Topic: Team [404 - Team Name Not Found] Deliberation Station

Final results (I voted, but then realized I added mine to the tally first, so I'll put those up separate later)
Dynasty Warriors 7: Xtreme Legends Omega Force – IMPORTANT
Dynasty Warriors 7 Empires Omega Force - NOT IMPORTANT
Dynasty Warriors 8 Omega Force –EXISTING
Dynasty Warriors 8: Xtreme Legends - Omega Force –EXISTING
Dynasty Warriors: Gundam Omega Force –EXISTING
Dynasty Warriors: Gundam 2 Omega Force - NOT IMPORTANT
Dynasty Warriors: Gundam 3 Omega Force –IMPORTANT
Dynasty Warriors: Gundam Reborn Omega Force - NOT IMPORTANT
Dynasty Warriors: Strikeforce Blue Omega Entertainment - NOT IMPORTANT
Earth Defense Force 2025 Sandlot –EXISTING
Earth Defense Force: Insect Armageddon Sandlot –EXISTING
EA Sports Active 2 EA Tiburon - IMPORTANT
EA Sports MMA EA Tiburon EXISTING
Eat Lead: The Return of Matt Hazard Vicious Cycle Software –POINTLESS
Echochrome II Japan Studio –IMPORTANT
El Chavo Kart Effecto Studios / Slang –NOT IMPORTANT
El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron Ignition Tokyo - EXISTING
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Bethesda Game Studios - VERY IMPORTANT
The Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isles Bethesda Game Studios –IMPORTANT
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Bethesda Game Studios - VERY IMPORTANT
Enchanted Arms From Software - NOT IMPORTANT
Enemy Front CI Games - NOT IMPORTANT
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars Splash NOT IMPORTANT
Enslaved: Odyssey to the West Ninja Theory –IMPORTANT
Epic Mickey 2: The Power of Two Junction Point Studios NOT IMPORTANT
Escape Dead Island Fatshark - NOT IMPORTANT
Eternal Sonata tri-Crescendo –EXISTING
Everybody Dance SCE Studios London –EXISTING
Everybody Dance 2 SIE London Studio –POINTLESS
Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds / Everybody's Golf: World Tour Clap Hanz –IMPORTANT
Everybody Sing O-Games EXISTING
EyeCreate SCE London Studio –EXISTING
The Eye of Judgment SCE Japan Studio EXISTING
EyePet SCE London Studio –EXISTING
Eyepet & Friends SCE Studios London – EXISTING
F.E.A.R. Monolith Productions / Day 1 Studios - IMPORTANT
F.E.A.R. 2: Project Origin Monolith Productions – EXISTING
F.E.A.R. 3 Day 1 Studios – EXISTING
F1 2010 Codemasters Birmingham – NOT IMPORTNAT
F1 2011 Code masters - IMPORTANT
F1 Race Stars Code masters – NOT IMPORTANT

@Jaz007 (Captain) @Th3solution (Vice-Captain)
@Frigate @RogerRoger @themcnoisy @TowaHerschel7

Friendly reminder, comrades, that whilst we're collectively working on the small bunch of games in the main topic, we've also got until Monday to raise any objections to the previous round of rankings on Appeal (and I'm liking the longer deadline for this).

Whilst I'm sorely tempted to argue for boosting Dragon Age II up to the "Very Important" tier, I'm also very conscious that it can be a vastly different experience for each individual player (because of the personal choice and diversity of options and outcomes available) and that the general consensus on the game is that it's somehow a step down from DA: Origins.

Unless there's anybody else on Team [404 - Team Name Not Found] who feels strongly enough to agree with me, I think I can live with leaving it alone.

Tag me if there's anything else you'd like us to consider moving.

@RogerRoger If you feel that strongly I will back you for sure.

Dragon Age was massive last gen. I haven't played DA2 though :/

@RogerRoger I also never played the second. I was kinda underwhelmed by Origins however but agree it is probably very important in the grand scheme of things.

@themcnoisy @Th3solution Thanks guys; because you haven't played DAII, I feel it wouldn't be fair to ask for your blind support. I very much appreciate it, though.

Besides, we're only up to F and I'm gonna be asking for a lot of LEGO, Sonic, Star Wars and Tomb Raider help, I'm sure! So the more I consider the wider rankings, the more I'm happy to leave DAII where it is (because heck, the "Important" classification still means it's a darn good game).

Anything else in the list you've spotted, let me know.

@RogerRoger @Th3solution As far as importance goes, putting opinion lower on the list, I think it's more of an issue that the first one isn't very important as was. It was redefining WRPGS at the time. I haven't played it, but it did a lot for a breakthrough for Bioware. Especially since Mass Effect 1 wouldn't be on the PS3 until years later.

@Jaz007 This is true, thanks. Because I'm playing them late (like I did for Mass Effect) I sometimes forget the launch context and the sequence in which BioWare's two major trilogies were developed.

In the past couple months, working through the Dragon Age games as I am, the leap in quality across the board between the ropey, limited Origins and the stunning DAII seems glaringly obvious to me. That's probably why I was thinking of it, but then that's weighting my personal (and new) opinion pretty heavily against the other criteria.

Cheers, comrades. I'm now feeling much better about leaving it be.

Alrighty then, team.

Guitar Hero 5 Neversoft
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith Neversoft
Guitar Hero: Live FreeStyleGames
Guitar Hero: Metallica Neversoft
Guitar Hero Smash Hits Beenox
Guitar Hero: Van Halen Underground Development / Neversoft / Budcat Creations
Guitar Hero: Warriors of Rock Neversoft
Guitar Hero World Tour Neversoft
Hail to the Chimp Wideload Games
Hannah Montana: The Movie n-Space
Happy Feet Two KMM Games
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part I EA Bright Light Studio
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part II EA Bright Light Studio
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince EA Bright Light Studio
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix EA UK
Hasbro Family Game Night 3 EA Bright Light
Hasbro Family Game Night 4: The Game Show EA Bright Light
Hatsune Miku: Project DIVA F Crypton Future Media
Hatsune Miku: Project DIVA F 2nd Crypton Future Media
Haze Free Radical Design
Heavenly Sword Ninja Theory
Heavy Fire: Afghanistan Mastiff
Heavy Fire: Shattered Spear Mastiff
Heavy Rain Quantic Dream
Hellboy: The Science of Evil Krome Studios
Heroes Over Europe Transmission Games
High Velocity Bowling Mastiff
The History Channel: Battle for the Pacific Magic Wand Productions
History Civil War: Secret Missions Cauldron HQ
The History Channel: Great Battles Medieval Slitherine Software
History Legends of War: Patton Enigma Software Productions S.L.
Hitman HD Trilogy IO Interactive
Hitman: Absolution IO Interactive
Homefront Kaos Studios

Looks like I’ve got my usual two games I’ve actually played in the group —
Heavy Rain - very important
Heavenly Sword - hmmm.... tempted to say very important, but probably is just important given poor overall impact. I’ll have to think on it. It was a really early game in the generation and set quite a tone for the quality and potential of the console.

@themcnoisy Two things popped into my head last night, buddy.

I was on PS3 scrolling around to kill ten minutes and came across Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - Deluxe Edition, which is a remastered port of the original PS Vita game. Back when we did the bat-games, we didn't rank it. Part of me thinks you might've discounted it because it's a remastered port but then I see from this week's list that HD Trilogy releases are considered, and we've considered other remastered versions of things elsewhere, so do we need to rank it? I'd obviously be happy to throw together some thoughts on it.

Secondly, thanks for putting the Hitman games on our team (yay!) but I notice you're missing Hitman: Sniper Challenge which was a separate downloadable game made available to those who pre-ordered Hitman Absolution (which it doesn't integrate with at all). Again, I can perhaps see why, as it isn't available to buy from the PS Store as a standalone download, but I was wondering if we should consider it anyway?

Happy with whatever you decide on both; just thought I'd ask!

@RogerRoger it's pal and ntsc retail only games - otherwise the list would be ridonkulous. Lol.

Unsure about Black Gate. At the end of the process we will check for missed games.

@themcnoisy Fair enough about Sniper Challenge; in fact, more than fair, I totally agree!

And okay, I'll keep Blackgate in mind for then, then. It's a pretty solid Metroidvania game and I've platinumed it twice, on both PS Vita and PS3. I know a lot of folks pushed to see it ported to console because they didn't have a PS Vita and wanted to play it.

@Th3solution Hey, at least they're different from the two games I've actually played!

***

Hitman HD Trilogy - Important

Whilst I'd really love to advocate higher, I have to be objective, regardless of this being three excellent games in one box. Taking each of the trilogy in turn, there are niggles you simply can't ignore.

Hitman 2: Silent Assassin remains a wildly-unpredictable experience, with zany A.I. and unfixed timings making repeated attempts to ace each level a nightmare, and the pacing is erratic; for every beautiful mission like St. Petersburg Stakeout or the Embassy, there's a well-meaning mess like the Hidden Valley. Little opportunity has been taken to use the HD Trilogy to fix the original PS2 release's issues. It just looks pretty and feels better to play with a DualShock3, that's all.

Hitman Contracts improves in some ways, but is still too vast and confusing at times (especially in those Siberian levels). Whilst I never played this on PS2 and therefore cannot comment on the HD Trilogy's upgrade, it feels incredibly similar to its predecessor; same engine, same inputs, nothing on any kind of scale beyond "hey, we made some new levels" (many of which are remakes from the original Hitman: Codename 47 which was never released on consoles). When you learn that this was pretty much the case, because Blood Money was taking forever to develop and they wanted to make some cash, it all makes sense. Still a great game, though.

But then the HD Trilogy does indeed contain Hitman: Blood Money which many would call the pinnacle of the series (and judging it by itself, I'd push for a "Very Important" ranking because of that legacy, even if I don't personally agree). Again, the port doesn't feel like much of an upgrade from PS2, beyond having sharper visuals, but with this third game there's an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" argument to be had.

Overall, given the quality of all three games and the effort put into the HD Trilogy, I think the "Important" categorisation is fair. I think that last part is the key to categorising these HD Trilogy releases (as I'll have thoughts on the Jak & Daxter, Splinter Cell and Tomb Raider ones, too) but feel free to disagree.

***

Hitman Absolution - Very Important

Yeah, I know. Many didn't respond well to this game, but it's the perfect product of its time. The PS3 generation was a shift towards cinematic, story-driven single player experiences and Hitman's sandbox, experimental gameplay (designed to be started and restarted over and over) was always gonna be a tough fit with a deeper narrative, but IO Interactive really made it work. Not only that, but the game is simply gorgeous, running smoothly throughout packed crowds and detailed, highly-stylised environments.

In a similar way to something like Metal Gear Solid, you're best playing Absolution twice. First time, you play it like you're watching a movie; run through on easy, get to grips with the locations and your targets and enjoy the near-grindhouse, absurd storyline. Then you go back, raise the difficulty and experiment in each of the game's levels. Restart often, set traps, find disguises and generally just have fun. A smart new challenge system helps you keep track of what's possible and what isn't, allowing you to unlock extra features and weapons for Contracts Mode.

Contracts Mode is an oft-overlooked gem. The servers on PS3 are shut down now, but the mode went on to be a huge hit in the two current-gen Hitman games, a brilliant way of introducing online elements to a strictly single player affair. Pick a level, pick a target, eliminate them however you choose and then challenge others to beat your score. It turns those supposedly-linear levels into playpens for the insane, allowing you to push yourself and change the way you play Hitman, learning from those around you.

One last thing. A common criticism levelled at Absolution was that IO Interactive "broke" the disguise system by making it more realistic, allowing certain NPCs to recognise you through a disguise (for example, the security chief might realise you weren't at the morning briefing). I'll admit, sometimes this can make certain levels seem slightly more frustrating but, since we're considering the importance of each game for this ranking, I'd argue (as IO Interactive do) that this was a vital step in creating the current "enforcer" system for the PS4 Hitman games, which is widely recognised as an excellent addition. And hey, if there's one Hitman game where you're gonna make things too realistic, make it the one where you're asking for more believability in terms of story and character.

This is just me, of course. I replayed Absolution recently and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it, because I don't usually go for things that are so relentlessly grim in places, but it's an immersive, engaging and stylish experience from beginning to end, and the risks it took and got blasted for at launch have more than paid off in the long run.

***

So yeah, that's me this week. I'll come back tomorrow and research the others.

@Th3solution @RogerRoger this group of games is awful. We will be getting the better group of games next week.

I've hardly played any either.

Guitar Hero: Aerosmith Neversoft - Not Important

Haze Free Radical Design - Not Important (and equally one of the most disappointing games ever from the makers of time splitters)

Heavy Rain Quantic Dream - Important (hate this, but many people enjoy it. From the criteria it's still viewed as a landmark game)

I have played one of the Harry Potter games but I am unsure which. Biggest ever none fan boy for that franchise. That's me done

Hey team 404, just thought I'd pop in... It's not much but I have played guitar hero Metallica!

Haven't actually played any other guitar hero or Rock Band games at all... But I immensely enjoyed my time with it being a big 'tallica fan and metal head in general

Guitar Hero: Metallica has SUCH a good playlist of just the band's tracks, yet alone some classics such as Thin Lizzy's Boys are Back in Town, Slayer's War Ensemble, Queen's Stone Cold Crazy, Diamond Head's Am I Evil?, Judas Priest's Hell Bent for Leather and a bunch of other tracks!

Obviously if you aren't much of a rock or especially a metal fan then you probably wouldn't enjoy this as much and I think it sold decently.

But a lot of love and care was put into the release with a nice difficulty curve, pretty much no dlc barring a few tracks from Death Magnetic, making of videos.

If I remember right I think Metallica was happy to make new masters of their older songs as well til they managed to find them stashed away somewhere... While Lemmy from Motörhead and King Diamond from Mercyful Fate did end up recording new vocals for Ace of Spades and Evil respectively

Plus they did extensive mo cap for the performances as did Metallica and the band in question chose the other 21 tracks to go into the game too

All in all a really good game. Not sure where exactly I'd place it though. I'd like to say important as it was well received and a lot of care was put into it, but you could put it in Existing too...

That's your decision however not mine!

Also not sure if you saw @Th3solution but I did reply to your question about my thoughts on Dark Souls 3 to Bloodborne on the previous page of the Top 5 list thread!

@themcnoisy As somebody who plays a few games to death, rather than somebody who plays tons of games once, I actually don't mind the weeks where I have to do a lot of research. I feel I'm in less danger of letting my personal opinion derail my objectivity then.

I shall return with said research tomorrow!

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Thanks for your thoughts on Guitar Hero: Metallica. As somebody who screams and runs away from rock music (despite having seen Iron Maiden in concert once... don't ask) I'm really grateful for your perspective. Will incorporate that into my vote, at least!

Do you even see what you did there?

Also, I really rather enjoyed Haze - I recall it being around in a pretty lean release period.

And Heavenly Sword (despite the IP going nowhere!) was very important for the system I think. Total sigil-bearer for the PS3.

@KALofKRYPTON
I played Haze from start to finish in split screen co-op. The legendary TimeSplitters devs hyped Haze as being the best FPS on PS3.

As it turned out there was no way the game could live up to the hype. But it was indeed fun, had some cool ideas and it played well. For an early ps3 game, they did a commendable job I think.

@KALofKRYPTON Yeah, I was wavering on Heavenly Sword. I think ‘very important’ could be justified for the reason you state. Artistically it is fantastic as well. Visually appealing and Nariko’s movements are almost balletic, as I recall. I think it did inspire future titles and was a flagship for the PS3 and for Ninja Theory. Perhaps it came out a touch too soon before the PS3 attach rate was high enough to really make an impact. In that way it’s analogous to The Order 1886 for PS4 where the production value is great, the gameplay perhaps a little underwhelming when compared to later games, but so artistically and aesthetically sound. It’s a shame (for both franchises) that it didn’t spur sequels. And now if there ever is a sequel, I’ll have to get an Xbox to play it! 😛