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Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

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Octane

@kyleforrester87 Ever played Metroid Prime? I don't think that's a 2018 game unfortunately, but if it's anything like the first one, it's going to be good.

Octane

kyleforrester87

@Octane Nope no experience playing Metroid. Actually I always get Metroid and Megaman mixed up in my head. You can tell I'm not the biggest Nintendoid

kyleforrester87

PSN: WigSplitter1987

Octane

@kyleforrester87 One is the blue one with the blaster, the other is the orange one with the blaster

Metroid Prime is one of the best GameCube games, a technical masterpiece for its time.

Octane

KirbyTheVampire

@kyleforrester87 Yeah, the demo is out, and I enjoyed it. It's a little different from what I'm used to, since I've never really played old school RPGs and that's clearly what Octopath is inspired by, but I could see it being a lot of fun for those who like the genre. The game is gorgeous, too.

KirbyTheVampire

johncalmc

I nearly broke my Switch twice within the first ten minutes.

Super Mario Odyssey is great. But I can't help but notice how not great it is graphically. It's really annoying me, actually. As somebody that will get zero enjoyment out of the portability of the system, it irks me that they had to sacrifice power to include that, and HD rumble, and other pointless stuff I couldn't give a fig about in order to keep costs down.

On the plus side, the system isn't as hilariously backward as usual for Nintendo. And the Pro Controller is positively great. The UI is simple and clean and just fine. I'm partly impressed with the Switch, and partly annoyed that it could be much better if wacky ol' Nintendo didn't have to be wacky ol' Nintendo and they just built a console like everyone else, without the superfluous gimmicks.

Oh, and I wish they'd stop shoe horning motion controls into otherwise wonderful games. Yes, I love throwing my magical hat in Mario. Oh, there's a homing magical hat move for if I miss? Lovely stuff. Perhaps map that to the right trigger? "No," says Nintendo. "You must wave your controller around like a drowning gibbon."

Sigh.

johncalmc

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johncalmc

@kyleforrester87 I've actually not even tried it in handheld mode yet. I just stuck it under my telly and it's been there ever since.

Pro tip #1: If you're trying to remove the Joy-Cons from the screen you need to press a little button the back on each controller. I nearly snapped mine trying to get them off before I realised that.

Pro tip #2: When the Switch is in the dock it's not really held in place by anything. So, you know, don't tip it upside down like I did.

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Octane

@johncalmc It doesn't look that bad compared to similar games, like Tearaway or Gravity Rush, on the PS4. The game's not 1080p, but it is 60fps, so there's that too.

The issue is that whenever Nintendo makes a console like the others, it doesn't sell. And as much as I would love that too, they'd fine a way to screw themselves over in the end. They're never going to abandon their handheld department, so this is the best compromise we can get I think. At least they can now focus all their efforts on one machine, and we don't have to buy two anymore. I think they're a bit early with the concept (like they were with the Virtual Boy), but when everything is all 4K in about ten years, it doesn't really matter anymore if we're playing on a ''gimped'' handheld, or the all-new 8K machine. I doubt you could tell the difference at that point.

Octane

johncalmc

@Octane They haven't really tried for generations, though. Every console they've made since the SNES has been marred by catastrophic hardware design decisions that have crippled the potential of the systems. N64 stuck with cartridges and lost loads of high profile games to PlayStation. GameCube used a proprietary medium when the world was embracing DVD, and the PS2 was the cheapest DVD player on the market. The Wii sold, but given every Nintendo system fits onto a line of best fit fairly perfectly in that it sells less than the one that came before, I think it's fair to consider that an anomaly. The Wii U was the Wii U.

I don't think for one second that if Nintendo, in 2017, built a hardcore system like a PS4 that it would sell like the PS4. They still wouldn't have as many games. They still wouldn't have third party support. They'd still be miles behind the competition in online stuff. They'd still have the issues they always have.

I just think, for the cost of the system, the trade-off of power for portability seems a high price. Maybe I'm underselling it. I could easily be, because I get absolutely nothing out of it and it's got no appeal to me. But I also don't think that the Switch is selling well because the gimmick is resonating with people. I think it's selling because it's a system with clearer messaging than the Wii U, and the hardcore crowd are picking it up in droves. I would expect once the hardcore have bought theirs, the sales will dry up because I honestly don't think it has much casual appeal, and the software line-up for anybody other than Nintendo fans is pretty weak.

It's all just hypothetical. I don't know better than anyone else. It's just what I think. The Nintendo evangelists are obviously firmly aboard the Switch is the second coming of Christ train right now, but I just think the impressive sales so far are perhaps slightly misleading, and it would be prudent to expect a crash in the coming months.

And so by my logic - which is all just guesswork, really - if the portability of the system isn't really going to drive sales, which I don't think it necessarily will, then losing power for that isn't a good trade.

I think it's unfair to compare Mario to Gravity Rush 2, though. Yes, they look similar, but Mario Odyssey is probably the most high profile game Switch will ever have. Gravity Rush 2 is a C-tier Sony game. I'm not really a graphics guy at all, and even I noticed that Mario looks pretty old. And that's sad.

Still, other than the graphical heft of the system being pretty lame, I'm actually fairly impressed with the hardware. It doesn't look like an iPad that came out of a Christmas cracker, which was always a big problem with the Wii U, and the UI and everything actually looks quite slick and modern. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it, and so as long as you go in with realistic expectations for what you'll get out of a Nintendo system these days I think you're fine.

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Octane

@johncalmc I think that's why I mostly consider it a handheld, because it's essentially a handheld with an HDMI cable (clockspeed increases when docked, but it's mostly an empty shell). And for a handheld, it's impressive. Probably the most up-to-date handheld we've ever seen compared to home consoles. I think that also explains the price tag. Their handhelds have always sold fairly well, so I think the Switch will do fine in the long run, especially since it has a wider appeal than any of their previous handhelds; It's the first one that plays games on the TV out of the box, and it passable as a home console.

For Nintendo to sell a successful home console, a lot needs to happen. Excluding the Wii, the GameCube and Wii U weren't big sellers. That alone tells me that the people looking for a Nintendo experience on the TV is pretty small (a shame IMO). I think that releasing a new home console would pose all kinds of other problems, even if they fix their online. PlayStation has a big name, it's the go-to console since the PS1, even the PS3 managed to turn things around. It'll take several home consoles for Nintendo to reach the same heights. A futile strategy at this point IMO. Like I said, I think – provided we will still be playing on dedicated hardware in 10+ years from now – every device is going to be portable to some degree. Because at some point, more powerful hardware will be meaningless if you can't tell the difference, and if developing a game that makes use of the extra horsepower becomes too expensive to develop in the first place. Might as well make your devices smaller (& portable).

Anyway, we shall see how well it sells. I think that if enough ''core'' people jump on it, the masses will follow. I just hope Nintendo can keep up their software output, because they've had a fantastic year so far, but I can't foresee the same calibre games releasing every year (a new Mario, Zelda, Splatoon, a new IP and a Mario Kart).

The biggest problem will be how third parties are going to approach the system. Most third party games require a download to be playable, since they all opt for the smaller game cards. And the system only comes with 32GB. I think that's going to hurt sales.

Octane

johncalmc

@Octane I think that's probably wise, actually. If I were Nintendo, I would have marketed it as the most powerful handheld console ever made. Instead, it's the most-expensive, obviously weakest home console on the market - a market which will likely be moving into a new generation within the next couple of years. If you consider it to be a handheld then you're probably well happy with it. As a home console gamer - I've got a Vita and nearly always play it sat on my couch wishing it hooked up to my TV so I could play Persona 4 Golden on the telly - it's a bit lame in some areas.

But then I knew when I bought it that this would be my Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon machine, and pretty much anything else I play is a bonus.

johncalmc

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Ralizah

@johncalmc The versatility of the system isn't a "superfluous gimmick," it's the reason it's the hottest gaming system on the market right now. User data obtained from Nintendo proves this point: people like to use it primarily as a hybrid, both on and off the TV. It's a revolution in terms of accessibility. That's worth a lot more to me than a boring box that tethers me to my TV when I play.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

johncalmc

@Ralizah The data doesn't prove anything, though. All it says is that, of the people who have bought it so far, the vast majority of which will be hardcore gamers, and hardcore Nintendo gamers at that, they're using it in roughly an equal ratio as a handheld or a home console. It tells us nothing because the system hasn't been on the market long enough for the casual market to speak.

Once the hardcore Nintendo crowd get their consoles, then we'll see what sort of life the console will have. Until then, all we can do is guess. The hardcore Nintendo crowd are probably the least relevant demographic in gaming. They'd buy anything. And they'll defend any decisions made by Nintendo, regardless of how silly or counterproductive or backward thinking they might be. It's like asking for an impartial view of a sports game - you don't ask a fan of the teams involved, you ask a neutral.

To you it's not a superfluous gimmick, and to a lot of people it might not be. To literally everyone aside from me it could not be. That's why I said it's all hypothetical and guess work. We don't know how anything is going to pan out yet. But in my opinion, I don't think the handheld thing is why the system is selling. I think it's selling because it's new, and people have a hankering for a Nintendo system that isn't the Wii U. I don't think it's selling because people are like, "Oh wow I can play Zelda sat on the bus."

Once the initial sales rush is over and we're down to brass tacks and we see what sort of life the system is going to have, then we'll know more. But certainly, I think it's ambitious to say that the hybrid nature of the console is directly responsible for the sales of it. I, personally, think it's incidental to it.

johncalmc

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Ralizah

@johncalmc It's pretty clear it's not just Nintendo hardcores buying it, considering it's continuing to sell like hotcakes month after month. We already know what a system that is only purchased by hardcore Nintendo fans looks like: it's called the Wii U. That demographic has shrunk enough over the years that a console can't be successful just by appealing to those people anymore.

All we have to go by is sales and user data. Anything else is baseless speculation. And, based on the user data so far, people primarily play it as a hybrid. That's the system's big, unique feature.

Either way, time will tell. It's not going to keep selling well for years if the concept isn't resonating with people.

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

johncalmc

@Ralizah As spectacular a failure as the Wii U was (in terms of market-share - it was still profitable), it is an extremely useful measuring stick to use since we know with high certainty that the vast majority of the people who bought one were the hardcore Nintendo crowd since we know that the product confused the casual market. Using that as a rough guideline - it'll never be exact or even close - we can gauge how popular the console is with the casual market. So if the Wii U sold 13 million, and the Switch sells 100 million, we know that it was a massive hit with the casual market. If it sells 15 million then it obviously wasn't.

Once it hits Wii U numbers then it becomes easier to extrapolate estimates of how it's faring, but until then we can pretty much just guess based on what we've got. I certainly don't see, anecdotally of course, much casual interest in the Switch. I mentioned I'd bought one at work and nobody even knew what one was. I'm the only person I know in real life that owns one, and while I'm not exactly the man about town, I do know quite a few people. Literally the only people I've spoken to that own a Switch are on this site and a Nintendo site I occasionally write for.

There's a bunch of variables in play that could help the Switch, too, even if the hybrid nature of the console doesn't directly appeal to people. The concept is certainly easier to grasp than for the Wii U, and the marketing has been much stronger. And once they kill off the 3DS they can amalgamate their handheld and home console games, meaning people who only traditionally buy Nintendo handhelds would be buying the home console too regardless, which would feasibly conflate sales numbers.

johncalmc

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Haruki_NLI

@johncalmc Given your current opinion and being upset how it performs graphically (1080p 60 maximum when docked, like that thing called the PS4 as it happens), I have to wonder what you expected.

You knew this going in. You were told all the features of the system. You knew what it was and the fact something not even an 8th of the size cant match the PS4 is somehow alien to you?

Look man. I said you were being a bit of an idiot buying this thing: This is exactly why. Because its not actually what you want.

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johncalmc

@BLP_Software

"Given your current opinion and being upset how it performs graphically (1080p 60 maximum when docked, like that thing called the PS4 as it happens), I have to wonder what you expected."

johncalmc wrote:

Still, other than the graphical heft of the system being pretty lame, I'm actually fairly impressed with the hardware.

johncalmc wrote:

I knew what I was getting into when I bought it

"You knew this going in."

johncalmc wrote:

I knew what I was getting into when I bought it

"Look man. I said you were being a bit of an idiot buying this thing: This is exactly why. Because its not actually what you want."

johncalmc wrote:

I knew what I was getting into when I bought it, and so as long as you go in with realistic expectations for what you'll get out of a Nintendo system these days I think you're fine.

johncalmc wrote:

But then I knew when I bought it that this would be my Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon machine, and pretty much anything else I play is a bonus.

"You knew what it was and the fact something not even an 8th of the size cant match the PS4 is somehow alien to you?"

johncalmc wrote:

Untitled

johncalmc

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Wesker

Good that people seem satisfied overall. If I bought one, I would see it as a replacement for my Vita, not to compete with the PS4 under the telly. You never know till you get one though, I guess. Strangely enough I wish it had more casual games so my lady-friend would split the cost. I showed her 1-2 Switch but she was not impressed. So I think I'll get a Switch or an iPad. I wish there was some carry over between Nintendo products. I've got loads of digital games for The Wii and 3DS yet none of them will work on Switch, whereas games I bought 10 years ago on an iPhone will work work on a new iPad, and a lot more besides as long as they've been updated. I know none of this matters because it's Mario and Zelda!!! But those games won't last forever.

Edited on by Wesker

Wesker

johncalmc

@Wesker Nobody was impressed with 1-2-Switch.

It kinda depends on what you want from it really. Like I chucked £400 at it for what I knew would amount to probably a dozen games at best, but I was fine with that. I bought a Vita for one game and I never regretted that decision. If you're okay spending a few hundred quid on a machine that you'll play a few games on then you're golden. But if you don't have the coin/you're more frugal with your money it might pay to wait.

I'm okay with what I spent because I get to play Mario.

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