Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

@Tasuki: Yeah, I also think its important how much they decide to price the online subscription.

The Switch's internal storage is only 32GB but the Legend of Zelda's game is 13.2GB if you plan on downloading the digital version.

I have real concerns about this system. It obviously has close to zero third party support. The launch line-up is abysmal. Online isn't ready. It's going to be six months before Mario hits. At least. The Switch is more expensive than a PS4 or Xbox One and those come with a game (or more than one) and huge libraries and communities you're able to access. You can take the Switch on a bus if you want to though, so that's alright. It doesn't really balance out, does it?

I am interested in picking up the Switch for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that I didn't buy a Wii U. It looks like the Switch will be getting a number of remasters so the library will be larger for me than it would for a current Wii U owner. Secondly, with the portable and home console developers focusing their efforts on one console, the game library should grow at a faster rate than in previous generations.

My concerns are a little petty to be honest - but the issues still resonate with me personally. First of all, I would really like some kind of trophy support. I know it's daft, but it seems like such an easy thing to implement I wouldn't understand it if Nintendo left it out. I enjoy trophy hunting in games I enjoy - There, I said it! Secondly, the power of the console would mean it would still be better to buy 3rd party games on other platforms. This may have an effect on developer support.

I will preorder today most likely with the option to cancel as a when we begin to see the full picture.

@johncalmc: @Shellcore: Like I said, the Switch is a portable WiiU in essence. Its also a bit more powerful when docked to increase the visuals presentation as the screen is most likely going to be much bigger and higher resolution than the 6.2" 720p screen the Switch uses. If you were to blow up the portable image without increasing the visuals, it would look a lot worse.

Yest the console is more expensive than an XB1 or PS4 but look at the price of a brand new 3DS XL, Vita and even the WiiU itself. The Switch isn't that much more than all of these yet combines them all into one console - as well as features from the Wii. Its cheaper than a lot of tablets/smartphones too.

Its possible that the Switch could have a much greater library of games than either of the rivals will. Nintendo have a massive library of games going right back to the 80's. Maybe the games won't all be 'new' and built for the Switch but you could have NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii and WiiU games as well as Gameboy and DS games.

3rd Party support could come in number of ways. I doubt very much that the latest AAA games will be ported to the Switch so don't hold out hope that you will get the same games available, with the same content as the PS4/XB1. They could scale some of this down to fit but more likely, the Switch could get PS3/XB360 era games and some of the 'Arcade/indie' style games from big publishers - like Assassins Creed: Chronicles, Child of Light, Trials etc as well as any 'mobile/tablet' games they may have. Minecraft is coming for example and maybe some of telltales games and no doubt Lego games will be on Switch as well as PS4/XB1 but I can't see games like Mass Effect, Call of Duty, Battlefield etc (at least not like they will be on PS4/XB1). Fifa is coming but I doubt it will be as extensive or visually impressive as the other console version will be but then you can play this on the bus or with friends anywhere - not just sat at home in front of a TV. With the touchscreen, the motion controllers and IR camera (not sure if the switch has a built in camera which could be used for games like Pokemon Go), this could give 3rd Party developers more options. Games they were designing for tablets for example could now come to Nintendo too because of the touchscreen. So you may not get RDR2, Cyberpunk, Assassins Creed 7 (whatever they decide to call it) or whatever big AAA franchise you are looking forward to because of the power limitations of the Switch but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Switch can't or won't be getting any 3rd Party support. Chances are though that if you own a PS4 (especially Pro) or XB1 (or the upcoming Scorpio) you aren't going to buy many of the 3rd Party games if they also released on Switch - unless you spend more time gaming away from a TV. Would you buy Skyrim if you only game at home? I doubt it if you own the other consoles - even if you only have a 1080p TV, chances are it won't match the others visually and will be cheaper too on disc to cartridge. Not saying it will be ugly but I doubt it will look as sharp and may not offer the same draw distances or as high quality visual settings - like shadows, lighting etc either - of course we will see exactly when it releases but I wouldn't be surprised if its a 720p game on Switch. If Zelda, a game that looks far less complex, more 'empty' and less detailed visually (I know its the artstyle) can only manage 900p, I would be surprised if the 'remastered' Skyrim can manage more than 720p. Of course resolution is not a major part of gaming but given the choice, I think most people would buy the game on the platform that looks the best (if everything else was equal - like frame rates, social aspects, no need for portability etc). I have a PS4 Pro and XB1s and at the moment, I am far more likely to buy Single Player games on the PS4 Pro - online games other factors come into play like friends/family etc but SP its generally down to which looks and plays the best as everything else is the same.

What the Switch offers is a WiiU portable, a tablet/mobile gaming platform, an enhanced WiiU home console and Wii style controller options (as well as standard inputs) - it essentially combines a Vita, a Wii and WiiU into one versatile and relatively small package. Yes it is expensive compared to the other consoles but its more versatile even if it can't match up in terms of power and unlikely to get the big AAA 3rd party new releases - at least not to the same standards.

It doesn't appeal to me because I always game at home in front of my 4k HDR TV and its too expensive to buy for the few exclusives that appeal. I don't own a Wii so even if I wanted Zelda, I am not paying £280 for the console as well as £60 for the game. I am not buying a WiiU and paying £40 for it either...

@BAMozzy: But my concern, primarily, is that the Switch will struggle because the versatility of the system won't be appealing to enough people. They've sacrificed power for the sake of portability, which means third party support will, as a consequence, suffer. The only way they'll get strong third party support is if they sell enough units, and that means they're going to need a killer app. It doesn't look like they have one.

I'm just looking at this thing and I'm really expecting it to struggle. I don't think enough people will see the benefits. A Switch for £280, an extra controller for £70 and a game for £50. Online subscription if you're so inclined for whatever that costs. As a second console it's a pricey investment for what will probably only play a handful of games a year, and if you can only afford one console then either the PS4 or Xbox One will be cheaper and give you a lot more bang for your buck.

It's a seriously tough sell.

The Switch, despite being a great piece of hardware, it is (last?) statement that Nintendo is not able to understand from its own mistakes.

It is essentially a powerful portable device marketed as a home console able to follow you. Instead of being cheaper than home consoles like Ps4 and Xbox, it is even more expensive, thanks to the Nintendo "gimmickism" of the controllers. Admittedly very interesting devices, but pack with technology that, I am pretty sure, we will never see fully implemented by the developers.
It is also an "adult" looking console that doesn't know where it should aim. A PSVita merged with Wii with lot of casual games (again...) that is also a Ps4 wannabe.....

Online gaming policy is a total mess and yet another astonishing Pr failure. Just saying that the service won't be free, that will use a smartphone app (for doing what, exactly?) and that in exchange users will receive a NES game monthly trial, without a work about the purchases linked to user account, it was a stupid, idiotic marketing move.

Price is also very high. With the same amount of money I can almost buy a ps4 AND a 3ds. Accessories prices is an authorize heist...

This leave us with the lineup. Probably the most awful, poor, sad launch-lineup I have ever seen in my life. Biggest game, Zelda, will be cheaper on WiiU the same day. 12Switch should be a demo packed in the system. The rest is casual/kid games available on every other platform. Rest of the year is grim. Few good titles spread in too many months. WiiU software development has been halted in 2015, devs for 3ds and wiiU have been put together to produce what? this? really?

3rd party situation is worst than my worst nightmares..... practically is not existing at the moment.

To cut this short, IMHO this will be the last Nintendo console. And will be a 100% Nintendo fault.

Mobile gaming has seen the biggest growth. I may not appeal to the so-called 'hardcore' gamer (whatever that means) but like the Wii could appeal to sectors that normally wouldn't be interested in a 'Home' console specifically. There are of course a number of gamers that have a nostalgic attachment to Nintendo, grew up with a NES/SNES and progressed all the way through to a Wii (maybe not the WiiU) and the Switch could easily offer its back catalogue including all the handheld games too.

Lets not forget that Nintendo dominate in terms of sales for handhelds. Pricing is quite steep compared to a 3DS XL at around £100 more but its also a lot more powerful and versatile. Not only can it offer the WiiU experience on the go, it could also offer the same experience, only enhanced for Switch. The next Pokemon release (whatever colours they are) could be coming to the Switch or maybe they will offer the current ones as a downloadable purchase. For 3rd Party developers, they could bring their mobile/tablet games to the Switch, along with maybe a number of older games that never released on Nintendo before. Maybe some don't want to be tied to a TV to game - those that commute and use their mobile/tablet for example.

Some may say that Zelda is a 'killer' app and whilst the line-up is pretty poor for 'new' releases, it could still launch with a lot of 'old' releases - at least access to these. I believe it will have a 'virtual NES/SNES' and be able to play these games on the go or connected to a TV. The controllers are expensive but they are also a combination of a traditional controller as well as have similar functionality to a Wii-mote. This also allows Nintendo to offer Wii games - an updated Wii Sports? You can't deny that the Wii appealed to a lot of people you wouldn't have expected to buy a console - even my Ex-wife and Daughters liked the Wii and they would say they hate gaming.

I am not trying to say that Nintendo are 'great' or right to release the Switch at this price point or with the specs they are - just playing Devils Advocate a bit. When the Wii launched I was sceptical too because I thought it lacked the power to compete, looked more gimmicky and even the games seemed very basic and childlike to appeal to 'gamers'. Lets be honest Wii Sports Tennis was not a patch on Top Spin or Virtua Tennis visually with its weird looking avatar players and very basic courts but even grannies and non-gamers could play it. The Switch can offer this too although I can't see looking at a 6.2" display would work as well if you wanted to play outside in the garden with it on garden table for example.

Time will tell if Nintendo were right/wrong over the Switch. Its still a portable WiiU and when docked an upgrade over that console too. The WiiU isn't cheap either and that has less versatility but screens aren't cheap - probably the most expensive component in the Switch and WiiU controller. How much does a new WiiU gamepad cost and that doesn't come with a built in WiiU like the Switch does!

Preordered with Zelda today. I skipped the Wii U and want to celebrate what could be Nintendo's last console...unless no more software is announced/trophy support discounted/online plans awful, in which case will cancel.

I want the choice to own this though, as refuse to pay out to scalpers to get the system. I remember the Wii shortage. Dark days.

@Shellcore: ''no more software is announced/trophy support discounted/online plans awful''

Didn't that already happen?

@KratosMD: Hopefully, they should've done that last week though.

Preordered one along with Zelda and Bomberman. Havent ha a Nintendo console in almost 20 years so even with its obvious flaws I'm super excited about it!

@Octane: I believe (hope) there's more to come : )

@redd214: I may join you, although I am certain switch will flop - Bomberman, D5 on the move and Mario for Xmas are pretty exciting. The fact Mario sunshine and fingers crossed F Zero GX will be making an appearance make the switch all the more more alluring. Hopefully the snes games make the transition such as Earthbound and the original Mario Kart and then you have 7 beasting games to play.

But, will I use it outside of a few sessions? Hmmmmm.

@themcnoisy: Yeah I definitely don't think it's gonna set the world on fire and may be nintendos last shot. But I grew up with Nintendo, and haven't had a system from them in 20 years. I have 2 boys so this seems to be a good solution for them and for me to revisit some franchises from my childhood.

@themcnoisy: Whilst I can't see it selling too many more units than the WiiU, like the Wii though, it could go on to sell a lot more to the non-gamers. I don't want to say Hardcore/casual markets but I am referring to those that wouldn't necessarily buy or get much use from a PS4/XB1 console. The Wii for example, on paper at least, was not expected to sell by gamers because it was weak (compared to the alternatives) and came with 'gimmicky' controls and appeared to have very little to offer 3rd party developers and certainly wouldn't be the 'best' place to play games like CoD, Fifa etc. However it captured a whole group of people who really wouldn't be considered 'gamers'. They same conversations we are having now about the Switch, we had with both the Wii and WiiU. The WiiU may not have sold well by comparison to its competition but the Wii is still the best selling home console - which sold as much as the XB360 (or PS3) and WiiU combined - more than both the PS4 and XB1s have managed combined. We don't know what Nintendo classify as a success either, how many units they are targeting.

Before the launch of the XB1 and PS4, I bet MS would be very happy to take the sales figures of the XB1 which sold faster than the XB360. Of course the PS4 makes the XB1 sales figures seem 'poor' but its still better than its predecessor. If Nintendo are aiming for say 20m Units and it sells 25m units, that could be seen as a failure because it failed to beat the PS4/XB1 but to Nintendo, that could be a success. No doubt these companies though have an idea of how many consoles they want/need to sell each month and as long as they hit or exceed that, its successful - maybe not as successful as one of the competition alternatives on a global sales chart. Its not that different from Games or Movies. Is this years CoD a failure to Activision? I very much doubt it! Even with the high profile stars, expensive advertising etc, I bet they made all their money back in the opening week and now every copy sold is pure profit. Maybe it won't end up as profitable as BO3 but more profitable than any other game this year. Its like comparing FFxv to say Witcher 3. The Witcher 3 had sold nearly 10m copies by March 2016 (wiki) and had made $62.5mUSD profit. FFxv needs to sell 10m before it can start making any profit - thanks to the 10year develoment and costs involved. If FFxv only sells 10.5m and the Witcher 3 sells 10m, which is seen as more successful, the one that sells more or the one that makes a massive profit? In film terms, we see big money blockbusters considered a failure because they don't recoup their money but on the other hand, some low budget movies are successful because they make a profit but cannot match the box office sales of the Blockbuster - not even close. I am not saying the Nintendo is a 'budget' console or skimped on the R&D etc costs but we don't know how many consoles they would need to sell to be profitable and therefore successful. Sales figures alone do not determine success or failure. If both the Witcher 3 and FFxv only sells 9m, the Witcher 3 is a massive success to CD Project Red but FFxv will be a failure to Square Enix as they spent more on its development than the money they got back - they would lose money!

The Switch may not reach the sales figures of the XB1 let alone the PS4 but it could still be a success and profitable for Nintendo and keep them in the market place. It could also ed up selling a LOT more than the WiiU as Mobile gaming has seen a big growth over the past few years and Nintendo could offer a lot of 3rd Party support for mobile/tablet games - maybe some of these will be best played in handheld mode - like fruit ninja and using the Touchscreen but could be played in Tabletop mode using the motion controls or in console mode again using motion controls or standard format which may be the worst way to play. Point is it could still capture a segment of the market that the PS4/XB1 really don't cater to as much.

@BAMozzy: In the case of the word flop - right now I mean for me.

I was living on a trickle of games every few months on my beloved GameCube (which seemingly was better supported than wii u) whereas PS2 and Xbox had a stampede. I can see that trend continuing with switch. Which is why I can see switch flopping from a hobbyist gamers point of view. If Nintendo makes money is inconsequential as I don't have shares in the company. Wherever or not Joan down the road can be wowed by this device again doesn't bother me as the wii did nothing to expand my gaming horizons outside of wii bowling.

But as a secondary console to play Disgaea and Mario on, then sure I can do that. But the lack of memory and expensive accessories really really put me off. Am I willing to pay £400 when I've already got D5 on ps4 and Ratchet and Clank in uhd with crash on the way? I dont know.

Are you buying one?

@themcnoisy: I am not buying one at all - at least not based on the information and line-up so far. I don't game on the go and the last handheld I bought, the DSi, was nothing more than a dust collector so my Son ended up with it when his DSi broke. I already have a PS4 Pro and XB1s connected to a 4k HDR screen - yes the screen is important to mention as games are likely to be in the 720-1080p range and without HDR too so will need to be upscaled by at least 400% and Zelda at 900p would need to be upscaled by 600%. Personally I would rather buy an iPad or something similar if I was out and about. Games may not be as impressive but it offers more variety, like internet browsing, music/video (inc SkyQ content I have recorded) as well as games that I could play for free or at least very little outlay for the few times I am stuck waiting at the doctors or hospital when maybe I can't use wifi.

None of the Switches line-up appeals to me. Zelda doesn't look that different from some indie/arcade Zelda clone with some nice looking but very barren and empty areas. It looks very old school with no actual dialogue, just text based and missing a number of things I associate with Zelda, like digging or cutting grass for rupees - even staples like Zeldas Sword/Shield only have a set life and can break leaving Link without his iconic gear. Mario doesn't look like its evolved either from SM64 that much. The hat now has more significance in that it can be used as weaponry or a makeshift platform but it seems its still 'hub' worlds with the same basic premise of rescue Peach from Bowser and probably need to collect enough Stars to access the next hub world to collect more stars etc until you have enough stars to access the boss fight and save Peach from marrying Bowser. Even the New York inspired Hub looks small - you get a view of its size during the trailer when Mario jumps off the building. I loved SM64 because it innovated and changed the gaming landscape. It made 3D worlds a reality and gave us analogue movement - something no game had offered. I was bored of SMbros by then so the jump to 3D was incredible. by the time the second Mario Galaxy came out, I had lost interest in the 3D platformer and moved on to 3D worlds with epic stories and great characters. Given the choice between Mario Odyssey and RDR2 or Last of Us 2 - absolutely NO contest. I loved the old Gameboy Zeldas and Ocarina of Time was one of the best games of all time but now I would much rather get lost in the world of Horizon:ZD or transported to worlds of Mass Effect: Andromeda - blown away by the HDR 4k visuals they offer as well as the story, the characters etc - and these will cost me less for that privilege.

I know I have played a bit of Devils Advocate and spoken of how it could be a success, why the pricing isn't that high despite costing more than a PS4/XB1s but for me personally, I cannot see me getting much use out of it at this stage. I don't game on the toilet, have an original XB1, XB360, PS3 and standard PS4 in the bedroom and like I said I have a PS4 Pro and XB1s in the front room as well as both a Gold and PS+ subscription without adding another subscription into the mix. I don't miss NES/SNES games or any of Nintendo's other console games that could come to the Switch. Yes some f these were the best games of that era and part of my gaming life but I have no interest in playing Pong, Asteroids, Space Invaders, Pac Man, Jet Set Willy (I know not Nintendo games but still part of my life growing up and very important at that time), Super Mario Bros, Mario Kart or Diddy Kong Racing, SM64, DK64, SM Sunshine, Zelda OoT or Majoras Mask, Mystical Ninja Goemon, Wii Sports, DK country etc etc etc again and ruin the memory of that time and place I experienced these first time around.

However that is where I am at but I can see a lot of people maybe wanting that versatility, wanting a combination of a portable WiiU, Wii and Vita, wanting that nostalgic trip through Nintendo's back catalogue as well as new Zelda, Mario and Pokemon games, Not caring that it can't compete visually with the alternatives or offer the same brand new 3rd Party games because Nintendo do tend to focus more on performance rather than visual fidelity (not to say games loo awful) and more on fun than deep and meaningful story focus.

I doubt that if Nintendo had made a 'console' to challenge the power of PS4 or even the Pro, I would have bought it - not with their line-up. Chances are it could offer more 3rd Party 'new' releases but chances are I would still buy for the Pro or XB1s/Scorpio - unless Nintendo versions offered something 'more' not necessarily a bump in resolution/visuals or mobility (I don't game on the Go) but extra content for example or something uniquely different.

If Sony released an updated Vita with the power of PS4 (or more) I wouldn't buy that either as it wouldn't fit in with how I game.

Watch this everyone. Hilarious mockup of Mario in new donk I mean York city

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih323XXu_3w

Agree with your other points and a lot waits to be seen but you're forgetting this is launch price. PS4 was £350 at launch, controllers were £55 and games were £50. Now you can get them for £250, £35 and £30. Even less than that if you wait/find a good deal.

Wii U didn't drop in price much due to the ridiculous manufacturing costs, the streaming chip needed in the pad etc. I'm sure Nintendo will have designed this in a way to avoid that issue again. Home console prices are always inflated at launch then discounted quickly, and handhelds even more so. Come Christmas 2017 when Mario launches I expect the Switch to be findable for £220 which is a deal that's very hard to turn down, even for a casual/non gamer. In fact if they can get a Mario and Splatoon bundle for around £220-£250 with a Pokemon game out too it's almost a guaranteed smash.