The president of SCEJA has seemingly provided the first official comment on the censorship row that has affected multiple PlayStation games over the past few months. Posted on Japanese website Ebitsu.net – but without official translation or verification just yet – Atsushi Morita purportedly told attendees at a Japan Studio event that “expression restrictions [have been] adjusted to the global standards”. He apparently concluded: “Considering the balance between freedom of expression and safety to children, I think that it is a difficult problem.”
Sony has controversially requested changes to a number of games now, many of which depicting underage children in compromising positions. In some games you’re able to touch and fondle the minors against their will; others merely place them in highly sexualised situations. Sometimes the characters are attributed adult ages in the fiction, despite their appearance suggesting otherwise.
One such franchise that’s been affected is Senran Kagura, and the producer of the latest game Kenichiro Takaki has told Akiba Souken that the next title in the series is going to take time as it deals with these new regulations. “We have to make games in a way that they aren’t misunderstood,” he said, as translated by Gematsu. “Certain things are harder than they’ve ever been before. Given that, I think [the game] is going to take some time.”
This is a story that’s going to rumble and rumble, and it’s become such a hot topic because fans are divided over it. Many feel that the ratings boards exist to filter content, and game creators should be able to release whatever they like as long as it abides those guidelines. Others argue that Sony, as the platform holder, has a right to restrict the release of highly sexual content involving minors. Some may counter that murder and violence is accepted, so how is this any different?
As Morita himself put it: it’s a difficult problem.
[source ebitsu.net, via akiba-souken.com, gematsu.com]
Comments 131
Let's bare in mind that the guy is only saying what he's been told too. Even then it doesn't necessarily represent what Sony's policy actually is. Also when he says "children" he may well have been talking about content curation in general rather then games like Seran kagura. But that's the problem when quotes come out of Japan cos most of the time it gets taken out of context.
In other words think before you fly off the handle before making absurd claims like "arrogant Sony back again" or "I'll just go to Switch or Xbox".
"Many of which depicting underage children in compromising positions. In some games you’re able to touch and fondle the minors against their will; others merely place them in highly sexualised situations. "
So who's outraged at this, Pedophiles?
Watching this comments section like
If they mean children playing the being protecting I’m not sure I agree, as much the concept of the minors being so sexualized in general. I also don’t buy the whole violence content argument. Not much has been proven regarding violence in media and real life problems. Porn on the other can be a dangerous addiction. So there’s a difference between the two.
I also think there’s a reason we presented to kill each other as kids but not other things.
Let's be clear: by and large, these games are sexualizing fictional high school age girls. You can criticize that sort of depiction, but let's not act like they're banning kiddy diddling sims or something.
@3MonthBeef I’m sure the developers much prefer this as opposed to dancing around what they present to Sony and risk the whole game being permently being banned. If a developer was only making a game for PlayStation they’d be freaking screwed.
I noticed the game has been delayed again. This time to January.
@3MonthBeef How is your solution more beneficial to the developer? PS is the biggest install base right now.
@3MonthBeef I don’t think any of the changes made or going to make or break sales. Heck, I probably enjoyed Nekopara even more with its changes. If you thought you’d enjoy it before the changes, you still should after anyway. They’re also being Vol 2. To the PS4, so I’d looks like even with said censorship there’s money for them to bring the game to the PS4. You’re argument isn’t holding water right now and you don’t have any proof to back it up. The idea that banning the game’s complete is more beneficial to the devs makes no sense. They would just quit if that was true.
Most appropriate use ever of the Simpsons "wont' somebody think of the children" gif.
Another interesting point is, that he speaks of "adjusting to global standards". That said, a "switch to... Switch and Xbox (no pun intended)", which is currently being considered by many Anime fans, would not make much sense, right? By "global standards," I understand, that sooner or later, Nintendo and Microsoft will also have to adjust to corresponding policies and their creative freedom will be limited as well, will it not?
(Edit: Deleted my last comment. The gif freezed my Vita. Yes, I'm browsing and tiping with that thing. Lawl. )
@WanderingBullet I noticed that too, I believe it was supposed to come out in October or so.
@rjejr do you still drinks Wilkins coffee😂word up son
Kinda wondering what they will do with the next Senran Kagura game. Make all the girls over 18?
@AdamNovice Nintendo is still far more liberal with anything sexual on their platform. Period. Sony wouldn't even allow Super Seducer on their system and pulled the plug the day of release.
It's ridiculous. There's far worse out there then a few "ninja boobies", and Sony needs to grow up. Let consumers choose the content they want. WE keep THEM in business, not the other way round.
Sony absolutely has the right to make these changes, but I think they'll probably drop it eventually as the bad publicity (even though from a vocal minority) outweighs whatever good they think they'll get from the policy.
The very fact that games like this have existed for years on PlayStation systems (and even currently elsewhere) without any issue, and the fact that anime like Maken-Ki, Kill la Kill, High School DXD (and heck, even Hollywood films like Fast Times at Ridgemont High) exist uncensored openly on mainstream venues such as iTunes, Google Play, & Amazon Video both prove that this content neither comes close to breaking the law, and that the mass market doesn't really care.
@Lando_ I don't know, Nintendo has even allowed some soft core porn games on the switch eshop recently. They've suddenly become very lax with sexual content. To suddenly do a hard 180 seems... odd.
@Jaz007 In fact, Senran Kagura 7even is a PS4 exclusive, so that game is in a tough spot right now. Same with Catherine (PS exclusive), depending on what degree of censorship was involved with that title.
i think the biggest prb is that alot of the anime games they are going after rely on fan service as a selling point rather then a good story or fun gameplay while i don't agree with censorship i can live without seeing another loli with boobs bigger then she is
Sony is right to not allow underage characters in sexualized situations, that’s common sense. I will not agree if they go after adult models like what happens in Yakuza, Catherine, etc.
I just think this all stems from the image that PlayStation is trying to portray these days. If you look at some of the activities they’re involved in, they’re trying to get girls into coding and they sponsor events like Pride, etc.
For a company that’s being so vocal about these good causes, I’m just not sure they can also have games on their platform where you slap 13 year olds on the bottom and watch them cry over it.
Like, you’ve got to be consistent and turning a blind eye to these kind of games runs against the image they’re trying to create.
@Jriibz
You can kill everything else including animals though. It's still not cool. There's also a torture scene in GTA V that is not optional, but carry on and continue saying that's less of an issue than some women in suggestive clothing.
@get2sammyb
Except your argument completely avoids that women and gay people like games such as these too. I'm not saying you're wrong but this isn't a one side or the other argument, there's plenty of gray area. In the end, I wish Sony would instead flat out ban games it doesn't like rather than censor them and the dev can try to take it somewhere else. I know others disagree with that stance as well but I think nothing is better than getting something that been butchered and I'd say the same if it starts happening to franchises I like such as Yakzua, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter... I'd rather nothing than censoring or changing stuff because some people are uncomfortable.
@Gamer83 But then devs would present Playstation with a game already censored, possibly more so than Sony needs, to avoid that. They might censor it everywhere then. It just makes it more complicated for the devs. And the games aren’t exactly butchered.
@PS_Nation
Then they should disallow or censor other mediums on their platform that do sexualize underage characters like in movies, TV, and anime, no?
They're doing this to construct and maintain an image, and because they're being very opaque about this whole situation it'll only backfire in the form of whatever it is they're trying to promote to fail.
All the while, Sony looks like a bunch of hypocrites.
@Jriibz
What games do you play where you touch children inappropriately?
You don't do that in any game. The characters on screen are fiction, it's not real, it makes no sense to censor a game when there are movies, TV, anime, on the PSN store that depict the exact same things and some even more graphic.
@Jriibz
You're acting like this policy is just limited to that kind of obviously ridiculous content. It's not.
@Jriibz
OK.
Let me explain so you understand.
Sony owns PSN.
Movies, anime, TV shows, and games are on PSN.
Those characters are not REAL CHILDREN.
They're not real!
Learn to read.
Dead or Alive Extreme 3 Scarlet.
How thoughtful of Sony to think of the Children... It is a pity that they don't do anything to discourage consumerist behavior with those damn microtransanctions, teen-oriented aggressive marketing campaigns, historical distortion, and so on and so on. Creators should have the freedom to craft their artistic visions, and that's the reason why there are ratings printed on every box or digital brochure. You get more exposure to sex and violence on the news at noon.
@Jriibz
Yeah I know how PSN works? It's obvious you don't! Every bit of content goes through a certification process on PSN that's part of what makes it a curated platform. It's part of why Sony are bloody hypocritics.
You don't even know what you're talking about. Senran Kagura doesn't promote pedophilia it has a stupid minigame where move a cursor around a character model and adult actresses say things in Japanese. Quit pearl clutching and spreading lies!
Few examples of content similar to Senran Kagura from other mediums include:
Highschool DxD, Demon King Daimyo, Kill La Kill for anime.
Dazed and Confused, Fast Times at Ridgemont High for movies.
TV is a little trickier, but they are shows that put underage teens in sexual situations like Gossip Girl and the like.
All of those things I mentioned, especially the anime are similar to the content in Senran Kagura. Although in Dazed and Confused Mathew Mcconaughey literally literally plays a pedophile and he's portrayed as a damn hero in the movie.
So where is your argument? Why do you single out games when they have so much content that depicts similar subject matter and have been for years?
@Jriibz
You're right about Cyberpunk, we can both agree on that. Sony won't censor any games from Rockstar or CD Projekt Red, especially because if it did happen you know Phil Spencer would be screaming from the mountain tops how they have uncensored versions of those games on Xbox. I disagree with you about Catherine, I think it will be heavily censored along with the NieR Automata re-release. Hope I'm wrong, 99.9% sure I won't be.
Jack Thompson status Sony.
@Jriibz
Yes we will.
@Constable_What The game is presenting children. That’s be like saying One Piece has violence against one woman when Luffy gets beat because the voice actor is a woman. The character model is a child. There’s no lies that the game has sexualization of children. That can still happen without a child being filmed. According to you a book can’t sexualize anything. There’s a difference between it and filming real children yes, but no one here is trying to dispute that.
@Constable_What What movie or tv series that show touching an underage girl in a fun way? Are you frickin serious?
@MadAussieBloke No one cares about your kids fam. 👌
Some people here really want to slap and touch underage girls.
Just want to say to my friends of FBI reading the comments here that I’m clean, lol.
But there's already official rating censor (esrb/pegi), why sony censoring it again? They just like nintendo in 90's.
Maybe next time sony will censor mortal kombat blood to sweat? Lol
I think sony needs to clear up what they'll censor, if they don't want that level of depiction of underage girl in senran kagura games, just say it since I'm sure people will understand. What I didn't want is sony censoring more adult games like Catherines since I remember there's no depiction of underage children in there.
@Gamer83 Doesn’t matter though does it? I don’t see how a company that wants to portray itself as being progressive can turn a blind eye to games where you slap the tits of sobbing teenagers.
@get2sammyb
It doesn't help the company, I'm not arguing that. But again, that's why I worry about some of the games I like. Where draw the line? You know somebody is going to be offended by what Trish wears in DMC V. You know somebody is going to be pissed about some mini game in Yakuza (the modeling ones from Yakuza Kiwami 2 for example). Don't even get me started on some of the stuff in games Rockstar makes, particularly GTA (even if it's optional it's there). So if you're a 'progressive' company, why allow any of this stuff? The whole situation is ridiculous. I've never been interested in games like SK nor do I care for some of the content I hear about. I also don't think it pushes people away from PlayStation much the same way the despicable behavior of far, far too many male professional athletes doesn't push girls away from watching male professional sporting events and rooting for teams that have idiots on the roster who have done stuff like beat the sh*t out of their girlfriends/wives.
@Gamer83 For me personally there’s a clear difference between some of these “gropey” games and, for example, the Trish character in DMC.
But it’s like the Sony guy says: it’s a difficult problem.
@Jaz007
According to me a book can't sexualize anything? That isn't what I'm saying at all.
What I'm saying is that Sony is being hypocritical when it comes to the content that it allows on their service. You're right. A book can sexualize fictional characters, as can movies, TV, and anime.
What I'm disputing is their hypocrisy.
What I'm wary of is a slippery slope.
So why does Sony focus on games? Because they have a facade they want present? Probably. It's a slippery slope, but they want to present themselves as "progressive". So they, you know, use conservative tactics to ensure that. Censorship and all.
@Jriibz
You can apply the logic in your assertion that touching fictionalized underage characters to "get off" screams pedophilia to killing fictionalized people for fun screams psychopath.
I mean they both aren't real. I didn't downplay the slider or whatever I just didn't mention it. Because it isn't really relevant to my arguement. It is more eggregious, but as everyone already knows it isn't real.
So why does it matter?
It matters to Sony, but don't get it twisted. They didn't care 10 years ago when it was "affecting" (debatable) kids. They only care now because they want to present themselves as virtuous.
Also Sony movies doesn't have anything to do with the PSN storefront. That's all run by SCEI. Don't believe me? Google it. I did before I chose to reply. I don't respond with incorrect information.
@PS_Nation
I have answered that already. In response to @Jriibz.
There are plenty of TV and movies that place fictional underage characters in sexual situations. Most of them are on PSN.
Are they as eggregious?
No.
But do they sexualize minors?
Yes.
@get2sammyb
It is, and it shouldn't be. I can totally understand how people would not like some of the seedier content in games like SK. I can't understand how something like Trish's outfit in DMC V or Cammy's Street Fighter outfit makes people uncomfortable but it does. Although hell it doesn't even end there, I've seen Yakuza, a series clearly aimed at male gamers, get criticized for not presenting masculinity in a poor light. It's freaking ridiculous. If people don't like something, then fine, don't play it don't buy it, that's always been my stance. That doesn't mean I don't think some things cross a line, obviously some do, but that's why the ratings board exists.
@get2sammyb yup, it is a difficult problem. But I definitely get what @Gamer83 is getting at. I remember there was a problem with Street Fighter V with Cammy’s intro and the R. Mika butt slap that Capcom had to change. Although, I don’t think that was Sony’s call. Just a lot of people complained about it that I’m sure don’t even play that game.
@shonenjump86
I remember that incident. Obviously don't know the behind the scene dealing but it was a business decision to remove it. I didn't agree because like you I think it's a vocal minority and mostly people who wouldn't play the game anyway but the cries against it were obviously loud enough to force a change.
@Jaz007
Read my words carefully and don't place your own pre-suppositions onto them. Just read them for what they are. You're trying to latch on to a contradiction that is not there, and it is leading to you becoming obviously confused.
These games, as well as other other games, and TV, movies, anime, and books sexualize fictional underage characters.
They are not real. They're fiction.
They're not anymore real than an imaginary scenario inside someone's head.
That's what I've been saying. It's plain to see in all of my responses. They're a bit long, because I want to explain fully and unequivocally my opinion.
Now with that in mind. If you've got any more questions for things make sure I've not addressed them already. Thank you.
@wiiware Sony will be fine...
Realistically Sony will be fine since they love the Western games even if sacrifices must be made it’s a
The ends justify the means...
@Constable_What I skimmed and quickly deleted my reply upon rereading.
@Jriibz Is it? I'd say throwing the word pedophile at people is immature.
This whole situation just makes me sad. I understand not liking something, but outright wishing for it to disappear just because you don’t like it is not a mindset anyone should be in. The fan service games do not promote pedophilia and they do not harm anyone as the ESRB would have never greenlighted them if they did and the devs would have been jailed. Hell what makes me even sadder is that you can tell a good chunk of the people in comments have never even actually played Senran Kagura, but here they are acting like their experts on everything in them.
@MadAussieBloke There games man, pretty sure your family has nothing to fear from them. Unless your family is comprised of 2D people that is.
@get2sammyb “slap the tits of sobbing teenagers”
^What game is this supposed to be? Senran? I can’t remember any part of the game where their bawling their eyes out about anything (other than when they are talking to their dead loved ones).
Who wrote this piece of garbage? It's biased as all hell and a disgrace to actual journalism, whoever wrote this is a pathetic excuse for a journalist. Actual journalists have this thing called INTEGRITY something that wasn't shown at all in the writing of this article. Hey jack responsible for this hot mess got some advice for you, as a journalist your job isn't to preach some nonsense agenda. It's to objectively report on issues regarding gaming
A difficult problem? Only if he's five! The solution is simple, you leave the parenting of children to their parents! It's not Sony's responsibility to raise the children of others, nor is it the job of gamers to take responsibility for what kids are exposed to.
The ps4 has parental controls after all if parents fail to use them it's on them!
Whoa there bud! Tell us how you really feel
@Crimson7 dang boy, you shouldn’t let your emotions get to you... Everyone EVERYONE is biased in some way or another...
Nintendo switch didn't censor the underage sexual content in this game tho. Maybe because most of Switch users are underage kids?
The game is very creepy nevertheless.
@Jriibz He called everyone who enjoys these games a pedophile, fam.
@TheTruthThis Or Nintendo finally realized that you make more money by appealing to consumers rather than trying to play parent.
Sorry, too busy with my Xbox One but this stupid policy is still in place so not interested in excuses for stupidity.
These games do seem creepy, but I don't agree with Sony's censorship. Players can decide for themselves what they want to play.
And as for those crying out paedophiles, isn't that the same as calling GTA players murderers? As long as the game is legal and gets an appropriate age rating, then I think Sony should stay out of this.
@Jriibz
Many like Gamer83 make an amalgam as if most mature or nude scenes would be sensored. That's not what's happening. Instead it should be individually looked into since it could be debatable in some instances.
Thats nothing to do with mature themes like some would pretend. Now if they start sencoring mature content I'd see the outrage justified. What they sensor is more like prevert content and the debate should be on cases where it might not actually be pervert.(what could be seen as pervert in our society)
SIGH It has nothing to do with protecting children and it's NOT just a crackdown on minors! The whole "this is pedos vs everyone else" nonsense needs to stop. They say they just censor minors, then they censor Dead or Alive Xtreme 3's new DLC release. They say it's the interaction that's the issue and they censor several visual novels (i.e. NO interaction at all) with CGs depicting characters who are of age. This complete lack of consistency and failure to clarify any specific policy in clearly written form should be unacceptable to any self-respecting consumer.
Personally, I fall in the camp of if there's no victim there's no crime to begin with. BUT, regardless, it is indeed Sony's prerogative to choose to be arseholes to fans of fanservice games (sorry, FEMALE fanservice games, since nothing else gets touched). What's NOT ok, and which every gaming news site should be talking about, is them being entirely hypocritical and inconsistent in their targets and failing to provide any clear policy guidelines.
Problem is the legal age for sex in Japan is 13 apparently, probably lower than most countries.
The issue here is that everyone agrees there should be a line but we can't agree where it is.
I can see Sony's point and to be honest, they are ahead of the curve on what will probably become a bigger topic in the industry. Things that were permissable even 5 years ago probably aren't now to a lot of people. They are just playing the numbers game - the number of people, particularly in the West, who will be properly annoyed is sizable but probably not as sizable as the customers, potential or otherwise, that will get turned off by publicity stating this.
At the end of the day, from a general western perspective, it is not permissable for there to be any sexually suggestive depiction of underage children (which I see as a good thing). It feels weird to be having that argument.
@ShogunRok
@Rudy_Manchego thing is though they are not underage children, they are video game characters. You can argue that they have set ages, but the thing is they do not look remotely realistic, nor do they sound it. These characters ages are literally background flavor to set the stage and nothing more.
@crimsontadpoles Molesting kids is not done the same goes for rape. Murder still has its limits Manhunt anyone. There has to be some reasoning behind the brutal stuff.
But nobody talked when people got mental over lesbian Kiss with Ellie... 😑
@Crimson7 But the problem is parents will go talk if your right or not. And still we are talking about characters that look like kids.
@get2sammyb I think you have a point there. Andits still weird to have DOA Xtreme 3 and have no Tina in it. But we do have 2 girls that look like 16 year olds.
@shonenjump86 Yeah, October was the initial release date I believe but since then the game's been delayed probably 2-3 times already.
@Jriibz their ages are quite literally just the back drop for the setting as they are Shinobi students training to become full fledged Shinobi, but even then what’s focused on is the fact that they are Shinobi-in-training not their ages. And who exactly are you claiming is designed to look like a child? Mirai? She’s about the only one, maybe other than Ryōbi, that that doesn’t look like a 20 year old.
@Jriibz
So, again, why does it matter? Or do you not even know?
If you don't know what my argument is, then you need to work on reading comprehension. I've literally spelled it out multiple times.
@Jriibz
"so you've decided he meant you. Guess he's not wrong"
See. This is why I call you out. I see you do this all the damn time. You get defensive so you just fall back on veiled accusations of calling people pedophiles.
Playing Senran Kagura doesn't make you a pedophile. Just like playing GTA doesn't make you a murderer.
Or being a gamer in general doesn't make you a school shooter.
Gotta love when people throw the word "hypocrite" around.
@Jriibz
There is a reason I chose murderer along with the word pedophile.
What makes you think people that play these games are sexually attracted to children?
And the next line you'll say is:
"Because you'd have to be, to want to play these games! The gameplay loop revolves around you touching children inappropriately."
Well, putting aside for a moment that that isn't the core game play loop of Senran Kagura, you murder fictional people in GTA, and that is a core gameplay loop. Why would anyone want to play that?
Is it because it's a fantasy setting where you can have fun in a completely fictional environment?
Nope. Must be because I enjoy murder.
There is very little difference when talking about fictional characters.
As I've said, and as you want to ignore to label people pedophiles, in the most cowardly way possible, I might add, they, the characters, are not real.
You don't get to decide what he decides. I don't know what makes you think you're such a master of manipulation, but you're not. You're transparent, and do this a lot to people. It's not OK.
@crimsontadpoles
Thing is maybe its borderline illegal?
They talk about new regulation. We may know more about those later on.
@Tony56723 I can see you point and sure, everything in games is fictional but, you have to ask, why do they look and act like that?
If the vagueness of it isn't part of the gameplay loop then why is anyone complaining about censorship? Surely it doesn't matter.
@Jriibz
You lack self awareness, and it shows.
"What do you mean it's not okay? If Sony doesn't want pedo games on their system then you can play it on PC. Is your best and only argument that it's fictional? "
Not talking about Sony there. I was talking about you. My arguement is that is only fictional because that's all I need to form an argument against your goal post moving arguements and constant misunderstanding and misrepresenting of my core arguement.
"Then why are gamers getting mad at women and LGBT characters in games like Battlefield, it's fictional. Why do you care if a character lives or dies it's just fictional."
Talking about Battlefield V now? First, there is no LGBT characters in Battlefield War Stories. You can potentially be if you want to in multiplayer, but that's up to the player and not the devs. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about there. Do some research.
Second, I don't care what happens to fictional characters at all. That's the point of my argument that is clearly going over your head. I'll refrain from being ironic you do not understand that it seems.
"Last I checked people don't play GTA to fulfill their murder fantasies and games like manhunt were controversial even amongst gamers. Most people who are complaining about losing these games play them to mostly suppress their desires and not molest a real child. Also what makes you think they aren't, where is your proof(you saying what the watching gay pron means and you are not gay?)"
This is a dumb argument.
First, the gay pron arguement. That's the most eggregious so I'll address it first.
Bisexual people watch gay pron.
Women watch gay pron.
Watching gay pron doesn't make a person gay. What a dumb thing to say, "gay pron means you're not gay...". What?
Second, where is your proof that people who play GTA don't have murder fantasies?
You're showing your bias here. There is no proof that GTA means you're a murderer, just as there is no proof that playing Senran Kagura makes you a pedophile.
Does GTA punish you? By what sending more police for you to kill until they kill you and you respawn with a few hundred bucks missing?
That game punishes you more for surrendering to authorities, getting busted, then getting wasted by the police.
Again... Where is your proof that people play Senran to suppress their desires to molest children? You ask me for proof that murderers play GTA, (Proof I obviously don't have, and don't care to find) and then ask for proof yourself.
Do you have it?
If you haven't picked up on it yet. I am not arguing against GTA. I'm attacking your flawed logic and lack of self awareness.
"Maybe not senran but why would someone get pissed that you can no longer fiddle the children? You don't understand the meaning of those two words. To be a murderer you have to have killed a human. And last I checked GTA punishes you for killing innocents so it is clearly against that, but these games give you points for touching children. I suggest you watch this video to see how your argument is flawed."
Again. They are fictional characters. People aren't upset soley based on that.
That's an example of a reductive arguement.
People are upset because of the censorship itself. Do you condone censorship? You obviously do, and that tells me all I need to know about you.
What two words? You mention two words, but then don't mention the words themselves. Murderer and pedophile?
Did you even mean words? What are you on about?
If how you structure your thoughts and arguements is anything to go on I'm not watching that video.
@JoeBlogs
I only used GTA to point out the flaw in assuming that the personality of the person who is playing a game is apparent by the game they are playing.
I know everything you've said in your post already. Read the whole debate because we are going to start going around in circles from here.
I picked GTA because it's a game that came under tremendous scrutiny during the early 2000s. Powers that be wanted to censor that too, and it sets a terrible precedent.
That's only a part of my argument, though. Read my other posts and you'll find the rest.
@Rudy_Manchego alright I’m a bit confused, what do you mean by “why do they look and act like that?” Look and act like what exactly?
@Tony56723 By implication I mean to appear/act to be of school girl age, even if not explicitly stated as so. Sorry for my poor writing!
@Jriibz and why can’t they specify their ages? It’s fictional people in a fictional setting, i think it’s fair game to set the stage the way you want.
As far as otakus go I think you’re generalizing quite a bit. Yes I’m sure that there are otakus out there that are pedophiles, just like there are pedophiles sitting in all aspects of society (hello Jared and Kevin Spacey). I don’t its right to throw an entire group, otakus in this case, under the bus along with the bad eggs who have slipped in. Even amongst the hardcore lolicon community pedophiles are shamed and ridiculed as their is a clear difference between reality and fiction.
Yes I’ve heard of them getting arrested, but what were they arrested for? Having actual child pornography (something that actually harms children) not Senran Kagura and Highschool DxD.
@Rudy_Manchego no worries man, it’s all good. I just don’t think there is necessarily anything wrong with portraying characters as school girls, I think it’s just another cliche back drop that is used to ground a setting. Keep in mind I’ve been watching anime for quite some time and my brain has anime characters and real life people in two separate categories.
@Bad-MuthaAdebisi Only technically. Each prefecture is allowed to set their own age of consent, and the vast majority set it to 18.
Sony's somewhat been like this since the PS2 era. There was a game called BMX XXX, that Sony took out the nudity and the videos of real strippers, where Microsoft and even a hard-hitter nintendo kept it all in.
As far as this goes, I'm glad. There's no need for the amount of nudity and everything else in the games, especially when many kids get their hands on it, but in all honesty, they watch it on movies, tv and listen to it in music, so really, there's no big difference, just push the ratings boards more if anything, but even that won't stop it. I'm a 39 year old parent, so I wouldn't show my kids anything like that, but...like any of us parents...we can't stop them from seeing it at a friends house or someone else's house...and that was like that even when we were kids! I remember...never swear or cuss around the parents, but at school and around friends...it was a different story!!!! As with all youth...back in my days and I'm pretty sure it's like this now...you're not cool unless!!!!
I was thinking that the ratings could be more like the movies...G, PG, PG13, R and Adults Only. Make the game ratings like this instead, more parents that aren't game players, would understand them more, instead of the E, T and M ratings. Or, put a PARENTAL GUIDANCE sticker on them. Period.
@JoeBlogs
I don't find any issue with that. What I find issue with is when people automatically assume what you're personality or tastes are based upon what games you play.
Sex and violence should be treated differently. I agree. That's not my core arguement though.
I'm not arguing this:
"...murder being the worst crime imaginable - then we have no right to find anything else distasteful or wrong."
I'm arguing this:
It doesn't matter what happens in regard to fictional characters, and assuming people's tastes, sexual preference, personality is ignorant. As long as it doesn't break the law I find no issue with it, or at least not enough of an issue to censor it.
As I've said I brought up GTA to point out a flaw in another user's arguement. You're right. Whether or not you murder people in GTA is irrelevant, but that's not my argument, as I've said.
But you bring up laws, and as far as the US and Japan is concerned these games are not breaking any laws.
Ill just leave this here if it can help:
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/argument_victory.png
@Jriibz
No matter what I say to you it's obvious you are incapable of understanding what my stance is.
Also @JoeBlogs came in to this argument towards the end of it to give his opinion. I'm not arguing with his point. He doesn't really know what you and I are arguing about.
Where have I mentioned genocide and the like?
I did point out to you how your gay pron arguement is dumb, and I had posted reasons for it. If you can't see that I can't help you. Don't reckon anyone can at that point.
Still think it's the ratings board's job.
And lol the children. Maybe stop so many from getting their hands on 18+ violent games like CoD first? Can't see many kids even wanting stuff like Senran Kagura in comparison and what 'highly sexual content' is in that game anyway? It's not porn : S
@Jriibz so your arguement is that Senran Kagura glorifies child pornography? You’ve obviously never played the games then if that’s what you think they are about.
And I’m here arguing reality and fiction because there is a clear difference between a person in real life and an anime character.
Welp, as long as Sony sticks to minor looking anime girls and boob softening gels, there's no problem for me personally, to be honest. It's the "let's wait and watch what happens"-game all over again. Until then, I'll use the waterslide, wheeeeeeee... @JJ2
The funny thing about the "pedophilia glorification" argument is that ratings boards never had an issue with these games. I would think if that were the case, they would have cracked down and not Sony, right?
@Jriibz is child molestation legal in the United States? Can I buy child pornography or watch it without being arrested? The answer is no.
Did the ESRB rate this game? Yes, it is rated M for mature. Can I buy the games at GameStop? Yes, I bought Peach Beach Splash and Estival in person at a store. Does Walmart.com sell the manga of Senran Kagura? Yes, I’m fact I bought the first volume from their site.
What am I getting at? Child molestation is illegal in the United States. If something promotes it, encourages it, or displays child pornography it is banned and the creators are imprisoned. The fact that I can go to a store in the US (or through their online shops) and buy these kinds of games is all the evidence I need to know whether or not these products are promoting something as obscene as child molestation. Not to mention I’ve played the games myself, it’s your standard ecchi game romp. It does not promote going out and molestiing children.
@JoeBlogs
No need to apologise. Those are good points you made.
Your thoughts are always appreciated as far as I'm concerned.
Wow 20 likes but it seems my warnings weren't heeded. Honestly some just look for arguments.
@hapuc Don't get into an argument with him cos that what he wants mate. Any opportunity he has to say how "bad Sony is" and how he's "playing on his Xbox" he'll take with both hands, he's just trying to get a rise out of other commenters now.
@Tony56723 Yeah and it is why I think drawing the line is difficult. From a western perspective with limited knowledge of say Japanese anime culture, these games are just another mainstream controversy waiting to happen. If you are aware of the culture (whether you agree with it or not) then the situation isn't the same.
In the same way that Western culture is pretty much okish with violence in media forms.
I appreciate most of you are having respectable debates about this but can we stop calling people names? I know it's nearly Christmas and all of you kids are excited for Santa but let's be nice to each other.
Low-budget niche lewd anime game: Bad
Mainstream realistic AAA game with straight-up nudity: Good
Californians, everyone.
@Jriibz since when has Senran Kagura been illegal in the UK? Estival, Peach, and Reflextions (the most recent 3)all have a PEGI rating of 16 and are still for sale just like the US. I’m not really sure where you pulling that information from. And yeah it is protected by the first amendment, it’s not child pornography.
You keep bringing up how you believe Senran Kagura glorifies molesting children, but your not giving me any examples of HOW you see it glorifying it. The groping mini game? Listen I can see why it’d be weird to people who don’t play it, but it’s literally a mini game where you slap an incredibly busty anime girls butt or boobs. Is it a weird mode? Sure, but it’s just some dumb fun. It does not support going out into the REAL world and grabbing someone’s kid. Hell the Senran cast don’t even look their age, just look at Asuka, Yumi, Homura, or Miyabi and you’d see what I mean.
@Jriibz @Tony56723 For what it's worth (regardless of the right or wrong here), as I understand (could be wrong), I believe child erotica and pornography are considered to be two different things legally, even one is just a more severe form of the other. I found this wondering how Victoria secret junior was allowed to just put sexy pics of young teens wearing lingerie on their shop doors. So that adds a grey area legally, and I'd also add a question. Is the law really always going to be right here? Regardless of where you live.
@Rudy_Manchego it’s just a very frustrating situation for fans of stuff like this sadly.
@Jriibz “These things are illegal in UK but are a grey area in USA cause if the First Amendment.”
^I did read it, you said they were illegal. Not sure what part I misread exactly.
And so what you’re saying is that Senran hasn’t been banned because it follows the law? I’m honestly getting the feeling that if I told you their ages where 18+ (which most of the cast looks like) you’d still have an axe to grind.
Ok so explain to me how slapping the butt of an anime girl is glorifying molesting children becuase I’m honestly not seeing how one immediately leads to the other.
I'm asking myself how Sony will take care of the first anime fanservice games for girls or homosexual men with teenage looking boys, wearing skin tight speedos and stuff. Maybe also with bouncing d*cks. Just thinking. If they'll also get as strickt as censoring some touchy Senran Kagura mode? :-/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhYtc4P_a-Y&has_verified=1
@AdamNovice actually what I want is Sony to reberse this policy. Couldn't care less about arguments with Sony fanboys.
@ShogunRok love how the worst I get is calling other people fanboys but pedophile and idiot get thrown around like crazy.
@Jriibz how am I trying to straw man you? You said something, I read it, I then responded to it. What more do you want from me?
So I slapped the butt of a fictional anime 15 year old....why wouldn’t I be able to say that with a straight face? It’s a game, it’s not real and I know not it’s real so what do I care? Let me put it this way, it bothers me about as much as gunning down a crowd of people in Hitman bothers me. It’s fiction, it’s not real. You also seem to be under the impression that people play these games for the ages of the characters which really isn’t true. People play Senran becuase it’s a cute anime girl ninja beat ‘em up game where each character has there own appearance, personality and fighting style/weapon. The age as I’ve said isn’t what people are focusing on, like I’ve also said it’s just flavor text.
“It portrays how fun it is and provides points without showing any repercussions.”
Portrays how fun what is? Grabbing an anime girls butt? So what you’re saying is that by grabbing an anime girls butt in a game someone will be inspired to molest real life actual children?
We will see what the excuse is when/if they censor Catherine. At the end of the day, of course I don't support games that have you fondle under age girls nor do I want to play them but it's also down to the parents to make sure their children are not allowed to play these games. Ratings are there for a reason and parents should be taking note of them. I don't know of any parent that lets their 12 year old watch an 18 rated movie.even one as comical as deadpool but the amount of parent's that dont bat an eye lid to buy call of duty and GTA is beyond belief.
did you hear even Tumbler is starting to block adult content, bloody Tumbler and normally they will let anything pass on there so it's not just Sony that are doing it, i think there has been some change to the regulations that we are not privy to and Sony just got ahead of the game
@Jriibz who’s are you referring to when you mention people who are angry? The fans? Non fans? Just looking for clarification.
Violence, like sexual themes, have been on blast on for years and they are related as I’ve seen the same arguments get used in regards to both. Sure Hitman punishes you when you get caught doing something and sure Senran doesn’t really punish you for doing stuff in the dressing room, but your not really rewarded for it either. It just kind of exists for you to screw around with if you want to. On that note what mind set by the way are referring too? That you can do what you want to someone without repercussion?
Please don’t ever assume such terrible things about an individual. Calling someone a child predator is not something you should be laying down so causally, especially when you don’t know who that person is or what they are like. For all you know they could have been a victim of very thing you are accusing them of.
One thing I'll point out is that this isn't censorship, it's a publisher that says that they want/don't want certain content on their system. This happens quite a bit in entertainment. If the developer doesn't like what the publisher is telling them to do, they can go elsewhere, and terminate their relationship with the publisher.
Censorship is done by governments, and there isn't a different option (unless of course you move).
For example, as a host of a podcast, I get offered ads or cross promote other content created by other podcasters that I've turned down because I don't agree with their content. I'm not censoring them, they can create any content they want, I just won't have it on my podcast.
I want to be brutally honest with all "I will use my Switch"-rebels: I'd prefer a decent censored version of a game than playing a multiplatform-port on Switch running at 10 frames per second with blurry textures. I own Nights of Azure 2, Gal Gun 2 and Atelier Lydie and Suelle on Switch and PS4. There are differences like day and night. Switch can't even handle some last gen engines properly; hell, even the Vita runs Nights of Azure 2 smoothly! So: What's the point in having uncensored boobs if they are a) blurry as fudge or b) bouncing with glorious slideshow-fps? Shots fired. Truth hurts, huh?
@Jriibz listen well and listen good because I'm only going to say this once to avoid a massive headache with what presumably is a prude.
The target audience for senran kagura and all of these other games of similar ilk are teens and (usually nostalgic) Japanese adults. And in my case, teens who sort of grew up with the series, as I've gotten into the series when I was around 16 if I recall correctly.
I fall to the camp of if it ain't for the perpose of harmless fun then why bother. They wanna add a butt slapping mini-game on the side? Go right ahead. They wanna make a kemonomimi pin ball game where you "flip bumpers"? Sure go ahead! Whanna argue over who's best girl? Why not! It's all goofy, casual fun! None of this takes itself too seriously!
But you don't see it that way. You wear your morality on your shoulder while holding a ruler even when people are trying to tell you it's harmless fun, evident when you say that's "saying it's harmless is like something a drug problem person would say." When the person abusing the drug is getting harmed compared to what is essentially light-hearted soft eroticism of fictional highschool students. Not elementary or middle school. highschool. The age when most of us were looking into p***, hentai and what not.
Like, c'mon man. That's a ridiculous comparison. Especially when you bring up nazism and racism to compare it to. Like, wtf? Use your inner teenager a bit! Remember back to that time a little.
People don't like this because it's not fun.
People don't like this because it removes an aspect of fun.
People don't like this because it has the potential to remove the entirety of what so fun about these games.
That's the problem.
And saying " If you want this things so bad, it's on PC" is exactly what people are going to do. So with that said, what exactly are you winning from this? We are the one losing here. We get less silly fun options for a game that you were never interested in picking up. Don't you think that's the dumbest reason to ever give a s*** about anything?! Pouring all of this energy and not going to get anything out of it?
"Many of which depicting underage children in compromising positions. In some games you’re able to touch and fondle the minors against their will; others merely place them in highly sexualised situations. "
This statement seems a tad bit on the fake news side as the vast majority of the content that is being censored is hitting stuff like adult characters in bikinis showing off too much skin and stuff like breast jiggle physics. The only game I can think of that comes close to this statement is Senran Kagura and it's intimacy mode which is hardly an example of "touching and fondling minors against their will". An sure the game states they're 16 but that could be rectified by changing the 16 to 18 instead of straight up censoring it all.
@Lando_
Do you seriously think low budget niche games are going to run that bad on the switch to a point where they're a blurry mess. It doesn't take amazing hardware to run these games.
@Jriibz "And I'm not going to use my inner teenager cause I haven't even become one but as a pre-teen"
Oooh boy. Oh god. I know I said I wouldn't respond... But that explains a lot.
Makes things awkward on my end because I and many others have been being lectured by someone who hasn't fully developed his own boundaries let alone in general. And double awkward too because of the feeling of putting down a literal child, which isn't a good feeling. But alas...
"Yeah but you are downplaying light hearted EROTICISM."
And the previous comment explains this too. When you're older, you're gonna be watching out of that as your newly developed hormones run hog wild as you go internet diving for the hottest girls . And the thing is, that's not only normal. That's literally how the human body works and how someone develops their sexual preferences for certain types of people.
That's MUCH different than smoking foreign substances such as weed, which basically destroy your body. Not grow it.
"if Sony doesn't want exploitation of underage girls in their console then okay then."
Let me tell a quick story. I was the same way with Nintendo during the Wii U era. No matter how bad things got, I just pretended everything was Ok and accepted what came and even defended them. Whether it was censoring key sexual parts of their games to the point where the story made no sense to them copystriking videos on youtube because "it used their IP" despite fair use. "Because that's the law" I said. Did that get them anywhere? Nope. Being more lenient and listening to what developers wanted did, which meant better quality games. And I was the sucker in the end for defending them.
Now I am making a story too. I want that story to be as fun as it can possibly be, morals be damned because I know what i'm doing and want others to have fun with it as well. And if someone doesn't enjoy that they are perfectly fine to ignore it. But if someone came up to me and told me that they were going to do everything in their power to make my story more in their vision than mine to the point where it was only barely functional and not as fun as it should be, I would throw a verbal fit and tell them what the hell is wrong with them. Because I know it's sacrificing the quality of enjoyment people could be having.
That's the same case here. And this is what the SK developer is currently feeling with Sony America taking over. People should be allowed to choose for themselves whether they like it or not. Not have that choice made for them. Especially when the people who buy these games are adults themselves making their own decisions.
"Over FICTIONAL minors! Like honestly there are worse things"
You're getting involved in this too. And because there are worse things is precisely why people like coming to these games. They want to get away from that and come to a better place. Games like these, They're happy. They're goofy. They're optimistic and charming and stress free and just want to make you smile. They're practically sexy action comedies for an older demographic. Which only makes it stressful when they get censored.
"You guys rage at Fallout 76/Fortnite"
I don't like those games, or most modern non-indie western games these days so I dunno why you're lumping me into this.
@Jriibz it’s light hearted titilation, relax.
You also keep railing on about their ages, but I’d argue that their ages don’t matter. Why? Because their ages are not the focus of the series or gameplay. If the creators bumped up the ages of all the characters by 2 it would change absolutely nothing as it’s not what fans are focused on. Their focused on how cute their favorite character is, they’re focused on how cool someone’s particular fighting style is, hell a lot of us just like the stories that the games tell and if you actually played Senran you’d know what I’m talking about.
No one is being exploited, no one is being hurt. The fans are also upset because something they enjoy is being censored out of the blue for seemingly no reason.
The intimacy mode isn’t what makes Senran fun and you’d know that if you actually played the games. It’s a harmless mini game that’s been in all previous releases that is there if you want to use it, but it’s never been a requirement to enjoy the full package. People are upset that something they like is being needlessly changed, which is understandable.
What does people calling out Fallout 76 for being shallow have anything to do with a completely unrelated game being censored? I don’t see the correlation. Also why do you keep bringing up slapping crying children? What kind of have games have YOU been playing because that isn’t what Senran Kagura is about at all.
Wait wait so you’re a pre-teen? Oh my god this whole string of comments makes so much more sense now.
@Jriibz and I want to make it clear I am not putting you down for being a pre-teen, I just remember what it’s like being that age and it certainly explains you’re viewpoint.
@ChronosChris As I wrote, I own Nights of Azure 2, Gal Gun 2 and Atelier Lydie and Suelle. All three (fanservicy) games on Switch and PS4. On Switch, they have blurry textures, low resolutions (seem like 480p) what makes the character models look extremely jaggy and especially Nights of Azure 2 becomes unplayble in handheld mode, reaching 10 fps and even less. Not amazing looking games, that's right, but it seems that the Switch can't handle their engine or the developers did a piss-poor job, porting them. I don't think, things will change. Switch is selling like hot sh*t. It's easy to make cash grabs.
@Jriibz First, I’m defending Senran Kagura becuase its a game series I like and I don’t appreciate people who have never played them trying to convince others it promotes harm towards children. I’m not even sure where you got the idea I was a “gamergater.” I’m simply just a fan of a game series, nothing more nothing less.
Second, child erotism has never been a selling point for the series and you would know that if you had actually played any of these games. 3D boobs and butts are why the series was created and is it’s biggest selling point, not anyone’s age. If the next game had a 5 year time skip the fans would be fine with it becuase, like i said, age is not what they are playing for.
Thirdly, Fallout 76 is a shallow Fallout 4 asset flip that Bethesda should be ashamed of selling for $60-$200. It should have never released in the broken, buggy state it did. But hey that’s a completely different subject.
@Jriibz I dont know if you're joking or serious but who in the world told you this game was about fiddling kids. Also high school students are not children, why does everyone keep saying this? I know people who play these games because they're cute, funny and pretty decent gameplay. No one is focused on age because they are not kids, they are 16 to 18. I also dont get how you can play games like doom, mk, cod battle royale where the only goal is to kill em all and be the last man standing, yet somehow you believe looking at fictional high school characters is more immoral to participate in.
@Jriibz @Arashi88 You too need to knock it off with the insults and accusations. If you guys can not agree to disagree I suggest you just ignore each other otherwise I can give you guys both a time out.
Thanks for understanding
@Tasuki ok fine, but I was simply talking about violence and sex in games of how ones accepted for any reason justified and the other is put to shame by some. Then we both started poking fun at each other and if you deem this unnecessary then I apologize but I'm not agreeing to what they said because I dont think its true. Once again my bad😁
@Tasuki I understand me and the other party poked at each other and the convo was going in circles but did u have to delete almost all the post, really? We didn't use profane language just called each trolls. Is that the cause of the deletion or just the discussion itself?
@Arashi88 You guys were not adding anything at all to the discussion just going back and forth trading insults and such. This is not a place to do that. If you want to add to the discussion in an appropriate way that's fine but it's not ok to argue and insult other users
This will be the last discussion on the matter.
Thanks for understanding
The purpose of censoring content is to make it so that it appeals to people who would have been uncomfortable with the content otherwise. For a game like Senran Kagura, someone who finds it creepy or dislikes these anime girls are not going to get it just because you tone it down a bit or take out a certain item. The people who actually do buy these games end up getting affected and it turns them away. Literally no one wins here. I would advise these developers to not drive away their customers to appeal to people who don't care about them in the slightest before they end up in a bad spot.
@Tasuki yea yea ok, fine
Murdering pixelated innocents? NO PROBLEM!
Squeeze a pixelated boob? U PEDO FILTH
See the hypocrisy?
It's rated 'M' for a reason. The game isn't for kids. Not our problem if parents are buying them for underagers. You shouldn't be censoring content that adults bought the game for, it defeats the purpose. May not be what you like, but that's okay because you aren't paying for it.
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