Topic: Official Push Square Xbox Thread

The latest digital foundry ps4 pro to xbox one x comparison for titanfall 2 is kinda hilarious, textures, framerate, locked resolution and some other junk perform better on the pro, don't worry though cut scenes perform better on the one x. One has to imagine further patches are due but currently it's a bit sad.

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi It was a poor effort - if any effort at all was put in. Sure it will be patched properly - its not as if the Pro launched smoothly and games delivering as expected either. Its only one game - with the others offering a lot more so sucks if the only enhanced game you have is a dead 1yr old EA published game when all the others do a much better job.

@BAMozzy as they said in the review, it's bizarre the results they got, they must be working on further patches, not great for launch if word starts getting round the Pro is on par, work in progress as with any new gen/mid gen, they'll take time to optimise it

@Bad-MuthaAdebisi Thing is, its just 1 game and there are a lot of others that clearly surpass this and better the PS4 Pro. would think that most people would put the blame on Respawn rather than see it as an Xbox weakness. I doubt it will impact many but could be used by PS fanboys to try and win some petty argument until its resolved.

As I said, its not like the Pro had a perfect start either with a number of games running worse than base PS4 and it didn't offer any advantage to the majority of games available - at least not for months until they added 'Boost' mode. would be very surprised if TF2 doesn't get a 'fix' in the common weeks. You would hope though that they at least tested the patch and were 'happy' with it before rushing it out and disappointing the 'few' that bothered to buy it.

So anybody got their XB1X/Scorpio yet, i can't afford one even if i wanted one but i am curious to hear what people think of it

is the worth the extra £250 next to the XB1s?

how do the patched games stack up, any issues?

does it have any exclusive features the XB1s doesn't have?

you know those kind of things

@Fullbringlchigo I have just had my Scorpio delivered literally 20 minutes ago, I’d post photos but don’t know how to on these forums. I’m ready to pack away the XB1S now to give to my son for Christmas. I like the Project Scorpio design it’s actually nice and subtle. I’m yet to fire it up to see how the enhanced games look, how it sounds running etc. but as for it being an extra £250, I’d say that depends on how much you care about increased graphics fidelity and frame rates, I feel that it’s justified because I have a 4K HDR TV and know I will be getting the very best out of it. I’ll update whatever else I find out about the console.

@BAMozzy Have you heard anything from Amazon about your Scorpio yet?

@MaccaMUFC

Mine is currently sitting at one of my neighbour's house so it'll have to wait until I get home from work. I'm certainly looking forward to road testing it tonight!

@MaccaMUFC Yeah - eventually! It was dispatched at 23.55 last night! Fortunately I had an 'out for delivery' message at 9.20 and was here and set up by 11.30. I was surprised at how subtle the dot pattern is and the 'Project Scorpio' on the front is small. Otherwise I like it. Just having a break after spending 4-5hrs on Assassins Creed: Origins. Looked great but never saw how 'bad' it looked on a Standard XB1. Spent 10mins just looking at Gears 4 for the 'differences' 4k HDR makes over just HDR.

@FullbringIchigo I think the extra is definitely worth it. It really may depend though on what games you have, what TV you have and how much use you will get out of it. Its quiet and even after 5-6hrs, it wasn't exactly 'hot'. Loading is noticeably quicker but I haven't tried every game. The more games you own, the more I think it makes sense to spend the extra. The more games that can and will benefit - not just patched games but EVERY game see's some benefit and at the very least, that's in loading times. Anisotropic Filtering does make a difference in the quality of textures you see - especially those at angles to you that normally look soft and blurred. Other benefits though depend on the game - whether it dropped frames and/or resolution but if they do, then the X will ensure they run much better with fewer, smaller or even NO drops at all. A game like Project Cars, which at its most taxing, would normally run at 35-40fps but the full 60fps on X. If you have Forza 6 though - a game that runs at 1080/60 with 'no' drops, the only benefit is loading and anisotropic filtering - so it does depend on the games you have, how well they run etc as to whether its worth the extra.

If you want the best looking games on Console, the X is going to deliver that - whether you have a 1080p TV or not. Some games, those not patched and locked to 900p won't 'look' as sharp as the PS4 1080p versions. Supersampled from 4k to 1080p is better than native 1080p and some games offer 'Quality' modes so you can get a much better visual setting option and don't notice any 'drops' in resolution like you do on a 4k screen - most Quality modes run at a lower resolution or use CB rendering so when supersampled down to 1080p you don't get any of the 'softer' images or CB artefacts (not that CB artefacts are obvious at normal distances.

So far, there are not too many 4k patched games - at least not that I own. HDR is certainly a bigger jump than 4k but 4k on a 4k screen is incredible. I know 1080p looks great but on a 4k screen, its enlarged by 400% and therefore it looks soft and a bit blurry too. Having a higher pixel count really does make a big difference - more so than it does for film/TV. With 170(ish) games now confirmed to be getting an enhanced mode, and I bet that will grow and grow, chances are that you will see a big benefit in lots of games that appeal. Rise of the Tomb Raider is the only game I think I have on both Pro and X and the difference that native 4k with 4k textures makes is definitely noticeably better than the Pro. The big bonus though is that 'Quality' mode is also 4k (CB) with 4k textures on the X but only 1080p on the Pro - better than Pro's 'High Res 4k CB mode!

Like I said though, its not necessarily worth the extra £250 over a standard XB1s or the extra £100 over a Pro to everyone. The more games you have, the more you intend to buy, the amount of use you will get from it etc all have to be factored in. From my perspective, with a massive library of games going right back to the OG Xbox and owning a 4k HDR TV, it was a 'no-brainer' and easily worth the money - even though I do have an OG Xbox, an XB360, on OG XB1 and a XB1s. The benefits to the games I already own as well as the benefits to games I intend to buy are worth the extra to me. But someone with few games (if any), a 1080p TV and not bothered to much about the benefits (don't underestimate the benefits to non-patched games or super-sampled images) and not likely to spend a lot of time gaming on the console then its probably better to stick with what you have or at least wait for price drops, bundles etc.

@BAMozzy What differences (if any) did you notice with Gears 4 now running in 4K?

Do you know which games are actually enhanced right now? I know AC: Origins is but what about the others like COD WWII, Wolfenstein 2 and any other of the older games?

Edit: I just figured out how to see which games has been enhanced, you go to “my games and apps” and above where the games are is an option that says “all” in the top right corner, just change it to “Xbox One X Enhanced Games”. At the moment there’s only AC: Origins, Wolfenstein 2, Hitman, Crossout, Halo 5 and World of Tanks. That’s not a lot at all (even at launch) compared to the other 160-odd games that are getting enhanced, I thought CoD: WWII would of been enhanced by now too. And to answer my own question to you about Gears 4 running in 4K, I’m guessing you didn’t see much of a difference, seeing as it’s not even enhanced yet 😂

@MaccaMUFC It is enhanced - maybe yours hasn't but Gears 4 was one of the first games that was for me at least.

https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/xbox-one/xbox-one-x-enhanced... for a list of games that are enhanced - some available now. I have around 7 on this list - still waiting on a few like Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 for example Forza Horizon 3 too.

If your games haven't updated, try loading them up and see if an update is required. Its not 'always' seeing the games you have installed and updating automatically. I played Gears over a year ago and in HDR upscaled o 4k so I thought it looked great - better than most 1080p games of that time because of HDR. Therefore, the increase in resolution and other tweaks have helped it look a lot sharper but not the same 'impact' that HDR had on me. It was the first HDR game I played too so maybe left a bit more of an impression than it deserved. I still remember the first game I played in HD on a big screen and how that blew me away visually. I only looked at 2 levels in the campaign and for no more than 10mins but I could see the difference in pixel count but it still looked 'stunning' in HDR. The biggest difference is that sharpness - the lack of Softness. If I had time to spare and could go back to the original 1080p easily enough, I am sure that I could compare and contrast to see how much of difference things like better ambient occlusion and dynamic shadows make but as I was only having a quick look, it was mostly the jump in resolution that was noticeable.

Of those 160+ games, don't forget though that many are unreleased games - like Anthem, Metro, Crackdown 3, Sea of Thieves, Farcry 5, State of Decay etc so having '70' during the first week (I believe 60 were available on 7th Nov) is quite impressive - around double the PS4 Pro enhanced games at launch. Then of course, you have the 'boost' mode advantage right from launch too - all those non-patched games that benefit from more resources, better loading times and built in anisotropic filtering. Of the 160 'games' I don't expect that I will own 25% of them so I never expected more than half a dozen to be available on day 1. It turns out 7 were for me - inc CoD:WW2 I believe...

I was playing AC Black Flag last night as I only have 3 more Achievements to 100% and I don't want to leave it and that looked sharper in the background stuff and it certainly loaded faster, when it's loading up levels and such.

@crippyd That's to be expected for non-patched games. The extra 4GB of RAM is used as a Cache to significantly improve loading times, improve transitions etc. It doesn't have to ditch a load of assets to 'reload' again when you die for example and keeps them in the cache. The built in Anisotropic Filtering also improves the look of textures - especially to make them look sharper further away from the 'camera' and at more oblique angles. If the game used Dynamic Scaling and unlocked frame rates, you should see a better, more consistent PQ and frame rates. That's what MS promised for older, non-patched games and why so many will be 'enhanced' even if they are not 'enhanced' specifically for 4k. Its difficult to talk about 'enhancements' when that automatically conjures up the 4k enhanced games rather than those that are 'generically' enhanced by the X and its power without 'developer' interaction. Its the equivalent of PS4's 'Boost' mode - although its a more significant boost, its still an 'inbuilt' enhancement rather than a 'developer' patch enhancement. We talk about the 160+ games that have developer support as being those 'enhanced' games but the reality is that virtually ALL games are enhanced by the X with those developer supported enhanced games able to use the full capacity of the X. Like the PS4's 'Boost' mode, the X's uses only half of the CPU - so you are still getting a massive boost over the base - more than 2x boost (3tflops roughly) as well as the boost to CPU, RAM bandwidth and 4GB of RAM Cache, Higher bandwidth HDD - so the very least you get is faster loading and better texture filtering but can't run above their capped resolution/frame rate so won't 'enhance' beyond the 'developers' limitations. It does mean though, that these games can still look, play and feel 'enhanced' over the S versions but not to the same degree as a 'developer' patched enhanced game.

@BAMozzy What does PQ mean? It is slightly disappointing that, as I've said to you before, my TV is older so it is missing out on HDR10 so I'm not getting the full benefit of the X currently. I'll have to go on a scouting mission to see if I can find a reasonable cost new one.

PQ = Picture Quality. With games using Dynamic scaling, that means that the PQ is fluctuating as the game needs to flatten out the frame rate. The PQ is only at its 'best' when its delivering the maximum resolution - whatever that maybe. If a game normally spends most of its time at 900p for example but drops to 782p in intense situations BUT could go upto 1080p in very few select circumstances (often when in narrow corridors with NOTHING happening, no sparks, no enemies, no crazy lighting effects etc) then the PQ is only at its 'best' very rarely. On an X, it could run entirely at 1080p - the max cap of the game and thus delivering the 'best' PQ it can.

If you are on the hunt for a new TV, look for the UHD Premium logo if you are unsure of which TV's to buy. This ensures your TV delivers the minimum standards of HDR10 - the minimum standards to which the content must be made to. This guarantees that it has the 'deepest' blacks necessary to show shadow details rather than just 'black blobs', the necessary Peak Brightness to show off specular highlights as well as more 'lifelike' objects - like Neon glows, electrical sparks etc, and of course the minimum Wide Colour Gamut to bring those vivid colours to look more natural. Any TV that doesn't meet these specs, can still be HDR but obviously they are not to the minimum standards that HDR10 content is made to.

Sony and Panasonic refuse to offer up their TV's to be independently verified and therefore won't have a UHD Premium verification on the few sets that would pass. That's were research will come in. Sony only have the XE/XD 93+ (9305 in the UK for example), ZD9 and A1 OLED and Panasonic only have the DX902b and both 952/1002 OLEDs that offer UHD Premium quality. The XE9005 though is a 'great' TV that 'just' misses out on the necessary standards - its 950nits - not over 1000nits, its Gamut is just at the limit - 89-90% DCi-P3 which can pass or miss out depending on individual sets and measuring device used. Its still way better than the Samsung MU series in terms of how close it comes to passing UHD Premium standards for example and some 'HDR' TV's only offer the means to play it. Some SDR TV's can go brighter but because the TV will play HDR content to the 'max' of its ability - even if that means converting it to 'SDR' but playing it back with the brightness on Max. You lose out on black levels, peak brightness and colour gamut but its still sold as a 'HDR' TV.

The 'best' 4k HDR gaming TV at the moment would have to be the C7/B7 OLEDs from LG. They cost under £2k for a 55" model and whilst that is expensive, its still the best gaming TV of 2017 and offers the full UHD Premium quality. The Q series by Samsung are decent but 'over-priced' for what they are - basically last years KS range but with an extra £1k price tag. They have dropped a bit now but could be the cheapest current UHD Premium LCD option with the best input lag. If you are going to do HDR Properly then look for those type of TV's. Its definitely worth looking around Black Friday and the Jan Sales as retailers clear stock for the arrival of 2018 models in March+. There is a decent argument to wait now, to make do with what you have as HDMI 2.1 is coming and along with that, the possibility of Game VRR compatible TV's - something else the X offers. Also with no 'Audio' HDMI output, you can only get Atmos audio by passing the picture through an AVR but with HDMI2.1, you could connect directly to TV and pass the Atmos through the TV via eARC. eARC is superior to ARC and also allows auto synching so the audio is in sync with the display. Because of these, it may well be worth waiting to see if any 2018 TV has these features as the X will certainly benefit more by these.

@BAMozzy Thanks for the list, I only went by what games were shown enhanced when I went on “my games and apps”. I was holding off playing CoD: WWII till I knew it was enhanced. AC: Origins is the first and only game I’ve played so far for an hour earlier and did notice that it updated as I started the game up, now I know it was an enhancement update.

With AC: Origins did you notice the first cutscenes were very choppy and the textures looked very flat? It was only when I first took control of Bayek that I saw how stunning the game looked while in gameplay but it was strange seeing that the gameplay looked and ran better than the cutscenes 🤔

Seeing as we both own the same TV model, how do you enable HDR? I mean I’m sure I’ve been using HDR correctly or I hope I have been but just want to be sure, do you just put the ‘backlight’ to max at 20 and then just put ‘smart led’ to high? That’s all there is to it, no changing any other settings on the TV or Xbox? I just don’t want to be thinking I’m watching stuff in HDR when in fact all I’ve done is just increased the brightness.

AC Origins cut scenes have been criticised for their drop in frame rate performance so that's why they are a bit choppy. Not so sure I remember much about them looking flat though. Textures are standard across the whole game - whether on a base or iterative console or even PC. They only 'benefit' from the increased resolution more than by being 'higher' res - like we see used in games like Forza 7 or Shadow of War.

HDR on the KS series is just a case of adjusting the settings. You don't 'need' to adjust the Smart LED up for HDR. Its just the 'local dimming' and in Film, it gives a darker black and brighter whites but its not 'necessary'. You could leave it in 'Low' and still get excellent HDR. If you keep the colour Space in Auto, it should automatically switch to the wider colour gamut but Native forces it to the wider colour gamut regardless. Custom would limit the gamut to the SDR standard. If you don't keep it in Auto or use Custom for SDR, then you will need to change this to Auto or Native to get the wide colour gamut. As I keep mine in Auto and Smart LED on Low, the only thing I change for HDR is the backlight.

Since one of the later updates, I have not seen a 'HDR Video is Playing' come up when a HDR game is playing. You may have to try and get the info bar up to show its a HDR source. The backlight must be turned up to get the full contrast ratio and peak highlights.

All the HDR mode is, when you watch a movie and it switches automatically, is a separate but ultimately the same as the Movie mode - just with the defaults of higher backlight, native/auto colour space and maybe even a different Smart LED setting but everything else, all the other processing is still applied.

Everyone makes out that HDR is a radically different thing - but really its just ensuring that you have the wider colour range and contrast ratio. Therefore you only need to adjust the colour gamut and backlight to enable these to work properly (or at their best). As you pick 'auto' for colour space - that automatically switches between the two colour gamuts, that means the only 'necessary' adjustment is the backlight so it can reach those specular highlights and offer the big contrast ratio.

@BAMozzy So I have been using HDR correctly, I do set Smart LED to High, Colour Space is Native and I set Dynamic Contrast to High, I couldn’t go back to setting it any lower otherwise it just looks like it has a dark filter over the screen, the lower the setting the darker it gets, having it set on high just makes the image look a lot clearer and cleaner.

@MaccaMUFC I keep my Colour Space on Auto. I know Native can work well with games - given them a more saturated look but I would rather it switched between the standard REC709 gamut and REC2020 wide colour gamut. I keep both my Dynamic Contrast and Smart LED on Low. That seems to offer a great black level and retain shadow detail - no crushing and also keep Highlight detail without over blowing the whites. This also means the only thing I really have to change is the backlight. I don't tend to chop and change games often so I keep the backlight on the setting I am using for that game specific. It does mean that sometimes my Dash is far too bright but I am only seeing that for a second on boot-up before jumping into the HDR game. I can't be bothered to constantly change to SDR backlight level just for the dash and then ramp it up for a HDR game - I keep it on the setting I need for the game I am playing. I did the same on the Pro too.

Now into my third day with the X and I do think its worth the money. I did feel more cheated with the Pro - having all that power but only beneficial to a select 'few' games at launch. The boost mode did give it more 'value' in my opinion as it helped with 'non-patched' games so the £350 actually felt like it did 'something' across all/most of my games. The X obviously had 'Boost' from the start and therefore an immediate impact on every game - whether patched or not. Its still incredibly quiet and very small/neat too. The difference in games like Rise of the Tomb Raider is phenomenal and that's after playing it all again on the Pro - its one of the few games I have on both platforms and 'enhanced' for both too. If this sets the standard for the differences, then its certainly worth the extra £100 in my opinion...

Haven't got the X yet but I've just booted up my One S for the first time since the latest update and I'm really impressed with how they've improved the UI. It feels way quicker, is much less cluttered and there's a fair amount of customisation to it as well.

It feels weird to be able to say it but I think PlayStation, Nintendo, and now Xbox, have all finally mastered their interfaces.