@RogerRoger your post reads like you are describing Spiderman regarding its story, open world design and the rest and its really interesting that they share some similar positives and negatives while having such a different perception.
@NecuVise I don't wanna sound like a fanboy (quick, somebody yell "too late") but it is remarkable how much heavy lifting a little bit of brand loyalty can do, both in terms of a specific franchise and a specific console.
I say that without having played Spider-Man, for the record, and well-aware of my own bias towards all things Lara Croft.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger@NecuVise I’m going to play Spider-Man after finishing Shadow and will be able to compare the two. But I don’t think I will do them back to back since they are so similar and I just completed Horizon Zero Dawn just before starting Shadow. I want to give Spider-Man a fair shake and I might have open world action burn-out by the end.
But I played another 3-4 hours today and I am absolutely not sick of it. I am loving it still. I wish I didn’t have to sleep or work or I’d still be playing. I advanced the story through Paititi and onto the next major area and I love each new setting. They’re so ...Tomb Raidery. Much like the early games as far as setting and design. I will say, I’m not a fan of piranhas
I did think it was cool that I went a long time without dying and then when I finally died the games loading screen after death said something like “You haven’t died in a long time. You’re a true survivor.” Or something like that. It was a nice gesture. 😅
@RogerRoger I agree wholeheartedly on that, especially when there's hype for something. I say that having platinumed Spiderman and not a single minute in Shadow of the Tomb Raider
@Th3solution then it's definitely a good idea to wait with Spiderman as you could hate its side activities, especially after playing these two games back to back.
Is that your normal play through or a new game plus?
@Th3solution@RogerRoger Have read your thoughts on this game, it is has gone for a 'no way to 'maybe when the DLC is out'. That is if it is any good. The stuff for the last game I enjoyed very much. Anyone know of the schedule and the content of the DLC?
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
@NecuVise I’m still on my initial playthrough. According to the game I have about 50% completion. I’m playing it pretty slow and trying to clear an area as much as I can before moving on but I finally decided to leave some things for later in the large hub city so I could advance the story.
@JohnnyShoulder The initial release schedule appears to have planned DLC release every month until next April, for a total of 7 DLC packs. So the first one is supposed to come in October. I didn’t get the Season Pass.
My play style is usually to just play the base game and then move on because of my enormous backlog. I very rarely play DLC or NG+. I’m weird that way.
Although with Rise of the Tomb Raider the ‘20th Anniversary Edition’ that was released for PS4 and was essentially the complete edition with the DLC included and I played the Baba Yaga and Croft Manor DLC, which were pretty good, but I didn’t touch the Endurance and Cold Darkness ones.
When I see exactly what the DLC entails, I might change my tune and commit to the Season Pass, but it’s hard to say. I have a feeling that since there is so many planned that they will be small packs consisting of a challenge tomb and an outfit or weapon. The challenge tombs are probably my favorite part of the game so I might be tempted, but each one is about an hour or two of gameplay, so I don’t know.
Random side note: The game is much darker than I expected, and I mean the subject matter. Its not a bad or good thing, just an observation for those wondering. It’s not a spoiler since the main trailer alludes to the sacrificial rites of the Mayans, but I just wasn’t prepared for some of the grim content when it came. Nothing on the level of the most graphic horror games out there, but disturbing nonetheless. It’s well done imo, so far balancing out dramatic suspense and keeping it ‘video gamey’ enough to not lose its identity as a Tomb Raider game.
My main criticism so far is the lack of variety of NPC character models. Most games have just a few NPC models that they recycle over and over, so it is pretty much a given (I’m looking at you Yakuza 0) but it’s offputting and immersion breaking at times here. At first I was concerned I was being ethnocentrically biased by thinking ‘they all look the same’, but I’m pretty sure it’s because they are actually quite literally all the same.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Yeah I'm pretty much the same as you, I tend to only play the DLC when it is bundled with the game like with Rise. Played the Baba Yaga and Croft Manor DLC but only dabbled in the Endurance mode. Think the only season pass I've bought is for Fallout 4 and I've got one DLC pack to go. Oh and Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne but was for a while after the games were released and both at a discount.
Thinking about it I will probably get this for my Dad for Xmas and borrow after he has finished with it. By then a lot of the DLC would of dropped and i can decide whether or not to get any.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
@JohnnyShoulder Yeah, with the DLC being planned through until April 2019, the complete edition won’t land until probably next summer or fall, just a guess.
@get2sammyb I suppose I should drop my opinion since I have been one of the few who are vocal about the game, although I agree with @RogerRoger — it is definitely worth a purchase and playthrough for fans of the genre. This being said before I’ve actually finished it. It would have to just completely fall apart in the latter half for me not to recommend it to anyone who enjoys the franchise or exploration / action-stealth combat and fun climbing and traversal mechanics and entertaining puzzles. The story is better than Rise’s. The gameplay is better than Rise’s. The settings are more interesting and the world more beautiful than Rise’s. The voice acting is ... a little better than Rise’s (but admittedly not on par with gaming’s best). So if you liked Rise of the TR it’s a no brainer when the price point hits your comfort level. If you didn’t like Rise, then it depends as to why you didn’t like it to determine your enjoyment here. There’s a chance that you would like it even if you didn’t care for Rise, as long as you can handle more Camilla Luddington and Jonah.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@JohnnyShoulder Just to briefly elaborate on the response from @Th3solution earlier, yes, there's gonna be monthly DLC drops for Shadow. Each contain an outfit and a weapon, as well as a new Side Quest which will ultimately lead Lara to discover and solve new Challenge Tombs dotted about the map. This will add six more Challenge Tombs to the game, giving a final total of fifteen. The DLC storylines will apparently each focus on a specific element of gameplay; the first, coming in October, has been confirmed to be stealth, and the Side Quest will elaborate on the backstory of one of the main new characters from the core game.
Also, one of the months will open up the Challenge Tomb option on the main menu, which will allow all Challenge Tombs (core game and DLC) to be replayed separately with remixed traps and puzzles. I can imagine there'll be some leaderboard integration or something, similar to Rise.
Finally, there's rumours of a co-op mode for the Challenge Tombs, but they're only just rumours for now.
I have the Season Pass, so will return and give spoiler-free feedback once I've played the first DLC.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Oh, sir. I just have to say, I just finished Cenote (I think I spelled that right) and it scared the living daylights out of me! Holy moly! When those orc type creatures are ambushing you and attacking you by surprise in the dark and their creepy clicking and groaning ... oh gosh, my heart... That section is so freakin’ creepy too with the mutilated bodies, the body parts and random impaled soldiers, skeletons, and creepy creatures. Geez, I wasn’t expecting a mini horror game! It was pretty awesome, but how did you handle that? I remember you don’t like horror or zombies and I think that section was worse than most of The Last of Us. I just had to share with someone... my heart was beating out of my chest! Ok... I think I can breathe now. I might not sleep tonight but ...phew!
Anyways, the game just got better. 😝
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@get2sammyb Hope you enjoy! I know you haven't been the biggest fan of the reboots, but you can always swap out your outfit to look like Classic PSone Lara and just mute the audio.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@Th3solution Ah yes, the Cenote. You're right; usually, I wouldn't have made it through there in one piece, but there were two special reasons as to why I actually enjoyed that section more than I perhaps should have done.
Firstly, I did expect it. Because even the slightest bit of PG-13 horror is not my thing, I spent most of the previous two reboots recoiling (remember the corpse room in 2013, and the river of blood Lara emerges from? Or the wolves?) and went into Shadow knowing promotional material and reviews had called it "the darkest yet". I'd also done that first Challenge Tomb right before the Young Lara flashback (I really hope you have as well; huge apologies if you haven't, skip to the next paragraph, quick!) in which one of those creatures stalks Lara and throws spiked rocks at her, which was a really nice, lighter way of introducing the creepy elements of the Cenote and saying "Hey, heads up, there's gonna be stuff like this, okay?"
There was a very effective build-up to the Cenote. It didn't suddenly and randomly go "BOO!!" but introduced those noises in the background, then eerie music, then some of the scenery, then a corpse or two, and then it gives you the shotgun (gaming shorthand for "get ready, you're gonna need this"). There are also those moments where you see a shadow and some rocks fall, or a figure peering down into the water at you as you swim, which were all signposts which told me to brace myself. I really appreciated them; as I said, I knew to expect something like that, and the fact that there was a slow crescendo made it do-able. Still jumped, but in the same way I jumped at Man-Bat in Arkham Knight, a kinda jump-then-laugh-at-myself-for-jumping.
Most importantly, however, I spent my entire first playthrough terrified of an even bigger fear, namely spiders. As I think we've discussed before, I'm beyond petrified of realistic-looking spiders in games (cartoon ones, I'm fine with; the ones in Uncharted 3 are just on the right side of okay, but the car-sized tarantula in Tomb Raider Underworld gave me nightmares... which, funnily enough, was the last time Lara visited Peru).
I know spiders and beetles scuttle around all over the place in Shadow, but they're easy to miss and ignore, and you can one-hit stab them, so there'd been no jump-scares or horror moments connected to them. Once I'd gotten a calm, close-up look at their in-game model, I was okay with them. I was, however, convinced there'd be some kind of hideous cinematic sequence where Lara falls into a pit of them, or she's in a dark cave and when she lights a torch one would be right in her face... and I'm playing in the dark, with headphones on, by the way. Sure enough, when I got to the Trial of the Spider (that big wall with the giant red spider mural on the path between Kuwak Yaku and Paititi) I took my headphones off and turned the light on, then watched a playthrough on my phone to make sure I knew what I was walking into. I just had visions of this awful sequence playing out in my head, where Lara would have to crawl through a tunnel infested with them or something. Thank goodness they didn't go that route.
And so, with all my fears pre-occupied, I found the Cenote a walk in the park.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Further spoilery discussion.. Part of what freaked me out so much about the whole thing was the anticipation and I did see the signposts, so to speak, of the shadows and creature during the previous challenge tomb. And despite the knowledge that something was coming, it didn’t seem to help me brace for it since the build up and anticipation of a scare was almost worse than when the attacks happen. Trying to solve that puzzle while constantly worrying about being stabbed in the back was very unsettling and thankfully the second water wheel part was much simpler after the first. But the sounds they make in my headphones (yes I was playing alone in the dark with headphones as well) had me constantly turning around to prevent getting killed. It was a very effective build up in tension. And I’m sure there is more to come, I’ve probably not seen the last of these ghouls
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution That says a lot about how different folks see fear, I think. You responded to the build-up of a tense atmosphere, which put you on edge, whereas I'd say that I'm more scared of the sudden, out-of-nowhere unseen threats. In fact, the jump-scare from the Challenge Tomb which is infested with foxes got me twice, both during my first playthrough and in New Game Plus, because it's comparatively unannounced (there was one shadow and a brief growl, and then BOOM! Fox in your face). After getting the shotgun in the Cenote, I literally walked down that corridor with the eerie quiet and the heavy breathing with a countdown to a jump-scare running in my head.
You're right, though, that water-wheel puzzle was very tense because of the constant waves of creatures. It's also pretty tricky on higher difficulties because one or two of them can get stuck climbing up the scenery to attack Lara, to the point where you think you're clear and safe to proceed, and then you're suddenly getting swiped at after a pretty long delay. Watch your back!
Can't wait to see what you make of later parts of the game, based on your comments here.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
After a couple weeks of not being able to play, I’m back into this game. 60% complete. When I booted it back up I was confused where I was and how to progress, but finally figured it out.
One thing that I find annoying is the lack of control over when Lara turns on her flashlight. It sounds minor, but it will automatically turn on and off when it is perceived to be dark, and there are times when it’s too dark to see in a tomb and I wish I could manually engage the artificial light. On the contrary, I’m playing through a stealth section in the jungle that has me crouching in bushes and against vine covered walls in order to hide and perform stealth take downs, and Lara has her flashlight on while hiding! The AI thankfully ignores the light but it’s pretty immersion breaking.
A small complaint to an otherwise awesome game so far. I felt I needed to give some fair criticism where it’s due and not just be blind to the weak parts.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
I completed Lara’s latest adventure and am very satisfied with the game. The previously stated shortcomings are valid and there is a relative lull in the middle of the game, but honestly I enjoyed it throughout. The Push Square review also mentioned the lack of combat scenarios and the feeling that you really didn’t get to spend enough time using all the weapons and upgrades that you acquire, and this is true. However the added emphasis on exploration, climbing and traversal, and story is very welcome. The set pieces were really well done and there is clearly an Uncharted feel to some off them. But the open hubs are much more prominent here than in even Lost Legacy.
The ending was a properly climactic and I liked the final boss fight. Perhaps @RogerRoger or someone can give me their interpretation of the ending. As I see it Lara has become the god that had to be sacrificed by virtue of her defeat of Lopez and possession of the dagger and box. So she had to give her life to save the world from shadow and save the sun. But then when it came to it, the Queen demon lady (forget her name) tried to offer her as a sacrifice, but the dagger was repelled by a blinding light... why? I didn’t understand. Was it because she resisted the temptation to use the power to bring back her parents? I’m assuming that’s what the montage of the flashback represented. It was a little unclear to me what happened as she is then suddenly back in Paititi later and all is well. Perhaps there is some room for interpretation there.
What a joy it was to play this game and although I finished at 95% completion, I am not going to take the time to go back for the last dozen or so relics and documents. They are all likely hidden away far and wide and it might take 4-5 hours. I might try NG+ someday, but I’ve got too many other games to experience right now.
But overall, it’s my favorite of the current trilogy and one of my top 10-15 games on PS4. I’ll have to think about it a little to decide exactly where it will fit in. I’ll let it sink in a bit.
@Th3solution Glad you enjoyed it (perhaps a little more than I did in parts, which is awesome) and thanks for tagging me in your final thoughts, because I was curious! I obviously agree with a lot of your conclusions and have done the same; I'm 98% complete but that might make the search time even longer for those last three or four relics I'm missing, so am saving that for if it's the last thing standing between me and a platinum trophy once all the DLC has been released.
As for your interpretation of the ending, I reckon that there are deliberately two or three variations that you could draw, and it's up to how you want Lara to be integrated into the ritual. Part of me wants to believe that there was never any sacrifice of life, and that when Unuratu (who was originally supposed to be in the role Lara eventually fulfils) speaks of making the ultimate sacrifice, she's talking about resisting her temptations rather than allowing herself to be killed. She does, after all, react with disgust when she and Lara witness a human sacrifice in Paititi, and it would separate her side of the culture war from the corruption and evils of Dr. Dominguez and the Trinity cult. It's also how Unuratu speaks of the preparation for her role that convinces me; there's no suicidal or fatalist edge, but rather a reflective pain about what she's been through, rather than what she's heading towards.
All this supports your theory that the dagger was repelled from Lara because she ultimately said goodbye to her parents and walked away from that same temptation; that isn't to say that the dagger would've struck her if she hadn't, but perhaps the power wouldn't have been transferred and she'd have become the corrupt god they feared Dominguez would, because she'd have needed to retain the power to change history and keep her parents alive.
On a very basic level, though, I think most people would just read it as "she has finally become the hero, stopped being a selfish murderer and started being a selfless protector, and is therefore spared" and call that the conclusion to her character arc, which I'd be perfectly fine with as well.
I forget, did you get the Season Pass? If so, will you be waiting for all the DLC to be released, or will you play it as-and-when it's released? I'm undecided about how to approach it.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger I did not get the Season Pass, unfortunately. I kind of wish I had, seeing as how much I have enjoyed it and crave a little more; maybe I’ll purchase it later when it is all complete, or at least when a few of the installments have been released after several months.
As far as the ending, first my apologies for butchering (no pun intended) Dominguez’s name and calling him Lopez. I wrote that at 11 PM after a long day. Yeah, that’s my excuse. 😒
And I did go and watch on YouTube the “accidentally” included alternate final scene that was patched out. It really makes a lot of sense to allude to Jacqueline Natla with showing the letter, and I think it is a cool nod to the upcoming adventures Lara will have. They opted to rather include the drawing of the Pyramid and the dinosaur as the foreshadowing Easter Egg. But the removed scene is of ‘final release’ quality and looks to make such sense that I wonder if the whole thing isn’t an intentional ruse to reward the fan base with a nugget of treasure for those willing to explore and search for it. It’s a real life allegory of the gameplay. I’ll choose to believe it was an ingenious reward for the dedicated rather than an accidental editing mistake.
@Th3solution Okay, well I'll try and play the first couple ASAP and come here to give some impressions, then, and that might help you decide what to do.
And don't worry, I knew what (or indeed who) you meant!
Being totally honest? I never even considered that about the original ending; that's an awesome way of looking at it, giving the fans a real-life treasure hunt to complete. I just assumed that they wanted to stop any immediate speculation about the next game being a reboot / remake of TR1, which we've already had in Anniversary, after some PR person or games tester asked them to explain the letter. I like your theory more!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
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