@Jaz007 I'm not certain whether Bloodborne (or the Dark Souls games) were specifically marketed as "really difficult games" or whether they boasted about the high skill level required to play them on their boxes; if they did, then that's fine, because it's being upfront about it, and I'm sure by the second or third release they became known for being near-impossible. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with the franchise, beyond their reputation.
But then, playing devil's advocate against my own argument, most of those games (if not all) were released in the age of the YouTube playthrough; I know it's not the same as actually playing, but at least it means somebody could see the story to the end if they really, really wanted to (and had the bandwidth).
For me personally, I just think that leaving out an "Easy" mode is a little unfair on those who are genuinely interested in a game's story and characters, but cannot master the gameplay. Especially since it often takes actually playing a game to realise just how good (or not-so-good) you are at it, which could lead to a lot of folks spending up to £60 (or dollars) on a new release they'll never be able to play more than half an hour of. Perhaps the point about story investment is more towards games with sudden difficulty spikes, though, rather than games that are tough right off the bat, as I'd imagine it's tough to get invested enough in an opening cutscene to be crushingly disappointed when you struggle to complete the prologue.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@Jaz007 It was at chapter 13 I think the difficulty spike, when it stopped being open world. You must have saved the game at some point though, that makes no sense that you didn't save the game in your entire play through? Most of the dungeons you couldn't save in, there was one right near then end where there was a camp which you could save at. I was thinking why didn't they have this in all the other dungeons.
@RogerRoger The Souls like games are bit different, by including an Easy option you take away the challenge and the pure sense of exhilaration when you get past a difficult section or boss. The main difference imo is it doesn't feel unfair, it can be overcome just by learning stuff from the game.
I don't recall there being anything on the boxes about the games being difficult, the publisher may have played up to it in marketing with the whole Prepare to Die slogan. I think the media makes more of the difficulty more than anything. I would say they are more challenging than difficult, and they take a certain approach to fully appreciate them. I mean I'm certainly nothing special and managed to beat two of them and getting right to the end of the other two. Of course they have their difficult moments, but don't all games?
@JohnnyShoulder No, I saved throughout, but I never had a forced reload. I never died or had a game over. So I never had to think about it that much unless I wanted to play another game.
I’ll add a little to the discussion of difficulty levels —
I hadn’t noticed JRPGs being worse about it than Western games, but as a general rule, I have been playing on Easy more and more lately in all my games. For me it has to do with my backlog and the sheer number of games I want to try to play. I want to just experience the story and move along through a game and not get stuck on difficult levels or having to spend the extra time grinding. When I was younger, I had fewer games and more free time, but now, I can’t afford to get bogged down too much in my progress. Therefore, I find the ability to adjust things down and accommodate for the less skilled or physically challenged a welcome addition to modern gaming.
...That said, earlier this year I found my first playthrough of Bloodborne simply sublime. There of course is no decreased difficulty setting, and as others have said — grinding and overleveling is the easy mode in Bloodborne. And that’s how I played it. And I do agree that I would hope everyone could experience the bliss of playing and completing that game, and the joy of defeating the bosses and opening up the different intricately planned out areas. It saddens me that a huge chunk of the gaming world will never get to experience the full game because of that perceived difficulty when you start the opening area. But alas, I suppose that could be part of what the developer is shooting for. It does sound a little elitist to shut out gamers who don’t have the innate skill or the patience to stick with it, but the completion may not have tasted so sweet if it were any different.
What am I trying to say? I’m not really sure. ...Just that I kind of agree with both sides here. I prefer to be able to play on easy, but I recognize some games would be cheapened by such an adjustment. And I do think the inherent difficulty is the artistic intent for many of those games.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
Dark souls games are not unfair, but they are challenging. If you have problems with some bosses or some monsters, you could almost always brute force your way by farming souls and leveling your character.
The wolfenst 2 the new colossus is the epitome of unfair game with wild difficulty spikes. I sometimes struggled even on Daddy (very easy) difficulty. Try playing that game and then talk about difficulty spikes.
Finished Spiderman yesterday but it reminded me of one of my massive pet peeves. I hate, just HATE trippy alternate drug reality sections in games. It seems like every game has to try and insert one or two sequences where you fight shadowy hallucinations in the not real world. It takes me out of the game, breaks the gameplay mechanics and does me nut in. That also applies to EVERY FAR CRY GAME.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Rudy_Manchego The only time I've experienced this that I can remember was in GTAV where Michael smokes drugs from some random dude at a booth in a side activity. It was literally just aliens spawning in and you having to kill them for like 5 minutes straight. It was awful.
@Th3solution ...or just summon someone to help you out. I'm not ashamed to say I did that for a few of the DS3 bosses and actually quite enjoy helping people out with tricky bosses too.
@Th3solution I'm slightly in the other direction, I always play games on normal and occasionally put it up a notch if I find I'm coasting along a bit too easily.
Some games can alter quite drastically. IIRC The Witcher 3 on anything above normal makes it so you need to use oils and potions more before combat.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
@Rudy_Manchego It's such a cheap plot device to do put something supernatural/non-canonical in a game.
Also, so many games act like it's a dramatic special moment in the game, while it's in every other game.
It is lazy.
(However, I did like the alternate reality stuff in the Witcher 3, because it actually did something with it others hadn't done before. So, exceptions are possible.)
@Kidfried Sure, I mean if it has a real place in the plot then great but I mean, in Spiderman for example, it was worst kind of lazy in an otherwise great game. Shadowy swirly graphics? Check. Vocals slowed down, slurred and deepened? Check. Someone shouting 'this isn't you' over and over again? Check.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Jaz007 The only bit that annoyed me was how Talbot kept getting away and didn't seem to be injured when shot. I guess if we assume it was all the hallucinogen it sort of makes sense, but it did seem a bit contrived even for Uncharted. I liked the ending portions though.
@JohnnyShoulder Thanks for the information about the Souls games; sounds like they're not suddenly challenging or unfairly difficult at any stage (I was discussing them out of ignorance, so I appreciate the corrective context). Also, that "Prepare to Die" slogan was exactly the kinda thing I was hoping they'd have implemented anyway; gives enough of a heads-up for potential players to ask why and learn more about the game's difficulty level before handing over cash.
@beemo Very kind of you to say, thank you. Although now I'm genuinely terrified that my paragraphs of rambling nonsense actually make sense to some people!
@Th3solution Good post, thanks for adding it in. Sometimes being able to see both sides of a debate is insanely frustrating, and I agree with a lot of your conclusions you make after having experienced Bloodborne (again, never played myself, but you described it very well indeed). Your point about the time pressures on modern gaming is also spot-on. As @Kidfried accurately stated before, the subject of difficulty is a difficult subject. The last thing I want to do is come across as somebody who's against challenge in games; I'm really, really not, because it's the element that can often lift gaming above and beyond other art forms (for those who are able, at any rate).
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
The wolfenst 2 the new colossus is the epitome of unfair game with wild difficulty spikes. I sometimes struggled even on Daddy (very easy) difficulty. Try playing that game and then talk about difficulty spikes.
Really? No offence intended, but I'm struggling to recall anything quite so bad in that game (it had other issues for me, but difficulty wasn't one of them). There was a small amount of "restart this section two or three times" but no more than in the previous two Wolfenstein reboots.
Do you remember the specific sections which gave you grief?
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@Rudy_Manchego Agreed; they've become far too commonplace, and many aren't unique enough to justify their existence. Along similar lines, I think I posted in this topic a few pages ago about how (personally speaking, of course) the Scarecrow sequences in Arkham Asylum were awesome, but that the obligatory follow-up League of Shadows Trials in Arkham City were by-the-numbers bunk by comparison.
@Jaz007 The extended heatstroke sequence in the middle stretched on a little too far for me, and attempted to get a little too philosophical and metaphorical, but the stuff during the finale was okay because it served the storyline in quite a direct, impactful way.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Oh I wasn't saying to stop posting about difficulty in video games, I wouldn't make such bold requests. It was just my very poor attempt at cracking a joke!
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
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