It’s all kicking off. Sony has shocked us by announcing that it’s not attending E3 2019 at all, and it’s resulted in a slew of speculation about the PlayStation 5 and what’s going on behind-the-scenes. Kotaku reports that, “based on conversations it’s had with developers across the industry”, the Japanese giant’s next-generation console is not set to release until 2020.
However, one Reddit rumourmonger, who was the first to break the E3 2019 story, reckons that PS5 development kits are already in the hands of studios, and it’s a “beast” apparently. This is supported by a separate Square Enix story, where an artist at Luminous Productions accidentally revealed that the team is working on a new IP for the next-gen console.
RuthenicCookie, who appears to be enjoying his five minutes of fame, claims that the console is codenamed PSV, and that there’ll be two PlayStation Experience-style events next year, one of which will take place in mid-2019 when it’ll officially unveil the system. According to the so-called “insider”, the new console's controller will include a camera for improved virtual reality tracking.
Of course, with Sony staying schtum, it’s impossible to verify any of this information – it could be legit, or it could be nonsense. We believe that developers definitely do have access to PS5 development kits, and we also reckon the console will launch in 2020 – but we’re uncertain of whether that will be earlier in the year, like March, or in the traditional pre-Christmas slot.
We suspect this story is going to run and run and run now. Stick with us, folks – we’re in for a bumpy ride.
[source kotaku.com]
Comments 68
So, doubling down on VR then? If so I'm out. PSV. The V is for vomit due to motion sickness.
@NoxAeturnus There's more to PlayStation then just VR you know.
I kinda expected more focus on VR, new headset, motion controls and camera, something to bring it up to the precision of HTC Vive.
As for the release date I've always had 2020 in my mind seems about right if you look at Sony's last few exclusives to hit the PS4.
Pretty cool if it's true about dev kits being in the wild, having prototype Navi silicon probably on TSMC's 7nm node, hammered home by the rumor Navi was built heavily for the PS5 in mind then it probably also means Sony gets first dibs on Navi in a multitude of ways.
@NoxAeturnus you should stop drinking alcohol and do drugs if you sick.you speaking nonsense playa.we talking about ps5 you talking about VR.wtf😱😂👍.word up son
When it rains, it pours. From leaks to official confirmations, on the PS4s birthday no less...it feels a little too convenient... . Whatever, All aboard the Hype Train!
@NoxAeturnus VR will just be baked in. Just like how the light bar on the DS4 is used for VR tracking. No-one is forcing a headset on you.
PSV
Why would they even want to give people the opportunity to recall the Vita? Or PSVR? I know the obvious explanation is PS5 in Roman Numerals but the Vita jokes just write themselves.
schtum
Well there's my new word for the day. "likely that it originated in the UK criminal community."
Well now we know where sammy has been spending his off hours.
I'm still early 2020, with an announcement before E3, though if they don't know yet, PS3 was delayed due to blu-ray drive issues, that's fine too.
I can't see them planning PS5 in 2019 and skipping E3 though, that doesn't really work for me. And PS5 can't wait until 2021, that's too long. So PSV in 2020 it is.
@AdamNovice Agreed. For now. However, if they bake VR into PS5 I expect there will be less for me to do overall unless it's totally optional. At which point it's just a gimmick, like the 3D of the 3DS.
@playstation1995 What? Of course I'm talking about VR. From the article: "According to the so-called “insider”, the new console's controller will include a camera for improved virtual reality tracking."
@Fight_Teza_Fight You don't bake in an expensive feature like VR, or a camera in your controller, unless you expect it to be used. It's a bit more tech than a light bar or a share button.
they will have a PlayStation meeting in 2019.shows the ps5.i believe the ps5 will be 12 teraflop.and release in 2020.word up son
@NoxAeturnus According to the Reddit user the PSVR breaker box will also be in the console. It'll just be an additional feature. Who knows? May be every unit will come with a headset and launch at £800.
I reckon it'll just be your traditional home console with VR capabilities- PS4PRO+++.
I do wonder whether Sony will push out a cheap streaming console similar to MS.
People remember how Microsoft tried to bundle the kinect with every console then removed it to lower the price and match the PS4 right?
My guess is the controller has a camera, like the light bar. Everything else needed for VR will be sold separately.
2020 seems like the right time for a new console, hopefully fully backwards compatible with PS4 games this time.
V has come to.
Followed by PSV on the screen before fading to black and seeing a remaster of MGSV in 8K resolution with an optional VR mode.
Snake will face the camera with a PSVR on his face and say
"Don't be a Phantom Pain, buy a PSV".
Everyone cheers
Hmm, a 14TF ps5 will be great since it's 10x the power of ps4.
Im ready,... Bought my PS4 at launch. It gives me 6 years - that is more than enough
@NoxAeturnus
Sony has dominated this generation with standard PS4 exclusives. The added PSVR offerings were gravy for those of us willing to invest (and a well played investment it was). Next gen will be more of the same.
PSV could be VR, but it almost sounds like too simple of a codename, or rather it could be the console actual name too easily. I’m not buying this rumor.
The leap from PS3 to PS4 was massive and for me mighty impressive. And if the rule of Moore's law continues, I'm salivating for PS5 and PSVR 2!!! Imagine Last of us 3 with double the power! Or COD, Fifa in PSVR 2! I can't imagine what double power would mean for next gen's games. Sweet!
i'm excited about what PSVR2 will bring, especially if the tracking will be much more improved than what we have now.
@bbq_boy 12 teraflops will make the games look like even more real.word up son
@wiiware PS4 Gpu is 1.84 teraflops so if you do 1.84 x 7.61 that puts you at 14 teraflops. How did you calculate 10x more powerful?
I really hope PS5 launches March 2020.
Guys, if they wanted March 2020 wouldn't E3 be a good idea to present your console or your games for the next console. That just doesn't make sense to me. I'm in holiday 2020 camp.
I worked with PS3 dev kits, they were a “beast” as well. At that point in development they don’t care about the size or form factor of the units—why would they?
Dev kits over a year before a console release doesn't make sense. Unless Sony are planning on an early 2020, instead of the Nov release window of 2020 (which is 2yrs away from now) doesn't make sense to have dev kits in the wild. Sony won't have specs locked down this early and would be foolish to do so as well as things can change in 6months let alone 18months-2years.
A Nov 2019 release is more for 2020 anyway as its so late in the year - mainly to catch the Christmas market. A late November release is to put the console out for the 2020 game releases where as a late 2020 release will have missed the majority of 2020 games. I still think that November 2019 release is most likely to catch the Christmas market and be in place for the 2020's gaming.
Every 'new' generation is considered a beast - after all its often a generational leap over the existing console. I would be surprised if its not more powerful than any current console but whether its 2x the X (the CPU I hope at least will be - if not more), 3x the Pro or more, time will tell. That would be around a 6x jump from Base consoles which would be similar to the jump up from PS3 to PS4 in terms of specs.
6 years is a long generation and the Pro would be exactly half way between the two releases too which makes sense. I know I am wanting the PS5 sooner, rather than later - if I had my way, it would have released this year - but I can't see Sony hanging on for another year. I am sure they can still sell consoles on the strength of their first party line-up but I would think they want to be at the forefront of 4k gaming and be the 'best' for multi-platform games too.
Remember, Sony announced the PS4 in Feb 2013 and that arrived in November later that year. They may have been at E3 but back then E3 had more weight but since then Sony chose to reveal the Pro at their own event in early September 2016. That was just an iterative update of course but they still chose to reveal it at their own event and not use E3 - I am sure they said they wanted to show their console to the right audience and not get lost in all the other news or overshadow any other announcements they had. It gives Sony the control and time to focus on the console and the information they want to share. They can spend 2hours on just the console rather than just 10mins because they have to show their games inc any they have marketing deals with - like CoD or Destiny - like they would at E3. Point is, it gives Sony the control as to when they want to announce (not fit in with E3 schedule and timings), how long they have and the audience they are revealing it to. They have total control over the whole thing this way.
@wiiware 1.4Tflops would be 10x the Xbox One S (numerically) but not the PS4 as that would require a 18.4Tflop GPU. These numbers are almost meaningless anyway because a 5Tflop GPU today is going to be more effective than a 5Tflop GPU from 5 or more years ago thanks to better efficiencies, lower latencies and optimisation. A 14Tflop GPU could be more than 10x as effective as a PS4 because its much more efficient. I would think that 10-12tflops though would be the target with a more balanced build - in other words not scrimping on the CPU to put more money into the GPU.
@rjejr
I reckon PSV is the code name Guerrilla Games wanted in honour of the football club they supposedly are fan of.
More reckon leaks coming up soon...
id suspect a sim release with cyberpunk as a day 1 sale.if so im off to remove a kidney..
@NecuVise
No. psx in Nov/devember to introduce PS5 would be good timing for March release. However I think it just may depend on components shortage and could be safer to release end of 2020
I’m still saying November 2019 release.
@BAMozzy if PS5 launched late this year it would make no sense as 7nm isn’t available, specs are locked 2 years from launch I have a link down below with Marc Cerny explaining everything, there is no November 2019 launch it doesn’t matter what you think or what lines up perfectly, Sony is in Command by a big margin this Gen their people crunch up the numbers and decide when they should launch, it’s beyond obvious that PS5 is launching either March 2020 or November 2020.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/meet-the-guy-who-engineered-the-playstation-4/amp/
Do people forget that PS2 sales continued into the PS4 era? If a PS5 comes out, am I getting rid of my PS3? No. It runs fine and plays my Redbox choice equally fine. That's my 2007 PS3. Five years in for my PS4, a next gen is coming...it just doesn't seem necessary at this point.
How they didn't run with "Eindhoven" as the codename I'll never know.
@Badboyfx86 @BAMozzy Oh I forgot, I thought it's ps4 that have 1.4tf.
@Badboyfx86 You have your opinion and I'l have mine - I think March 2020 is the latest - if they miss the Nov 2019 window. You have NO idea when Sony may have started or planned to release a PS5 - they may well have targetted Nov 2019 and the Pro at the halfway point for all you know - even if 5yrs ago it took 2yrs from basically having their specs lock down, you still don't know when Sony may have locked down the PS5 specs.
7nm Navi GPU's are set to launch this year (2018) and AMD are looking to 2019 for its 7nm server CPU (could arrive in a few months as 2019 is just a few months off). The new iPad Pro and iPhones use a 7nm chip too as does the latest Huawei smartphone too so 7nm is here already! It may take a while for it to come to consoles but there are products on the market already using 7nm tech so it IS available - if somewhat limited right now. TSMC started risk production in April 2017 of 7nm chips and began high volume production in April 2018. AMD will be showing off its 7nm processors and GPU's at CES 2019 (that's at the beginning of January by the way) which are made by TSMC. TSMC also expect to begin High Volume production of its second generation 7nm (FinFet+) in April 2019. Point is 7nm is available now - albeit in limited products but still available in commercially available devices. Its not like we have to wait until mid 2019 for the first 7nm devices to arrive - they are already here and in products. TSMC has been making 7nm in High Volume since April 2018. https://www.anandtech.com/show/12677/tsmc-kicks-off-volume-production-of-7nm-chips
@NecuVise Look at the Switch: Teaser/reveal in October, full reveal in January, launch in March. You don't need a year to hype up a console. Not in this day and age. People move on to other things very quickly, forget about it, etc. A few months is more than enough.
@Octane switch was a very different proposition - it's a successor to a very unpopular console (Wii U) and it launched with a highly praised Zelda game.l with Mario in the horizon. People will buy Nintendo for Zelda and Mario and we know it. I don't think these two are comparable. Besides, I'm not saying you need the whole year as reveal in March with launch in November is 8 months difference.
@NecuVise There's also plenty of people who buy a PlayStation system just because it's PlayStation. So the idea of a launch in spring could work for them. Early adopters will buy it at launch, and the general masses will buy it in autumn, it's almost like two launches in a single year.
I much rather have a camera in my controller instead of a mini screen.
also that does not mean that the console will focus on VR.
the current controller has bad tracking in some VR games so it's only logical that Sony want to fix that with a better tracking system.
there will most likely be more VR games next gen,but I still think that non VR games will dominate the market just like this gen. it's simply to early to have a big focus on VR only AAA games when small VR games still struggle to work properly,and I think that they are still developing ways to not get sick when using it.
so don't worry ps5 will mostly still be a non VR console just like the PS4 but with a better tracking system for the games that do have VR.
Oh and psv just stands for ps5 but with the roman number and not playstation VR.
@NoxAeturnus or how about this PERHAPS it has nothing to do with VR at all and maybe just MAYBE it's the roman numeral for 5 "V" so PSV=PS5
@Sebatrox how is that a bad name?
it still means ps5 just with a different sign for the number,where as
the name xbox one did not make any sense at all for a follow up to the 360.
There's no way VR is getting bundled with PS5.
The cost would be in the $800+ range, there's no way.
It'll probably be another two-part thing: $399 PS5 + $349 PSVR v2.
PS5 will be spec'ed for true 4K gaming and will have 4K UHD drive.
PSVR v2 will look & work similarly, but w/ higher rez and less fuzz factor.
@BAMozzy Are you really comparing cell phone chips to a Console? and why would you think Navi is launching this year ?????
https://www.notebookcheck.net/New-details-on-the-upcoming-AMD-Navi-gaming-GPUs-emerge.360511.0.html
AMD just launched a 12nm 590x yesterday
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pcgamesn.com/amd-rx-590-review-benchmarks-powercolor-red-devil%3famp
@JJ2 I thought it was called PSV b/c the only game it's ever getting is GTAV. Remastered in native 4k, 60fps and HDR of course. None of which it currently has, even on Pro or X1X.
I can see the marketing next holiday already:
"GTAV on PSV - Play it like you'Ve neVer seen it before."
@FullbringIchigo Never suggested the V in PSV was for VR. Vomit? Yes. I did suggest that. Obviously what it actually means is 5, which you so astutely pointed out. Thanks for that. Never would have guessed. No, my comment about VR was because the article said this: "According to the so-called “insider”, the new console's controller will include a camera for improved virtual reality tracking."
@NoxAeturnus i really don't see why it would have a camera in the controller though, i mean most VR games use the PlayStation Move so what good would a camera in the controller be
i think that one is a load of bull
@FullbringIchigo I hope you're right, and it could be a load of bull. It's a rumor after all. But if they're truly doubling down on VR I will be a bit disappointed. I haven't met a VR rig yet that didn't make me feel sick. Sony's riding high right now though, so I wouldn't put it past them to make some sort of costly misstep.
@NoxAeturnus i'm blind i one eye so for me VR is pretty useless anyway
@Badboyfx86 I never said Navi which is due in the first half of 2019 with Navi 20 - the high end GPU coming late 2019. However AMD are still planning to releases a 7nm GPU this year - https://wccftech.com/amd-confirms-new-7nm-radeon-graphics-cards-launching-in-2018/ 7nm Vega GPU's. AMD demonstrated working 7nm at Computex back in June.
To quote:-
The company had already demonstrated working 7nm GPU silicon back in June at Computex, which has been sampling since and is set to be available for purchase later this year. Based on an improved iteration of the Vega architecture which debuted last year, 7nm Vega is nothing short of a beast. The new GPU supports intrinsic AI instructions and features four HBM2 8GB stacks running across a 4096-bit memory interface for a total of 32GB vRAM.
AMD’s 7nm Vega is a Monster – 1.25x Turing’s Compute at Half The Size
Whilst the company hasn’t disclosed detailed specifications relating to the new GPU we could reasonably expect around one terabyte/s of memory bandwidth, higher clock speeds and significantly better power efficiency thanks to TSMC’s leading-edge 7nm process technology, which has reportedly enabled the company to extract an unbelievable 20.9 TFLOPS of graphics compute out of 7nm Vega, according to one source. If true, it would make it the world’s first 20 TFLOPS GPU.
7nm Vega seems to be no slouch and far more compute than you would expect the PS5 to have - and that's supposedly launching this year - as in 2018. No doubt the PS5 will have a custom APU specific to the Console - It may well have some 'unique' aspects as well as some aspects taken from Polaris, Vega and/or Navi too - after all the Pro had some aspects of Vega built in before Vega released so its not unusual for Sony to cherry pick what features they want for their hardware so it will be unique. In other words its not likely to be a 'Navi' with a few cores blocked off and down clocked for console tolerances - just like the Pro isn't a Polaris but a hybrid of various different AMD GPU features built specifically for Sony - hence the Pro has FP16 support and built in object tracking to improve CB rendering - neither of which are in an Xbox X because Sony wanted those features.
Like I also said, there is 7nm devices on the market already - the 2018 Apple iPad Pro, iPhones and a smartphone by Huawei too. TSMC, who supply 7nm to AMD amongst others have been making 7nm FinFet chips in high volume since April 2018 and intend to start their High Volume manufacture of its 2nd gen 7nm FinFet+ chips in April 2019.
For all we know, Sony could have 7nm Dev Kits out but because of NDA's and the fact they are not 'commercially' available, doesn't mean that Sony can't have 7nm yet considering TSMC has been making 7nm Chips since April - 9months ago!!
There is an assumption that 7nm isn't due to arrive until mid 2019 at the earliest and therefore that will be a factor in determining when the next gen hardware can be expected. 7nm though has been mass produced since April this year. In 2017, it was undergoing its fail rate test manufacture - in other words determining its yield risk. Sony and MS both reduce yield risk by having their GPU's built with more cores than is required so if a core or two fail, the APU isn't a right off. AMD can use the the chips that may have a few faulty cores at the the lower end of their range as these will have cores disabled too - that's how they deal with the yields and that cuts down wastage and risk. Anyway that's getting a bit off topic, the point is TSMC began high volume manufacture of 7nm 9months ago and the first commercially available devices with 7nm from TSMC are already on the market - since September 2018 I believe. That's 14months before a potential Nov 2019 PS5 launch and, like I said before, the PS4 Pro had features from vega before vega launched and with Navi coming in the first half of 2019, the technology is clearly available for Sony now - let alone a years time in Nov 2019.
@BAMozzy Technology isn’t the problem for when PS5 could launch it’s having the software available for it, There is no chance of a PS5 launching next year and this is what you exactly said about Navi in your comment 7nm Navi GPU's are set to launch this year (2018) you’re delusional in what you write and a 7nm Vega isn’t for gaming, you need to really look into what you post. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-vega-20-7nm-graphics-cards/amp/
@BAMozzy
You got it wrong man. Navi 12 is actually coming first next year for pc and then Navi 10 for ps5 is supposed to follow.
@JJ2 @Badboyfx86 From https://www.notebookcheck.net/New-details-on-the-upcoming-AMD-Navi-gaming-GPUs-emerge.360511.0.html dated 13th Nov 2018 - Sources close to WCCFTech inform that AMD is planning to release the Navi 12 GPUs at some point in H1 2019 and these will be the mid-range successors for the current RX 590 GPUs. The new chips will use a new architecture unlike the GCN one that is still used in Polaris 30 and Vega 56/64. Additionally, the Navi 12 should integrate 40 compute units that amount to 2560 stream processors. AMD is also readying the Navi 10 and Navi 20 high-end GPUs, but those are supposed to be launched in late 2019.
As this, and so many other articles state, there is a Navi 10, 12 and 20. Whether the upcoming Radeon 7nm is used for gaming or not, its still a 7nm GPU being released this year. I wrote Navi by mistake and meant Vega - my mistake BUT the fact still remains that 7nm is available, 7nm devices are releasing and don't give me the BS about these just being mobile versions as a mobile version Jaguar is in Current generation consoles for its CPU.
So what if the first 'gaming' GPU's using 7nm release in H1 2019, the first 7nm GPU that delivers around 20tflops will be released this year - that is still a 7nm GPU. The PS5 will be a custom built GPU - likely based around Navi - but its still using 7nm and TSMC have multiple orders from various different partners for 7nm silicon. Did either of you bother to read the wccftech article or are you too busy making up your own stories to fit your own argument??
Here is some information about Navi 12 if you are interested https://wccftech.com/exclusive-first-amd-navi-gpu-will-have-40-cus-and-is-codenamed-navi-12/
I have provided links t very up to date articles on 7nm AMD plans and shown that 7nm is out in the world already so its not as if AMD have to wait for TSMC to be ready to start manufacturing 7nm silicon. A year is a very long time and Sony 'could' go with 2nd gen 7nm finfet+ and still hit the Nov 2019 release window. They could have 7nm dev kits already made - since TSMC has been making 7nm silicone in High Volume for 9months - that's much more important factors than pedantics. Its not that the technology isn't already available and then having to wait until 7nm can be made - its already being made. Navi and its new architecture is already being lab tested by AMD too - ahead of schedule and better than they expected too.
@NoxAeturnus Responses like this really puzzle me. VR is an addon to a machine - not a requirement. It's like saying "I'm out on next gen because it has support for steering wheels and I don't like driving games. That's it. I'm out."
The controller has a camera for VR? I dunno about this. Sony had gone all in on sharing on social media with PS4. IF there is a camera on Dualshock 5's it would likely be embedded in the device for video chat purposes, and not for VR tracking. Without 2 cameras to register depth and spacial tracking - the DS5 would be unable to attain 6 degrees of freedom. One poster here said he only has use of one eye so VR is no good for him.. same problem with a single camera. If a tracking camera cannot register depth, it's no use for VR. The PS5's specs from this "insider" were revealed/speculated some time ago. Digital Foundry even did an episode on it. Plus - the guy refers to the PSVR's processor box as a "breaking box" - which isn't even a term. "Breakout box" is a recognized term.
ADDITIONALLY - PSV is not a Sony codename. PS4 was Orbis, PS4 Pro was Neo. Unreal Engine pointers are showing a suspected PS5 codename of Erebus.
...PSV is NOT a codename.. I think this guy is full of doodoo - but as reported, he's getting his 15 mins of fame.
@BAMozzy
I don't know why your being so defensive man. My comment referred exactly to the same WCCFT article, actually a video, which is already a few weeks old.
THEY believe and have said for a while, that Navi will be for PS5. In that article THEY are saying Navi 12 is for pc and Navi 10, presumably for PS5, either is scrapped or will be coming at a later date
Now my comment was saying you were wrong about Navi for this year and you admitted your mistake.
It's all good. I don't know why your betting excited
@BAMozzy You really need help and a life, now your saying PS5 could even launch on 7nm+ November 2019, I can’t stand talking to you or reading your long winded essays I’ll just hit the ignore button your beyond delusional.
@JJ2 He’s a delusional goner
@Badboyfx86 Of course the PS5 could use 7nm FinFet+ as it should be in production in plenty of time - I doubt it will but the point I was making is that TSMC will start making Gen2 7nm 9months before the PS5 'could' launch if they target Nov 2019. Its more likely to use the 1st gen 7nm FinFet to keep the costs down but my point was to show that the 2nd gen 7nm chips will have been in production for a significant amount of time - enough time that Sony 'could' (not saying they will or even that I expect them to) use 2nd gen 7nm yet you seemed adamant that 7nm won't be 'ready' for years... and you call me delusional!!! Jeez grow up and stop acting like your name!!
@Party_Cannon What's puzzling? I didn't say I was out yet. I said I'd be out if they double down on VR. I didn't engage in inane hyperbole, such as VR will cause this system to fail to sell. Those opinions always baffle me - like one person's personal disappointment determines the system's fate. Even if they go full VR, it could be very successful, but I personally wouldn't buy it. You don't bake expensive tech like VR into your system unless you expect it to be used. If it's an add-on, it's just a gimmick. I'm good with that. If it's not, well then I have to consider the value I'll get for the money - how many games will be available that don't use that tech? If VR is standard I'll certainly wait a year or two before buying the system to see what kind of games library emerges. Pretty simple. Look at Nintendo, especially Wii era Nintendo. Some people love motion controls, some people hate them. If you hate motion controls, you have to weigh how many games will be available for you to enjoy on the system against the costs of owning that system. It detracts from the value equation for that person. As you say, the rumors are probably crap anyway, so the argument is probably moot.
@JJ2 I am sorry, I thought you may have been commenting about a later post. The only thing that I have seen is that Sony are expected to use a custom built GPU based on Navi architecture - certainly not Navi 12 and very unlikely to be Navi 20 too. Until Sony and/or AMD are willing and/or able to discuss the GPU in detail, it will remain speculation. It may have a lot in common with the PC Navi GPU's but I expect it will have some unique that are not found in AMD's PC GPU's. That was the case for the Pro and its Polaris based GPU - that had features not found in the PC Polaris GPU's. Its that level of customisation and design that means you can't take AMD's road map as indicative of Sony's too. Its not as if Sony has to wait until AMD have the PC Navi 10/20 on the market so they can pick one up off the shelf and put it in their PS5 like PC gamers will have to do if they want a Navi GPU.
Sony may have their APU higher up the manufacturing list after collaborating with AMD - in other words, they may have their first wave of APU's being made before TSMC move on to making AMDs Navi 10/20 chips to have their console manufactured ready to launch in Nov 2019. For AMD, the money from Sony is likely to be more significant than selling their own Navi GPU's as the Console will be manufactured and sold for years whilst the GPU may only be made for a year until its superseded by next years version.
Sony: I wonder what else we can throw into the controller to drain even more out of the piss-poor battery life.
Your part of the problem by publishing this doesn't that make you rumour mongers just as much as the source in question????
A camera in the control pad? I'm not playing games while I'm on the John anymore then.
@BAMozzy
I must say I only follow the news and just try to use common sense but....what if you are both right?
Dev kit are using the tech available today but I heard Navi is basically the same performance made cheaper and smaller for a reasonable commercialisation.
So what your talking about might be the dev kits. But for the ps5 Sony need what they specifically asked from AMD which is Navi 10. How's that?
@JJ2 Maybe Navi 10 and 20 are set to use the 2nd Gen 7nm FinFet+ and therefore won't be available until TSMC start High Volume Manufacture - expected to begin in April next year. Navi 12 though is to use the first gen 7nm FinFet so the first 7nm Gaming GPU to market. The first 7nm GPU from AMD - the Radeon Instinct is expected this year.
Its still not clear on the architecture of Navi though - reports suggest that Navi will be a new microarchitecture not based on GCN but others seem to indicate its the next and possibly last iteration of the GCN architecture that follows on from Polaris and Vega but in the 7nm silicone before the Super SIMD replaces GCN.
If you read the articles about the Navi 12, there is confusion as to whether that is completely new or still limited by the GCN - the wccftech claim that Navi is no longer based on the Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture, but already on the successor architecture uArch. If its not based on GCN, there could be more stream processors in the compute units than in GCN. With GCN, you get 64 stream processors (shaders) per CU so a 40CU would have 2560 shaders. If you x2 (for FP32) the shaders and then multiply by the clock speed, you get the flops of a GPU but its not clear if Navi is limited to 64 shaders per CU and just 64CU's as the GCN architecture is or not.
Point is, there are some rumours/speculation that Navi isn't based on GCN and others that seem to think Navi is the 6th and possible final gen GCN. Performance wise, it may well be similar to what we have - just smaller and more efficient to keep it cheap and accessible. £200 for a GPU that's offering GTX1080+ performance would be incredibly competitive in the market but that doesn't give us an indication of the possibilities of Navi or its architecture either - just that AMD are targetting the mid-range market, likely to keep it cheap rather than show off what this architecture can do when pushed to its max. Could it have 128 shaders per CU - something that GCN can't offer?
As for Navi 10/20, wouldn't these still be the same architecture as Navi 12 rather say Navi 12 being essentially Vega shrunk to 7nm and then Navi 10/12 being completely 'new'? Maybe that is the case but the reports seem to indicate that all the Navi GPU's are using the same 'new' architecture. Navi is supposed to be the AMD PC release of this architecture and like the Polaris RX480 and PS4 Pro GPU's 'differ', I would expect Navi 10 - if its still to release - to differ from the PS5. Again, Sony and MS may have GPU's based on certain architecture - like the 4th gen GCN Polaris but also have custom features built in to suit their needs - even design goals - like Pro's 'butterfly' configuration to switch off half the GPU when playing non-pro enhanced games.
As they say, time will tell. I do think though that the later Navi GPU's will be using 7nm FinFet+ based on their release window and not related to Sony's time scales. If one of your best customers demands something by a certain date, you work on it and fit your own plans around that. If Sony wanted to release a PS5 in Nov, you wouldn't turn round and say we can't do it - you would make sure everything is ready to go so they can make enough to launch with. Sony aren't going to wait for Navi 10 to release so they can take those of the shelf so to speak and put them in their console - they will want their hardware by a certain deadline to fit into their roadmap. Its probably worth more to AMD than their own PC GPU's are - and like I said above, AMD GPU's are short lived compared to the life of a console - Navi 10 won't be made in anywhere near the quantities as a PS5 or for as long either.
@BAMozzy
Of course Sony set their deadline to AMD and maybe why Navi 10 is coming after Navi 12.
It's not because the technogy is available next year like you said that's going to change anything.
Eventually it depends on what Sony plans are.
@JJ2 That was my point. Some have said Sony cannot bring out the PS5 because 7nm isn't 'ready' and won't be ready until 2020 - yet but as there are already 7nm products on the market, that isn't the case. The Pro had features from Vega before Vega launched too so again proving that Sony didn't have to wait for Vega to release before they could take bits from that they wanted so may not have to wait for AMD's PC Navi GPU's for their PS5. If reports are true that Sony worked with AMD on Navi, maybe they get to release first with AMDs PC GPU releasing after.
I was merely pointing out that Sony will be on their own road map and that the 7nm is available - even in GPU's - albeit for non-gaming GPU's - this year. The first Navi GPU is expected in the first half of 2019 too and will that be radically different from 10/20? I don't mean in terms of Tflops, Memory or CU's but architecturally - if it is, then is it really a 'Navi'? TSMC, who will no doubt be making the 7nm silicone for PS5 will be making its 2nd gen 7nm FinFet+ from April next year.
Point is, the tech is not likely to be the 'hold-up' IF Sony want to release in Nov 2019 to hit the Holiday season or even 2020 IF that is their road map plan - not because of waiting for 7nm to arrive or AMD to release their Navi GPU's. Its now in Sony's hands essentially as to when they want to bring their PS5 to market - whether that is Nov 2019, March 2020 or Nov 2020. They are not being 'forced' to wait for tech so cannot release in Q4 2019 as some seem keen to shout.
@BAMozzy
Well there could be shortage that make it more reasonable to delay a few months though but yes. I'm not sure why theres a debate.
@JJ2 I am not debating with you but if you read post #31, the opening line said that PS5 can't launch in Nov 2019 because 7nm isn't available and that has been a few peoples argument as to why it won't be Nov 2019. 7nm was available for a Nov 2018 release if that was the date on Sony's roadmap as proven by Septembers iPad Pro and iPhone launch - both using 7nm. If it was Sony's plan to release sooner, I am sure they would go with 14nm if 7nm wasn't available anyway and release a 7nm PS5 Slim at a later date when 7nm was available.
At the moment, the only thing we know for sure is that its not on Sony's road map to release a PS5 in the next few months - given that we haven't yet had any announcements. Sony 'could' announce the PS5 literally a couple of months before its due - as they did with the Pro and have said, they prefer to announce hardware later rather than sooner - unlike MS who announced the X over year before release and already have mentioned its next generation console(s) too...
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