Topic: Returnal

Something that I see happening a lot, by the way, in the broader game discourse, is people conflating beating a game and enjoying a game. Maybe it's the trophy hunter mentality, or has something to do with a society focused on "winning".

They're not the same. I have actually never beaten some of my favorite games - especially older ones. It doesn't even matter if it's my fault for being not skilled enough or the game's fault for being too hard or unbalanced, or maybe it's just me deciding one day 'I've seen enough'.

I never beat Paper Mario 2. I enjoyed most of the game, but back in '04 I wasn't able to down the final boss. The game is still one of the best games ever, and my time with it was well spent.

Resogun is a great game, and I never made it really far in that game. Still I enjoy playing those first few stages, even over and over.
I think such a mentality can help with a game like this too. The game might be too difficult to beat for anyone who starts playing. And if you care about winning too much, you'll grow frustrated. But if you start enjoying every room, every battle, as a great arcade shooter, you might have fun.

@MaulTsir The respawning “flying bomb fish” enemies can be a god send in B6 if you have an ability to regain health when you deal damage though!

The worst enemies are the ones that cause malfunctions as one bad moment can absolutely scupper your run.

Also, the boss in B6 does often drop health at the end of phase 2 so be sure to keep an eye out for it as it might be behind you (and might be the thing that gets you through).

After breezing through phase 1 in the tower, I have since struggled to make much progress in phase 2. Oh how very Returnal of you. However, I did make a bit more just now and obtained one of the new weapons. Then died in the next room before I got to use it. 😆

I can only do 1 or 2 runs a day seeing as you start from the very beginning, so no shortcuts to the other phases as far as I can tell.

@MaulTsir Great work, boss! You’ve really made short work of the game overall. I’m so glad you’re enjoying it. It’s a special game.

As a possible tactic — don’t forget that sometimes you can run through a room and past an enemy. I know that a few of my runs on B6 I just sprinted past that really hard brute guy to the next room and depending on how your run is going it may not be worth the pickups. There’s a couple really intense rooms there and fortunately (unlike earlier biomes) you aren’t always locked into sticking around. 😄

Edit: oh, and also the B6 suicide bomber fish guys that constantly respawn is an awesome place to camp out and just quickly spam them to level up your weapons to acquire new traits. You can do it really quickly there.

Also, I’m sure you’ve learned - trying to use the dreadbound in B6 is like having a death wish 😂. It’s one of my favorite weapons but it’s useless there.

How are you liking the narrative so far? It’s pretty wild, huh?

@Thrillho @MaulTsir The boss doesn’t actually drop health pickups. The health is hidden in some of those breakable plant-like thingies towards the back of the arena. Pretty sure it’s always there.

@Kidfried oh definitely each Biome brought more challenges that made me feel it was worse than the next, but by worse I ultimately mean better! Like in B6 that Gorilla Octopus guy who has more moves than an 80's disco dancer with a perm and a tash was an absolute nightmare, he was actually worse than most bosses for me!

@Thrillho @Voltan I managed to beat the Biome 6 boss on my 2nd attempt and on my first attempt a health resin appeared on the 2nd phase but on my second attempt I stayed to to side as much as possible and one never dropped and I will say when it did appear it was where @Voltan said but I'm honestly unsure if it's there all the time or if it's an actual boss drop.

@Th3solution I defeated Biome 6 and honestly thought for a quick second that was it! My disappointment at such am abrupt ending was quickly washed away when I realised there was more lol. So after a bit of quick research and now I'm back on the hunt!.

I actually did just run past alot of stuff on my way to the boss in B6 because I died a few times attempting to clear out all of them I just thought I'd make a temple run attempt and luckily it worked! I just farmed out until I had enough upgrades and a weapon that I felt would get me through the boss fight and ran through the last 4 or so rooms! Although one of those bloody Octopus guys that sprays Malfunctions at you chased me until I got to the boss door, my heart was racing 🤣

Yeah I've tried to experiment with all the weapons I've found and atleast give them a room or 2 before I dropped them again but the carbine and the hollowseeker just seemed to work so well overall I mainly have kept to them.

It's a crazy game and to be honest it's not massively story driven but at the same time it gives you just enough of the puzzle each time to make you want to keep solving the mystery.

I've enjoyed it way more than I thought I would and I love it when a game does that because I think it actually adds to the enjoyment.

We'll have to try squeeze a co-op session in!

@MaulTsir Glad to hear it! Great job!

Yeah, definitely finish Act 3. First of all, because you are enjoying the game so much, but secondly, because you do get a little more story that way and it’s a more satisfying ending that Act 2. It’s never exactly what you’d call a traditional storyline though. You’ll see. And thirdly, Act 3 is surprisingly a shorter time commitment than you’d think. I won’t go into detail for risk of spoilers but at this stage with your skill you can really plow through it fairly quickly if you want to.

I do get the itch to get back into it and so I’d be really interested to do co-op. Life is still unpredictable on my end so we’ll have to see.

Reckon you’ll go for the plat?

@MaulTsir Massive congratulations, and I'd highly recommend you carry on to complete Act 3.... make sure you drink in all that this game has to offer (!)

As @Th3solution says, the conclusion to 'Act 3' offers some far more satisfying closure the narrative - and gives you more insight as to what is actually going on with Selene.

Quite funny that your story with this game is basically nearly the same as everyone else on this forum:

• Stage 1: Frustration beyond belief.
• Stage 2: Road-block on Boss 'X', can't believe you'll ever beat it.
• Stage 3: Finally beat Boss 'X', confidence grows and enjoyment kicks in.
• Stage 4: End up loving the game, pushing through Act 3.
• Stage 5: Platinum ambition...!

The Tower DLC, and trophy roadmap, is pretty decent also

@Th3solution @CJD87 Thanks guys, I'm making good progress. just 2 more sun fragments to go and then I can do the last few bits

I'm just enjoying going through all the different phases and exploring as much as I can, I sort of feel like I don't want the game to end which is not normal for me as I'm in such a rush usually because of my backlog so I'm just trying to get as much as I can out of the game before I move on.

That's why I'll probably jump into the DLC pretty much straight away. As for the plat I'll likely be pretty close by the time I'm finished I think I have about 20 out of 33 already so I will consider it along as it doesn't impact on my enjoyment of the game which I doubt it will lol.

Your road map is pretty much spot on CJD, and I think that overcoming your major road block is one of the main factors in how you see the game because I can see how getting stuck for along time would be frustrating, especially if you've had a long run and it all gets wiped because of a stubborn enemy (which happened to me a lot 🤣).

@MaulTsir I felt the exact same way after I had finished the game, so I powered through to get the platinum. The last few ciphers were a pain, and I almost gave up on a couple of occasions!

@JohnnyShoulder I actually have alot of the ciphers I checked and I have them all for B1 and 2 and 3, 4 and 6 I nearly have them all completed, although I don't have many for B5 which is actually the one I least like being in lol. But I know when it comes to the final few I'll have a nightmare finding them lol.

I know I have to do those gold rooms as well but I've managed to smash a few out last night.

@MaulTsir That is roughly where I was at when I had finished the story. Good luck, and hopefully the rng gods are smiling at you!

@MaulTsir B2 ciphers were the bane of my existence... and this is the case for many players. So if you already have all the B2 ciphers, then you are in great shape mate.

Go get that Plat!!!

@Kidfried The game could and would have been a challenge if it was simply a normal game and erased the silly demons souls/returnal loop function. I could have played it, finished it eventually and enjoyed it. Then replayed it, most likely more than a few times.

But instead I spent hours getting nowhere. Being frustrated at rng deaths and dying instantly to new and op enemy types I hadn't encountered after a two hour run. And stillno progress was made. The perma upgrades were so insignificant as to not be any real value. I never felt like I was getting anywhere. And the length of time each run took simply to get back to teh last point you died was frustrating. Here, let's go through this ENTIRE THING again, to get back tothe really hard part where you died, only to die at that part again. After a two hour slog to get to it. Every single time.

That's not good game design, it's the devs thinking they are clever and not respecting players time. And when you find out what the actual story is, what a joke.

@Jammsbro Like I said, some players, like me, did admire that about the game. The devs could have made the game different and more like you would want, but then I would have probably liked the game less.

So it's not about the devs making a mistake, or "devs thinking they are clever", but it's a design choice they made that will please some players and others less so.

It's unfortunate that the game was ultimately a letdown for you. I can't and won't even try to change your mind, because the gameplay is polarizing. I think the gorgeous graphics and horror vibes might have given many the bad impression that this was a narrative focused game. It's not, it's a great arcade shooter with a huge budget. But it's still an arcade game.

@Kidfried The problem is that it's just too much time to redo yet another run and to get maybe a 60 second attempt to bea the thing you died to three times before. An hour or more more just to get to it. I've read on reddit plenty of people doing two and a half hour runs just to die in less than a minute in a fight and then have to restart and do another two and a half hours to try again.
The basic mechanic of losing everything? Yes, I get it, but the runs are too long. Repeated too many times. And it's not like demons souls where you can memorise the levels, I lost a 90 minute run because I was in a room with a titanops, the purple bats and so much fog that when evading I ran off a ledge and fell to my death. I spent 90 minutes just getting to biome 2 and died in seconds when two severed double teamed me and I was insta killed. It's a poor design choice. Had it been a normal save system I would have already finished the game and restarted it. As it is, I'll never play it again. Which is sad because the moment to moment play is fantastic.

Act 3 done!! Wow what a game.

I've had an absolute blast with this game and I didn't expect to enjoy it any where near as much, never been a big fan of the rouge-like experience but this was implemented so well that (even though I know it won't be for everyone) it's hard not to like it.

I have a few trophies to go there all the exploration trophies but I have nearly all ciphers and there's the full proficiency one that keeps alluding me I've got to 29 most times in the Abyssal Scar but then I run out of enemies! So hopefully I can get the plat and then give the DLC a go.

@MaulTsir Well done on getting through act 3 in quick order and great to hear you have enjoyed and are still enjoying the game up to this point. Hopefully those last ciphers won't allude you for too long but be prepared to have to do quite a few runs just to get those.

It depends which ones you need but sometimes it's best to check out some YouTube videos of all the cipher locations to see which rooms you don't recognise so that you can be sure you don't miss them. With some of them you can take shortcuts e.g. some in B2 are on the top section of the mountain so you can just skip through from the teleporter at the entrance and then backtrack.

Also for that proficiency trophy the best way to get that is in Abyssal Scar by locating one of those shielded squid things that infinitely spawns baby squids and just keep shooting the baby ones until you've popped it.

@MaulTsir Sounds like the Platinum is now 100% on the cards, and well done! When I got the stage you're at now, I decided to limit myself to 1 or 2 runs per day maximum... so as not to burn out.
The RNG can be a bit of a killer when it comes to Cipher hunting - and @render is totally right in that Youtube videos will be a great aid. Best of luck man, just a matter of time now

@Jammsbro sorry (and somewhat sad!) to hear that Returnal didn't click for you. I personally loved this game, and it was easily my own GOTY for 2021.... but equally I can appreciate why others may not be so enthralled by it.
I certainly don't think you're alone in your views, and I suppose the important thing is that you 'gave it a go'! I think Returnal's addition to PS+ Extra has hopefully broadened its appeal & reach. Whilst I'd be very hesitant to recommend anyone to outright 'purchase' the game individually, I'd 100% push for any PS+Extra subscribers to at least give it a go.
(On a personal level, my only real bone of contention with the game was that there was NO suspend feature from Day #! I'm glad this is now patched in, but IMO it was borderline obnoxious not having this from the start ha)

Gaming & tastes relating are always an interesting topic. I know for many that Resident Evil Village was an incredible experience, but I honestly still can't click with this!

@MaulTsir Congrats, buddy! Really glad you have enjoyed it. Hopefully that platinum is right around the corner.

@CJD87 I echo your thoughts about the lack of an actual suspend feature being the games biggest wart. Since I played it and completed it at launch, I haven’t even experienced the ability to save a run that they patched in later. I used the PS5 rest mode a few times, but I never really trusted that. So I’d just power through a run and make sure that I had a solid 3 hours of free time whenever I booted up the game. 😅

And interesting that you mention RE Village, as I’m playing RE4 now (a game frequently compared to Village) and although I’m mostly enjoying it I’m also scratching my head about why the game is so lauded.