Forums

Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

Posts 1,581 to 1,600 of 7,477

JohnnyShoulder

johncalmc wrote:

I never go anywhere and I never do anything so I pretty much just play games on my PS4, unless they're not on my PS4, and then I'll play them on my Switch.

I think you just might be my doppelgänger lol

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

Rudy_Manchego

@Ralizah I have been looking out for Hyper Light Drifter for Switch as I would happily double dip. The game is amazing. I just don't get why this wasn't in the Nindies video. Sigh.

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

PSN: Rudy_Manchego | Twitter:

BAMozzy

YummyHappyPills wrote:

Gotta say, it helps to remember that if a developer puts in effort, the right games end up not as far below PS4 and Xbox One as people think. That looks better than I thought it would.

This system, while yes not capable of what the PS4 can do, puts up one hell of a showing when developers make the right moves.

Whilst I am not trying to be 'negative' about the Switch, What I have to say though may sound that way.

What you are forgetting though is that these games are half the frame rate of the PS4/XB1 version. That gives the GPU twice as long essentially to render and process the frame enabling the switch to get a bit closer in visuals. Had they gone for the same 60fps, which would have given the Switch just 16.66ms to do everything - inc render that frame, then It doesn't matter what 'moves' the Dev makes, visually the game would not look anywhere near as close to the other consoles - assuming it could even run at 60fps at all.

Some people will want the prettiest games. Some will accept the knock in visual quality for a more convenient experience.

Its not 'just' a knock in visual quality but also a knock in performance, response times etc too. The 'visual' knock is not that 'significant' IF you are looking to play on the go, on the small 720p screen and its not too major if you play on a relatively 'small' HD TV - by relatively small, I am talking about 40" or less at average viewing sistances. However, if you have a big screen - especially 4k, the difference is far more noticeable BUT that's maybe still acceptable if you want the flexibility the Switch offers. Visuals are after all just 1 small part of gamin .

As far as I am concerned, the drop to 30fps though is more impactful than the drop in visual quality. Games like Doom and Wolfenstein in particular are best at 60fps as they are meant to be fast paced and with fast response times. I can see the impact being less on Dark Souls as that was 30fps on last gen - just like the rest of the franchise as are similar games like Bloodborne so it may not feel too different - unless you play the remaster on PS4/XB1 first.

It is impressive though - considering the Switch is around a quarter of the specs of the MS/Sony 2013 consoles.

I don't have access to a TV issues where I may need to get my gaming fix on a handheld, I don't go to bed to game either and want to 'switch off' to sleep. I don't game on the go either so I don't have to 'compromise' my gaming experience to have that flexibility.

As I said, I am not being negative but if you give the console twice as long to produce the next frame, then it can get closer to the more powerful hardware. Devs are able to use that extra time but if the game was already 30fps on XB1/PS4, they may have to make even more sacrifices to visual quality to bring the games to he Switch. The point I am making though is that the reason these games are 'closer' to the other consoles is that the devs decided to half the frame rate to give the Switch more time to render a better quality image.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

themcnoisy

@BAMozzy The reason everyone raves about the switch is in handheld mode its current gen on a handheld and is great, the Vita looks terribad in comparison. The screens nice and big for a handheld and with the detachable joycons isnt restricted, so hand cramps are a thing of the past. It doesnt need to be 4k as the games look good enough anyway.

Im also unsure about lag times. Even at 30fps there always an additional 16ms lag compared to 60fps obviously - but surely thats negated as your playing directly from a tablet as opposed to a screen.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

JohnnyShoulder

In my 200 hours of playing Zelda on the Switch not once did I think about what frame rate it was running at. It is not something I care about or notice too much generally anyway. I think BOTW is a stunning looking game, and I hold artistic design to a higher regard than resolution and frames per second. There is more to gaming than what frame rate and resolution games are running at, and it's something frankly I'm quite bored of hearing about. Unfortunately the industry has got bogged down it's own backside in pixels and frame rates and I don't see no way back. It is good for sites to put up comparison videos and those boring Digital Foundry articles about which version runs 4 frames better, but for some people it holds little or no interest.

/rantover

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

kyleforrester87

Moving between the same game at different fixed frame rates is an uncomfortable experience. Otherwise you get used to it and it's all good.

kyleforrester87

PSN: WigSplitter1987

JohnnyShoulder

Yeah sudden drops in frame rates is not good. I can remember some parts of Old Yharnam in Bloodborne being particularly bad before it was patched.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

BAMozzy

@themcnoisy Of course its the 'best' handheld currently available but that wasn't what the point of what I was saying. The fact of the matter is that the reason games like Doom and Wolfenstein can look reasonable has a lot to do with the Devs opting to go for 30fps instead of trying to keep the game at 60fps. That gives the CPU/GPU twice as long to deliver the next frame and its halving the workload of calculating the physics and AI too. A PS4 could GPU could do 4k - if you don't want the game to be playable - given enough time to render the frame and add all the processing.

I was merely trying to say that the gap is much wider that @YummyHappyPills was indicating. The fact that the Devs have cut the frame rate in half to try and get closer to the base level of the XB1/PS4, given the GPU essentially double the time to produce the image which is why it looks closer. Its going to be a lot more difficult for devs to get 'close' to the visuals if the games were 30fps on both.

It was the comment about some devs not putting in the effort as to why the games aren't as well ported but some of that is down to the fact that the 3 games mentioned have all cut the frame rate in half to give the hardware twice as long to try and produce a similar image quality.

The other aspect was that its not just a 'visual' compromise for gamers but also performance too. Again it wasn't meant to be a criticism of the Switch but merely stating that their is another compromise - frame-rate performance to go with the visual downgrade too. If people want to accept the knock in both visual - which as I said is made less significant by playing on the 'small' 720p screen (720p is relevant as it gets much closer to mapping 1:1 so looks sharper and the small size hides a multitude of issues too) and performance for that 'flexibility' then that is up to them - but its more than just a visual knock as was intimated. I am not criticising and its up to individuals if they are willing to sacrifice visual and/or performance for the benefit of mobility. Its their choice at the end of the day but the drop in frame rate is more significant - especially when playing in portable mode on the small screen.

Its the same as saying the Xbox X is nearly as good as GTX1080Ti PC as it can do native 4k in Far Cry 5 with just a slight downgrade on some visual settings - however there is also the fact that the Xbox has at least twice as long as a 1080Ti to render that frame.

I have never disputed that what Nintendo have built into such a small form factor is impressive and it does a good job for the specs - around a quarter of the specs of a XB1/PS4. its great that its being supported relatively well too. However I still think it was worth pointing out that the reason it could get closer with the visuals was because it has twice as long to produce the next frame and that Devs are not necessarily 'lazy' as to why there are 'bigger' differences, its because they can't give the slower system twice as long to produce the next frame.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

themcnoisy

@BAMozzy Sorry Bam I wrote that earlier just after finishing work and wandered onto the thread while eating my tea lol. I didnt read the previous posts tbh.

That said I dont think switch owners necessarily have big TVs or play on screen much anyway. Thats a sweeping generalization but I think its pretty true. It certainly is used in tablet mode 95% of the time now in my house. So I dont think it matters so much to the wider public.

For me the graphics are worse generally than the PS4 games I have been playing like Horizon and GT Sport for sure. Playing it in the living room the games look rougher round the edges as my TV is 4k and coming off the back of a designed for 4k game then of course Switch cant compete, and it is pretty jarring in that capacity. But for throwing down a lap on MK while at my mum in laws or beating my son at ARMS in the kitchen - theres nothing out there like it.

It would be nice for Nintendo to throw down the stats (like they did last year) on the split of how people play now its been out for a while.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

Ralizah

I don't think anyone was saying that the Switch was able to achieve similar visual results as the PS4 without sacrifices in terms of resolution and especially framerate. Rather, they're pointing out that games, properly optimized, can deliver powerful results on this fairly piddly hardware (for a home console, anyway).

Those sacrifices won't be worth it to some. I've played DOOM on both the PC at 90+ fps (the demo, anyway) and on Switch at 27 - 30fps. Is there a difference? Absolutely. It's still a pretty enjoyable experience in handheld mode, though, and the added gyro controls make the Switch version my preferred version of the game.

Nobody is going to go to Switch expecting superior performance, but it's a great option for those of us who detest being tethered to the TV when we play our games. As far as I'm concerned, its emphasis on versatility makes it a compelling buy alongside a powerful rig. Between a good gaming PC and a Switch, you have the best of both worlds.

@KratosMD I mean, the patches definitely helped stabilize the framerates in certain areas, but I started playing BotW at launch and it was never anywhere close to "unplayable." Just like Bloodborne, The Last Guardian, and any other modern gen games with some framerate fluctuations weren't "unplayable."

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

BAMozzy

@themcnoisy Of course, if the majority of time spent on Switch is undocked, then the visual differences - even for those with big 4k screens - is minimal. That was partly my point as well as to explain why some games may get closer visually too. If you are predominantly playing undocked, you are not sacrificing very much visually but, in the case of these games mentioned, sacrificing much more on performance.

I have no issue with 30fps and the majority of games I do play are 30fps - even on MUCH more powerful hardware than the Switch. Granted I would prefer to play at 60fps (or better) but I am content to play at 30fps. My favourite games and virtually all GOTY winners have been 30fps on console so I wasn't being negative about the drop in frame rate either - just merely stating that the biggest sacrifice that people are making is not necessarily visual but in performance - especially if the majority of their gaming is spent in handheld mode. It wasn't meant as a criticism - as I stated but to explain why these games in particular can look really good considering the hardware difference.

Regardless, at least the current situation with the Switch and third party support is better than the WiiU. Its still the best handheld console on the market.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

Tasuki

I honestly don't understand people's obsession with graphics. For me the game can have the wrost graphics ever but as long as it's fun I will enjoy it. Take Atari games for example some of those games I can play for hours over and over yet something like Uncharted for example I just find dull and boring. I mean we didn't argue about graphics during the NES era either. Somewhere along the lines people forgot that games are suppose to be fun but.

Maybe I am missing something but as I said it just don't make sense to me.

Edited on by Tasuki

RetiredPush Square Moderator and all around retro gamer.

My Backlog

PSN: Tasuki3711

themcnoisy

@Tasuki exactly as @KratosMD mentioned. Its like in the 80s my mum would watch a black and white film and I had zero interest. Even now I just flick through those films. If your used to a certain fidelity its hard to go back.


On another point I watched a brilliant documentary Nintendo Quest about a gamer with 30 days to get the whole NTSC set if games without using the internet. Has anyone seen that?

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

BAMozzy

I first started gaming in the 70's with Pong - which as anyone knows was just black and white and the 'ball' was quite a big 'square - because it was just a 'pixel'. I have always though admired and been impressed by 'graphics' and the advancement of the technology. Graphics used to play a lot more of a fundamental role in scoring games too and its 'graphics' that are our first look at any game - whether that was screenshots in magazines or the back of the box to video's/trailers on websites long before we even get a sense of the game, how it plays and its performance. First impressions count.

What was acceptable 10yrs ago wouldn't be acceptable today - you buy a Pro/X for even better resolutions and visual quality and don't expect PS2 era graphics - regardless of well the game plays. There as been a lot of controversy too over things like visual downgrades from the initial reveal to the final release and a game like Mass Effect: Andromeda was heavily criticised for some poor facial animations but apart from that, still looked good by 10yr old standards and some of the environments are great - even by todays standards.

People didn't just buy a PS4/XB1 for the very few games that were 'only' available on next gen systems but for the better visuals. Most of the launch games were available on both and in the first few years, a lot of the games were available on both systems. The biggest selling games were available on both generations and a lot of games this gen are last gen games with 'better' visuals - that's games like Skyrim and Dark Souls too.

Whilst a poor game with good visuals is not better than a good game with poor visuals, you can't deny how important a good game with good visuals is either. Games can be significantly enhanced by good visuals and audio. Its why Photo modes are also becoming more widespread too.

I am not saying visuals are the most important but they are a contributing factor to a games experience...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

KALofKRYPTON

Right then Switch folk.

Rocket League on Switch; how does it compare to PS4, what's the experience like with just joycons, a joined joycons, pro/other controller options??

Sound off!

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

Haruki_NLI

@KALofKRYPTON Previously it was 720p both modes going as low as 576p due to dynamic resolution to maintain 60fps. Now however it is:

Performance Mode (60fps)
Docked: Optimized for 60fps/900p, can scale down to 60fps/720p
Handheld: Optimized for 60fps/720p, can scale down to 60fps/576p

Quality Mode (30fps)
Docked: 30fps/1080p
Handheld: 30fps/720p
Quality Mode also enables several graphics features automatically, including Lens Flares, Light Shafts, Dynamic Shadows and Depth of Field

Regarding content, its up to date I believe with numerous DLCs, has the lootcrate system implemented with keys purchasable. Also has the most recent update featuring Tournaments.

Regarding controllers, any set up works really.

It has to be noted this is made in an engine that isn't officially supported by the engine creator anymore, as such Switch support isn't native. So what we have is likely to be as good as it gets unless Panic Button continues to work wonders.

Now for direct comparisons to PS4, as much as I hate comparing as it doesn't tell you much about what one thing has, rather what it HASN'T, there is two things.

PS4 runs at 1080p/60fps (I hope) however to play online you need to pay £50 per annum (I think, unless RL is exempt) and can play with players on PC (I believe).

The Switch version is 900p-dynamic/720p dynamic at 60fps or 1080p/720p at 30fps with effects enabled. However to play online you will need to pay £20 per annum as of September 2018 (Date TBA). However you can play not just with PC players, but Xbox players.

Your call.

Now Playing: Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Crash Bandicoot 4

Now Streaming: Sonic Lost World, Just Cause 3

NLI Discord: https://bit.ly/2IoFIvj

Twitch: https://bit.ly/2wcA7E4

KALofKRYPTON

@YummyHappyPills

Thanks for that.
I'm more interested in how the thing feels in play. I have the PS4 version and have had since release and really enjoy it.

My daughter asked to play over the last couple of weeks and really enjoyed it. I've got her a Switch for her birthday in a couple of weeks and wondered whether the experience would be similar enough to the PS4 version.

How is the set up using just one joycon for control?

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

johncalmc

@KALofKRYPTON I only played it once. It seems largely the same, although I haven't played the PS4 version for ages. Unless you're playing with JoyCons, in which case it's what I imagine it would be like for Andre the Giant to play Rocket League on a normal console. In terms of just playing the game, though, it just felt the same to me. It certainly doesn't appear to have been dumbed down or anything. If you're planning on playing online then chat will obviously be an issue, since Switch's voice chat situation is garbage town, but if you're playing offline then I think it'll be a good option to play it on Switch.

johncalmc

Twitter:

Ralizah

@KALofKRYPTON I don't think the experience is substantially better or worse with the joycons on Rocket League than on anything else. It largely depends on how you feel about them more generally.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

KALofKRYPTON

@johncalmc @Ralizah

Thanks both.

I'll get if from the eShop for her once I've sorted the account and inevitable update stuff.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

Please login or sign up to reply to this topic