Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

Welcome to Ten Forward, a place created to prevent the derailment of other topics when two or three Trekkies start talking about boldly going, which captain was best, starship design and all that other nerdy goodness.

Discuss and debate any aspect of the ever-growing franchise in here, from the shows and films themselves to games, comics, models and anything else you can think of. There's plenty coming up, with Season Two of Star Trek: Discovery, a fourth Kelvin Timeline film and a Jean-Luc Picard mini-series all at various stages of production at the time of posting. There's also new content being regularly added to Star Trek Online and Star Trek: Bridge Crew, both currently available on PlayStation4.

"See you... out there!"

@RogerRoger IF the 4th Kelvin Timeline film gets made, they still don't have Pine on board (and i understand why, he signed a contract during the filming of Beyond and now Paramount want to change it and pay him less than he originally signed for) and you can't do one with out James T Kirk

@FullbringIchigo There was an interview with Karl Urban (my favourite of the Kelvin cast) over the weekend where he said he was "very confident" the situation would get resolved, both with Pine and with Chris Hemsworth. I think Paramount are the villains of that piece; they're trying to bring costs down, but contracts are contracts.

They've also announced that the whole film will shoot in the UK (we've got good tax breaks, as Disney have been discovering by filming all of the new Star Wars films over here). It'll happen!

@RogerRoger i hope so i really like Pines version of James T Kirk

and i did read that interview actually on TrekMovie.com

https://trekmovie.com/2018/08/31/karl-urban-confident-star-tr...

@FullbringIchigo Me too; I've come to really like the Kelvin cast, particularly after Beyond (and they're all really decent voice actors, too; that was not the problem with the PS3 game they did, not by a long shot).

I saw it on TrekCore. That's where I tend to go for my semi-regular Trekkie updates, not least because they always report on the La La Land soundtracks (and I can't wait for the second Voyager release). I also used to be a member of their community, many moons ago, and wrote some short stories for them. Decent bunch of folks over there.

@RogerRoger i liked the cast since 09 to be honest, actually i enjoyed all 3 Kelvin Timeline films although Into Darkness wasn't the best film of the franchise it's not a bad one either, it's nowhere near Final Frontier or Motion Picture bad

most of the outrage came from casing Benrdict Cumberbatch as Khan and i can understand why but if people actually listen to whats said and even read the official comic sequel they would know WHY he looked like he did (Marcus wiped his memory and used surgery to change him both mentally and physically into John Harrison so he could control him) so it actually makes sense he WASN'T middle eastern this time round (although they had no problem with a Mexican-American playing him in TOS and WoK for some reason)

@FullbringIchigo I'll whisper the fact that I love The Motion Picture and The Final Frontier very, very quietly then... but you're right, Into Darkness wasn't the offensive travesty many make it out to be.

You're absolutely right; I'd have been more surprised if Admiral Marcus didn't alter Khan's appearance. It'd be like somebody cloning Hitler to seize power; everybody's gonna recognise the infamous mass-murdering tyrant right away. If you're gonna use somebody like Khan, he can't look like Khan, because somebody who wrote their dissertation on him is immediately gonna go "Hey, that's Khan!" and Starfleet would trace him back to Marcus.

However, in context of modern cinema, I could understand concerns over white-washing and I therefore reckon that it was a poorly-timed example of plot logic (rare when you consider how much plot logic matters to your average sci-fi action flick, especially one by JJ Abrams).

Star Trek has more than enough good credit when it comes to cast and character equality, though, and all without needing to use fanfare or positive discrimination.

@RogerRoger @FullbringIchigo My Kelvin timeline issues largely stem from the production design rather than the casting. There are plenty of caveats and contrivances to the films that really annoy me too - but it is far to say that as weak as a lot of the plotting is, Beyond is the best of the bunch by a fairly long way for me.

TMP is a great film - It's just not an action film.

And just to have everyone share (perhaps) my nerdrage - how are we all feeling about the Discovery Enterprise re-size/potential retcon?

Also, @RogerRoger - thanks for the thread!

@KALofKRYPTON Yay! Love for The Motion Picture!

Best warp speed effect ever. Period.

There's been a size retcon for the Enterprise? Is it smaller or bigger? Not that I'm surprised (given how Discovery is happy to retcon everything else) but wasn't the actual size of the Enterprise stated several times in the original series? And didn't they notice the outrage when the Kelvin Timeline redesigned the Enterprise to be over 700m long?

@RogerRoger Indeed! It really is a great film!

Yep, well, I guess that depends on whether they continue to insist that Discovery is canon prime timeline - but they've confirmed that the saucer of the Discovery-prise is the same size as the Shenzou, which puts it closer to prime timeline Excelsior size than a canon Constitution.

This is from when the size of the Shenzhou was revealed (through Eaglemoss) using canon scale.

@KALofKRYPTON ...you mean the massive starship they specifically designed to make the Enterprise look small, old and obsolete?

Well, buttons. They can say it all they want; all evidence points to Discovery being a separate timeline, and I'm perfectly okay with thinking that in my head whilst watching. I don't even need to know what caused the divergence. I can make something up. It's cool.

That's the one yeah! haha

Here's a better comparison:

@KALofKRYPTON Why? Why must everything be as big as all outdoors?

There was a logical progression and advancement before all this. I even loved how, after the elegant extravagance of the Enterprise-D, they went for "small but super-advanced" with both the Defiant and Voyager, and the "submarine in space" look of the NX-01 made for a very different, retro-advanced feel.

Makes me wonder if the Picard series is gonna show us some bizarre city-ships or something. I hope not. I'd like to see the Enterprise-F or Enterprise-G but not if it's gonna be crazy.

@RogerRoger Because production designers Just. Don't. Care.

I love the ship design advance in Trek. Especially (as you point out) the change in design language from the largely exploration period to building sleeker, powerful warships.

I'd hope that they'll not chuck out the books and or STO stories if I'm honest. I'm not a fan of the Odyssey class at all - but I'd rather they ran with the E going out of service with Data as captain than anything else.

As for Discovery, I think the only way out and to slighty maintain canon is to have the war destroy almost all of the Klingon worlds and technology as well as the entirety of Starfleet's fleet, with canon scaling and technology a result of post war depression.

@RogerRoger @KALofKRYPTON oh don't get me wrong i love The Motion Picture and Final Frontier but they ain't exactly good films, they have that so bad it's good quality for me

as for Discovery that would be a good way of doing it but the war is already over, it ended at the end of season 1 so it can't be that

maybe they could just use time travel and change history so everything ends up like TOS

@RogerRoger also as @KALofKRYPTON said, great idea for a thread