@RogerRoger Have you heard the theory that the reason for the sequels being such an unmitigated disaster is that "The Force Awakens" was a reaction to the prequels, "The Last Jedi" was a reaction to "The Force Awakens" and "The Rise of Skywalker" was a reaction to "The Last Jedi"? That seems to sum it up perfectly. I'm so pleased to hear they might adapt the Thrawn story but with different principals - that sounds like an entirely less creepy proposition to me.
@RogerRoger That’s a good list, and one that I mostly agree with. I’ve not consumed everything on it, but of the shows and games I’ve experienced, I’m of the same mind.
And I echo the sentiment that rewatching the sequel trilogy with lower expectations has also made them more of a pleasant experience. I really need to rewatch Rise of Skywalker. I think I’ve only watched it once or twice and I’m due to a refresher. But I think more importantly I need to get Book of Boba started. I’m embarrassed that I haven’t even started that. Maybe this weekend… if I can pull myself away from The Last of Us Part II.
But I like your thought process on how the franchise came to this point. It is a fascinating experiment with allowing “the lunatics to run the asylum” as you fittingly term it. For as genius as Lucas was/is, he is just one man and his vision only went so far. It makes me ponder the Harry Potter universe, given it’s on my mind due to the recent Hogwarts game preview and the imminent release of the third Fantastic Beasts movie. I see a replication brewing and it all feels so familiar:
One person authors a novel new fictional universe of stories surrounding generational characters and a clever new setting with intricate emblematic lore which becomes popular and culture defining —> multiple movies/books are created around said world and characters under the original authors close obsessive direction and control —> as time goes by, the original creator tries to recapture interest by writing prequels to set up the popular legacy titles —> the prequels anger many longtime fans of the franchise —> and then, …?
So in the case of Star Wars the IP is sold and then the deluge of fan-created fiction takes over and the content is all over the map as far as quality and reception, with a heavy reliance on drawing from the nostalgia well.
In the case of Harry Potter, I suspect this third Fantastic Beasts will disappoint, the fandom will continue to grow restless, and then Rowling will feel pressure to sell the IP to Disney and we’ll start seeing HP shows on Disney+, a new sequel where Harry’s son will have to save the wizarding world like his dad, culminated by some bizarre resurrection of Voldemort, HP action figures will line the store shelves even in greater abundance, and the fan base will fracture more and more.
It’s so predictable. 😜
Anyways, not to derail the thread with talk of a different franchise, but only to say that I think Star Wars and the ‘legacy vs modern’ schism of the fanbase is not really a unique phenomenon, as you all pointed out with Star Trek, I guess.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@LN78 I don't think that's a theory, I think that's a cold, hard fact. There are numerous press clips floating around in which JJ Abrams argues with interviewers and acts all petulant whenever the prequels are mentioned, and it shows in his work, almost as much as the blatant dismantlement of The Last Jedi he hastily returned to enact in The Rise of Skywalker. It's always been a reactionary trilogy, no matter what the executives say. Have you seen the original script for Colin Trevorrow's Star Wars: Episode IX - Duel of the Fates, perchance? Can't recall if we've discussed it before, but it would've been an infinitely more interesting and respectful movie, as well as a more rounded conclusion to the whole saga. Whether it would've been better than what we got, well... guess we'll never know.
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@Th3solution From what I gather, The Last of Us, Part II can get pretty engrossing, so I don't blame you for sticking with it during your free time! Boba Fett isn't going anywhere, and it's likely the next thing that'll reference it will be Mando Season Three, which isn't due out 'til Christmas. That being said, I'm real keen to see what you think about Boba Fett (but no pressure)!
Your breakdown of what seems to be becoming "a standard franchise life cycle" is impressive in how many direct parallels it draws. With some minor tweaks or anomalies, that could apply to several other large multimedia brands, I reckon. It's gonna be real interesting to see how The Wizarding World franchise (as I believe it's called now?) evolves over time, particularly considering how some of the pressures on it and its creator are different. History does like to repeat itself, though! Am entirely convinced that J.K. Rowling will sell up someday, perhaps sooner than we think, and that such action will be seen by the new owners as a chance to expand the brand without her divisive involvement. You joke about Disney acquiring it and making those familiar-sounding future projects, but when it happens...!!
Everything's generational. We're starting to see it in videogames as well, now that the medium's been around long enough. Fortnite is very different from what got you and I hooked on gaming, but then my parents frequently expressed astonishment at my ability to "keep track of everything going on" whenever they saw me playing PSone and PS2 games, even the relatively sedate ones, because it was a smidge more complex than Pong, Space Invaders and the other titles they'd played in their youth.
Anyway, to further answer your previous post, there is one element that Disney have gotten 100% right in all of this, and it's arguably the most important element of all.
In the enthralling documentary Episode I: The Beginning, there's a moment where George Lucas is in a meeting with ILM's visual effects supervisors, and he quips, "Remember, in the end, you're not looking at the background. You're not watching [the action]. You're listening to the music."
Joke or no joke, he ain't wrong.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Yeah I think we might have touched on the Treverrow script before. I haven't read it in its entirety but I know the general thrust of it and I feel confident in saying it would've been better than what we ended up with - purely because it would've been impossible to make anything worse. Did it (the Treverrow script) get abandoned because Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy refused to reshoot the ending of "TLJ" to accommodate for the untimely passing of Carrie Fisher? I seem to recall reading something along those lines but it could just have been more hate fuel for the "TLJ" bonfire. Like you I rewatched that film again recently (in 3D no less) and it's probably the best film in that trilogy.- which isn't exactly high praise but at least it was trying something a bit different which I suppose should be applauded, quietly so nobody notices.
@LN78 Some of its ideas sounded excellent to me, although the proof would've been in the execution, and if he wasn't receiving the right executive support then perhaps Mr. Trevorrow knew that it would've all fallen apart anyway. I think there's a lot we don't know about his departure. I've heard the same rumour about that reshoot, but I've also heard that it was simply a good ol' fashioned case of cold feet, because Duel of the Fates would've directly continued running with The Last Jedi and doubled down on some of its developments, rather than shrugging it off and almost starting over. Solo bombing at the box office didn't help, either. The damage its failure caused at the executive level cannot be overstated.
So I'd place The Rise of Skywalker a teensy bit above The Last Jedi, but it's for entirely superficial reasons (my favourite classic hero is Lando, and my all-time favourite villain, and second-favourite Star Wars character overall, is Palpatine). Expose it to any measure of critical analysis and it disappears up its own backside, but it works as a popcorn rollercoaster. The Last Jedi is much more cohesive, and successfully forms its own identity, but I'm lacking that extra spark of a connection to its legacy, and some of its key moments will forever be inexcusably bone-headed.
I'll bet the 3D was a thrill, though! That'd bring back fond memories of Disneyland's Star Tours.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Please, under no circumstances whatsoever construe what I wrote in my last post as evidence of my thinking that "The Last Jedi" is any way a good film. Because I don't and it's not. It's just not (in my opinion) as redundant (artistically speaking) as the other two.
@LN78 No worries, glad I could help! And thanks for sharing your shot of Boba there, too! He's brilliant, and the detail is perfect at that scale, too. I'm always on the fence about figures wearing clothes made from actual fabric, as they often look a little odd, but his flight suit looks perfect!
Also loving that Return of the Jedi poster!
Did he come with an alternate head? I only ask because the face sculpts can be frighteningly realistic. I have a Batfleck and in certain light, his likeness is scary.
Dug out some shots of my own, from back when I first got 'em.
It's just these two for now, but hopefully the others I've got on order won't be much longer.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger There's an alternate armour set but there isn't a face sculpt as it's based on "The Empire Strikes Back" so nobody knew what he looked like under the helmet at that point. I love how you've posed your clone trooper (or is it a Mandalorian of some kind? Forgive my ignorance) with the extra bobbins down at the bottom. I wanted to do something a bit more adventurous with mine but being a Hot Toys noob I'm not exactly sure how robust the joints/articulation points are and I really don't want anything to snap off! I've got one of the traditional sized Kenner battle droids on the flying thingy that came out as a preview of the toy line before "The Phantom Menace" released still in the box but unfortunately the plastic window on the front got damaged in my last house move.
@LN78 Ah, of course! There are so many variants of Boba out there that I forget which is which but you're right, you had said that yours was the special anniversary edition, so that tracks.
Thanks; don't worry, it took me forever to nervously get Wolffe (a Clone commander, so you were right the first time) into that pose, for the same reasons you've kept Boba fairly formal. My first Hot Toys figure was that aforementioned Batfleck and I've never been brave enough to pose him beyond "standing" because his armour would just get distorted and wrecked in places. It really does depend on the character, I think. Even with Wolffe up there, I felt like I was pushing my luck with some of his joints, and had to hold back. You've done well with Boba there, though; that resting pose really does capture his Empire presence!
And yeah, I remember that preview figure! Tore mine out of the box right away. Sorry to hear yours got damaged but, if it helps, I don't think they ever became the most valuable collector's item...?
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger I wasn't too concerned about it from the value point of view. Apart from the first "Episode I" teaser poster (the Anakin casting Vader's shadow image which I absolutely love) it's (perhaps unsurprisingly) the only bit of original prequel merch that I've got - but putting it on a shelf with my other "Star Wars" bits with a massive rip in the front just isn't going to fly - it would drive me bonkers.
@LN78 That teaser poster you mention is one of the single greatest marketing images ever created, regardless of one's own opinion on the movie itself (as you demonstrate). I also quite liked the attempt to replicate it for Revenge of the Sith, when the teaser poster had Anakin's robes flowing up to create a bizarre take on Vader's mask, but it's nowhere near as simple or effective.
And agreed, I'd be the same. Some of my stuff has taken the odd knock over the years, and I never fail to notice each and every imperfection as I walk past. It's a curse!
Forgive the random question, but have you ever played Star Wars: Lethal Alliance on PSP before? I only ask because I reckon it's one of the most overlooked Star Wars games ever made, either due to its unremarkable gameplay or the fact that the PSP wasn't a barnstorming success, but I'm always surprised by how much I want to like it whenever I pick it back up (which I've just done). It's an odd little curiosity of a thing. If you reply with a "yes" then I reckon you'd be the only other player of it that I've met, at least virtually!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Regret to inform that not only have I never played the game you mentioned (I owned a PSP very briefly when it first came out but I left it on a train!) but this is the first I've heard of it. I think the most obscure "Star Wars" title that I've played (and in fact still own) is "Masters of Teras Kasi" on the original PlayStation. "Warpath:Jurassic Park" is worse but only just.
@nessisonett Well, there we are, then. You randomly found it by accident, and because somebody else had traded it in, and you haven't played it yet. Says it all, really!
Honestly, I did think you might be my only other hope, given some of the other obscure retro and handheld games you've namedropped before. Really not sure whether to encourage you to play Lethal Alliance or to warn you about it, as it's such a weird little game!
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@LN78 As the man himself would grow up to say, "Impressive. Most impressive."
Yikes, sorry to hear about your PSP's fate! Although you'll be pleased to know that you're not the only person who's endured Warpath: Jurassic Park. I knew of its reputation from back in the day, and got a friend a copy as a gag gift once. Wasn't so funny when he turned around and made me play it with him!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger I've just seen that the new LEGO game has an awesome Han frozen in Carbonite steelbook. I really want one to display with my Boba Fett figure but I doubt I'll be very keen on the game itself. Curses.
@LN78 Bonus steelbooks sometimes pop up on eBay for a tenner, especially after people order a special edition of a game without realising. There'll also be scalpers who'll deliberately order a special edition to flip the extras, but they tend to charge a little more.
A big part of me wants to say "you can have mine for free" but the luck balance of the universe always seems to smash up my steelbooks, so there's no guarantee it'll arrive in one piece!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
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