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Topic: Is the Game Industry Heading for another collapse?

Posts 41 to 48 of 48

themcnoisy

@BAMozzy That's not what we are saying at all. The Witcher 3 is a terrible example of what we all think.

I can pretty much categorically say that heart of stone was fine practice. It was an expansion. That's fine. The Witcher 3 was complete at release.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

PLEXTOR08

Even if it was heading for a collapse (which seems very unlikely) I doubt it would be because of the hardware, the software on the other hand...

Imo the biggest risk for the gaming markets potential failure is the lack of original and actually fun games. Most people these days seem to either care the most about a safe purchase, or about good first impressions. Offcourse this isn't necessarily bad but this means that big developers are more prone to exploit this behaviour by fans. They will just keep making sequel after sequel without really changing anything substantial (cough Assassins Creed cough Call of Duty cough) and even if they DO change something its not always for the better. People will buy this because they know what to expect. This leads to less original ideas and games from big developers and even other developers as they will just re-use ideas and gameplay elements from other developers. On top of that, because people care so much about first impressions, developers and publishers are actively trying to make their game LOOK good without making them, you know, good (at least on launch) all while racking up the prices.

Gamers put up with it now but I believe there will be a moment where people get sick of it or maybe just can't afford some games anymore. And that this will lead to a collapse.

I'm a bit of a cynic though and this is all speculation so my reasoning could be completely wrong but this is how I see it

Edited on by Tasuki

PLEXTOR08

Rudy_Manchego

@BAMozzy I am sorry dude but there is no need to be rude. I am not an entitled gamer and to suggest so is very belittling. I have, and do, value your opinion but this is just a discussion.

Some games have done DLC well and I am all for that. CD Projekt Red are pretty much a standard bearer with TW3 for good practice. No of course I don't think that HZD DLC was chopped off. I think it is going to be very good and bad on the quality of the full game which was a full and complete package, I will probably pre-order.

Can I prove it categorically for every suspected instance that gamers are being ripped off? Of course not. But yes I can point to examples. The upcoming Life Is strange prequel. I can buy three episodes for a set price of £14. Or I can buy the extended edition at £20, and get a bonus mini episode available straight after episode 3 that allows me to see an additional ending with a much beloved character. No idea on length but at £6 for an mini episode it is only £1 cheaper than a full episode. Why?

Injustice 2 launched with a set roster of characters but if you spent more at launch you can get an additional character. I have just spent £50 on a launch game but to get the full roster of characters I should spend more?

FFXV, according to some of my friends who have it, has characters who disappear from for chunks of the narrative but surprise you can now buy those chunks back as DLC if you want to find out why. Not only that but the cost to length for this content is far worse value then with the base game.

This kind of thing is happening more and more. I am sorry, it just is. DLC by its nature is cheaper to produce since assets have largely been written. Profitability in DLC is high which is why publishers release it. Again, that is pretty much fact. As a consumer, if the product is worth it and it is clear that thought and effort have gone into DLC after the fact, like TLOU, TW3, and HZD looks, I don't mind buying and increasing the revenue of a game because I want to support good games. When a release is clearly being designed at launch to sell me something down the line after I have paid full price for it, well I don't think that is consumer friendly. It isn't entitlement.

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

PSN: Rudy_Manchego | Twitter:

BAMozzy

@Rudy_Manchego I am sorry that you thought I was calling you specific as 'entitled', I wasn't. I was being 'general' and there are a number who get all aggressive and criticise Developers for DLC for announcing Season Passes before a game has launched, can't understand how DLC can be 'made' by release (or so soon after) and bracket 'every' DLC or Season Pass with the same disdain. Yet when you point out something like the Witcher 3 offering a Season Pass, that's OK because its CDPR and theirs is 'good'. To CoD fans, the Season Pass is good too - More maps and co-op maps than comes with the base game. Battlefield Premium offers great value to BF players. Arguably Arkham Knights was 'poor' value as most of it was nothing but 'cosmetics'.

I would much rather hear about a Season Pass on (or even before) launch - especially as some games release with 'special' editions including these. After BF3, which announced its 'Season Pass' after the 1st DLC launched and charged the same regardless. Season Passes are optional and its up to you if you buy at launch, after the first or even wait until the full season so you know 'exactly' what you are getting and make a more 'informed' decision.

The 3 examples, you mention, I have no idea about, not games I would buy, and if that is the way they are operating, the kind of games I would 'boycott' in the hope that these decisions backfire on the publishers and they 'rethink' their strategy - as I was saying about micro-transactions. They get away with it because we allow them too.

We as gamers, are capable of forcing change. The 'Vote with the Wallet' mantra has a much bigger impact than complaining online. We shouldn't bracket everything under the same umbrella either and look at each on an individual basis. Comparing the price of CoD or BF's Season Pass as being 'too much' because the Witcher 3's was only £20. It needs to be looked at on a per-game basis. The games you mentioned above then should be taken to task and not bought until they change their attitude. Injustice 2 doesn't sound that 'different' from getting a few bonus cars in a racing game in a 'special edition' and selling the bonus cars as a DLC pack for those who didn't get the special edition. I don't see why a 'special' edition shouldn't give the 'first' DLC bonus pack free as an extra so why not a 'bonus' fighter? What was the rosta in Injustice? If it was 60 fighters and now reduced to 50, then I can understand it but if you got 30 before and now get 50 as standard, they have given you more this time. It like buying a loaf of bread that's always been £1 and 750g, and now they do a 'special edition' 1kg loaf with extra slices for £1.20 and raise the size of the standard loaf by a couple of slices to 800g for £1 then complaining they are getting 'more' than you. Like I said I don't know much about Injustice myself. I wouldn't complain though if Forza 7 or GTSport were 'bigger' than their predecessors, had more cars and tracks for my £40 and did a Special edition with a 'bonus car pack' for £60 and charged me a £5 for those cars (if I wanted them) via DLC - I am still getting 'more for my money' than I did before. The developers are still making the game 'bigger' and charging the same.

It still annoys me that people (again not you specifically) are hypocritical - especially about games they would never play. Criticising Activision for example for CoD and its Season Pass and then buying another games Season pass because its a game they enjoy and it works out cheaper. I personally cannot find a way to justify Micro-transactions in full priced AAA games but then I have bought a camo or 2 in Black Ops 2 - although not since then. I can tolerate purely cosmetic items (although think these should be sold individually - not in 'random' loot crates). Again another area of Hypocrisy - criticise one game that has these but happily buy them in Overwatch...

Still, I think this is getting away from the topic. I again apologise if you though I was calling you 'Entitled' as I wasn't. I think we need to look at each game individually. Even if you desperately want to play these games, wait until they are 'cheap' so you still vote with your wallet. I don't think we are heading for another collapse though, at most a change in practice - just hope its a positive change...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

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PSN: TaimeDowne

themcnoisy

@BAMozzy you've completely gone off a cliff there Bam.

Who are these people who moan about a season pass in cod and then buy season passes for other games? Not any of us in this discussion. We don't like the practice full stop. Remember unreal tournament? All of the map packs were free.

Both Forza and GT have actually really peed me off recently, forza in particular. All of the cars were built into the game for 1-3.when Forza 4 released a number of cars were locked behind microtransactions.

Some of said cars, Were in Forza 3!!! That's the nonsense we are talking about. Lazy microtransactions. Monetization because companies can do it regardless if it's morally correct or not. And it's not.

As for cdpr, I'm not saying Im happy with the dlc because it's cdpr. It's because the way they rolled it out was fair. The main game was huge anyway and the 2 expansions added to that experience some time after release. Proper expansions.

Loot crates are a crazy phenomenon. I don't need to point out why they are morally wrong. It's gambling. Whenever you pay money and it's random us wrong and shouldn't be allowed other than in a bookies or playing the lottery.

The example of LiS @Rudy_Manchego uses is perfect. It's so money grabbing as to be a two fingered salute. Just sell the full package for £17 rather than the 2 different packs for £14/£20. Bonkers.

Anyway after writing that I've come to the conclusion that @Dichotomy is right. We wouldn't be writing this gobbledygook 10 years ago.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

themcnoisy

@KratosMD it wasn't the Porsche cars dlc I was referring too. It was the monetization system for the on disc at release cars.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

themcnoisy

@KratosMD https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&am...

In fact take a look at this nonsense from forza 6. This game wasn't meant to have micro transactions. They updated the game and boom.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

Tasuki

Ok, we'll I think this thread has been derailed enough. We have said all our peace on whether another game crash could happen, not quite sure how we ended up about microtransactions and season passes and how people feel entitled but in the end I think we can all agree that a crash could happen but probably won't to the same degree.

RetiredPush Square Moderator and all around retro gamer.

My Backlog

PSN: Tasuki3711

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