@Th3solution I thought in a similar way until I read this article (https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-02-17-is-xbox-game-pass-too-good-to-be-true). I also remember Netflix being cheaper, so I think the price of gamepass at some stage will go up a bit. Its worth remembering lots of dlc are not included in gamepass so people might be buying season passes etc and it's a bit of license for smaller devs to be more out there if they are tied to gamepass as they are not tied to immediate sales. I scored a series x with two years gamepass ultimate and I can't fault the value proposition of that.
@Th3solution "Since we went into Game Pass, our total Xbox sales have tripled." Is just one quote from a few developers who have said something similar, even Phil Spencer has said the same about Microsoft's own games on Gamepass. Effectively it seems to be a word of mouth thing as Gamepass gets more eyes on games that may get ignored or have been forgotten about. So either those playing like and buy it (as they have a discount as part of the subscription) or their friends who may not be subscribers do so.
When games get put on Gamepass they get great coverage all over social media. Think how many people online are now talking about the likes of Dishonoured, Prey, Oblivion and Bethesda games in general because they've just gone to Gamepass
One thing to note is that sales of games on Xbox are usually significantly lower than on other platforms, so just take when the odd developer says they have seen a jump in numbers with a pinch of salt. And that just it, we are not hearing from a load of developers about this. But some people see this as proof that Gamepass is the second coming or the savior of the gaming industry. I'm not throwing shade at the service, it is obviously offering good value for some people, but sometimes perspective is needed when looking at these things and not to be so hyperbolic.
Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
@R1spam Wow, you didn’t warn me that article was so incredibly long! 😂 But honestly, it was a very interesting read and highly detailed. It does a good job at debunking a lot of the concerns about the service and the potential ramifications to the future of gaming. It does seem a little one-sided at times, but all the interviewed publishers and developers seem to give good logical reasoning and data to support the virtues of the GamePass model. It would have been nice to give some counter points from Sony, for example, as to why it their opinion that the model was unsustainable, other than the high cost of game development. I think perhaps Sony is thinking only from the standpoint of their own ecosystem, because all things point toward long term sustainability for Microsoft. Also, I would have liked to hear something about how the growth of Stadia, Luna, and Apple Arcade will affect the trajectory of GamePass. It’s a point that was glazed over and if we follow the TV/movie streaming model, the success of the subscription service is going to spawn all these competitors and how will that affect things. Right now the MS success is largely dependent on this enormous market share they are shooting for. If that gets diluted, how will it affect things?
After reading that article I am now more convinced that Sony will need to respond, in time, to the economic pressures of GamePass. Honestly, all that probably needs to be done is folding PS Plus into PS Now and then adding day 1 releases to the service. So the blueprint for a GamePass service is already there and Sony will probably just need to tweak it to be more competitive, which will be easy enough to do once they feel the pressure mount to do so.
And to answer my previous question, I do see now how having GamePass is kind of like an extended trial period for multiple games and that it will prompt purchase of certain games once they drop off the service, in particular games that have add-on content or are replayable. I could see playing, for example, Bloodborne on a service like this for a month and then buying it later with the discount in order to play the DLC or do a run on a different build. Something like Concrete Genie, however, would be unlikely to be bought and played again unless it was a few years later.
What I don’t know is how long a game typically stays on GamePass, which will definitely affect purchasing potential; and do some games stay on there indefinitely, if so then I’d like to see a breakdown of those game sales, because they likely aren’t as positively affected.
Also, like the article suggests, game sales might be higher with those who are GP subscribers, but not necessarily buying the games they played, but rather it introduces them to a genre that they end up buying other games in. So it benefits Microsoft (because they get a cut no matter what game it is, so long as it’s bought through their digital storefront) but maybe not directly the developer who made the game. But I reckon ‘a rising tide raises all ships’, so in the long run what comes around goes around so all developers eventually benefit from the free promotion.
It is noteworthy also to see that they cite the subscriber goal needing to approach 50 million to be hitting the same level of profitability they had before the service, and they still have a way to go there, since it’s currently at 18 million. They cite the 47 million PS Plus subscribers as evidence of viability of that 50 m goal, but it’s taken Sony many years to get to that PS Plus subscriber number. If this is going to be a 5 year ramp up, it is true that a lot can happen in that timeframe with the economy and streaming competition to affect the numbers, either positively or negatively.
@carlos82 Yeah the power of the word-of-mouth advertising is definitely key to this model’s success. As I said above, I think I better understand now how GP actually pushes people to purchase gaming content.
@nessisonett Very true that the industry is just too big now to have any doom and gloom outlook. The market will adjust itself, as you say, to keep things coming for the benefit of the consumer. I think the catastrophization many gamers are feeling, especially Sony players and those who like high budget single player self-contained experiences, is misplaced. But like I said up there, I’m starting to think that Sony will respond with a move before too long to compete better with GamePass.
@JohnnyShoulder It is interesting that the article above posted by R1spam had interviews mostly with small developers or publishers (Double Fine, No Brakes Games, No More Robots, and Fatshark were quoted) who are high on the service, and like you say I think they have the most to benefit from increased access and exposure to their products.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution I think that considering the industry has survived thousands of copies of E.T. in the desert, Game Pass is a minor threat in comparison. There’s probably feelings of FOMO in a lot of PlayStation players’ reactions, given that Game Pass is a great deal without many drawbacks at all. It’s as if they have to poke holes in it to feel better about themselves. It wasn’t that long ago that digital games were the threat, and now streaming and subscriptions are the problem.
@nessisonett I think you’re right, that fanboyism FOMO is largely part of the criticism. As a Sony gamer, I hope I’m right about the eventual imitation of the service on PlayStation. I really don’t want to have to juggle two or three systems. I know a lot of people like yourself enjoy living in the Xbox ecosystem in parallel with PlayStation, Nintendo, and PC, but I prefer to stay in one or two systems if I can help it, just for personal convenience.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution Honestly the only reason I pay attention to Xbox is because they saw PC as a market to tap and it totally worked. I have my laptop for Uni anyway and that way I have access to Xbox and Steam, along with plenty of things like emulators and such. I’ll always have Nintendo consoles just because I’ve always had them, I couldn’t do without certain series that I’ve followed since I was 3 years old. So essentially I have a Switch and a PS4 that the whole family play and then my laptop that I’m on for a whole bunch of things, but includes the Xbox and PC ecosystems. I think that’s the future, to introduce Steam and Xbox on more devices through streaming. They’ll always make physical devices like the Xbox in the same vein as Microsoft’s Dell PCs but I could see it becoming a platform across different devices.
Sony did well with Fall Guys as a day 1 on PS+ and that game blew up massively because of it, and the success on PC probably came off the back of that.
Some PS+ games I’ve picked up have probably done well off the back of it with DLC purchases; Borderlands 2 I got as a freebie but picked up a couple of DLC packs as I enjoyed it so much.
Merging PS+ and Now is a no brainer. I’m not sure I can see big games dropping day 1 on PS+ as I think it would need to be a regular thing to get people to sign up who wouldn’t otherwise.
The PS+ Collection is a good move but will need to keep expanding or rotating games to make it worthwhile.
GamePass still seems great but is still a fair gamble but one that will hopefully force Sony to respond.
@Thrillho Yeah, and maybe the PS Plus Collection will be the thing that evolves into the GamePass competitor and PS Now will be a separate thing. If the Collection gradually increases in size and adds PS5 games, and starts to rotate, then it’s basically become a miniature version of the GP idea, with again the only major change being the lack of new games. Right now many might argue that 20 high quality Greatest Hits — some of which are hundreds of hours of content by themselves like Monster Hunter, P5, and Fallout — is actually every bit as good a deal as having access to 200-300 games which includes the likes of EA sports games that are several years old and small indies that are charming diversions for a couple hours.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution my bad, it is wordy!! 🙈 I agree the article is one sided and your points about Sony are really interesting. I think plus, now and the base ea subscription combined is actually around the same price as gamepass ultimate but sony messaging around that is not great. Plus is better than games with gold. Tbh, it's the streaming thing I don't get about sony. Switch is partly so big in Japan because of portability and the WiFi is meant to be one of the best in the world. With 5 g becoming available as well, Ps now on smart phones, with a handset like Microsoft has for xcloud play, would do pretty well I think. That and pc are probably Microsofts best chance of hitting that 50 million mark rather than just consoles alone.
Can anyone recommend a controller that will work on the Xbox Series X, that doesn't sound like someone is writing their life story on the loudest mechanical keyboard, every time you play a game?
The MS Rewards App prompted me to "join a club" today. I didn't even know it was a thing. I'm guessing the recommendation was no accident based on the PS shutdown of its communities which I guess is a similar concept. Not that it makes a difference either way, I'm too antisocial to use such a feature on either platform!
Just started playing Fallout 4 (again) on the Series S and was surprised at how much better it looks. Runs at 60fps too. This could be where I turn into one of those 60fps snobs.
All this resident evil chat has finally made me fire up resi 7 on gamepass. Playing this with headphones on and hearing the footsteps heading towards you is so freaky! Kudos to those who have played in psvr! 🥶
I don't think the auto-hdr function that adds hdr to games that never had it gets enough praise. Playing outer wilds at the minute and when you toggle that on and off, it looks so much better with the hdr. It's just a shame that some big games are missing it. Played through gta4 ballad of gay tony, which didn't have it and keep waiting for them to fix it and add 60 fps boost for new vegas to try that game out.
Really disappointing E3 showing for me. Sure, I’ll give some a try like 12 Minutes as it’s *free, but I was really hoping for a lot more. Perfect Dark?
Looking forward to playing Flight Simulator and the new Top Gun DLC.
The highlight has to be Forza Horizon 5. That looks absolutely amazing.
*Paid ~£220 for 6 years of Game Pass Ultimate. As good as free. Haha.
I watched some of the trailers for the "big" stuff and it's still nothing that would make me want an Xbox. I suspect the indie stuff is actually more exciting but I'll have to catch up on that another day.
Halo looks fun but it's not a "I need to play this" kinda thing.
Forza Horizon looked more like an impressive tech demo than a fun game to me (I don't get the appeal open world driving games, tbh).
Stalker looks nice but it seems like a very slow paced shooter - which, again, is not my thing.
All I know about Starfield is that's it's a space game by the creators of some games I didn't care about (and it's still almost 1.5 years out). I know Elder Scrolls and Fallout are extremely popular so I get why everyone's excited but it's doing absolutely nothing for me at this point.
That said, Game Pass definitely continues to look good. I wouldn't mind PlayStation "responding" to it somehow
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