Topic: Gaming's pet peeves

Another thought came to me on the heels of playing The Pathless — what’s the deal with fictional language creation in video games?

I can’t say it’s a pet peeve necessarily, but after our recent discussion on subtitles, it’s a difficult one for me. I respect the artistic decision to use a fake language in a game to make the world seem exotic and fantastical. But then having to read the whole game dialogue can be a bit of a drag. I found myself glazing over the subtitles quickly and only halfway paying attention to what ended up being a decent story that I should have given more attention to.

The overall effect of a fictional language is often good though and I can’t say I disliked the way the language sounded in The Pathless. The game that comes to mind with the most gibberish language I think of is the Gravity Rush games. It’s cute and charming, but seriously sounds like baby talk.

Fictional language used to be more common in games, I think. It’s similar to the “silent protagonist” in the sense that gaming narrative had to be lean on the dialogue on account of technological limitations and smaller scale production back in the day. So a lot of older games had text only to read when characters spoke with little chirps and mumbles audible. More recently, I think it has to be an artistic choice to not have normal dialogue. These would include The Pathless, Gravity Rush 1/2, Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons , and the Team Ico Ueda games.

Do you have a favorite fictional gaming language? Or do you think it comes across a cheap and annoying to read the dialogue? I’m of two minds on the subject.

@Th3solution I think, at least in the case of The Pathless, the idea was to create an adventure in a world that intentionally feels completely foreign to all players. Artistically, the game meshes a lot of culturally varied symbols and imagery. This cultural mosaic extends to the score as well. I think it’s to let the universality of its existential themes shine. It’s a fairly recent human development to have a widespread disbelief in the existence of any god. “God is dead…” in the words of Nietzsche. By placing this story in a culturally and historically ambiguous framework - fictional language included - it becomes mythic in its presentation, I think allowing the player to instantly accept this world of pagan gods, allowing the heavy theological messaging to hit home.

The undeniable and clear message of this game is that there is no one true path to salvation, and the will to make it so will only destroy all. As a believer in Christ, this obviously doesn’t fully align with my personal convictions, however I applaud the game for exploring spiritual themes in a clever and thought provoking way. Sorry for the the somewhat rambling reply, as I said, I really enjoyed this game!

Oh, and if you’re so inclined, this was genuinely one of the funnest platinum trophies I’ve earned.

@Th3solution Not sure how it is cheap to have a fictional language in a game, as surely it takes more time and effort (and therefore involve more cost) to do something like that?

@JohnnyShoulder Well, I guess by “cheap” I meant “pointless” or “manipulative”, although I do think there’s maybe a monetary savings of not having to localize voice work for various language dubs. I don’t know how that affects cost, or even how often games employ a large number of language tracks since I always do English. Yakuza is the only game I’ve played in recent memory that doesn’t have localized English voice acting.

@Jimmer-jammer That’s a great breakdown of the game’s themes and I think you’re on the nose about the way the fictional language and culture were important in the telling of the story and relaying the message. And like you, I appreciate the attempts to dive into deep moral and ethical themes that the game does. I did have trouble wrapping my brain around the theme of keeping salvation “Pathless” as it seems like destroying anyone who would suggest a given path toward it would, in essence, still be dictating a path in a way… a pathless (or chaotic) path if that makes sense. So the game advocates for the philosophy that there is no one way to live and so we should embrace a life without rigid boundaries, but a pathless route to salvation is it’s own doctrinal path too. In other words, freedom from tyranny means that you don’t have to answer to a tyrant anymore, but you still have to answer to some kind of social construct, even if that construct is the other end of the spectrum, anarchy. You still have a system you live in, like it or not.

Another way to say it is if there is point A and point B, you can take the straight path from A to B, or a roundabout path that zigs and zags, but there is no “pathless” way there… unless you teleport… which even then, is a “path” of sorts.

I don’t know. I’m not an expert in philosophy… 😅

Oh and as far as the platinum, I’m trying to decide if I want to do it all. I’ve almost got all the animal tokens for the Mountain Tundra but having to scour each of the other plateaus sound like it might take the shine off the game’s enjoyment. I do want to see the alternate ending through, so I’ll probably at least do that and see how many trophies are left at the end.

@Th3solution 😅 That’s a lot to wrap my head around, but I think I’m bailing what you’re swathing!

The nice thing is, once you can fly to such great heights, moving around the world becomes much less of a chore. I really enjoyed the puzzles too, which understandably may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but made cleaning the map up rather enjoyable for me. However you end up proceeding, I’m glad you seem to have enjoyed it, and hope it was the palate cleanser you were seeking.

Oh, and best fictional language? Simlish.

@Jimmer-jammer @Th3solution I think The Pathless was the last platinum I got over a year ago, so think that shows that it wasn't a chore or a grind to get. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

@Th3solution Also I do think you are being a touch too harsh on a labelling any game with a made up language in the way you are. In terms of The Pathless, it took about 4 years to make and was an artistic choice, not a budgetary one to go with a made up language. So far from pointless, and I don't understand how you would think it, or similar game is being manipulative.

Even if it was the budget reasons though, they are only a small developer, so you would not expect the same production values as something that is more AAA.

Plus they did do some localisation as there were some different language options for the subtitles.

Sorry for thr mini rant! 😂

@JohnnyShoulder No worries, it’s not a rant; It’s my bad because I probably didn’t express myself very well up above — I intended it to come across as a discussion question rather than my opinion. That’s why I didn’t say “ I think [fictional language] comes across a cheap and annoying…” and rather posed it as a question. When I stated I’m of two minds on the subject, I was mainly referring to it in the context of the greater discussion about subtitles that was going on, since I had just said that I typically dislike subtitles and I prefer dubs. Obviously there’s no dub option for games in which not understanding the language is an intended part of the experience. So I’m of two minds because I usually don’t like subtitles and they distract from the action, but I enjoy good artistic use of a made-up language if it helps the immersion.

I’ve oft stated that Shadow of the Colossus is my favorite game of all time and Ueda is a genius imo. But I’ve seen plenty of people criticize his work, sometimes because of things like the controls, but also sometimes because of his artistic choices, the ideology expressed, and the ‘staginess’ of it all.

I personally wouldn’t call The Pathless ‘s approach as manipulative, as I mentioned when agreeing with jimmer’s breakdown of the game’s merits. The language fit well and enhanced the artistic and creative choices, imo. But I thought maybe some people might have issue with it because I occasionally read gamers on here who are critical with art-style games and games that try to express a message in a symbolic or avant-garde manner. If a game tries to be deep, artistic, or cute I hear players complain about it being pretentious. Another example (besides Ueda’s games) that comes to mind is Journey where one camp found the game a life-altering experience and another camp criticized it for being boring, pedantic, and overly rhetorical. The wordless chirping or singing instead of actual communication was, imo, an artistic choice which worked, but I’ve read people who call the game lazy, simplistic, and pretentious.

So in essence, I definitely do not hold the personal opinion that the way language is treated in these games is “pointless” or “manipulative”. My favorite game of all time uses the tactic. However, I do miss out a little on the story when I’m having to read it instead of hear it. I’m a fair reader, but during game time I often shut off my brain slightly and don’t concentrate sufficiently. Honestly, I barely skim all the extraneous collectibles with little nuggets of narrative, so I think I do end up missing out on the details, which I wouldn’t have if I could passively hear what it said.

@JohnnyShoulder Yeah, I thought it was quite enjoyable. Even platinums that I’ve found to be fun to earn overall have had there moments but this one was just a joy for me. Never felt like I was beating my head against a wall (well, there was one small blip but I can’t even remember the specifics of it now).

I adore my PS Vita but for crying out loud, why must I swipe the touchscreen every time I turn it on? Beyond that obnoxious opening, everything else can be done with button inputs (unlock code, navigation, etc.) so why force me to potentially dirty the screen for no good reason? I mean, my hands are always clean but still, it makes me real nervous from the get-go (or more accurately, even more nervous than usual, as I'm super-protective of my handhelds) and feels even more unnecessary when I'm using my Vita to play PSP games, which require no touchscreen inputs anyway.

[reads that back] Wow, this might be the most pernickety post I've ever written!

Online multiplayer games that are kept alive by an elite few, who all hit the level cap ages ago and who band together to take sadistic pleasure in terrorising curious casuals that're returning after a long absence to see about mopping up a few outstanding trophies.

Also, online multiplayer games that fail to recognise that okay, sure, I might be Lvl.64 but I've also been away for six years, so don't stick me on a team of neophytes and expect me to be able to carry them whilst I'm still trying to remember how to dodge-roll.

Also also, online multiplayer games that reward skilled players with better gear. Give that stuff to the people who need it, and make good players play with some kind of handicap.

Also also also, online multiplayer in general. Everybody's better than me. It's not fair!

[...]

Aaaand breathe.

@RogerRoger Sadly, the best time to get into an online multiplayer game is when it's new so that you'll face off against people of various skill levels. I could never bring myself to starting up old multiplayer games like Halo just because the remaining player base would all just be too good at the game.

I do miss those days of playing multiplayer games though. I never play multiplayer titles anymore. Although maybe it's a good thing since the whole notion of dying, respawning, dying, respawning over and over again just to get the highest score seems so asinine to me nowadays.

@RogerRoger You’re speaking my language there! I think I might enjoy some multiplayer games if not for the very issues you describe. Most of them are so off-putting for us who are new or less skilled. Or who simply don’t have (or want to spend) dozens of hours a week to use in one specific gameplay loop.

I know some online MP game have better matchmaking than others, but my luck has been poor, such that I’ve given up trying.

I might make an exception for Factions 2, but I don’t know. I do miss the Assassin’s Creed MP that had options to hide and get points for your team by simply staying alive longer. 😅

@LtSarge Yeah, it's a real shame, but that does seem to be the rule. I keep my multiplayer options very limited, so this was somewhat of a first for me, returning to something I used to be average-to-good at and hitting such a brutal wall. Trust me, you're not missing anything with regards that "death, respawn, run forward, death, respawn, run forward, death" loop. That was a solid hour of my life yesterday. It ain't worth it!

@Th3solution Some games get the balance better than others but you're right, there always seems to be a minimum time investment, both initially (in order to "git gud" enough to get your eye in) and then going forward (to "stay gud" enough to keep your eye in, and to therefore make the most of your efforts). There needs to be some real strong incentive to undertake that process, at least for me.

And yeah, I miss the days when multiplayer modes were a little more unique and adventurous. I regret never trying the one in Batman: Arkham Origins because it sounded pretty cool.

Here's hoping The Last of Us 2: Factions is decent enough for you. Funnily enough, the only time I've ever spent any major multiplayer time outside of a galaxy far, far away was with the Uncharted 4 Multiplayer, so I know how good Naughty Dog can make such things!

@RogerRoger The thing is though that most games that came out back in the day (PS3/360 days) used to come with a multiplayer component. It was unheard of to buy a game that didn't offer online multiplayer. That's not the case anymore, for better or worse. Better because not every game needs multiplayer and it's a waste of resources. Worse because it feels like we're moving away from that era and seeing less and less online multiplayer games. Instead, we're getting live-service games, which I don't like at all.

Regardless of what people may say about the PS3/360 era (too many shooters, too many online multiplayer games and so on), I'm very glad that I grew up during it. I have so many fond memories of playing games online like Halo 3, Red Dead Redemption, GTA, Ghost Recon Future Soldier, Rainbow Six Vegas 2, Goldeneye 007 (Wii), Killzone 3 and more.

@LtSarge It's funny how things shake out because you're right, back in the PS360 era, you'd see a lot of reviews complain about a game's "obligatory tacked-on multiplayer mode" whereas, for a while towards the tail end of the PS4's generation, games that were clearly designed with multiplayer front-and-centre got the same sort of criticism for featuring "short, tacked-on single player campaigns".

It does feel like we're in an era where games are strictly one or the other, which is a shame. I always liked the idea of sticking around and trying a substantial multiplayer after completing a game's campaign, and wish I'd taken advantage of a few more opportunities in my time.

Funnily enough, I was thinking about Killzone earlier! Would've loved to try the Killzone 3 and Shadow Fall multiplayer modes, but fear I've missed the boat. Not just in terms of server shutdowns and whatnot, but also because my gaming skills are definitely getting worse as I get older.

@RogerRoger I did spend some time with Uncharted 3 MP, I think? Or was it UC2? Maybe both. But I did enjoy it somewhat with some friends, but I had pitiful internet at the time and so I still struggled to stay relevant in the matches. At least that’s what I blame it on. 😒

I played a little taste of many online MP modes back then on the PS3 — Mass Effect 3, the aforementioned AC, the original Factions, and even the Tomb Raider reboot. It was an experimental time for me in gaming, as well as for the gaming metaverse with the new possibilities that high speed internet brought about.

I guess over the course of the PS4 generation I lost interest. Mainly because of the issues of life ramping up the ‘busyness’ scale, but I think honestly another aspect is the sheer number of games coming out, added to my budget becoming less constrained, and the resultant development of the backlog. Gone are the days that I would need to experiment with random game modes to fill my gaming time.

My favorite online MP aspect now is asynchronous MP. Death Stranding has done it best so far. But it’s been a nice little addition to games like Gravity Rush 2, Returnal, and the Souls games.

@Th3solution Oh yeah, I miss those days, where one could stand staring at a shelf of games and spend a good few minutes wondering what to play that evening. The days of freedom and experimentation, of being able to stick with a game beyond its closing credits. The days before the backlog.

Alright, when the heck did our hobby become such a chore...?!

Uncharted 3 definitely had a very accessible multiplayer, although I think I only ever played it with friends in pre-planned digital get-togethers once or twice (again, like you, I can count all of my PS3 online experiences on one hand). I wish I'd tried the Tomb Raider reboot's multiplayer, although I gather its PS4 remaster's servers are still up and running, just empty.

I'll admit, when possible, I deactivate asynchronous online features in my single-player games. Maybe I just haven't encountered the right implementation yet. They must've been cool to win you over!

As for asynchronous MP, the games I listed mainly have just items, notes, pictures, perks, or power ups that other players leave behind for you. The Souls games also have PvP invasions, but I’m mostly able to avoid those. Otherwise the messages and ghost images flashing of another players last moments before death prove to not only be helpful warnings, but also weirdly comforting, knowing you’re not alone out there in the gauntlet of hardship.

But with Death Stranding, the game is definitely much easier when you utilize the online network. When you reach check points and connect then the world populates all manner of bridges, ladders, vehicles, and roads to make your traversal more painless and quicker. There’s a real unspoken sense of community with these players out there who leave behind structures for you. And you can reciprocate by leaving machinations of your own, and by giving the person “likes” (in true internet fashion) which builds a little virtual worth for them. Anyways, I shouldn’t drone on about it, my love of Death Stranding is well documented. But I think I just discovered the main difference to me of why I like this style of online play — most of the asynchronous MP I’ve enjoyed is cooperative rather than competitive.

That makes a lot of sense, and is very much something I reckon I could get behind.

I was thinking back over this subject the other day, and realised that the first time I encountered any kind of online "multiplayer-esque" connectivity in a single-player game was Just Cause 3 and its HUD's perpetual leaderboard comparisons for almost every activity and statistic (longest glide, biggest explosion, fastest completion time, etc.). It turned what was supposed to be cathartic, escapist mayhem into a constant reminder that my skills weren't as good as other people's. I kinda hated that.