@LN78 I’ve only spent a little time on Dathomir and I didn’t like it as much as Zeffo and Bogano, mostly because it’s a more dark and depressing world and the enemies are quite difficult at some parts, but yes, it is a pretty complex map to trudge through. I was relieved to see that I could utilize the large tree trunk to get back to the ship and thereby cut off the first chunk of the map to get back to the ship. But yes, a homing beacon would have been a good idea.
As I play through the game I’m getting the feeling (and this is just a hunch) that early test groups complained about the backtracking and so they added more shortcuts because some of them seem a little bit tacked on, especially in Zeffo. Maybe it’s my imagination.
I’m getting close to reaching the first goal at Zeffo so I have a lot of game left, but the backtracking hasn’t annoyed me too much yet. I probably only did about a fourth or less of Dathomir, enough to get the dual lightsaber (which has been a godsend) after which I got the feeling that I was pretty underleveled to be there. When I inevitably return, it sounds like I might not be enjoying my time there as much as the other planets. Because yeah, despite my earlier post noting my observations about the refreshing frank nature that the game signposts shortcuts and pathways, there’s nothing worse than finishing an area’s goal and then having to shamble back to the beginning, often with only a sliver of health left, only to die on the way and have to repeat the whole process. It does offer an interesting dilemma which I find a pretty good mechanic — that being the conversation with oneself; “Shall I rest here and rejuvenate my health and stim packs and have to fight all these enemies again, or shall I take my chances with the tiny bit of health I have left, knowing if I sustain one hit or one fall then I’ll have to come all the way back”
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@LN78 Interesting. That’s disappointing to hear about the latter part feeling more rushed. Hopefully it’s just an issue with the mid section and the end packs a solid punch. I’ll surely post my thoughts as I progress. Didn’t play DMC5, but I know what you’re talking about.
Even in Fallen Order, I can see a few of the bugs people reference in their reviews, but so far they are minor. Animation, textures, etc. The game hasn’t crashed on me and I haven’t noted gameplay affecting judders or frame rate issues yet, haven’t gotten stuck in a animation loop or trapped in an area unable to escape from or other common headaches with unpolished products. But yes, a few more months in the oven would have served the game well, but would have likely resulted in too much ‘opportunity cost’ by not cashing in on the holidays and “Rise of Skywalker.”
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
I'm certain @RogerRoger will be able to offer more insight into the game's design - he has no doubt played through the whole thing six or seven times by now.
Actually, I've only played it twice. I'm scared of doing so again, now that it has Photo Mode. It'll take me months whilst I stop every thirty seconds to take pretty pictures (same struggle I'm currently facing in Horizon: Zero Dawn, and then there's Spider-Man up next... at least I'll have plenty of submission options for the end-of-year screencap contest).
@Th3solution I'm real pleased to hear that the Metroidvania elements have struck the perfect balance for you. Really enjoyed reading your midpoint thoughts, thanks! I think backtracking is an issue on which gamers will be quite divided. Some will love the immersion of sticking with Cal for his entire journey (heightened by the beautiful touch of having interplanetary loading take place during short flights aboard the Mantis) but others will miss a "fast travel" option.
Even I'm a little divided myself, because in games where I love the atmosphere (Batman: Arkham Origins springs to mind) I'll actively shun fast travel but in others, I haven't been able to activate it quickly enough. The other day in Horizon, when I saw my next objective was over 1,000 meters back the way I'd just walked, no amount of landscape eye candy was gonna stop me from skipping to its nearest campfire. I think @LN78 is right, especially with such a great in-universe idea; giving BD-1 a homing beacon to call the Mantis would've been a neat little touch as an option to those who didn't wanna backtrack (very much like the Batwing in Arkham Origins). I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something similar pop up in the sequel.
In its defence, though, each planet usually gives you a new Force power, weapon or other useful ability whenever you reach its objective. This often means each backtrack can be new and varied, as you're able to hack locked doors, push through weak walls, etc. and not only find those shortcut routes, but pick up the out-of-reach collectibles you noted on your way in. I appreciate that collectibles are perhaps just as divisive for some, but I found they made for some worthwhile wanders. This is the "game" element you spoke of and you're right, for all of its immersion, Fallen Order does often remember that its a game first and foremost. I can see how others would be a little more "C'mon, pick a side!" but for me, it struck the perfect balance between being an interactive movie and something to actively play.
As for comments about a lack of polish in some places, and feeling rushed? Yeah, it's true. I adore Dathomir but some of its textures are a little less refined, and the second half of Kashyyyk is pretty ropey as well (although it's much better after the latest patches). There's also a new planet late in the game which is very brief, although it's a planet from established canon and so we're shown as much of it as possible within those confines.
If you've only just found that certain upgrade on Dathomir, however, then you've only explored about a sixth of it, not a quarter. It's quite vast, and even more labyrinthine later on (and, despite being my favourite planet in the game, it's also the only one where I got frustrated hunting for collectibles post-game, as parts of it overlap and make the holomap ever-so-slightly useless, which I suppose could be viewed as a personal criticism of specific backtracking). Zeffo and Bogano got the most time in the oven, I'd say, with Kashyyyk and Dathomir betraying a development crunch most certainly the result of Disney wanting to co-ordinate with The Rise of Skywalker and The Mandalorian, yes ("We have a film, a television show and a game! There is no escape!").
All of the above regardless, and in fairness, I'm just so pleased that you've enjoyed its first third as much as you have. Even if you hate the rest of it (which I doubt you will) it's been time and money well spent!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Time and money well spent indeed. And like I said, I do think the timing was ripe for me, since I have been in a (perhaps corporate coerced) Star Wars frenzy lately, and also since it plays so differently than the last game I played, TLG, thereby cleansing that proverbial palate so well.
Your report of Dathomir has me worried though. The tangled web of the map in the first sixth of the world, coupled with the harder enemies, made for frequent deaths and my first attempts to use the “just run past the enemies” tactic that I spammed so much when I had to revisit areas in Bloodborne. Unfortunately that tactic doesn’t work quite as well here, because there are too many tight spots on the map where the enemy still catches up to you from behind, but I was still able to use it with some effect a time or two.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@RogerRoger Oh, and speaking of that and on the subject of fast travel and photo mode, I think you’ll find Spider-Man to be the quintessential game of unnecessary fast travel. Used it a few times but the swinging joyfully from point A to point B while mopping up collectible and fighting crime and capturing sick photos is the more enjoyable option for most people! 😄
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Freedom of choice is great, but I actually think allowing access to Dathomir so early in the game is a mistake, particularly since you can only get so far before being turned back (by which point, several key characters have been introduced to you, characters you won't see again for quite a while). On my second playthrough, I didn't go there until the story forced me to, and had a much better time. Apologies for not giving you that tip ahead of time, especially since you've kinda had the same reaction I did.
Don't be too concerned, though. When it's finally time to play through it, Dathomir is a fantastic and highly atmospheric planet (even without my inner fanboy relishing the chance to explore one of my favourite planets). Following the story doesn't make it quite so tangled to traverse, and keeps you focused on an eerie, unique slice of Star Wars history. It does culminate in a frustrating boss fight, the first of the game's two which had me wanting to lower the difficulty, but your mileage may vary, especially given your prior Soulsborne experience. Will be very interested to read what you make of it.
Yeah, part of me succumbing to fast travel in Horizon the other day is because I really wanna hurry up and get to playing Spider-Man. I love Aloy to bits, but awkwardly squatting around in tall red grass isn't exactly the most dynamic of traversal methods!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
After quite a break from the game (and from gaming in general), I’m back at it with Cal and Co.
Now reaching the last third of the game (in my estimation), the Metroidvania maps have become really a tangled web the deeper into it I get, which is making exploration increasingly difficult. The combat difficulty spikes are becoming a little more jarring. I find myself slicing through the flora and fauna of the planets and the disposable Troopers with ease, only to be ambushed by two Bounty Hunters which took me to the edge of my health. The Purge Troopers and Giant Spiders are tough when they show up too.
When playing Bloodborne, I took advantage of the enemy respawn and grinded areas over and over to level up for the boss fights, but here I find there is such diminishing returns of XP that it’s not worth it. I’m still playing the normal difficulty (forget what it’s called) with only one recent death, but a couple encounters came pretty close.
Hopefully I make a little progress this weekend.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@LN78 I’m going through the second half of Kashyyyk right now. I’ll be sure to check it out when I complete the game.
I am still enjoying it. I get a little lost in the maps from time to time and getting out of Zeffo was quite a chore (going back to the homing beacon idea you had earlier). But I still quite like the game, the story, the characters, and the combat. The open-linear structure of the maps is a mixed bag.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution If I may (and please don't take this as a comment against your natural skill and gaming ability), taking an extended break probably hasn't helped you here. I only say this because, similar to you, I returned to Horizon on Friday night after several weeks away from it, and promptly struggled with a handful of encounters which, before, I'd have breezed through. It was frustrating and I didn't enjoy it one bit, but I realised it was because I'd essentially "lost my eye" and by the time I shut down, ninety minutes later, I'd found it again. Aloy was back in the badass zone again.
That isn't to dismiss your valid points (returning to the Stinger Mantis, for example, is a universal comment about the game's general structure) but things like combat, map interpretation and design language intuition is something I felt increasingly confident with because of repeated use. Each to their own, though. I hope it doesn't bug you too much.
And you're right; Purge Troopers are always a pain, even on Jedi Knight (a.k.a. normal difficulty). Bounty Hunters are also challenging, although that can depend on where you encounter them.
Fingers crossed you're having a better time with it as the weekend progresses!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger You’re quite right. The several weeks away from the game didn’t do me any favors. Fortunately I did get back into the groove after a couple hours. Part of the problem with large gaps between play sessions is losing sense of direction and part is losing muscle memory and familiarity with input technique and strategy. I found myself settling for a basic hack ‘n’ slash approach with mashing the square button for a while then I realized “oh yeah, I can slow enemies and push them. And I can parry.” Eventually I gradually reacquainted myself to the full arsenal of moves and had good success. Like you say, I think those things are universally an issue with most games if you spend too much time away.
Even with getting back in the zone, I died twice last night at the hands of two bounty hunters and at a pretty tough concentrated hoard of creatures on Kashyyyk. Fortunately both areas were close to mediation points. Yet I handled the Ninth Sister with relative ease in the first try; I finished with two stim packs to spare. And getting out of Kashyyyk was pretty straightforward and I didn’t bumble around trying to find the right path like I had to on Zeffo. I elected to go straight on to Dathomir rather than backtrack for collectibles at the other planets now that I can Jedi jump and force pull. I was tempted to go back but figured I should move things along since I’ve been monkeying around with this game for so long. But I did find a good grind point. Turns out the slugs give quite a healthy amount of XP and there’s one point right by a mediation point where you can drop down on a slug from above and he’s down in 3 hits without time to react. Mediation point - respawn - kill - repeat. Did that for 30 minutes or so and gain like 2 whole skill points right there.
I’m also at the point in the game where I’m trying to get combat trophies, most of which haven’t come naturally to me yet. This is the problem with me and games — I get too distracted. 😅
I am having a lot of fun with it though.
Oh, and one other observation I made in my long gaming session yesterday is the technical issues of the game are more evident now. I’m noting less polish in general with clipping, frame rate studders, textures, and weird pauses with load times even within an area. I know this isn’t breaking news either, but I thought reviews were overly harsh on this a point, but it is more apparent to me lately. I guess I’m spoiled by the first party output and how rock solid those games tend to be.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Considering I platinumed it a couple of weeks ago, I’d say if you’re interested to try collecting as many things as possible while you’re already there. I spent a looooot of time travelling, instead of actually finding things just due to there being no warp. Either it was travelling to the very bottom of Dathomir because I missed one collectible or it was having to climb the tree in Kashyyyk to get 4% map completion. The technical issues bugged me a lot, because I expected a big third party game to be smooth as butter like the other heavy hitters. The texture pop-in was the worst, sometimes it even killed me because I slid right off a platform.
@Th3solution Yep, I forgot to use the Force multiple times; a terrible curse for a game in which you play a Jedi, some might argue, but equally a testament to how enjoyable the lightsaber twirling can be. I never felt the need to grind XP anywhere, but then I'm not coming to this from its inspirational legacy (or just thought I'd mop up any remaining skills in a post-game wander). Glad you found a good spot!
And don't talk to me about distractions (he writes, whilst copying over a dozen more Photo Mode screencaps into his overstuffed Horizon: Zero Dawn folder)!
Kashyyyk is the worst offender in the technical department. There are similar moments on Dathomir, but they're less frequent. There are parts of Kashyyyk which I'm convinced never made it out of beta, particularly beyond the Imperial refinery and into the deeper jungle areas. I think the more the game allows a planet to open up, the more it has to remember and the slower it becomes. Hopefully you won't encounter anything game-breaking on your path to the finale.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@nessisonett Replying separately so that Sol doesn't see behind my spoiler tags, but you're absolutely right about collecting everything as soon as possible, if only because those gosh-darn collectible seeds take forever to grow; seriously, I had to wander around for a couple hours post-game, with every other trophy unlocked, just waiting for them to sprout (without a Photo Mode to keep me busy).
Sol, I might be being a tad oversensitive with the tags there; if you don't mind knowing about a specific type of collectible which has zero bearing on the plot, then click away!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
So I've been playing this over the weekend, enjoying it a lot — notwithstanding all the bugs. Anyway, I was on Kashyyyk and found the albino spider boss. I wasn't expecting a tough fight and died fairly quickly. When I returned, the boss didn't spawn. I have no idea if this is another bug or if I've missed a one-time thing (surely not).
Maybe it will have fixed itself when I next boot the game up. Anyone else have this or similar things happen?
@Quintumply Some folks have reported this before, yes. The general consensus says that leaving the planet and returning later in the story will see it respawn for you. That particular albino spider will always hide out in that specific cave until you defeat it, at which point it stays dead forever because it's one of the hidden boss monsters. The glitch is basically that the game thinks you've defeated it, but once you leave the planet or continue with the story it should realise its mistake.
According to a quick search, Respawn were told multiple times about this specific glitch, and promised that a patch should've subsequently fixed it about a month ago.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
I've put well over 100 hours into this game and I am not gonna spoil anything just wanna say I really enjoyed this game so my question is the following. Will there be any DLC for Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order like there is for a lot of games?
@Davehunt Woah that’s an impressive number of hours! I got the platinum in about 35 hours and gave it back to my friend but thought it was a solid game with a wee bit too many technical issues.
@Davehunt Yeah, as @JohnnyShoulder says, there are no plans for story DLC but don't worry! It's because Respawn are already hard at work on a sequel. Glad you're having so much fun with it!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
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