@Kidfried Can't wait to see what you make of the DLC. There's a comment I really wanna make, but am gonna sit on my hands, so as not to spoil anything!
The fight against Silver is the best in the game, so that could be seen as a tiny bit of redemption. (Though really it isn't of course, I fought against 10000 male enemies and only 1 female. I really want to ask Insomniac about this.)
The way they address the whole Yuri situation is mind boggling and unsatisfying. Last side mission in the game, Yuri is killing criminals and Spidey says: "well,she shouldn't be doing this". End of mission. I get that maybe this is something that will return in a new game, but honestly a game should be great on its own. They already set up Norman, Miles, MJ's goodbye, and so much more. They didn't need to do more loose threads. This was hugely unsatisfying. And I rated the third DLC this low because of it.
The DLC was fine, but it was way too safe. DLC gives the developer some freedom to do something crazy. And I think the mafia setup was done wonderfully, and as good as the main game. But then it just became so safe. They should have added way more villains and weird characters and missions. Instead it all felt like the middle part of the main game... it was light on new stuff, and it lacked climax.
Anyway, I really liked this first DLC. And I'm interested in the Miles game even more than I was before, even though I'm not so sure about its VO.
Those who played Miles Morales, hoe did you like the acting?
@Kidfried The thing they were supposed to be setting up with Yuri was that because of all the cop killings that had been happening over the course of the DLC with Hammerhead and the members of Maggia and obviously Jefferson Davis' death, she slowly began to antagonize the police force and the justice system for not taking more matters into their hands and protecting the cops laying their lives on the line, so what was supposed to be happening was she was basically implying she was going the vigilante route to take care of that stuff herself
In the comics she adopts a persona known as Wraith using the equipment of other apprehended supervillains to kill criminals and basically do in her mind, what she thinks is right and what Spider-Man won't willingly do. I thought the execution was a bit haphazard in the game but it is likely meant to go somewhere
I believe Brian Michael Bendis adopted 2 black girls so it's obvious he was already creating characters like Miles Morales with the mindset of wanting people in the comics his kids could look up to as he stated in interviews but naming a black guy after a pretty famous American politician (who also died of malaria complications) happened to be a bit too on the nose lmao
@TheFrenchiestFry It’s hilariously on the nose. And considering what Jefferson Davis symbolises to this day, it’s a bit like having an Irish superhero called Oliver Cromwell.
@nessisonett I was actually in Downtown Toronto in like late August/early September because my parents and I wanted to tour a bit around the U of T campus and we actually for a brief moment on our way to lunch stopped to take a picture next to the vandalized Edgerton Ryerson statue due to his uncovered history with residential schooling for indigenous people lmao
@KidfriedYou kinda flying-rugby-tackle Screwball at the end of the third DLC, which I took as a rather satisfying consolation prize at the end of a challenging chase, but I do get your point.
Anywho, thanks for tagging me with your closing thoughts! Whilst I personally think you're being exceedingly harsh with those scores, I respect them and, in the context of your wider comments, can see why you've settled on them. Vive la différence. I do agree that the DLC contains a lot of sequel set-up, both for the game we now know about and the one yet to come. Whether that was its role or not is a matter of debate, especially since many people still skip DLC and are therefore missing out on crucial pieces of the puzzle. How they handle Yuri going forward is gonna be interesting, for sure.
For me, the DLC (taken as a whole) felt like a TV show spun off from the main game's movie. Not just by nature of being episodic, complete with its "to be continued" cliffhangers, but also just in narrative tone, style and atmosphere. It was obviously a little cheaper to make, but it spent more time fleshing out its characters, and actually helped me to like Silver Sable a lot more (still can't stand Black Cat, though, and was real disappointed when she didn't stay dead, no matter how obvious a fake-out).
I've started Miles Morales today, and think you'll be pleased with a couple of its tweaks. How come you have an issue with his voice actor? What about his performance aren't you sure about?
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Yes, I know it's quite harsh, compared to how others rates the game. I did have a lot of fun, and the gameplay mechanics were all there for me. A 7/10 is still good, just not essential gaming.
I might have been way more lenient if
1) I hadn't played Assassin's Creed Odyssey. That game was traumatizing.
2) I had kept my expectations in check. I both played LL and Days Gone these last few months. Both games I expected not to care too much about, and both shattered my expectations in every way. I expected Spider-Man to be even better, but I should been a bit more reserved.
And I'm super excited for Miles still, that hasn't changed.
With regards to the voice acting, I just really liked Peter's voice acting a lot. And in comparison Miles' performance felt a bit restraines. That was probably precisely the point with Miles being a bit more insecure, but I hope he's able to pull off a confident superhero as well.
@Kidfried Oh, I can only speak for myself. I'd never say "but everybody else rated it higher than you" and get that assigning a score (which is always a highly subjective process) is a personal thing. I'm grateful that you did, because it's always interesting to see how others measure greatness!
But yeah, in hindsight, I think Spidey was always gonna be the safest of those exclusives you recently played, given the additional stakeholder influence on the brand. It wasn't allowed to risk failure.
Maybe it was a deliberate restraint on Miles' part (given the effort put into the voice acting overall, it's the one game where such detail would've been considered; I still love how all of Peter's dialogue was recorded twice, and switched to delivery with extra exertion whenever you started swinging). For me thusfar, Miles' voice actor is batting a thousand as the star of his own game. I feel like I'm controlling a real person, just as much as (if not moreso than) Peter. It's amazing work. I'd stop short of calling it a definite upgrade over the previous game, but that's probably because I liked him before anyway. You might notice a difference!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Ah, that's already comforting, that as a fan of the character you appreciate the voice acting. I don't want to rush myself, and really enjoy returning to New York, so I'm going to take a small spider break.
Honestly as a pretty big Spider-Man fan maybe how I rate the game might be slightly overinflated given this game directly follows two pretty sub par movie tie ins and is the first wholly original open-world Spider-Man game since Web of Shadows
It's just that Spider-Man games even with their strong narratives and character adaptions, they've never done anything that felt this classy. It's literally on par narratively with some of Sony's best first party games, but it also happens to be based on a character and in a world that I'm super familiar with so I guess it makes it stand stronger as a game for me
@Kidfried Smart move. Even I took three days, which doesn't sound like a lot but was pretty excruciating for me, given how desperate I was to play Miles Morales over the weekend!
@TheFrenchiestFry Oh, I'm with you there. The feeling when something you love gets a genuinely great game cannot be overstated, particularly when it's something which has suffered with poor adaptations and lazy money-makers in the past. Spidey's back-catalogue has some proper clangers, so for him to become the poster boy for an entire generation's success must've been a huge relief for fans.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger I'm of the opinion that Spider-Man's game portfolio is honestly not as bad as a lot of people think. I honestly kind of roll my eyes when people say it's the best game since Spider-Man 2 (the movie tie in) since they probably ONLY played that game beforehand if anything. I personally thought Ultimate Spider-Man was the peak of open world Spider-Man before the PS4 game and Web of Shadows despite its all-over-the-place narrative had super tight gameplay and I loved the seamless switching between classic and Symbiote Spidey
With that being said, every hour I spent with this game I could just tell this was made by people who clearly understood not just how Spider-Man works, but also his supporting cast and even the wider Marvel Universe where it felt like his problems could spill onto the streets and into the eyes of other heroes and characters. In terms of adaptations it's probably the first one since maybe Spectacular Spider-Man that felt like a genuine labor of love for the character and his entire mythos without having to tie in to a movie or base its story on a particular comic concept that was overdone before like how every game after Spider-Man 3 had to use symbiotes for whatever reason
My complaints like how monotonous the MJ and Miles stealth sections were are only minor nitpicks that don't really dampen how well this game is paced. The only real bummer is that it's a PlayStation-only game because I genuinely felt bad for Xbox and PC people missing out on a licensed game this good after how mediocre and uneventful Amazing Spider-Man 2 was, and not even just the game either since the movie was a giant meh from me.
I sorely wish other Marvel characters got this kind of treatment when it came to games. I played Marvel's Avengers for a bit at launch and it really just made me want individual narrative driven games for all the characters, especially Hulk given how good Ultimate Destruction was
@TheFrenchiestFry Oh, I'm with you, absolutely. Playing through his entire back-catalogue (well, almost the entire back-catalogue) in such a short space of time, I was amazed by how high the quality often was, especially when compared to how other IPs have been handled over the years. It's just that, for every Shattered Dimensions (one of my personal highlights) there was a Web of Shadows: Amazing Allies Edition waiting to drag the average right back down. It also doesn't help that the last two games before Insomniac's arrival were, like you say, so painfully mediocre.
It makes Insomniac's extra effort so obvious, because their games often find those bits of detail that would've made previous games all-time classics. It also gives me faith that, after the post-credits tease clearly hinting at yet another symbiote storyline for the sequel, they'll handle things properly going forward, and that the series won't ever become anything less than a must-play. The money thrown at them by Sony can't hurt, either, as they really are the biggest of big-budget experiences.
Give it time for the others. I think Avengers was pushed forward because of the MCU's success, but I also think people will start to recognise Spidey's solo success in the coming years (exclusive or not) and that there'll be other projects put into development as a result.
***
@Kidfried Apologies for the shameless bit of self-promotion but, after our recent conversation, I thought I'd let you know that I've just written a review of Miles Morales and posted it over in the dedicated review topic. It contains some minor spoilers about the gameplay (but none about the story) but it's also rather gushing, so reading it might test your patience!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger See usually in Spider-Man games given how often you'd see something related to symbiotes pop up as a plot point or element in the plot, you'd imagine that there's the chance people could get fatigued by that given that they've been used in Spider-Man games since Spider-Man 2000 on the PS1, and especially after the movie tie in for Spider-Man 3 where they were literally the crux of 2 or 3 different games, but Insomniac's world and what they've built up is so compelling and made a strong first impression already, that the idea of them integrating more from the comic book mythos into future games feels exciting again, and the fact that it looks like Harry Osborn might actually embrace the symbiote this time instead of what's usually the case with Spider-Man games using Eddie Brock or some form of him is a clean break from tradition that I wasn't expecting
@TheFrenchiestFry The symbiotes were absent from the Amazing games as well, weren't they? I know the second one had a subplot involving Carnage but, from what I gather, it was kinda underbaked (in case it wasn't clear, I skipped both of the Amazing games in last year's marathon). And then before that, you had Anti-Venom as a hollow heavy in Edge of Time, so the last time they actually had anything important to do would've been Shattered Dimensions. Which was eleven years ago!
Insomniac definitely seem to be trying something new. I was properly shocked when I realised that it was Harry in the tank with Venom (or if not him, another symbiote at least) and can't wait to see how that's gonna impact things, especially with the backstory established in the first game.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger It was the first one in a while but there was a time period where virtually every game HAD to involve the symbiote out of obligation whether it be as a plot device or through actual characters
Spider-Man 2000 had Venom as a supporting character and Doctor Octopus getting the symbiote onto him, Ultimate Spider-Man had Venom as a playable character and was a continuation of the Venom storyline from the comics at that time (even though it's been retconned now), Spider-Man 3 was obviously based on the movie so both Venom and Black Suit Spidey were there, Web of Shadows was the same deal, Friend or Foe had Venom, Shattered Dimensions had Ultimate Spider-Man in the Black suit for the entire game, Edge of Time had Anti-Venom, Amazing Spider-Man 1 had the Raimi Black Suit as an unlockable, and TASM2 had Carnage as a subplot with Cletus being experimented on by Oscorp
I appreciate at least the shakeup with what Insomniac are doing when it comes to handling the symbiote in their universe and where that seems to be going, but it's honestly really funny how often they just keep coming back to that as a plot point
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