Topic: Is it time to ditch user reviews on Metacritic?

@Ralizah And who decides which opinion is thoughtless or stupid and which are sound and reasonable? Should we establish a thought police? Again I also don't see anywhere that it says all human beings must treat numerical rating systems in exactly the same way.

And yes it is a point of view. From my point of view Part II has incredibly bad writing, goes beyond what is necessary or justified by the plot in violence and it's depictions, has gameplay that is easily bettered by dozens of other games this generation, has an ending that I found illogical, unsatisfying and disrespectful to Joel, Ellie and myself as a player and fan of the original and lacked any of the impact of the original. I also found it to just be a miserable experience overall to the point where I had no investment in the characters or the world and just wanted the entire thing to be over because it was so thoroughly miserable to play. Now that is my point of view. I give the game a 0/10. Even graphically there are better games on PS4. Now someone else my disagree and say the game is a 10/10. Which one of us is right? The answer is neither because both opinions are our point of view. It is how we have interpreted the game.

I never said you weren't the judge and jury of how you feel. I said you weren't the judge and jury of deciding how people use rating systems. There is a difference. You can feel whatever you want. But you don't get to decide whose opinions are valid and whose aren't.

@Ralizah There’s about a 99% chance that the ones spamming 0/10 are the same people who go on about ‘free speech’ and ‘the SJW leftist agenda’. They were always going to give the game a bad review regardless of if it was good or not and I really doubt any of them have even played it. Despite what some may say about critics being ‘paid off’ and the like, it’s fairly obvious that user reviews are far easier to influence even from just this one example. What’s extra ironic is that while they were saying “go woke, go broke”, them spamming those user reviews has just brought more attention to the game, especially considering how unreasonable they are, and will probably result in more sales.

@themcnoisy Yeah, I stopped scoring games in my personal reviews. On one hand, games can do some things incredibly well, and others poorly: is Zelda: Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game because of its mostly unprecedented approach to open world game design, or a 5/10 because of its lackluster bosses and poor enemy variety? I guess you could average those out, but going with a middling score for a game that's brilliant and terrible in different respects feels like a disservice. Additionally, I don't think traditional scoring systems are built to handle games like TLOU Part II that want to inflict emotional distress on the audience, that are designed to deliberately not please the audience, even if they maintain a high level of technical excellence. Or games like EDF that, looked at dispassionately, are probably rubbish, but that give the audience what they want and never set their scope any higher. I don't think the same system can fairly accommodate both "art in spite of the audience" games along with crowd-pleasers that are unconcerned with pushing technical or artistic boundaries. It's like throwing Un Chien Andalou and Beverly Hills Chihuahua on the same scale.

@nessisonett The savvier trolls go for slightly higher review scores and lightly copy-paste or parrot criticisms they've read elsewhere on the internet. The majority go for the low-hanging fruit, though: 0/10 reviews accompanied by word vomit complaining about "SJWs" and "cucks."

Angry gamer nerds are their own worst enemy, and they never seem to learn that, whether it's Naughty Dog, Game Freak, Anita Sarkeesian, etc. they're doing themselves a disservice by relentlessly moaning about and/or harrassing people or developers they feel are wronging them somehow.

@Ralizah Hahahaha, Un Chien Andalou might be one of the most influential pieces of absurdist media but does it feature some cute dog-on-dog action? I think not 😂😂😂

You should have both or none.

It is idiotic to stop one or the other. Also those game critics don't even play the games. They are advertisement for the games.

The only thing missing is some moderation. A review must be well written not "10/10 very bold and amazing game" or "0/10 absolute trash!".

@Zuljaras Literally name a single professional critic who makes money out of reviews that short and lazy? It’s very easy for people to sit on their arse and criticise sites for not agreeing with them but any writer on this site will tell you that there’s a level of professional integrity when it comes to writing reviews that the readers just don’t get.

@Zuljaras

That reminds me: it kind of disturbs me when I hear about developers getting bonuses if their game hits a certain metacritic score. There are SO many things wrong with that.

@nessisonett

Kudos, my friend. I can safely say the phrase "cute dog-on-dog action" is not one I expected to read today! But that's the internet for you.

@TheDude89

Everyone has to take responsibility for the viewpoints and opinions they decide to lend credence to. That's part of what it means to be both an adult and a responsible citizen.

I mean, you can say "this game is a 0/10," but unless that game is fundamentally broken somehow, you're just exposing your own lack of consideration on this topic. Do you seriously think TLOU Part II is as bad as something like Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing, a game that barely even works?

I'm not saying you can't have your opinion. You obviously can. But I think, insofar as you're adopting an unreasonable conclusion in order to reflect your own disappointment in the game, you're merely giving other people a reason to disregard your words.

Saying a game deserves a 0/10 means you think it's one of the worst games ever made. And even if every complaint you made about the game was valid, I think you'd have an exceptionally difficult time justifying that opinion.

A game can be "not good" and still not be the worst thing ever.

Well, no: whoever administrates metacritic is the "judge and jury" of how people get to use their rating system. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have the ability to disappear people whose opinions I think are silly or baseless.

You seem to be demanding that people here attribute some level of legitimacy to 0/10 scores from review bombers, and we're under no legal, ethical, or even rational obligation to do so

@nessisonett Every critic that gives ANY game a 10/10 or 0/10 is not a professional.

Also do you remember Mass Effect Andromeda IGN review that praised its facial animations? The same thing that the game is know to suck for.

And as @Ralizah said that devs get bonuses for Metacritic scores so they definitely have some kind of trading with them to achieve that perfect score that should NOT exist.

Also the opinion of a random YouTuber that you can see play the game and then give it score after that like The Completionist, is way more valuable than some critic that you stands behind the name of a company.

Those people know what they are talking about.

@Ralizah I am not defending review bombers. You and many others however have been refusing to accept that TLoU PtII is anything but perfect and have been discrediting anyone who disagrees with you. You have been unreasonable towards anyone who doesn't share your opinion. People have every right to give it a 0/10 if that is what they feel it deserves. It is only your opinion that such a thing is wrong.

@KratosMD This is an internet forum. I could write a thousand word essay on the game and go into great detail about it's numerous failings from a writing standpoint alone but I don't think PushSquare forums is the right place. If you thought a forum post was a review that's your mistake.

@TheDude89 Nah come on, you and a few others have come on this forum specifically to start trouble and spout the same few lines over and over and over again. I’ve had my disagreements with @Ralizah, we all have, but they have always been respectful so for you to come here and start attacking individual members who’ve been here for ages? That’s just not on.

@Ralizah
A very well written comment there, I do commend you for your patience. Sadly I think you could be trying to explain that the sun is hot at this point and regardless of how well you articulate the point, there will be no movement here. Certainly not any time soon anyway, sometimes people have to reach the logical conclusion on their own.

@TheDude89 "You and many others however have been refusing to accept that TLoU PtII is anything but perfect and have been discrediting anyone who disagrees with you."

If that's your take of @Ralizah's comment, then you didn't read a single line of their comment. That's too bad. Very ironic you call them "unreasonable".

I'm going to challenge you: show me the one line where Ralizah says TLOU2 is perfect. If you can, I'll apologize to you. If you can't, then please apologize to Ralizah.

@TheDude89 My wife who is boss but doesn't play console games would score the vast majority of games 0/10. She quite enjoyed Frozen snowball fight though.

As for an actual real life sensible and savvy person who is judging a game on its various features and mechanics. A game developed with indepth knowledge, skill and care won't ever be the worst thing ever in contrast to barrel scraping garbage filler developed by amateurs with little to no integrity. Ie) Asset swaps and blatant ripoffs. I personally dislike The Witcher 3, its not for me, not my cup of tea. But for all of my distaste and preference for fiction of the science variety, it still retains a plethora of charming features which would certainly appeal on another day to another person. So by offering my paltry 3/10 skewed and introverted denomination is not a validated descriptor of what The Witcher 3 entails. So no giving the TLOU 2 - 0/10 is both devious and pathetic, a lack of intelligence straddles the intertubes. Imbeciles with no life, a keyboard and frothed saliva lips coordinating in a tragicly moronic scheme to vilify a unique experience. Again it may not be your favourite game, you may even turn it off after 20 minutes. But as reviewer your role is not a personal egotistical reflection of how negatively fine tuned your dwindling social personality is, rather to give an honest appraisal of the end user experience.

@themcnoisy Is there a reason you have chosen to personally insult me? Unless you have personally met everyone leaving a negative review your comment is just childishly insulting. There is no grand conspiracy by xbox fans or far right extremists to target this game. Some people don't like, some hate it. Hence they leave a score of 0/10. Other people love it and give it a 10/10. I don't see why you feel the need to be so aggressive or start throwing personal insults around. Do you even realize your own hypocrisy by doing so?

@KratosMD I could handpick an in-depth review to counter your's. Picking one review doesn't validate your argument. The reason I said PushSquare was not the right place was because of how toxic and vile some of the comments were to people who criticised the game, such as themcnoisy above me. I didn't see any point in writing a review here when the very site cannot maintain any sort of integrity by posting an article denouncing any and all negative reviews as fake, bots, trolls or bigots. Also I was not pushing my opinion I was doing the exact same thing you were, expressing my opinion. It's what happens in a conversation.

@nessisonnet At what point have I done something that qualifies as an 'attack'? Please give a specific example of how I have done something violent and aggressive. Do you have evidence to back up that 99% or do you get a free pass? And no, I didn't come on this forum to start trouble. I've been visiting this website and forum for around three years. The whole point of a forum is to have a dialog, a conversation is it not?

I have not attacked anyone, I have remained polite and simply expressed my opinion which is that not every bad review is the work of a troll or a bot and that there are justified criticism's of TLoU Pt II. I will say no more and go to another website and forum as clearly this is not the place for welcoming new people or having an open mind.

@TheDude89

I think it's one thing to say "TLoU Part II isn't perfect" and another to say "TLoU Part II is one of the worst games ever made." Not even being a fan of this franchise, I'm fairly certain I'd find a lot to criticize in the game. But there's no real argument to be made that it's a 0/10, worst of the worst sort of game.

Recall that this conversation started BECAUSE you were laying into @ApostateMage for their OPINION that 0/10 user reviews aren't valid criticism.

You keep saying that, and like I keep saying, nobody is threatening to throw review bombers in the gulag for giving the game 0/10 scores.

But saying something is "just an opinion" doesn't justify it or make it immune from criticism. And if you don't want your opinion critiqued, then not aggressively challenging someone else's freely stated opinion is probably a good place to start.

@TheDude89 The title of this here comment thread is;

'Is it time to ditch user reviews on Metacritic?'

Coming in I was on the fence, 50/50, glass half empty, glass half full, maybe, maybe not?

Reading your reasoning behind giving the Last of Us 2 a 0/10 then my personal answer is a resounding YES. If there is no compromise and it's either a zero or a ten with no room for negotiation then what exactly is the point? You may as well just have a like button instead.

@TheDude89 Lol, you didn't reply to me. So apparently you couldn't find any sentence to back up the incorrect claims you made about Ralizah, but you didn't have the guts to admit it either. :')

I thoroughly dislike numbered ratings of games because like all the things that seem to be going on in the world, they remove subtlety/nuance and write something off. Metacritic and other sites of its kind, across mediums, are slapping a value to something that ultimately, is unscientific and of very little help to the consumer.

I get that OK, if a game is overal scoring 50 ish reviews, across the reviewer and critic reviews, then yeah you can take a stab and make an assumption that the game is average. That is the only positive but overall, it is open to abuse. Take for example the Kotaku review of TLOU2, it acknowledges it is a good game but thematically and philosophically, they had issues with the violence. That is a very subjective opinion and one worth reading but does not translate into a score.

As @Ralizah mentioned above, Breath of the Wild is an interesting case in point. I think the game is amazing, creative, inventive and very unique in the open world genre. I also have some things I think aren't perfect with the game - combat, dungeons, stories etc. In a full review, I can give a well rounded opinion, describing why I still think it is an amazing game despite the problems I had with it. How do I score that though? Is it 10/10 because it is so original and unique in many ways or do I say, well 7/10 because these elements spoiled it? Is a 7/10 good or average?

Same with TLOU2 - I am very early in and think it is a incredibly well executed game. Do I like the story (don't know yet) but if I don't how do I score that game? A well made, beautiful creative endeavour where the story doesn't resonate to me personally. Again, is that a 10/10 or a 5/10 on something very objective?

These are things that can come across in a review but cannot in a score. If I say 10/10 I'm an apologist and in on it with Sony, if I say 6/10 I am being too harsh and doing it for attention.

I say, if you are ever looking at reviews, read lots, pick out the trends. If someone likes a story and another reviewer doesn't, you know that there is a risk it is divisive. If everyone loves a game but one reviewer critiques something that you will find annoying (cough weapon degridation cough), you need to bear that in mind.

This isn't even getting into the realms of people breaking the system by not giving well thought out reviews and adding ridiculous numbers, either way to make a point or just abuse the system.

Oh and all opnions are not equal as not all professional reviews are. Some professional reviews are not balanced, have been stolen, had an agenda and those are bad reviews. They should be called out. Some yahoo who has watched a let's play on Youtube and posts SJW trash in metacritic does not have an equal opnion with someone who has played a game fully and gives balanced reasons why they scored the game.

Sorry rant over.

User scores, especially on Metacritic, have been a joke forever. I don't even bother looking at that part of the screen when I visit that site.

I have found reviews written by users on both here and metacritic to be both informative and useful. Just looking at a number for positive or negative isn’t particularly useful. Have you written by someone whose judgement you trust is most helpful. A well written review by a random person can contain useful information but if you don’t know the scoring system that are using the number at the end isn’t particularly useful.