB ssd is 481,36 dollar here
Given the cost of SSDs It was never going to be possible to include enough storage for everyone. A proprietary memory card might not be my favourite way to expand it but it’s certainly better than nothing.
Now that I think about it, maybe sony should make ps5 compatible with some of the high-end ssd that's available on the market for ps5 external storage solutions, but ps5 will benchmark it first to test if the ssd is good enough for playing games, so people can choose whether to use sony solutions or buy the high-end ssd themselves.
@Neolit Yeah, I know about casettes (first home computer was a ZX Spectrum 48K), but I was talking about consoles, mostly.
@Neolit Getting closer I think. I've looked all over for it, can't find it. Kinda annoyed thinking I may have thrown it out. ugh
This sounds horrible, proprietary is another word for I'm going to charge you premium for something that does the same thing and you can get on Ebay for dirt cheap.
If they make it so that this is the only way you can upgrade the storage then the system will have a PS3 start or worse.
Hmmm i duunnoooo. Id rather the system cost a bit more and come with a crap tonne of built in memory, lets say 5TB. I mean if it releases with low mem then its just forcing us to upgrade right off the bat basically.
Like I said last time, 64gb PS5 coming up!
@lacerz it really was insanity and what was more insane they never changed their stance on it did they?
The price of this could make or ruin the PS5
@nessisonett it's obvious they haven't learned anything 😕 propriety storage is expensive they should leave the option for us to buy whatever ssd we want and finder cheaper options instead of this locked down storage.
the only cheaper solution would be external storage, lets hope that is still a option when the ps5 launches.
@Gmork___ it's like those useless 12gb super slim ps3s that sony released, not only did you have to buy a adaptor to add storage but you had to buy a bigger hard drive aswell which complement the cost of buying it in the first place.
@JohnKarnes unless they lock it out so you buy their expensive storage instead...
My problem here is I still remember how much vita memory cards cost. No way in hell were getting terrabytes of modular ssd storage in a propriety form in any kind of affordable manner
I would like to know if you can easily transfer data from said SSD to a new one if you decide to upgrade. If not, better invest to buy the biggest PS5 SSD available at launch.
Expanding system ram to allow more assets to load into memory can also help with the pop in effect of on they fly screen loading times. Wow now I wonder is Sony will lower total RAM or keep it a 8Gb without expanding it to cover some of the higher cost of the SSD. Its a balance between total Ram and loading into available Ram for speed.
Most people don't even know a external HDD is 20-33% faster in loading time because of higher platter spin rates on 3 1/2 external HDD's.
This means Sony can now reduce the cost of PS5 at retail and sell at an comfortable cost for the Players. Then get the Players to buy these dular storage expansions later, and of course these proprietary cartridges will cost a bomb. Sony will not sell at loss, and the Players will pay them their initial asking price that they could not set at retail because it would not sell at $700. This is a very smart business move, to trick people that dont know better and get people that cant afford it to buy now. But they dont fool me with their snake oil sales man tactics, i have been following this gaming industry for over 10 years now.
@BarefootBowser I agree with you, but let's see how necessary that will be. I think for the vast majority of gamers, an extra ssd won't be needed.
Oh GOD how much will they cost :-/ Probably Thousands I bet knowing SONY
think I will just wait for Sony to say what's what instead of guys on twitter & patents some of which never see the light of day.
@Carl-G I doubt they can get away with more than about £90 a terabyte.
@KALofKRYPTON their price should even be lower than standard SSDs.... what's the point of SSD which is only usable in PS5 console??? I wont be able to reuse it later in my other hardware... Or make it so we could plug extended SSD as well... I rather pay more for normal SSD than buy SSD at the same possible price which is only usable on PS5... And in worst case scenario even pricier than normal SSD's...
Wow, I was wondering how PS got 78 comments in 15 minutes.
But yeah, I thought that too when I read the specs this morning about the external SSD.
Expandable Storage 1 TB Expansion Card[4]
[4] Expandable storage matches internal storage performance.
Here's a photo you don't have to squint to see, though it does make them look the size of PS1, not a bluetooth dongle.
Whilst I agree noone wants to see a Vita memory card repeat,as has also been pointed out there's two things so far that'd be more in ps5 owner's favour...As already pointed out,if this is similar to the idea touted by XBSX,then Sony wouldn't want to be selling a more expensive expansion option. Also, given Sony wants to sell in ps4 quantities & convert the userbase over faster than before it'll mean larger production runs too. Time will tell,but something to keep in mind.
How much will these will cost? That's right, you guessed it... $599.99
I wonder if you have to blow on them before inserting.
Getting memory card vibes from this of the days of PS1/2. As long as the price is fair I'm cool with going back to memory cards.
@Luna-Harmony
You've just reminded me of the days when it would take my lungs to go breathless, sometimes multiple times just for a game to read on GameBoy and SNES ect.
Man, those were the days.
I never get extra storage. Just delete the game after I am done. Same thing I do on my PC and Switch
Sega genesis is smiling on you.haha.cool.word up son
@Quintumply Wait, the article is new, but the comments are old? Is it rewritten?
As it's a customized SSD in the PS5 it was obviously from the get go Sony would sell their own SSD's
This is awesome.
@Octane It's an article from last year that's been updated in light of the new information
How about an option to stick with regular HDD if you aren't bothered about saving 10 seconds of loading time?
This will likely be £150-200 per TB, just saying.
This is cool, going back to PS1/2 style memory cards! Fully expecting them to be on the expensive side however I think it's a neat solution.
I really hope they’re exactly the same slot so you can plug in an Xbox branded card or a PlayStation branded card or a third-party card. Rather than having to worry about proprietarily cards.
@Agramonte We’ve already reached the point with switch that some games cannot be downloaded without expanding its storage even if you have no other games installed. I suspect we’re not that many years off the first 250 GB game for PS4 that can’t be downloaded or updated without a larger hard drive.
@Paranoimia The Digital foundry video said that the Xbox series X will still support old USB drives and you will be able to play media and backwards compatibility games off them. You’ll still be able to put next generation games on such drive but you won’t be able to play them unless they’re installed on an SSD either internal or proprietary.
@Ryall Yeah, sorry, I mean for PS5. I've no interest in Xbox as I have a decent PC.
@notdead if your just playing regular PS4 games (or possibly the older titles) you can use a regular hdd expandable storage or thumb drive but the ps5 games will most likely be only ssd because the way their being developed for as little to no loading times. They talked about the ps5 games running in tandem with the sad using the fast loading to render much faster and all that so if you only use a hdd or thumb drive for a ps5 game it will probably say something about using the sad storage. Maybe we'll have the old sounds of ps2 when you put in the wrong disk.
@Ryall Microsoft worked with Seagate to create there expandable storage so it's only for Xbox. The internal ssd for both will be made onto the motherboard, we won't be able to change it so that's why the memory cards are making a comeback but they will be nothing like the old ones except they hold data games and probably music and movies. At least load times will be near non existent if any. And being able to jump from one game to another and then back without loosing your spot without loading and even if you turn off your console even after a week.this is good
@JohnKarnes Whats the speed on these? And i think its it even SSD with these prices.
@Bailey8two But what happens when the console is done are the consoles obsolete then? With no way too upgrade them anymore?
Of course it does. Its hard to believe but Sony kickstarted the next gen talk and announced the SSD thing over 11 months ago now while showing it running on a current gen game........... something Microsoft did in the last 2 days lol.
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