Topic: Moderation

@Tasuki It’s a bit murkier than that. For example, if you treated a trans woman negatively based on the fact they were a woman then yes, that would be sexism. However, if you treated them negatively based on them being a trans woman, that’s transphobia. Distinct issues but linked.

@nessisonett That's the same thing. If you treat someone bad due to their sex, it's sexism. Being trans doesn't have anything to do with it it's still treating someone wrong based on their sex.

@Tasuki does that make homophobes sexist?

@Tasuki
Nope, definitely not the same thing. Targeting someone (such as with verbal abuse) because of their transgender-identity is a hate crime. Sexism currently isn't a hate crime.

@Tasuki What @nessisonett said - transphobia is distinct from sexism. It's not the same thing at all. Homophobia certainly wouldn't be covered by sexism, either.

@Kidfried They could add it, but it's quite broad, especially because it covers all offensive remarks. I.e. ''if you're a d%&!, you'll get banned''.

Maybe @antdickens can broaden the definition to include it?

@Octane It would certainly be a positive step to update the community rules. However, in and of itself I don't think it goes far enough. For one thing, how many users even read it? It is also reactionary to deal with individual comments that have to typically be reported before anything is done. An article making a direct statement on the issue, plus a reminder in every article likely to attract homophobic and/or transphobic comments - or indeed any form of bigotry - would be a much bolder show of support. For example, articles similar to the Naughty Dog/Last of Us Part II ones, or the recent Harry Potter one.

@mookysam Well, if it's in the community rules, there is a good basis to warn users/ban them. They can't argue with it, because that's essentially what they signed up to.

I personally don't think they need to devote an article to it, because I think it's (or should be) just common decency! But that's up to the staff of course.

@Octane Of course it is common decency, but many people unfortunately lack that.

@mookysam
I would welcome that, although actions speak louder than words. If users are seen to constantly act in a toxic manner, with no obvious consequences, it will attract more of the same, as people will see they can get away with it. Broken window theory, it's a slippery slope to ignore it.

I've not been as active on here, mainly due to work pressures and I've been doing a few other things on some other sites (doing articles and features). That said, I still check Push Square for news etc. regularly and try and pop up here and there.

I'd agree that toxicity has increased but I'd put that down to an increase in traffic (so kudos to Push Square - I see the site referenced regularly in other articles and youtube videos) and 2020.

I mean toxicity has existed horrendously for years and Push Square has done well to maintain high standards in the community. I have no evidence but it just seems that this year has turned that toxicity up to eleven. People are being triggered by anything and everything - and I don't mean triggered in the typical online insult way, but in people just being so vociferous in anything they don't agree with (whether they are responding to someone else or someone has responded to them). People can't seem to accept that others are different - they see that difference as a criticism somehow. I'll group myself in there sometimes - I've taken a step back from some discussions because I see myself getting annoyed or being too intense in my response. I've apologise a few times on here because I've gone off on one.

I have very different tastes and world experiences to some on Push Square but that is why I should come here. Because I need my views challenged. I like reading the User Impressions thread because I don't play a lot of those games that people like but seeing different communities and likes are great.

The one exception, is, of course, hate speech veiled under free speech. 2020 is the year it seems when the idea of banning abhorrent political views is in and of itself seeing to curtail free speech. Which is utter madness. The idea of anti-trans, homophobic, racist or sexism EVER being allowed as free speech is horrible. How can espousing hate by stating that one group should not be allowed equality be allowed as anything other than free speech?

This isn't a Push Square issue but a societal one but it is one that is happenng globally and oddly, Video Games are right on the front line. Gamers come from across a wide spectrum but there is a provable link with some gaming communities and political movements. Gamer gate anyone? So when a story comes up like the Harry Potter game whereby the publisher has had to go out of their way to try and distance themselves from the creator of the world because of their frankly quite disgusting propaganda against trans people, that is a video game story but it touches RIGHT on the fault line. People are coming to Push Square to argue now. The next console gen should be a time to celebrate in the gaming community - everyone has their own preferences but what is the use in arguing? I had someone tell my my comment that Gamepass was good value was not true because they wouldn't play many games from it?

I miss Tasuki from the site. I miss those people from the community that have left because they had unique voices. I think Push Square is a great site and I have seen the editors get stuck in with comments etc. in a way a lot of other sites don't. I do not think they would ever late hate messaging in just to keep engagement up. I do think that more moderation is needed and maybe an appeals process but I'm not privy to the type of resourcing or cost that would entail. But I think it may be necessary if growth and 2020 continue as they are.

@mookysam I agree, but I don't think a small disclaimer at the bottom of an article is going to solve that. So it's always going to be reactionary to some extent unfortunately.

@Rudy_Manchego
Very well said. I think the timing of the whole using free speech as a defence for discrimination and spewing hate is curious, what with fake news and misinformation being at an all time high.

No doubt it's been used successfully against people who lack confidence or aren't well versed on what free speech actually allows for. Of course toxic people often have a tendency to interpret rules and laws in whatever way benefits them.
It's important we don't allow people to get away with this sort of awful behaviour.

@LieutenantFatman Agree completely - here is the problem with fake news claims and the likes of Trump and Cummings etc. using the don't trust everything routine - it upsets the status quo and gets previously unthinkable things like a Trump election in but it means you undermine everything else. Now you want people to actually do something - like wear a mask, and you get people saying how can I trust that? No way, this goes against the freedom you said I should have.

I genuinely wonder if there would have been so much anti-mask sentiment 10-15 years ago? I wear a seatbet, I wash my hands after going to the bog, I wait for traffic to stop before walking out. At what point did common sense become a partisan movement?

@Rudy_Manchego When thinking stopped becoming a common thing

Seriously, everyone wears a seat belt, because that's just common sense. How many people are protesting that seat belts are taking their freedom away? None. People don't mind following rules, the problem is when they are politicised, which seems to be very easy nowadays. Anything can be ''fake news'' if you want it to be.

@Octane (Fake) news just in, seatbelts make it hard to breathe and we’re holding the children back by forcing them to wear seatbelts against their will. Won’t anybody think of the children?

Sad thing is, that would probably get circulation on Facebook.

I think seat belts were actually something that certain groups fought against when they were introduced in motor cars. I can't remember the exact details so apologies but it might have either been the the individual driver or motor companies that were against it. It's really weird to think about these days. I wouldn't drive without a seat belt!

@ralphdibny Yeah, I believe that were the car companies. I've heard about that before.

@Octane Yep - to me, wearing a mask is common sense. Covid-19 is in the air from breathing - wear a mask, stop your germs infecting others, maybe improved protection for yourself. OK, will do. However someone has politicised it and now millions think it is stupid.

I just want to echo what @get2sammyb has said, it's something we have been discussing recently and changes will be made in due course. In the meantime please continue to report comments that break the rules and we'll address them as quickly as we can. We're keen to continue to changes things to make it a better place for the many