As has been obvious for some time, Sony is cracking down on sexually explicit material as it pertains to questionably aged characters. While the specifics of its regulations remain underwraps, a Wall Street Journal report on the recently introduced policy reveals that the Japanese company has become increasingly concerned that its “global reputation” could take a hit from “sexually explicit content sold only in a few markets”. It’s talking about titles like Dead or Alive Xtreme 3: Scarlet here.
According to the aforementioned publication, the PlayStation maker has been paying attention to movements such as #MeToo, as well as the rise in popularity of game streaming on sites such as YouTube and Twitch. In essence, it’s concerned by content which may be perceived as demeaning to women – and, in particular, titles which appear to depict underage characters in sexually explicit situations. Franchises like Senran Kagura, for example, are guilty here.
Because developers have to get Sony’s approval before releasing on the PS4, it’s requesting alterations or changes to software that it deems to be inappropriate. Nintendo, for the record, told the Wall Street Journal that it doesn’t currently regulate titles in this way, while Microsoft declined to comment. All games are legally required to obtain an age rating from national bodies such as the ESRB, but PlayStation is adding an extra layer which is frustrating some creators.
“You don’t know what they will say until you complete the work and submit it for review,” said one CEO from a small Japanese games developer. “And if they are not happy, even if they allowed the same degree of sexuality a few days before, we need to take it back and ask our staff to make adjustments. That’s very costly.” Clearly the platform holder needs to be a lot more transparent about what is and isn’t acceptable here.
There’ll be a lot of debate over this, we’re sure. Some may feel that sexually explicit content is no worse than the gratuitous violence found in franchises like God of War and Mortal Kombat, but there’s no question that minigames involving the molestation of children are unacceptable. It’s a debate that’s going to rumble on, but one thing’s clear here: Sony has made its bed and it seems set to lie in it.
[source wsj.com, via resetera.com]
Comments 87
'but there’s no question that minigames involving the molestation of children are unacceptable in this current climate'
errr when were they ever?
Only people that will be upset about censoring depictions of underage children will be pedophiles.
@quinnyboy58 Fair point, edited.
If Sony is going to institute strict content guidelines, then they need to be incredibly transparent about what is or isn't acceptable. Is it only young characters? Young-looking characters? What is a "sexually explicit situation?"
The fact that Japanese devs don't know what is or isn't acceptable to publish on the platform is a major issue. While I'm still incredibly opposed to the idea of content regulation on top of what is already policed by national ratings boards, I would be more comfortable with something that felt more like a clear set of guidelines and less like an emotional reaction to fanservice games from people working at the company in California.
Companies in general are walking tightropes these days, Sony are no different. You could argue has society in general gotten softer?
@AdamNovice As far as I know, there has been no big public outcry about Sony hosting Senran Kagura games, or games in a similar vein. Hardly anyone even knows they exist, and the majority of people who do don't care one way or the other. So I reject the notion that Sony is doing what it has to do to protect its image.
In general, when the content that is being 'censored' shows underage characters in sexual situations, I wouldn't consider that censorship. Child pornography is removed from the internet when it crops up as it is illegal in most, if not all, countries. Why is it then that when games with pretty vulgar content are removed, there's a massive outcry from people concerned about censorship? While yes, books exist with underage sex as a subject matter, they aren't interactive. Honestly, if you find virtually fiddling with kids fun then it's not too much of a leap towards being branded a paedophile.
Gamers want Sony to take a clear stance on this, devs want Sony to take a clear stance on this and I think Sony themselves would prefer to have a more clear stance on this.
From the start it has been clear that they just don't know what they're doing with this. I followed some courses on gender studies and stuff, just hire me, if you're really desperate.
Yet to be bothered personally if I’m honest. I doubt I will be. I love how Xbox is just like, we don’t even get these weird games man, so we won’t take a PR hit either way.
@nessisonett Censorship can be really good too. You're not allowed to write someone a letter saying you're going to kill them. Censoring it is actually a good thing, y'know.
So, someone could call it censorship, but that doesn't make it bad per se. When someone says the word "censorship" people immediately think of China, but there's jusitified censorship too.
"Nintendo, for the record, told the Wall Street Journal that it doesn’t currently regulate titles in this way..." No wonder there's so much shovelware on the eshop.
Anyways, topic at hand! If a game contains any type of underage sexual acts, I don't blame Sony for regulating that. That's obviously frowned upon in the majority of the world.
Japan likes to make majority of their characters around the age of 14 or someone 100+ years with the body of a child.
I agree about restricting underage sexual content.
And some immature content.
The rest is BS though.
@get2sammyb "but there’s no question that minigames involving the molestation of children are unacceptable."
Absolutely agreed. I don't condone it in any way, but I do wonder what's your view on murdering other NPCs? Because in book, commiting a murder is just as bad, if not worse. I also think that's the slippery slope here; why one, and not the other? If you break the argument down, it doesn't really hold up. So I also understand why people are talking about "double standards".
Anyway, I'm going back to play some more God of War
@Xaessya thats the problem right there. Can a company allow a game depicting a girl that looks like a minor (but is also 100+ years old, thats anime I guess) engaged in sexual activities? technically this is A-OK coz that girl is 100+ yrs old but how is that any different than just putting a character that is actually underage in the same scenario? Anime has always been in a grey are when it comes to censorship. I think the real problem is why are these VN game devs so fixated on creating a character that looks like a minor on these kind of games
@Deadlyblack Whatever happened to that famous Nintendo "Seal of Quality"
Why not sell two versions, one censored, one rated 18+. That picture is rather disturbing, btw.
@Kidfried "You're not allowed to write someone a letter saying you're going to kill them. Censoring it is actually a good thing, y'know."
Not really the same thing, though. Threatening to kill people isn't any sort of artistic expression, it's just a threat of violence against a real person.
@Sinton Very disturbing, uhu.
When I think about it, what Sony does doesn't seem so strange. There's no other mainstream media outlet that would accept this. You don't see this in the cinema, book stores or what have you.
@Ralizah I'm not saying "because you're not allowed to do that, you're not allowed to do this." Just that there are good forms of censorship. In art too, a documentary glorifying glorifying racism wouldn't air anywhere.
@Octane We've come a long way from Super Mario Bros. goomba stomping to MKs depiction of Ultra Violence, like it or not Killing NPCs has been a huge part of gaming history be it a monster or humanoid in form, we've been conditioned to think that we are not killing an actual living being, we're just eliminating an obstacle in the game.
@Kidfried Lol Death of a Nation still got released. Unfortunately humans are invariably worse than you could ever imagine.
@Kidfried Mario broke the seal and 9 months later out popped Baby Mario.
I'm in agreement with pretty much everyone here.
Violence is in most action films, war is omnipresent we actually have recruitment campaigns and fighting is a hobby, sport and event. Its bang out of order for members of a pedo network to even compare that to the disgusting pedophilic content being pumped out by certain developers.
It's illegal and should be treated as such.
@Octane I did mention that in the article to be fair. I personally do think it's different, but I can see where the debate comes from.
@Kidfried I'll say that some censorship is probably inevitable in any society. Considering the effects it has on artistic expression and freedom, though, I think it should be as minimal as humanly possible. We already have a standard of allowing art to show acts that are morally impermissible to act out in real life to begin with.
@Ralizah Whether the games in question are niche is probably irrelevant. It's more to do what Sony finds acceptable for games to get on its store.
Given that games like DMC 5 got censored (later uncensored) and DOAX3 Scarlet being censored despite having not kids on the game, i don't trust them. Thankfully there's always the Switch/PC.
@octane @Jriibz thats the thing there's a specific audience for these kinds of games, they like seeing depictions of underage girls engaging in sexual activities in games ( I also think they're sick in the head). Earlier I said that killing NPCs in games is not morally wrong because your not exactly killing living beings, your altering a set of data to progress the game, the same logic can also be used by the audience of these Dating Sim like games. They'd just argue "but we're not actually engaging in sexual activities in minors, its just a game"(but hey if you feel nothing wrong about the implied sexual engagement with a minor then I'll be damned) . this subject is pretty much on the morally gray area ( aside from my personal opinion that games with these premises are just wrong) and I think there can never be a truly correct answer for this problem it all boils down to what the platform holder thinks is better for their platform.
Personally I'd go for Ban games with underage girls or Just switch out those underage with older and more appropriate characters
@Jriibz Of course, that was a joke, but there are also ''realistic'' games out there. GTA, obviously comes to mind, but you also kill people in anything from Tomb Raider, to Uncharted, Horizon Zero Dawn, etc.
And I'm not saying that is wrong as well, I'm just curious where the ''double standard'' comes from so to speak. Why are we fine with one, but not the other? Even though in real life murdering someone tends to have higher repercussions.
I’ve always said censorship sucks. You know, removing stuff like cigarettes, violence/gore, alcohol, curse words from games, comic books etc. But I definitely understand Sony on the Senran Kagura stuff.
@AdamNovice Clearly. So Sony is proactively policing content and enforcing moral restrictions on content published on its platform. I don't think it's walking any tightropes or managing with social expectations placed on it by society. People in the company are taking a stand.
I just wanted to make the distinction explicit. Thank you.
@Jriibz Should games which allow you to torture people or murder innocents, like GTA V, be censored?
@Jriibz I mean, there are plenty of games that allow you to murder anyone you want, innocent or not, so it clearly doesn't apply to every situation.
No loli-gagging.
@Jriibz Sorry, but I'm calling foul on that. Plenty of these games have been published on their platforms with a minimum of controversy. As I said, most people don't even know or care about these games. Sony is clearly taking a stand.
As to the torture scene: so you think special allowances should be made for content if you find the depiction to be instructive? A "propaganda allowance" for content that promotes messages you think should be promoted?
There's a line to be drawn somewhere, but I don't think Sony have got it quite right. I'd prefer it if it was left to the laws of the land and the age ratings boards to decide on what is suitable, and not have Sony adding an extra layer of interference.
@Jriibz I guess you do have a point right there!
@ApostateMage never touch the Lolis
@Jriibz In general, it's not a great idea to tie what someone is allowed to depict in a piece of entertainment to any consideration of social value. Both because social standards of morality change over time and because it's tyrannical to push your moral standards on other people over and above basic standards already enshrined in the law.
And I HIGHLY doubt Sony has government operatives breathing down their necks. Why wouldn't Nintendo? Why wouldn't the ratings boards which OK the release of these games in the first place? There is no reason to think this is not a pro-active policing of content based on internal guidelines that weren't forced upon it.
@Ralizah @Jriibz Manhunt (that game made by rockstar) which is graphically violent and disturbing where you play as a character which actively participates in torturing (or rather you are committing actual torture) is apparently legal. I guess arguing about this is useless as we are just at the whims of what "those in charge" think is morally right and morally wrong. If they say ahem "loli-gagging" is allowed then thats the way it goes I guess ( still think its sick in the head tho)
I like nintendo way better, let the ESRB handle it since it's their job.
@wiiware even better
@Octane Violence is more readily accepted and more ingrained in our culture. People after all flocked to Rome to watch people get eaten by lions for sport, or those that watched public executions. Heck we still watch boxing and wrestling today.
Sex and sexual content has an element of taboo around it and still has an air of awkwardness for many.
@Jriibz fair point. even if they censored games like senran kagura I wont be buying them anyway (I'm more on the Ghibli side on the anime spectrum). I just want Sony not to be all draconian when it comes to censorship and have Kratos slapping Odin till he's unconscious in GoW's sequel.
@Jriibz None of the games being censored by Sony have illegal content. If they were illegal, the federal government would have banned them like they did with the PC game RapeLay.
And while being able to slap the butt of a clothed teenager in a game might have an ick factor for you, you'd be hard-pressed to call it "child molestation."
None of the games being censored feature "child molestation." At worst, they involve provocative displays of women who are either teenaged or are vaguely young-looking.
And, to be perfectly honest, if Sony's censorship began and ended with purely interactive elements like the dressing room in SK games, I doubt so many people would be upset. But we're getting to the point where girls in Japanese games wearing bathing suits are being censored. It's ridiculous.
And Western games get a free pass with the ultra violence and nudity in their games...
@WanderingBullet to be fair. I can play Fist of the Northstar and RE:2s gore is vividly depicted, they're both japanese games and they're both on the violent side, Games like Nier:Automata can still exist, we can still have that android booty while not feeling awkward at the sight of teenage girls being uhhh caressed by an octopus
Lets not make it about western games or japanese games being treated differently. If a western developer created a game like senran kagura I'm sure they'd be on the same predicament
@Jriibz I'm disputing both your alarmist, emotional use of language as well your apparent inability to distinguish fantasy and reality.
Nobody thinks slapping a girl's butt in real life isn't sexual harassment. But, no, I don't think interacting with a digital teenager's clothed butt is "child molestation." Words matter.
Granted, computer models don't have an age at all, so I disagree with the premises of the conversation to begin with. I don't think groping a cartoon character is child molestation or sexual harassment any more than kicking a turtle in a Mario game is animal abuse.
@LuckyErika The problem is that just because Japanese culture is different, a lot of this stuff is considered problematic around the globe. And PlayStation is now an American company with global appeal. Whether you agree or disagree, I'm sure you can appreciate why they'd want to distance themselves from this sort of thing — especially when it only really pertains to one small territory.
@themcnoisy @Kidfried They’re really non-comparable. There’s a reason it’s fine for kids to play with nerf guns but not pretend to do other things being talked about here to each other.
@LuckyErika Uh, how is checking out virtual 10 year olds confronting paedophiles? Surely, it’s only helping them get their jollies off which, unless you condone paedophilic content, is insanely harmful?
@Ralizah I think they as a company know what they want? I keep saying it just avoid characters that look like childeren. But i also think a but of a adult woman isnt something shocking.
@LuckyErika So if i ask a Japanese person if child molesting is a culteral thing i wont get a mad Japanese person. I dont believe its like that i really dont.
@Ralizah You married or have kids ask your wife or husband girlfriend or boyfriend i cant believe they would agree.
@JJ2 Totally agree about that. But then again feeling up women in that way is somewhat nasty and i can agree that some women would not like that. 😉
Sorry I don't buy it, DOAX3 Scarlet only has adults and is being censored. DMC5 was censored (till we got on Sony's throats) and Trish is a old ass grown woman.
If Nintendo who basically only advertises itself as the console for families and little kids doesn't bother censoring the SAME damn games what makes Sony so freaking unique?
@LuckyErika you have gone completely over the top here. There's a huge clamour for inclusivity In gaming atm which is a positive. If you play senran kagura and suchlike you would have a better idea of how distasteful it is. Are we talking art here or titalation?
'Just like prohibition, censorship and any other form of repression just makes things worse and more volatile, never better'
Prohibition is one example which hasn't worked. Alcohol has always been a staple part of Western society ever since Mead was invented so its no surprise really. It's a completely different subject.
A better example I would use is the old topless models from newspapers. Every newspaper had to ditch that as it had become socially unacceptable. That's proved to be positive. You can always go elsewhere to find topless models.
An important part of the conversation is pornography was banned in Japan after losing in WW2. That's why hentai became so popular. Its got nothing to do with looking back to the Japanese teenage years so that's a ruse.
The reality is to a typical westerner that the games in question are juvenile or inappropriate at best. Regardless of your own opinion that is how it is.
It's simple innit.. To all the pervs go play on a PC or switch! Move your complaint to choice and pay with your wallet - don't buy PS5. I'm a guy and flipping glad that Sony is moving in this direction. Don't want my mates young daughters or any young women to be depicted this way. If someone wants their 'kick' there's plenty on the net and downtown! Sticky joypays ewwww!
Oh dear...........here's my final take on this (my own opinion I'm not claiming to be right when I say this):
Although I think playing these kind of games are morally wrong, I dont think this has any criminal basis either, consumers of these kind of games tend to avoid contact with people, their sole focus would be the characters in the game, be it a minor or looks like a minor but is also 100+ yrs old. lets keep in mind they're not actual people they're fictional characters inside a screen. its our own individual perception of whats morally right and wrong that causes us to pass these rather extreme judgements and I believe this is where Sony stands, Sony believes its in their best interest to censor these games (though it would be much better if they just let ESRB do their jobs).
If it comes to that that Sony says No to these Kind of games, then its in your right to abandon the brand all together or find another platform to play these kinds of games. Sony doesnt hold the whole gaming market, just because Sony started censoring doesnt mean the whole market would follow suit. Get them from steam, games like these dont require that much processing power your daily driver pc will do you just fine.
@nessisonett There’s a vast difference between child pornography and a video game with characters who appear to be underage. The fact that CP has actual victims being the biggest one. You’re either being willfully ignorant or dishonest, take your pick.
@Juanalf hey man just so you know I played DMC V on PC (v1.03 i think? I played it pretty early on) and Lady's "derriere" crack also had that Lens flare and also Trish got the censorship treatment, the censorship was not limited to the PS4 Platform man. Dont be saying things without doing research.
P.S you can find it on forum posts on Steam,
P.P.S Ok so apparently you can turn off the Censorship on PC (never really cared about it as long as I get to pull that devil trigger, oh well hooray PCMR I guess) BUTT (see what I did there?) the censorship is still there as an option so my point still stands
@WrightStuff hey isnt Catherine a pretty smooth sail when it comes to PR its not like she was depicted as a Loli (cant think of a better term sorry) in the game, or did I miss out on the drama?
@Amplified I like your post. The way I see it, at the end of the day it’s just a game. No matter how stupid, goofy, violent, sexual, etc a game is, I never take it seriously. I say let the ERSB handle this stuff, but it is what it is.
@shonenjump86 cheers to that
@WrightStuff
So I did miss out
@WrightStuff Now that’s case and point of the whole ‘different cultures’ argument. While treatment of Trans people is getting (slowly) better in Western society, in Japan there’s culturally still an association with fetish-based porn. That’s why the handling of Erika comes off a bit distasteful to Western audiences as it’s being viewed from a different culture. If they’re releasing the game over here then maybe some changes will be made through the translation same as they do with cultural references. Whereas, at the end of the day, child porn is pretty much seen as abhorrent everywhere and while they’re virtual children, it’s not hard to see why paedophiles living out their fantasies could be harmful.
@LuckyErika Just a tip for next time you compare people to Nazis, Reductio ad Hitlerum rarely works.
@Xaessya That or japan has a pretty strong obsssesion with Dwarfism
I just wish gamers don't mix everything again. Just like accessibility is different than easy mode, mature content is different than immature content.
@LuckyErika Either leave from this site or stop comparing people to Nazi.
@Ralizah I agree with you. I'm liberal in that regard. I want Sony to take a clearer stance on what they're allowing, not a stricter stance.
thank you sony! you are the last company who actually puts effort into curation of such twisted content that is not only demeaning to women, but also unethical and illegal as it can feature underage-looking characters. we need to prevent psychological disorders that stem from the consumption of pedophilia such as this. those who consume this material need help and this is a step in the right direction.
Holy crap this comments section is an even bigger dumpster fire than I imagined.
Nope.
Just Googling quickly for a definition:
Sexually explicit; for example pictures of sexual activity or of a naked person displaying their genitals, buttocks or breasts. An image leaving little to the imagination can generally be defined as sexually explicit.
I just want to make sure my understanding is correct on the term because I thought explicit would mean full nudity or sex, which apart from The Witcher and GTA I'm struggling to think of any games that do contain such. Senran Kagura for instance is suggestive but not explicit as far as I'm aware.
Just play yakuza from some real women. Problem solved
Remember folks, fictional girls who don't exist being portrayed in lewd manners is wildly offensive and unacceptable. However fictional character violently murdering people by the tens, dozens, hundreds, or more, okay for teenagers!
Remember people, visible boobs are for adults only, but a game where you can drop a nuke on Canada is okay for teenagers!
Remember everyone, a literal minigame built around torturing a prisoner is okay to have on PS4, (GTA 5) but if you show an anime girl with frosting on her boobs, it has to be censored!
Grotesque violence is okay! But sex is the most evil and vile thing in the universe!
@Amplified I get what you mean but just recently they censored a brief nudity scene in DMC5 and yet they have no issues nudity and sex in games like The Witcher 3, the Mass Effect series, Far Cry games and even Cyberpunk 2077. If I remember correctly even The Order 1886 had a brief nudity scene. Which is why I feel there's a bit of double standards going on.
@WanderingBullet that scene in dmc v has been reverted back. sony has no problem with MATURE content. sex between two adults is not a problem. nudity of a mature lady is not a problem. what is a problem is breast fondling mini games with characters that look like they are 12 years old. see the difference?
Of course I see the difference. I don't condone sexually explicit depictions of underage characters in any media. Thing is games like Senran Kagura are niche games. Looking at trailers people should already know what they're getting into before they buy Senran Kagura games. I'm not even sure if Senran Kagura games are commercially successful outside of Japan but the other games that I've mentioned above are. Sony have just as big of an issue with young people playing or getting to exposed to games like The Witcher 3, the Mass Effect series, Far Cry games, Mortal Kombat just to name a few.
@WanderingBullet They do well enough that they keep localizing them.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of censoring games for whatever reasons, the bottom line is that the company has decided to go down a path of its own accord and it has that right, just as those who oppose these things also have a right to go elsewhere for their tastes. I'm no moralistic high ground taker by a long shot, but i have my opinions on what is right or wrong from my upbringing and cultural exposure and make my decisions that way, as its the only way.
And with that, no one will ever be completely happy. Its the nature of the situation when you factor these simple things in, along with age, life experiences etc.
I dont particualrly have an interest in the sort of games mentioned, i in fact find them a little tasteless and they often give off a preconception of underage characters that are sexualised, however if the regulatory boards are not stopping these releases featuring certain content, then who am i to argue, regardless of my personal opinion on them,
So are the rules wrong? outdated?
I mean, do they see the minigames? do they play them to get to see the content? Do they believe the content is okay to view or play?
I would like to understand why, not from a basis of my own opinion, but to understand how they interpret the content themselves, which would in turn lead to better understanding of this whole mess, more for my idle curiosity about this particular section of censorship.
Social media is having such a huge influence of late and bringing certain behaviours /ideaologies etc to the surface. Introspection across the board, is a massive thing now, which in a lot of aspects is great, but what we must do, is be wary of using this to adapt others into changing things for the sake of it. That is quite the challenge and for many, very difficult. Not all subjects can be dealt with in broad strokes and censorship is one of them
Large companies are now also at the behest of this introspective time too and yes some companies like Sony have decided to make a stance (albeit in a very unbalanced manner) on certain types of content, while others have not..
This isnt something new, even within gaming.. I remember when the stereotype of Ash, the gay boss in Streets Of Rage 3 was removed for the western release by Sega back in the day due to potential offense. While something like Custers Last Stand would never exist in today's climate... thankfully.
As for the answer to it all, i dont know...but the lines of common decency and censorship continue to shift back and forth, and will do for decades to come.
@WanderingBullet well, in addition to the other issues stated above, it is also the perception of sony that sony cares about the most. the last thing they want is for someone on twitch to stream one of those pervy games and to have reporter make a news story on it. the headline would be "pedophilia games on playstation". nobody wants to deal with the fallout that would ensue. it is bad for brand image and it is bad for business. can anyone blame sony for not wanting anything to do with this stuff? like i said, sony does not have a problem with content when it comes to violence or mature themes so long as it does not steer into perverted territory. if cyberpunk has nudity, sony will not censor it because it will be done in a tasteful way and won't be exploitative like with many japanese pedo-perve games. sony is a japanese company and even they are embarrassed of some of the games their own people are putting out. that says a lot, doesn't it?
@Porco Senran Kagura games have been around for so many years now. I checked and the first one was released back in 2011. So why are Sony only deciding to censor it now? Seems like they're worried about their image since like you said games get more exposure now via streamers. Maybe they're just doin' a Disney. I supported Disney when they sacked James Gunn but then they rehired him when the dust settled.
@WanderingBullet Still where are the underage characters there?
@Amplified Just create characters that look adult i think and dont release games like Labyrinth Z i dont know if its the correct name. 😁
@dellyrascal That depiction of a gay character was really bad i saw it on a youtube video.
I think the best way to tackle it is to use clear guidelines. That is the easy way for developers.
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