Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

@RogerRoger ahh but your forgetting one thing that was a dream, it was Picard having a game of poker with Data as he last saw him in the one place Picard thought of as his true home, so Data wearing the TNG movie uniform on the Enterprise D i never had an issue with

as for the take on Starfleet, DS9 did stuff like that too, it showed that it wasn't perfect and it made mistakes, it's just this time that mistake had a huge consequence but i don't think it's as black and white as people think, in the middle of helping someone else they were attacked and so they decided to focus on that and abandoned the people they were helping, remember Picard didn't leave Starfleet over the Romulan indecent, he left because he felt the ban on all synthetic lifeforms because of the actions of one rouge group was wrong, it was basically him protesting it

@FullbringIchigo @RogerRoger
That's really my main issue with the narrative. Starfleet (and conflation with the Federation) decreeing the synthetic ban and coming off as near xenophobic. Yes we've seen elements of xenophobia and clichéd bureaucracy from Starfleet and the Federation in the past, but it really does seem like a bit of a stretch. Perhaps they will elaborate, and I hope they do, but I got the impression that the synths were nowhere near Data (and ignored Lore) levels of sophistication - so did they investigate at all? Was it an act of terrorism by an outside force? A revolution by an indentured populace? There just feels like there's a big chunk of reasoning missing. I also have reservations of Picard agreeing to an interview with an obvious 'tabloid' journalist...

@FullbringIchigo Oh, sure, I get it from the dream perspective. I just feel like, from an audience / visual impact perspective, I might've made a different creative decision, s'all. You're right, from Picard's perspective, it makes more sense. And it's such a tiny issue anyway!

The bit which really struck me as jarring (and it sounds like @KALofKRYPTON would agree) was when the journalist corrected Picard's statement about saving lives with "Romulan lives" and Picard had to respond with "No, lives." Even in this day and age, that reporter would be called out as a racist almost immediately. It felt like artificially-constructed tension, and a bit of an immature grab for low-hanging trigger fruit. Now, that's either because she was a tabloid journalist trying to get a reaction for her show (possible) or it's a lack of understanding about Gene Roddenberry's hopeful vision for the future (equally possible). I guess time, and a couple more episodes, will tell. I'm keen to see how Picard's meeting with the Starfleet Admiral goes, the one we've seen in the trailers.

@RogerRoger that's the thing. I accept that tabloid journalism could still be a thing, I accept that not the entirety of the Federation populace is a happy-clapping do-gooder, but the animosity towards Romulans doesn't really make a huge amount of sense. There's historic military conflict and an analogue of The Cold War to extent, but the xenophobia is overplayed in all areas. They want Picard to be the only 'good' man left, which would seem to necessitate everyone and everything else connected to the Federation as being bad or damaged.

@RogerRoger @KALofKRYPTON i think the whole point of the interview was to be a info dump, with only 10 episodes in the season, the fact that the short trek hasn't been released outside of the U.S and that 20 years has passed since we last saw that period of Trek it was probably the easiest way for them to do it

@KALofKRYPTON Given that Picard has two Romulans living happily, openly and peacefully with him at the chateau, at least we can infer that the Federation isn't racist enough to ban them, as well as synthetics.

@FullbringIchigo Oh, very true. It's early days and we had a lot of catching up to do! Still loved it.

by the way here is a much better quality version of that invitation than the twitter post

I have to say that Doctor Who was really good this week. Great to see returning faces, they answered one of my gripes of ‘surely other Doctors are kicking about the place’ and there’s some interesting teases for the future.

@nessisonett
It was alright.

The rumoured previous regeneration cycle rumour looks like its going to pan out, but I thought it would be more distinct. Not entirely sure how they'll explain the other Doctor's TARDIS looking like a police box unless it's going to be a 'forgotten regenerations' thing rather than a whole previous cycle.

@KALofKRYPTON @nessisonett that's what i was thinking i never really liked the explanation that Tennant used 2 but never changed in order to make up the count so i would be down for a forgotten Regeneration, it's the only real way to explain why she is called the Doctor and why the TARDIS looks like it does and i think i know where it could be, we never actually saw the 2nd Doctor turn into the 3rd so what if this new Doctor is from between them she went on the run before being exiled on earth but she was eventually found like what happened in this episode, regenerated and had his/her memory of that regeneration wiped

on a side note i have a few ideas about who "Ruth" could be if it isn't a forgotten regeneration or a previous cycle, first it's genny, the Doctors daughter/clone, second it could be the Meta Doctor, perhaps he found a way to regenerate or met up with time lords in the other universe and came back to this one, that would explain how they are the same person but different their regenerations are different

anyway no matter what it does this will change the lore of Doctor Who forever

@FullbringIchigo It's certainly a bold move, but they're going to have to be very careful how it's all explained. I really don't like the idea of just having missing regenerations among the main incarnations; it would feel ham-fisted.

Perhaps The new Doctor is from another dimension or divergent timeline with a different set of personalities - or as was rumoured, just an entire set of regenerations pre-Hartnell that were lost/erased from memory. Of course, that still doesn't explain the Police Box.

I'm thinking they'll go with a divergent thread from Hartnell onwards with the current Master being divergent from Simm/Gomez regenerations.

@KALofKRYPTON you know one thing i wouldn't mind IF it was a pre Hartnell cycle, perhaps they could retcon the 9th Doctor from the Screams of the Shalka into that cycle, think about it an entire cycle we never knew about would mean potentially 13 other Doctors with their own stories and adventures, as for the police box perhaps if the previous cycle was erased a little bit of memory might still be there so perhaps the current Doctor chose that name for the same reason as the old one, maybe even stole the old Doctors Tardis and even took it to 1960's earth and changed it to a police box because there was some lingering memory or feeling that was who he was and that was how it was meant to be

@FullbringIchigo That was what the rumoured story was going to be. A(or multiple) completely separate set of regenerations for each Time Lord, all hidden from their current overall persona.

@KALofKRYPTON the thing is that wouldn't fully work because the current Doctor is from a brand new cycle so if that's the case she shouldn't remember any of the stuff from Hartnell to Smith

@FullbringIchigo It was revealed in one of the books (admittedly, non-canon - but since kind of verified on screen) that the regeneration limit is artificial. It is self-imposed by the Time Lords themselves. So while 13 is technically from a new cycle - the Doctor was granted extra regeneration energy to his current lifetime without getting a 'reset', so to speak.

@KALofKRYPTON true but like you said that was a non-canon novel but if they used that explanation i could live with that

@FullbringIchigo As I say, that has been played out to a certain extent on screen on several occasions. Most recently The Time Of The Doctor.

@FullbringIchigo Also, I hope they tie this all up with Omega and Rassilon. Otherwise it really won't make much sense.

@KALofKRYPTON that's true but who knows with Chibnall

@FullbringIchigo
This is probably the best and most likely explanation.
https://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/doctor-who/69653/doctor-who-f...