Topic: Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order

I'm sure someone already has a video up of them beating the final boss at lvl one, blindfolded and using a dancemat within 2 hours @JohnnyShoulder

Joking aside it at least has some Souls mechanics though I heard a lot of Uncharted comparisons as well of all things that honestly confused me!

I mean it seems to be going for the most accessible souls-ish/Souls"lite" game seeing as it has difficulty options and skill trees!

Don't look at me though for impressions... at least not for a good long while... I have pretty much no interest in the star wars franchise at the moment! 😅

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy I think I might be getting 'plays like dark souls' mixed up with 'has Darks Souls elements'. Which are obviously two diffenrent things. My bad, carry on!

@ellsworth004 All I can say is, well done for getting a ring on her! Hope you enjoy!

@JohnnyShoulder I mean, yeah, I'm just repeating what other people say at this point, and the name Dark Souls has been thrown about a lot. If you like, I could describe to you exactly how combat works, so you can make a judgement as to whether it is (or isn't) what you're looking for?

Plot predictions that I'm completely redacting; do not read if you're wanting to stay spoiler-free. I just wanna get this down somewhere so that I can either go "Ah-ha, I was right!" or, more likely, "Gosh darn it, I couldn't have been more wrong if I tried."

Right, give it a couple days and we'll see how wide of the mark I am.

@RogerRoger Oh yes please that would be most helpful if you wouldn't mind. I had very little interest in this game, but my ears pricked up when i heard what games it was being compared to. I suppose then only real way to tell is to play the damn thing myself! 😂 But I'm in no rush to buy it, but you feedback may push up the list a few places.

@RogerRoger Thanks for the tag. I’ve been anxious to hear about the game and it sounds like it’s turning out to be better than I expected. Wonderful. I’m tempted to buy it this weekend, but I’m knee deep with other distractions, but I’m now leaning more toward this first over Death Stranding. But both games really have captured my attention.

And just like @JohnnyShoulder I would be very curious to hear your description of the combat, movements, traversal, and strategies as a Dark Souls ... dare I say, virgin. It’s one thing to say it has Souls-like features, but it’s another for you to describe how the game plays to you. I’m not purely a Dark Souls virgin but I’m quite inexperienced in comparison to Johnny and @Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy . Okay, let me change metaphors before this gets out of hand. ... anyways - I played Bloodborne to bits but only a few hours of Dark Souls 1. So when someone says “Souls-like” then I have a very definite picture in my mind of how that would translate, which is a little bit at odds with what a Jedi ability laden character would do. Soulsborne combat is fairly defensive and tactical at times, with calculated movements and patience to not get overzealous and too aggressive or else you run out of stamina and leave yourself out there and ... boom, you’re dead. A large portion of failure in combat is because you get too greedy hacking away. So to me that doesn’t quite sound like a Jedi who can use the saber, the force, and has very nimble and athletic abilities.

@JohnnyShoulder Well, the Uncharted and Tomb Raider elements are exactly that; you run and jump at ledges with white paint on them, hang and swing from cables and vines, and clamber up rough surfaces by holding L2. You can also wall-run, which is a simple "jump at certain texture" mechanic.

Speaking of, I played a good forty minutes earlier which could've been lifted from Shadow of the Tomb Raider. Barely any enemies, big ancient puzzle to solve... epic stuff.

Anyway, combat.

Square swings your lightsaber. You'll either do this vaguely in the direction Cal is facing, or towards an enemy you've locked on to with R3 (and you can flick between targets using the same stick). They're slow, deliberate swings with very few flourishes.

L1 is block. You can either hold it down for a general "please don't hurt me" defence, or time it perfectly to parry your enemies. Enemies who are successfully parried are either stunned for a brief moment, allowing you to counter-attack, or are available to one-shot with a flashy finisher if their health and / or stamina is low enough. The timing is tricky to master, especially in a panic. There are no "Parry Now!" prompts or anything; you just have to read your opponent. If you miss the timing, or hold down block for too long, you'll drain your stamina meter and be exposed to all attacks.

Circle is dodge, allowing for a quick sidestep or, if you double-tap, a longer evasive roll. You can spam it to escape a crowd, or use it to score a hit on a lunging enemy. Some enemy attacks are unblockable (the enemy will glow red when this happens) meaning your only option is to dodge and hope for an opportunity to counter-attack, but this isn't always guaranteed; depends on the enemy type. I should say at this point that, thusfar, my kill count is about 50% Imperials and 50% crazy, creepy wildlife.

Defeating enemies restores your Force energy. Force powers are mapped to the trigger buttons and are given to you over the course of the story; I don't have them all yet, but they're useful in combat. Defeating enemies (as well as scanning items and technology on each planet, opening shortcuts, finding cosmetic collectibles and achieving certain objectives) also gives you XP towards Skill Points, to spend on your Skill Tree. Via the Skill Tree, you can unlock expanded lightsaber attacks, including a heavy attack mapped to triangle, as well as upgrades to your health, block and Force abilities.

Skill Points can only be spent at specific points dotted about the map, at which Cal will meditate. These are your save points; by stopping and meditating, you activate a checkpoint for if you die in combat (if you fall and die, you're immediately popped back to where you fell from, no penalty). Whilst meditating, you have the option to Rest. Doing so will respawn all of the enemies in your immediate vicinity, but will also refill your health meter and Stim-Pack injections (small health packs) carried by your droid, BD-1, who dispenses them any time you press up on the D-Pad; this is quite a lengthy animation, however, and can totally be interrupted by an enemy attack.

Should you fall in combat, all of your unspent Skill Points and XP will stay with the enemy that killed you, making them glow orange. Returning and defeating that enemy is the only way to regain your XP, otherwise it remains lost once you fall elsewhere, or leave the planet.

I think that's everything, but feel free to tag me with any other questions!

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@Th3solution You're in luck, I noticed your reply just as I was about to post the above! Hope it helps and don't worry; without wanting to spoil anything, there are a few story nods to indicate why Cal is a more deliberate Jedi, in terms of combat ability. I'm a huge fan of the backflipping ninja monks we saw in the prequel trilogy, but the game's approach to combat feels right and valid in the context of the storyline and its timeline placement in the whole saga.

There is a "Story" difficulty mode which makes the combat incredibly easy, and since there aren't any difficulty-related trophies I have a feeling I'll be playing at that level exclusively in future, as I'm not a fan of excessive challenge. For now, though, the default "Jedi Knight" difficulty is working for me.

@RogerRoger oh shes the best, all she does is work and treat me like gold(of course in turn i try to do the same for her)

But anyway, im not far into the game, but i hope ur enjoying it as much as i am. As star wars fans this is a game we have been needing for a long time. It just seems so fun so far. Im probably biased because of my love for star wars, but i really think this is a great game.

@RogerRoger Thank you! Very helpful explanation. The combat seemingly does have echoes of Soulsborne style and the loss of XP when you die and the recovery if you return to defeat the enemy who killed you - well that’s stripped straight from the series.

I have always felt the dramatic change in Jedi style and abilities from the original movies to the prequels was reasonable because Luke, Old Obi-Wan, and Vader were the last of a dying breed of Jedi so naturally they would not have the skill of the young Jedi at the peak of the order’s existence. So I can see how a narrative setting might change the abilities of the main character. Sounds like it’s a pretty cohesive package. I am pretty excited about the game after hearing your explanation. I’ve been putting off playing a Soulsborne game and was considering cranking up Nioh last week, but decided against it and now I’m glad because I think I’d rather play Fallen Order instead. Just not sure if that will be this week or a few weeks down the road.

@RogerRoger Thanks for posting your expansive impressions. I'm not keen on the whole unlocking of moves which seems to be the current vogue in third person action games (God of War, Tomb Raider, Spider-Man). I suppose it keeps things interesting and keep things from going stale. I find I can get by most of the time by using the basic move set introduced early in the game. Still that is a small concern and I still really enjoyed those previous mentioned games. My interest in this game has piqued and will get this eventually, just not at this moment in time.

@ellsworth004 I'm trying to keep my inner fanboy in check, but he's very happy with the game, yeah. Even though I've encountered a couple issues last night and this morning (more on that below) I'm still sitting here going "Yeah, but it's Star Wars, so...!"

@Th3solution Oh, I could sit here all day and debate lore with you.

But yeah, even if nobody ever mentioned any reason for the difference, I think we can all watch the films and understand that things would be different, simply out of necessity and whatnot. Whilst it absolutely isn't my favourite kind of gameplay, at all, I'm determined to stick with it because it's making me feel like a struggling Jedi, helping me to appreciate what it must be like living in a galaxy which is out to get you. Whether that appreciation holds up in subsequent playthroughs or not... well, we'll see. Glad I was able to help!

@JohnnyShoulder Yeah, I keep unlocking things and then forgetting to use them, because "parry stab, parry stab, dodge parry stab" has been working okay for me in most encounters, so I know what you mean. Many of the upgrades are for traversal and exploration, as much as they are for combat, so that helps keep a balance. Again, glad I was able to help!

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So last night and this morning, I've been on Kashyyyk (no need for spoiler tags; this is the twenty-minute gameplay segment shown at E3 and in multiple trailers). This is where the cracks have started to show.

Admittedly, the AT-AT sequence is very elaborate, but its technical performance wasn't on a par with what I'd played beforehand. There were frequent texture delays, Saw kept appearing out of nowhere, and the game froze for a good six or seven seconds before giving me back control of Cal after a long cutscene. The framerate across many environments also became noticeably low; again, not during combat, but during exploration and transitions to new areas.

And I've gotta be honest, the difficulty balance felt cruel in some parts. There was an extended combat sequence right beside a meditation point, followed by a boss fight which, okay, was optional but was also ridiculously tough. I died five times, always sent back to the meditation point with all enemies respawned, meaning I had to wade through them over and over. They weren't easy to beat either, so I had to basically keep practicing until I had beaten them with all my Stim-Packs intact, ready for the boss fight. I hate to say it, but it wasn't an enjoyable experience in the slightest.

Kashyyyk being one of the first places shown to the public, I've gotta believe that it was one of the first places developed and that Respawn never had the time to go back and polish it, because the difference between it and the three previous planets was almost night-and-day. It looks drab, it struggles to run and it has a mean-spirited middle. I was happy to leave.

The next planet is one of my all-time favourites from Star Wars canon, and appears to be smaller based on the map statistics, so I'm hoping it runs as smoothly as everywhere else and that Kashyyyk is just an anomaly. I should've gone there first, maybe.

But yeah, weird. It was still "yay, Star Wars, wum wum, ka-blooey" but it was also, just... eh.

@RogerRoger i haven't got very far into game so i havent had any issues. Are u playing on pro? Are u using performance mode?

@ellsworth004 I am on PS4 Pro, yes. I decided against Performance Mode because it was running so well during the prologue, but I might consider it as and when I return to Kashyyyk. What about you? What console and mode are you using?

It was nothing game-breakingly terrible, and some of them might be unlucky moments where I just happened to be looking in the right place at the wrong time. It's also possible that I might've started noticing insignificant things more because of my mounting frustration with the difficulty, so I wouldn't worry too much.

I'm sure it'll be okay, and I'm still super-excited for the next planet, which I'm about to return to!

That sounds quite like a Souls experience @RogerRoger you'll either still hate it... or you'll suddenly get the game design and it'll click with you 😅

@RogerRoger The section you've explained that you didn't enjoy because of the difficulty, that absoulety sounds like a Dark Souls game and has me more intrigued about the game. One thing that those games get right is that it hardly ever feels unfair but always (sometimes very slim) achievable. What sometimes similar games get wrong is just increasing the difficulty of enemies so it feels like there is no way to progres.

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy @JohnnyShoulder Thanks, guys. I'm trying to give it the benefit of the doubt, especially since I'm not used to skill-based gameplay. I can totally see the day when I return to that section and ace it without using a single Stim-Pack, but I'm not there yet. None of the attacks on Cal felt unfair, although some were timed far quicker than others (there's no comfortable attack pattern loop; each boss seems to randomly pick from three or four available move types). I'll get there, I'm sure.

@LN78 The load time for respawning isn't terrible; it's definitely less than a minute, closer to maybe twenty or thirty seconds? It might depend on where you are, how complex an environment it has to reload, or how far back from your point of death the game has to backtrack you.

It's just long enough to make you feel bad and let you think about your failure, damn them.

@RogerRoger i have a pro and using performance mode. I havent had any problems but im not as far into game as u. I would assume alot more happening on screen than where i am. As long as its not game breaking i can deal with it, its star wars! 😃

@ellsworth004 Oh, absolutely nothing game-breaking, no. And I'm happy to report that, across the following four hours in three new environments, everything has been back to being stable enough. There was one brief shot which was randomly 21:9 with black bars top and bottom, and a long transition that felt like a possible freeze, but otherwise great.

I think Kashyyyk's uneven quality is gonna end up being an outlier (if it never gets patched, which it probably will). Everywhere I've been since has been excellent and yeah, sure, there have been a couple of tough fights but nothing on the ridiculous, unfair level I encountered earlier this morning. It's been suitably dramatic and the challenge has risen to meet the demands of the story. I'm having a much better time with it now, and can't wait to get back to it later on.

Oh, and one of my redacted plot theories up there? Bang on. Was handled really well, though.

@LN78 I know a lot a people don't like long load times, but I don't mind them. Gives me a chance to read a wiki something. I come from an age when it took an age to load up a game from a cassette tape. Waiting up to a minute between deaths is nothing to me, no matter how frequent.

@RogerRoger Glad you are giving the game a chance to click with you. It took me an age for that to happen when I first played Dark Souls. Suppose it helps that you are a fan of Star Wars.

@RogerRoger have u played any of the dark souls series or bloodborne? Just wondering how u was liking the combat, for me i love it. This is my personal goty so far(i havent played death stranding yet) but it will be hard for a game to top it.