Topic: Hitman 2 (2018)

@RogerRoger I imagine I'd have been playing on Medium, so I was probably not as loose with the saves as I thought! Completely forgot about the save limits. Haha, I don't know if I would revel in killing someone completely innocent, but it certainly would be an interesting change of pace to see how they'd handle it!

@Tjuz Perhaps "revel" was the wrong word, apologies... it was just that your description of all the photographs and whatnot sounded so harrowing!

I do wonder if 47 would ever do that, though. As much as he is an assassin, he does seem to have a moral code. I've certainly never thought of him as an anti-hero or a villain, but more just a stoic "do what must be done" kinda guy, kinda like Batman or Jack Bauer... although maybe that's just because I play how I play. You're right, could make for an interesting mission at some point.

@RogerRoger Haha, no worries. No offense taken. I just thought it was a funny word choice. I can't fault you considering I went fairly in-depth in my post before it, like you said! I don't think I've ever seen 47 as a Jack Bauer characters personally, but I think even Jack Bauer would do something along those lines if it's in the context of "one life for thousands of others". Well, that is if TV writers don't give such a character an easy way around it.

@Tjuz I'm full of funny words, me.

Yeah, the beauty of games is that we can often ask more questions of our characters than in structured TV shows. It's probably a deeply flawed comparison; I just get a sense that 47 isn't evil, rather simply professional, and that professionalism comes with standards that wouldn't allow him to cross certain lines. But I'd love to see him pushed towards or maybe even over those lines once or twice, even if my approach to those moments could be different to everybody else's.

@RogerRoger I do wonder where those lines are though. To me he comes across as a "professional" as well, but "a professional killer" doesn't need a moral code. He might just be really good in taking orders.

Maybe playstyle changes how you look at him.

@Kidfried Well, I find this interesting, because out of context your first three sentences could also accurately describe James Bond. In fact, between Bond and 47, the only difference is that a government tells 007 where to go and who to kill, whereas it's a private organisation that directs 47. Yet we know for certain that Bond is a hero, a good guy... so why not 47, then?

Playstyle probably has a lot of impact. Perhaps 47 is the last of the great "bland, faceless avatars" that used to populate games in order to try and give gamers the chance to imprint themselves onto the character they control, before narrative and story became as important as gameplay. Given the amount of choice in Hitman levels, it seems more true and likely here than in any other franchise.

Sorry, feels like I've gotten a little heavy there. We're still talking about games in which you can dress up as a giant chicken and throw coconuts at people, so I'm probably over-thinking things!

@RogerRoger Yes, good interpretation. Although I must say I think we've seen Bond disobey orders (?) whereas that's not the case with 47 (from the top of my head). You probably know way more about both series than I do.

Also, I love when you're able to project yourself on a character like that.

@Kidfried Good point; several times, Bond has gone rogue, although it's usually against the established rules and methodology rather than actual objective (like Licence to Kill or Die Another Day) and ultimately, he wants the same outcomes as his superiors (dead villains and Rule Britannia). There's less wiggle room with 47 because his job is so singular and commercialised, the Agency is paid and he delivers, although... well, just in case you've never played it before, I'll just say that Hitman Absolution may or may not feature a relevant example of similarity.

And me too. It's often how I'm able to reconcile my brain and these games, and I think it's a big part of why Hitman is still so popular, because it's always maintained that light touch.

Kinda hoping there isn't too much story in Hitman 2. Just enough to give context will do.

@RogerRoger So... I did it this weekend! I even have all trophies for Marrakesh now.

In the end I really liked this one, almost as much as Paris even. Once you figure out it's actually two very small levels (school and consulate) and the rest of it you can almost ignore (safe for a few items and outfits), it gets way better. It is a bit of a letdown that there wasn't more to the level than just these two small locations, because I would have been way down with doing more on the streets. But all in all I had fun regardless.

I've never bought Episode 4, and I did get Colorado for free last week, so I'll be doing that.

The episodic structure has been a mess though. Everything has been so vague. And removing the option to buy separate episodes is pretty annoying. Also, having released most of the episodes I own for free now, while I bought them full price. It's really strange business practices.

EDIT: Apparently Colorado was only free temporarily. Guess I missed out! Oh well.

There's no way I'm going to buy Hitman 2 before a GOTY edition is out. Look what you made me do, IO/Eidos.

@Kidfried Woo, congratulations! I haven't even managed that!

I agree with your assessment, both of Marrakesh and of the overall episodic release structure, almost word-for-word. I did spend a few entertaining hours wandering around the superfluous areas of Marrakesh, and it's fun to track some Opportunities through to places like the exclusive restaurant / club area, which require an extra element of logical thought but, you're right, you can largely ignore them. Which is a shame, as they're gorgeous and interesting, far more than the core locations, which I found somewhat generic (not genetic).

Sorry you missed Colorado for free. To be honest, I think Colorado is my least-favourite level anyway, and it was therefore a bit of a struggle to go back to it and unlock the Mastery Levels I needed for later levels (there's a specific gadget I wanted), so you're not missing too much there, if that helps.

You mentioned that you'd paid money for some levels, though, so what levels do you actually have access to, then? Or is Marrakesh as far as you're gonna go?

I'm hoping it was SquareEnix who forced the episodic structure on IO, and that Hitman 2 is a more traditional "game + DLC levels with the season pass" affair. Guess I'll find out Friday (well, more like Sunday, by the time I actually get to sit down and play).

@RogerRoger I only have Intro + Paris, Sapienza and Marrakesh so far. The fact that I got all trophies on those three, and even completed most escalation contracts, says less about my skill or dedication, and more about how much fun I had playing the levels once you're comfortable moving around them.

Thinking of a plan is way more fun once you have a global idea of what is where. Really makes those games more arcade-y too, which is a big plus for me. I hope they can manage to carry that over to the sequel. Probably, going by their track record.

The release of Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Spider-Man this year, were reminders of how I hate buying games until all content is released, but I can't wait to read your impressions on it.

@Kidfried Ah, I see. Would you ever be tempted to spend money on the other levels, based on the enjoyment you've had with those three?

Part of what you've said really chimes with me; I often find myself enjoying second playthroughs more in many ways than first times, and Hitman is definitely one of the games I'd strongly apply that feeling to. It's fun to discover stuff but, when everything's new and large and daunting, there's an undercurrent of tension and anxiety which I struggle to shake (it's why I wanted you to help with Marrakesh, because I got why you felt stuck immediately).

I'm super-excited to play Hitman 2 but I'm looking forward to my second week with it moreso than my first, in which I'll clumsily bump around the levels and trigger all the alarms, and restart over and over. It's only then that I'll be able to start playing how my brain wants me to play.

Will keep you updated on the Season Pass content, too. I'm always of two minds about such stuff, but one of those minds completely agrees with you.

@RogerRoger Warning: I'm going to ramble right now.

I never rewatch films, never reread books and you'd have to pay me to play the Uncharted games again.

But that's different when games are light on plot, and focused on ganeplay, and specifically when a game rewards you for having a go at it again.

Super Mario World for instance, is like Hitman. Half of the levels have alternate exits, enticing you to play again, search again. Another favorite is Bloodborne, which has you play level sections again and again, by having you die, but all these deaths made me more comfortable in playing those sections, to the point where I would replay them to grind for echoes (currency).

Currently I'm experiencing something again in Hotline Miami 2. You'll probably hear me talk about this game somewhere else on the forum.

That feeling of mastering a level is great. And it's in Hitman as well. First time in Marrakech I thought to myself 'how am I ever going to get in the consulate', but now I am capable to get in multiple ways.

It's one of the feelings I love most about video games: I couldn't do that before, guess I got better!

I'll buy the GOTY... probably soon! But 35 is a bit too much, seeing I am only interested in the 'actual levels' and not the bonus stuff.

(You reading my mind on Marrakech was golden. I'll be sure to let you know whenever I'm stuck again!)

@Kidfried Hey, it's me; no warning necessary, I love a good ramble.

You being the type of person who never re-watches or re-reads things reinforces a view I've held for a while, about the role of a game's narrative nowadays. It's funny that you specifically mention Uncharted as an example, because I've always seen that franchise as "frustrated film-makers use gameplay to tell story", rather than "game developers using story to give context to gameplay". There's been a sharp rise in those kinds of games since the middle of the PS3's life cycle, and I don't blame you for developing your play-once approach to them.

And absolutely, Hitman is more of a "traditional" or "classic" game than anything else. I think it's also why Hitman Absolution is considered the worst game of the franchise, because that shifted focus to a more story-heavy, checkpoint-driven linear experience and away from the "cutscenes, which you can kinda skip, tying together sandbox levels" formula that defined 47.

In fact, ahead of Hitman 2, I'm desperately trying to remember anything about the previous game's story. I remember the cutscenes being pretty and stylish, but that's about it. I'll have to watch them on YouTube again before the weekend, just in case... but I sincerely doubt it's a requirement.

But it's a testament to the quality of the Hitman games and the experience they provide, since I am absolutely the type of person who'll re-watch, re-read and re-play everything I own, over and over. I don't think I've ever played any of the other examples you used, save probably Super Mario because everybody's played that at some point. And yet, you and I agree on exactly why Hitman is an incredible experience, and get the same kind of satisfaction from figuring things out, trying new approaches and tracking different Opportunities. We even play the levels the same way; do a lap of the area, observe and plan, get yourself politely turned away from all the checkpoints, etc. and I find that really interesting. The subsequent feeling of mastery is also distinctly unique to games, something you can't get from other forms of entertainment.

Proof that, as long as you're a high-quality example of whatever you're trying to do, you'll engage with people regardless... or, to put it another way? Good work, 47.

So, you'd be forking out €35 for, basically, three levels? Yeah, makes sense to wait. I'll check how the previous game's levels are integrated into Hitman 2, because apparently they are; might work out cheaper if you wait for that Hitman 2 GOTY Edition, even if you have to purchase them as a €10 add-on or something (I'm fully prepared for a message saying "you get these because you purchased the previous game, thank you" upon booting up).

But some of the bonus levels are worth a look-see, because despite being location remixes, they're really cleverly done. I won't spoil too much but one, for example, has a public event taking place in Sapienza and uses the other half of the map; you don't even need to go anywhere near the mansion. They really get the most out of everywhere, and don't feel cheap like I thought they would from reading about them. I was going to ignore them completely, but gave one a shot out of curiosity and ended up loving them as much as the standard, core objectives. Marrakesh is one of them, by the way (stopped myself the other day when you said you'd completed it, as I realised one of my favourite Opportunities is from the bonus remix, not the main level).

There you go; a ramble for a ramble.

Okay, so...

Hitman 2 repeats the same mistake as the previous game; to track Challenges and Mastery, you always need to be online and connected to the IO servers. Previously, this meant that if you make a quick save whilst online, you won't be able to use it if you lose connection. Here's hoping the servers have been significantly stabilised, because they used to go down about once a fortnight.

There is also a 16Gb Day One patch. Probably contains the last couple levels.

In order to get access to the previous game's locations for free, you need to install and run your copy of Hitman (2016) and redeem the "Legacy Pack" via its own menu's store page. This will trigger sequential downloading of all seven previous level packs, which are between 4Gb and 8Gb each. Since I'd deleted the previous game thinking I didn't need it any longer, because its levels would be included in Hitman 2, this morning has been an incredibly long fiddle to get everything into one icon on my PS4.

@Kidfried The Legacy Pack is only available free if you've purchased one of the "complete" versions of the previous game, or all the level packs separately; however, it's also available separately on the PS Store for cash money (I can't see it, perhaps because I own the previous game, but the American PS Store has it up for $24.99 so that gives you a rough idea of how much it'll cost). It might be the cheapest way to experience the levels you've yet to play, and I can only see it getting cheaper down the line, either in sales or as a milestone giveaway.

Not sure if it'll include the story cutscenes, but they're so very inconsequential and easy to watch on YouTube (all fifteen minutes of them). I'd check myself for you, but my Legacy Packs are still downloading and I'm against the clock today.

@RogerRoger 25 is a fine price. That would make my total investment in Hitman 2016 be 60. Good price for the content.

And sad to hear they didn't improve on the game's system at all. That was the most important thing that needed improving, and would only be more logical now the game isn't episodic anymore.

It's always-online for the sake of always-online. Bad show.

Also, this game does feel like a missed opportunity to evolve the concept. I saw you arguing you don't require innovation too much for it to be a great game. Which is true on one hand. But on the other hand, you look at games like Fortnite, with its evolving maps throughout the year, and I can't help but feel like Hitman 2 could have done so much more to push the series forward.

From most reviews and your impressions it still sounds like IO gives us the cons of being always online (slow saves, no challenges offline) without the pros (ever
evolving gameplay).

And I can very qell understand they might not have the budget to go all-in, but in that case they should just drop the service model and go for a streamlined offline experience.

Playing Hitman 2016 is great, don't get me wrong, but it feels like a game not exactly sure about what it wants to be.

@Kidfried @RogerRoger Ah shucks, always online is definitely a mark against it. I have perfectly decent internet, but server stability is never a guarantee. What a bummer.

@Kidfried Just finished all the downloads and there's a Campaign tab on the main menu, where you can select the individual stories for Hitman and Hitman 2, so all content is indeed there.

I'm a little disappointed at the same always-online interface, yeah. I guess there's a reason for it, but it's kinda why I wasn't surprised at the super-convoluted way of redeeming the Legacy Pack, just frustrated that there wasn't more warning. IO seem to have no issues with tasking everybody with massive downloads and always-online features. If that's how they've made the game, then of course it'd be tough to change, and the "live" aspects like Elusive Targets are a no-brainer.

Or maybe IO just live in an area with really good internet.

I tend to see things in trilogies. Earlier comments about Shadow of the Tomb Raider's familiarity and lack of innovation weren't really fair because it was always the third part of a whole; it's what Lara does next that I'd direct those comments towards, if she fails to shape up or move with the times. Similarly, I saw Hitman (2016) as the first of a new breed of Hitman games, after the franchise tried something new with Absolution. This is now Hitman 2 and they're tweaking things and trying to bring it all under one umbrella (for all my grumbles, I now have a 90Gb game on my PS4 with twelve massive sandbox environments, an ongoing story and two distinct multiplayer modes... that's quite neat).

Whilst I can completely understand where you're coming from, in terms of innovation and what's expected of modern games, I feel that the refined sequels are equally as valid as reinventing core systems every couple years, especially when you've got a formula that works. Right now (and given this nearly didn't get made, with IO being dumped by SquareEnix) I'm perfectly okay with Hitman 2 being a new hat and coat hung on an old hanger but, by the end of a hypothetical Hitman 3, I'll be joining you in calling for more evolution.

I get the impression it was SquareEnix who demanded the "game as a service" episodic release before, and that IO would rather deliver complete games. With that in mind, it'd be easier to strip out the always-online elements in subsequent titles. Fingers crossed.

@kixem Sorry for the delay. Quoting myself here...

To clarify, you can "play" Hitman 2 offline, but it means you won't unlock any new weapons, gadgets, outfits or items with your score, as that's all part of the Mastery system which is tracked by your profile on IO's servers. Any of the Challenges you complete also won't register, and trophies only pop if the game's connection to the IO server is present.

For example, if there's a trophy saying "complete the Challenge where you kill this guy with a rubber duck" and you do whilst offline, the game won't register that you have and therefore the trophy won't pop. You'll have to fulfil the Challenge again whilst online.

If you play online and then try to continue a save file offline, you won't be able to, and vice versa.

So, basically, yes, you can play and complete all of Hitman 2's levels whilst offline, but the progression systems will be locked off and some in-game opportunities or methods may be impacted as a result, as some are only possible with specific equipment.