Microsoft’s getting stomped globally by the PlayStation 4, but it believes that “hardcore gamers” gravitate towards the Xbox One ahead of Sony’s system. Aaron Greenberg, one of the marketing bigwigs at the Redmond firm, told IGN Italia at Gamescom 2018 that he believes the most engaged players prefer to game in green.
“I notice the same and identical thing on my friends list and the data we have available suggests exactly that. Hardcore players, those who prefer the best gaming experience, have always been on our side, from the first Xbox to Xbox 360 and now with the Xbox One X,” he said. “Looking at the numbers and results of the competition, we have a smaller installed base, but the attach rate and sales data for many games are much higher on Xbox.”
As far as we understand it, Greenberg’s not lying that the attach rate of some titles favour the Xbox One, but the law of averages means that if you’ve got a larger install base, you’re always going to bring the overall attach rate down. The more relevant statistic relates to where the majority of games sell best, and we all know that’s on the PS4.
Greenberg continued that Xbox maintains such a strong fanbase by constantly connecting with its fans: “We are at Gamescom especially for our users and the Xbox Fan Fest and we do similar activities all over the world,” he added. “Along with Phil Spencer we are always very attentive to this aspect, it is really important to spend time with our fans and we will continue to do so, it is part of our way of being.”
It’s an interesting point because it speaks to an article we published recently about PlayStation becoming closed off from its community. There’s no doubt that Microsoft, at the present moment, is much more openly engaging with fans and the media; the problem is that it often feels like it’s talking purely to maintain a semblance of relevance.
[source it.ign.com, via wccftech.com]
Comments 77
And why not make wild claims, and release no supporting data of sales. You can say anything at the bottom nobody cares
*Reads article..........................
Yeah i really miss Sony PR spouting this sort of nonsense. I don't think you're missing much, Sammy.
Oh no, I'm not hardcore enough. How will I ever live down this shame? I'll never be able to look my mother in the eye again.
They’d have to be more hardcore to support a system notorious for having NO GAMES! Hardcore...lmao.
Trouble is, Microsoft are really trying but clearly don’t quite know what their customers want. That’s clear from the XBox One reveal. PlayStation on the other hand are so confident they have gone quiet. Both could improve in different areas. Both consoles are good in there own way. In terms of hardcore gamers. I highly doubt Microsoft’s have Sony’s data so I don’t know exactly what they have to compare there own data too. This is just a marketing person giving there brand some press by making loud statements. Nothing more.
You think it was hardcore? BUT IT WAS ME, DIO!
i mean, they just toxic
the only hardcore xbox gamers i know of are those youtubers who only make lets plays because they are being sponsored or payed by microsoft. they are fan because of the money,not out of hart. (and those that are,are people like KSI and logan paul,hardly a crowd you want)
plus how can you even say that the best gaming experience is with xbox when that system has less exclusives,and those that they have are just average at best (numbers can back that up).
so exclusive wise it is not the best experience,graphics may be but again i rather have the better games then the best graphics.
if it truly was the best expierence then xbox would sell better. it doesn't because ps4 offers better value,so again how can xbox have the best gaming expierience?
tbh this guy sounds like he would be a great advocate for the "pc master race". making bold claims about why they are so much better but with nothing to back it up.
O come on. How childish. Why are microsoft execs making statements like this. Thats the kind of stuff id expect from fanboys and trolls. Not highly paid execs. It comes across as desperate to me. Id say the same if anyone from Sony or nintendo did the same.
Yeah, lol .. the logic. “The attach rate and sales data for many games are much higher on Xbox ...” Well, of course it is. The multi-platform stuff is all Xbox gamers have to choose from. Where PS gamers share gaming time away from COD, FIFA and Madden with the likes of GoW, HZD, Spider-Man, TLoU, Uncharted, Bloodborne, Persona.... etc, etc.
When there is no quality alternatives, of course Xbox gamer will gravitate to the “many games” he is alluding to. 🙄
@kyleforrester87 Touche.
Guess I'm not hardcore enough for playing games like Gravity Rush and Yakuza.
Of course that people keep playing the same game for longer, we have tons of games to play (almost monthly honestly) and we can jump around between games so we don't even have time to finish them sometimes...
They have so little exclusives that you have to stick to the game you have available for a loooooong time
So... According to Microsoft, gamers didn't exist prior to the Xbox in 2001?
The only true hardcore gamers are mobile gamers, specifically those playing Snake on the original Nokia 3310.
Meh, PR guys for Microsoft have to bring up Sony, don't they? Even though he's not "directly" calling them out by name, you know what he's implying it.
Says attach rate is higher, then proceeds to not provide sales data. I find it hard to belive.
This gave me a laugh, all the xbox owners i know only have 2 games, fortnite and Fifa!
Microsoft doesn't know what they're talking about. I drank a swimming pool of mountain dew and a... mountain of doritos when playing PS4 yesterday. If that doesn't disprove their claim, then I don't know what does.
More hardcore you say....hmmm?🧐
*Goes back to counting down the minutes before picking up the Yakuza Kiwami 2 pre-order
Dude's simply massaging the ego of Xbox fanboys. It's what these PR types do in't it?
@Kidfried while that is most likely true,i do think that the xbox PR team needs to convince new customers to buy an xbox instead of creating a brand loyalty with the current customers when those loyal people to xbox are just not with enough "members" for that to mean something for xbox.
they are struggling so they need to lure more people to them instead of pleasing the current fanbase they have by being smug and making claims without proof.
Not enough Doritos and mountain dew for the COD (that now sides with Playstation for DLC...) to be hardcore enough on the Sony side.
Wow, C'mon man, the only reason I hear people bought an Xbox One is to carry over from the 360 or the fact that people on their friends list own Xbox Ones. Nobody says games, nobody. Bring something good to the table and we'll talk. (Really, I'd like to see them bring something good. It would be healthy for competition and help give me good reason to be able to play Halo.)
They're right. I've never seen so many people collectively suck off Microsoft despite how many Ls they take. It's all good tho.
Ofcourse that’s the case. Let’s say if 25 million of the 30 million xbone users are hardcore gamers and 60 million of the 80 million ps4 users are hardcore gamers than yeah in comparison xbox users are more hardcore.
But let’s not forgot that xbox one sold 30 million consoles (according to the latest update, it hasn’t been updated in 3 years but that should be a bad sign, not a good omen) and ps4 sold over 80 million.
Haha, sure, whatever you say Greenberg.
“Exclusives are not important”
“Single-player games are not important”
“Sales are not important”
Nothing is important on the Xbone’s side.
With Playstation you have more choice is that what he means?😜
@PS_Nation
cross play is but only if xbox is losing the "battle".
also kinda funny how phil was so sure of exclusives not being a important factor while not even a year later at e3 they have been sure to make people know that the games they have shown would have timed exclusivity.
all that those xbox people say is either hypocritical or just assumptions with no real proof that they then pass off as fact.
It's obvious, near pointless waffle.
I reckon Vita probably has "higher attach rates". 🤔
@NintendoFan4Lyf You just called 4 games and multiplatform ok. Recore is the one i want to play the rest not. If i can make it on my PS4 vanilla you know i probably dont care much for the multiplatform games. Yeah for me its a waste of money the X. I rather get 8 games or more.
I don't wanna diss this guy or anything but in my experience Xbox users are way less hardcore. You'll find a lot of sports/racing /fps fans vs the extremely hardcore niches (visual novel/SJRPG/indie) you'll get among the PS crowd. Of course there are hardcore gamers on Xbox as well though, I don't doubt it.
Fine by me, they're more hardcore, fantastic, well done. If that makes them happy then all power to them.
Now bring on Spiderman next week.
So if a gamer plays for more hours than another player it's called hardcore? Perhaps smaller game library to choose from forces you to spend more time on a few games, thus you're hardcore. If I eat macdonalds everyday (cos lack of choice or unwilling to try out new foods) I'd be call hardcore but that doesn't make me a better foodie! I'd rather play and experience loadsa games from all types of genres across all types of consoles than be pidgeon-holed into a narrow minded hardcore gamer. Yeuch!
I would wonder if the FPS/Sports game market is stronger on team green.
All in all, until Microsoft cares about the games, I don't care about their Xbox division.
Yay, console wars. -_-
I mean no offense to Sammy by saying this, but this PR is so weak it shouldn't even be dignified with an article.
Well, Xbox IS mostly preferred to play competitive games like Fifa, CoD and Forza of course.
What's the point of creating artificial divisions between gamers again? Some people game more and prefer more complex/harder games, other people prefer to chill and play casual games occasionally. So what?
I think psvita is way more hardcore, sony already abandoned it but there's still game for it next year, named "hardcore"
What Greenberg is saying is that whilst the Xbox has a lower install base and as such, doesn'r get the game sales as PS4 versions, the overall percentage of Xbox gamers buying games is higher. For example, If a game sells to 1 in 10 PS4 owners, meaning around 8m in sales, the game is selling maybe to 1 in 8 - in other words, a higher percentage of Xbox owners own that game compared to the percentage of PS owners. Its also statistically proven that Xbox owners buy more games a yea on average.
Whether that matters or not, is up to individual interpretation. I doubt the Publishers care that much as its all about overall sales of games - not which console had the 'higher' percentage of interest - especially if the lower percentage of interest equated to more overall sales.
Going back to the example of 1 in 10 I used above, a multi-platform game would sell around 8m on PS4 and around 4.5m based on 35m consoles on Xbox so the overall sales are higher on PS4 but as a percentage, more Xbox owners bought the game. Only 10% of PS4 owners bought it compared to 12.5% of Xbox owners - that's what Greenberg is saying.
Like I said, I doubt publishers care too much as its overall sales that are important and even if less PS4 owners (as a percentage) don't buy, its still equates to a larger percentage of the overall sales in general.
Its subjective to to perception. im not as hardcore cos in concentrating on trying to get a career and getting fit at the gym. plus working 2 jobs
@Kidfried That's interesting. Makes sense! I imagine Microsoft are keen to maintain the loyalty of their most hardcore users by making them feel special and part of a community.
haha nice try
@BAMozzy The problem with the statement is that buying a higher percentage of a multiplaform game does not constitute being a more “hardcore” audience. I would argue that overall software sales would be a better descriptor of who’s more “hardcore.” (Not that it matters, mind you. It’s all semantics in the end and I don’t really care if MS wants to call their fans more “hardcore.” It’s just PR shots being fired across enemy lines)
Y'know, statements like these might be why Sony doesn't want to work with you.
I'm hardcore so much that I want to play the same games each time that is Halo, Gears, Forza and Crackdown no wait that ain't coming out till well forever at this rate
Xbox can have their "hardcore user base"...PS4 is where the games are at, so many great PS4 exclusives !
@Th3solution I wasn't suggesting anything by my post, just explaing the 'statement'. As for 'hardcore', that is likely to mean something different to different people. As I said, statistically, an average Xbox gamer buys more games and games for longer. In terms of percentages, an Xbox gamer is more likely to own a game than a PS4 gamer - 1 in 10 for example compared to 1 in 8 (numbers for illustrative purposes).
That maybe because the Xbox is significantly further behind in sales and that a lot more 'casual' (for want of a better word) bought PS4's and therefore bring the averages down. These statements are based purely on 'averages'. There will be PS4 owners that buy just as many games, game just as long as the highest on Xbox too but maybe because there are 'more' PS4 owners who perhaps are below the 'average' in terms of purchasing numbers, hours played etc, it brings down the 'average' stats on PS4 compared to the average stats on Xbox.
As PS4 has a much larger install base, it stands to reason that they would also have a 'higher' number of gamers who are above the averages, maybe classed as 'hardcore'. Again to use the 1 in 10 thing, if 1 in 10 are classified as 'Hardcore' on PS4 - or the top 10%, that equates to ~8m gamers, on Xbox, if 12.5% are classified as Hardcore, based on the 'same' criteria, that's still only ~4.5m despite being a 'higher' percentage of gamers. It still means PS4 has more 'Hardcore' gamers overall.
The point of my post was to explain how these stats are derived and based purely on 'statistics'. Whilst you maybe more likely to meet a 'Hardcore' Xbox owner amongst ALL xbox owners compared to say 'Hardcore' PS4 owners amongst ALL PS4 owners, you are still much more likely to meet a PS4 owner amongst console gamers - around ~2/3rds of console gamers game on PS4 so 2 in every 3 console gamers own a PS4 effectively.
@BAMozzy The underdog platform will always have a higher percentage of dedicated gamers. XB fans were dedicated enough to stick with the platform out of brand loyalty even when it was inferior to PS4 at start of gen. You don't get that kind of loyalty unless you use the product enough.
Meanwhile PS4 had those same loyal fans, but also gets a lot more casuals that just saw PS4 was decidedly the best console to get. Those with no preference will take the popular choice, watering down some of the statistics.
I bet Wii U fans were as hard core as they come.
that is a pile of ...💩
I do like softcore...
@MightyDemon82 Lol you from Australia? Because that's exactly what my Xbox friends play only: Fifa and Fortnite, and only during party nights
@GarySan unfortunately not, Scotland is where I call home. Did spend a year in Perth Australia many years ago and had a blast though. All my friends/workmates only really play those 2 games, i'm the weird one for loving Japanese games and anything not seen as normal to them.
When you say hardcore, do they mean they do things my missus won't?
So Microsoft’s definition of hardcore relates to attach rates on software? By that token then Nintendo wins with their ridiculous attach rates on Mario and Zelda. What about average hours played per console, average number of games sold per console? That’s the true test. Also, surely the hardcore own a PC and all the consoles?
I platinumed Mass Effect Andromeda. Hardcore mutha me.
66 posts and no facepalm gifs? you people disappoint me.
going by vgchartz, the attach rates are pretty similar 546m/81m v 251/38m - what it fails to account for is the growth rate of the actual install base. because the PS4's install base grows much more quickly year on year, the attach rate accordinly declines a bit more quickly as well, as there would be a slightly greater burden to the existing owners to buy games to maintain the ratio. (it's a set of differential equations rather than simple statistics).
as for point-in-time sales of individual titles, that depends on a lot of different factors.
Meanwhile Steam considers its gamers the most 'hardcore' of all gamers. GOG on the other hand, another popular PC game distributor, considers its DRM-free consumer-base to be the only hardcore gamer group in existence; not Steam gamers and certainly not console gamers,… and so on, and so on.
It's such a pointless statement, no matter who makes it. There's no such thing as a typical hardcore gamer, since you can definite it in so many ways, to whatever suits your agenda.
I thought the Xbox brand was above insulting gamers? Nice to know they're talking out their a** as usual.
It could be true. I mean I do know of four Xbox gamers and they all suffer from anxiety and ADHD lol
Well they won't want to cross-play with a load of PS casuals then. Good, that's that sorted.
Man. Imagine being such a hardcore gamer that all games are too casual for you so you buy an Xbox so you don't have to risk playing any.
They game on PC actually....
Fight me.
I love my Xbone but I hate comments like this from executive d-bags.
I think he ment to say Xbox fanboys will buy any kind of trash we release not matter what
@GKO900
Exactly. I'm not into bashing different fan bases but the way he puts it is not really praising 'harfcore' gamers. I feel that word meaning has become very vague anyway.
His comments are the sort of thing you hear on the playground. Sad.
"those who prefer the best gaming experience"... Play on PC with a stupidly expensive rig surely?
"those who prefer the best gaming experience"... Play on PC with a stupidly expensive rig surely?
"those who prefer the best gaming experience"... Play on PC with a stupidly expensive rig surely?
I guess if you support a system that doesn't have nearly as many great games your a pretty hardcore fan.
This just in: brand defends product!
Poor old MS, they really have nothing new to say these days.
This sort of PR hot air is all that the likes of Greenberg and Spencer can come out with in an attempt to keep the Xbox player base enfranchised with the brand, while their competitors keep churning out modern classics. Ammo for the playground.
Now you're average Xbox fanboy can say, "God of War? Spiderman? Mario Odyssey? I'm a hardcore gamer, that stuff is for casuals! Now, anything new(old) on Gamepass this month?"
It's a bit sad really.
Stupidity like this is why I can't stand Phil Spencer, Aaron Greenberg and the other MS talking heads and why I don't get the love the gaming community has for them at all. Whether the PlayStation haters like to admit it or not you don't sell 80 million plus, which Sony has done with every one of its home consoles, by just having casual gamers or just having hardcore gamers on your side. You need a mix of both and PlayStation has it. That's why for PlayStation a 'flop' is the 82- or 83-million selling PS3, a flop MS and Nintendo wish they could have when their consoles don't connect with the audience.
Anybody who doesn't think so can look up my posting history, I'm a big Xbox fan, but the MS suits are absolute morons. And @get2sammyb wants people at Sony to talk more? When I read articles like this I'm reminded why I'm ok with people at Sony and Nintendo shutting up.
Meh... hardcore, smardcore..
Fanboy flame fanning isnt as good as it used to be, compared to Sega v Nintendo or the Commodore v Spectrum days even..
All a load of cobblers... if there are people dedicated to a specifc game, genre or console, fair play to them...
makes no difference what anyone says, i'm having fun on my Binatone TV Master Mk 6 and couldnt care a jot...
I just did a search for "hardcore gamers". I found that the negative defintions listed outnumbered the positive listed.
I suppose it is hardcore to own a console that doesn't let you play most of your games when you have no internet.
Show Comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...