Topic: 'Next' step for consoles - a discussion...

@BAMozzy

Yes, not always about graphics. You don't play Minecraft for the story, do you? Also, I said gaming is a visual medium first and foremost, not purely. There's a difference and hard to argue that it is a visual medium, well, it is (try playing Minecraft with your TV switched off). Graphics is a bit of a catch-all term for anything visual, so you can have 'poor' graphics but still achieve good results with story-telling, gameplay etc. You can have good graphics and poor on both other fronts. I think in ME's case what is jarring is that everything's meant to be good (graphics, story, gameplay) and yet animations are so botched that you (may) struggle to enjoy the rest. I wouldn't mind them doing visual skits like you see in anime games, for example, if it fit the context (which it wouldn't) but if you are giving me full animations do it properly. I want to be convinced by the story, one way or another, they chose to deliver it in that way and did not do a good job of it, unarguably. I think that's why people flipped out about it and they should have.

I don't expect the graphics to dazzle me every time, I still enjoy sprite-based games, even old-school rpg's, which used what they had very well to deliver the story. It's when there's a mismatch that it becomes jarring. First impressions or not have nothing to do with any of it, at least not in my personal case.

@finalstan I am playing Devils Advocate a bit here as I do agree to a degree but I am also aware that much of the issues with something like Mass Effect for example were not that much of an issue on last gen. The way the characters move and eyes jump about were present on the trilogy during conversations. I know there are examples that are 'better' than others in those games too and the worst ones of the latest are highlighted. The point I am making is that is it fair to judge a game because some other raised the bar significantly in recent times. I am not referring to bugs/glitches and little things that can be improved by a patch but more fundamental things like the way a character is animated? If I want to get technical, Horizon:ZD has quite a few occasions where clipping issues occur - hair disappearing into clothing, clothing disappearing into other objects etc. Its not 'great' on lip-synch either compared to Uncharted, sometimes your footsteps appear, sometimes not - we can all be critical but does that really detract that much from the immersion, the story etc - especially when these type of issues, the animation style etc were acceptable 5years ago?

I can understand why a Game may not review as highly due to changing standards. Why a game that may have scored highly 5 yrs ago, may not score as highly today because of improvements - not just to graphics but other aspects like camera, quest lines, menus etc too. Its now expected that side quests are less 'filler' and 'fetch' and more self contained 'story arcs' and deeper than the average quests a few years ago. They are far less - go to a point, pick up, drop off or kill something and return for your reward - although these still exist but often much more involved now, multiple stages with 'story' to flesh out the quest. Things like that make older, more basic quests seem more shallow, more vacuous, more filler for XP.

Like I said, Fallout 4 also suffers a bit because of the Witcher 3 and the fact that visually, its not a 'radical' departure from its previous instalment. It could be Fallout 3 with clunky base building added and a more varied colour palette. Whilst it was 'good' enough for 3 and New Vegas, the animation, visuals etc appeared worse because of a game that came out before it. Maybe if that arrived 6months before the Witcher 3, it wouldn't have seemed quite so 'dated'.

Its not easy to constantly keep pushing the standards over and over and over again - especially with games that have been in development for 5yrs. You could I guess re-work everything (or at least some aspects) when a competitor brings out something that raises the bar a bit. In a number of ways ME:A does expand and change things up from the more narrow and more corridor shooter of the trilogy, the changes to combat and skill sets/classes etc but the Animation hasn't changed that much and now looks worse because of more recent releases - although it was acceptable when the project first started development. In some ways its similar to the reviews we are seeing about Yooka-Laylee, its bigger than Banjo Kazooie, looks visually better too but the camera angles are now an issue as are all the stupid noises for 'dialogue' that were acceptable before.

Scorpio specs are in finally which is great news. Hopefully that's the last upgrade this gen and we will see the PS5 / next box in 2020. Bring on the games!

@themcnoisy I still believe, as I have been saying for a long time, that Sony will release its 'next' generation console a year after Scorpio - Q4 2018. This would be at the PS4's 5th birthday, which I think is around the right time - essentially 18months from now. I know they haven't long released the Pro but that is very much a PS4 with limited capacity to deliver 4k. Yes we know it can do a fantastic job with checkerboard techniques etc but the reality is, its still very much a half way step into 4k. The RAM is limited on what it can offer, CPU is not much of a step up and the GPU is literally two PS4 GPU's bolted together with a few extra features added. All of which means its a great half step towards the next gen but it really isn't built for the 4k generation - a PS4 console for the early 4k TV adopters. It makes sense with HDR to also have game resolutions above 1080p.

Sony are still very rooted in the traditional console structure - a new generation console every 5yrs or so and it makes sense that Sony will want to enter the 4k generation with a 4k capable console - that means having 4k capable RAM and CPU too. A console not tied to the past but one built for the future.

I really don't see MS on that same path though. Whilst I can see virtually all 1st Party games coming to XB1 as well - certainly for the foreseeable future, I can see the Scorpio getting 'software' or at least extras that won't be on the 'inferior' console. Its clear that VR is an area that is not BC to the older console so it stands to reason that these games (or bonus levels etc) will not be playable on the XB1 - therefore there is already an area that is separated. It maybe that the Scorpio will start out as an iterative console and the releases will, in general, show that too. However, the path that MS are on, which will mirror the PC gaming space, eventually we will see games that won't run on the XB1 - at least not to a decent standard, and like an 'old' GPU in a PC, you would need to upgrade to keep playing 'new' games but in upgrading, you don't lose access to your old games. As I have said, I can see a time when games are not listed as XB360, XB1 or XBScorpio but just Xbox and somewhere, like the back of the case, it will say something like Scorpio recommended or Scorpio needed to access all features/content etc. I don't necessarily think that MS will release a true next gen console in the traditional sense as we know them. I expect MS will just release a new upgraded console every 3-4yrs. Consoles like the current XB1 will gradually be phased out. I can see games giving us more choice, more like a PC in the sense that we will be able to adjust the visual settings to run games on various different era of consoles. Maybe not as many as PC's for example but maybe some simple ones like resolution (low res, Medium (checkerboard?), high res), Frame Rate (30fps or 60fps), Visual settings (low, medium or high) and on XB1 you can only pick the lowest settings. Scorpio a combination of high or medium settings and the console after could have all the highest settings. Scorpio for example could have Checkerboad 4k/60fps and medium visual settings or 4k/30 medium settings or low res, 60fps and high visual settings. Eventually some games won't run well enough on the XB1 but you may still get some games that work - like Indie or more 'basic' AAA releases but it won't be essentially replaced like we see with traditional console generations. That could change though if we see some radical change to the technology that effects the continuity for older games or MS may have to have a some custom feature built in to keep old games running. By this I am referring to a major architectural change that affects the old games and maybe needing to build in the older architecture or an emulator. Both the Pro and Scorpio seem unable to do to much with the CPU to keep consistency with the current generation. I can see Sony certainly leaving Jaguar behind in its next console.

@BAMozzy nah can't see a PS5 until at least 2019 at the very earliest. The foothold it's gained is no mean feat why throw it away now? I would put money on 2020 if I could. The next 2 E3s will be all about the games now that switch is less powered and aimed at a different demographic. 2019 they may introduce the PS5. But I reckon 2020. We will have a vr2 in the meantime.

@themcnoisy Its not about throwing away the existing PS4 user base at all. Its about moving forward and keeping that user base invested in Sony. Of course Software is going to help but we are also moving into the 4k generation and the Pro isn't built for that era. The Pro does a great job of giving us a higher resolution experience but its like making a 720p console in an era of 1080p.

As we know, When a 'new' generation console comes out, that doesn't immediately replace the older console. You still get a steady, albeit slowly reducing, release schedule. There is often quite a long crossover phase and if you look at Sony's history, they continued to support and had games released on the older generation for years after the new one was out and I see no reason why this would change next time either. Just because I see a Q4 2018 release, doesn't mean that it will suddenly replace the PS4 and that the life of that console is over. Releasing at the time is more for the Christmas market but generally more for 2019 onwards.

I really can't see 2019 or later myself. If they miss the Q4 2018 window, the likelihood is the next Window is Q4 2019. I can't see them wanting to be seen as the weakest 4k option, not offer 4k gaming, 4k bluray and be behind MS on that front for 2yrs. In the 3-4yrs since the release of the PS4, Sony are not shy about promoting themselves as having the most powerful console on the market. I don't necessarily think that Sony will release primarily because of Scorpio though but because of the Market and move to 4k TV's. The Pro is an intermediate step for early adopters of 4k but by Q4 2018, the number of 4k TV owners will be significant enough that people will want a 4k console, inc the RAM to offer 4k textures etc with 4k bluray too. Sony have built a great console on a budget with the Pro and it does a great job of offering a tangible step-up but I think they will want to have a full 4k console and be the best place to play games. They won't want to play second fiddle to MS and lets be honest, it could affect their 3rd Party deals too where 3rd Party games look and maybe run better on Xbox. Its not just this years holiday releases, but all of 2018, all of 2019 and 10/11months of 2020 games if they don't release a PS5 until then - all on a family of consoles that are more HD than UHD. Its also a LONG time to to have a console limited by the capability of the PS4 - having to have exactly the same content etc. I know Scorpio is in a similar position but I bet MS won't enforce that - the Scorpio can already have extra content like VR extras - something that can't happen with PS4.

Its also about keeping the momentum, being at the forefront, rather than the back-foot. Keeping gamers invested in their platform beyond just the Exclusives. 4 out of 5 people on PS4 haven't bought U4, their best selling exclusive. Inside the top 30 best selling games on PS4, only 3 are exclusive and 2 of those are 'remasters'. Maybe Horizon has climbed into that now but the 4th best selling exclusive was bought by 1 in 20 PS4 owners. Sony may want to ensure that the PS4 owners migrate to PS5 rather than to PC or Scorpio to get 4k because even if they buy a PC for gaming, that plays into MS's hands.

I really can't make a case for prolonging the inevitable PS5 release beyond Q4 2018. Yes I know they have a big user base but maintaining and increasing it as more and more people move into the next generation of displays isn't going to be easy. Of course software will help but that could still end up with them being the place to play 'exclusives' but for the majority of games, play elsewhere. Maybe those people who were considering the Pro, may jump to the Scorpio for 4k gaming and 4k media with Atmos audio and keep their standard PS4 for those exclusives - its not like the Scorpio will be short of games with the XB360 and XB1 games it has in its library.

@BAMozzy But hardly anyone has a 4k TV and even less actually care about it due to the lack of content. 4k will become the standard but I don't think most people care enough right now. If Scorpio comes flying out of the blocks which it may, then maybe Sony will bring PS5 to market in 2018, but that would be suicide and I couldn't envisage it being a massive leap over the pro let alone the Scorpio.

I think the more realistic proposition is for Sony to Push VR and the Pro at much reduced rates (say £275 each with a £500 bundle all in) later this year at Scorpios launch (the Scorpio will launch at between £400-£500) and next year cut the price long term. I get the incremental update philosophy, but Sony need the big wow of each new console release, as an example just look at the shambles of the PS pro so far.

We haven't even had Gran Turismo, TLOU 2, a current gen GT or God of War yet. They are all off the top of my head. There's loads of years left in the PS4.

@themcnoisy 4k TV's have a higher adoption rate than HDTV's did and the number of households with 4k TV's is growing. In a few years, the only 'new' TV is likely to be 4k and whilst you say their isn't much content, virtually all games are made to 4k standards and we are seeing an increase on content from providers like Sky, Virgin and BT as well as Netflix, Amazon etc too. How much more content there will be by Q4 2018, I don't know but its clear that 4k is important otherwise Sony wouldn't have bothered with the Pro and MS wouldn't bother with the Scorpio. They could of just rode out the generation for 5yrs+ and made do with 'up to' 1080p.

I really do not think its suicide to bring out a console after 5yrs and it can offer a tangible upgrade over existing hardware - inc the Pro. Yes a game like Horizon looks stunning using checkerboard techniques to achieve a 2160p image despite only drawing 2x1080p but a lot are no more than 1800p checkerboard (2x900p) and upscaled to 2160p - drawing less than a third of the pixels. Essentially just 1600x1800p instead of the 3200x1800 that a native 1800p would be. Of course it looks 'better' than the PS4 can offer on our 4k screens. Its like the PS4 giving 800x900 instead of the full 1980x1080 whilst the competition offers the full HD, Games like TF2 and U4 are only 1440p - essentially like 720p is to 1080p.

Of course there is more to it than just the number of pixels on screen with the quality of textures, shadows, lighting, draw distances etc all contributing to the overall look. There is also things like frame rate to consider of course.

The PS5 can have that Wow factor - even in 2018. It can offer the full native 4k experience which for a start looks more impressive than 1440p or 1800 checkerboard - especially with 4k textures, improved visual effects, draw distances etc etc. It could offer more in the way of Frame rates too - hitting 60fps more consistently as opposed to 30fps. It can offer a tangible upgrade on Audio and of course the Bluray player in one box as opposed to forcing gamers to buy a dedicated 4k Bluray players - and yes their is more than just a resolution increase here as that also offers HDR and Dolby Atmos audio - things that they don't and can't offer at the moment. I know its not all game related but its still areas that they can focus on to bring a more complete 4k console and tangible upgrade over the Pro let alone the PS4.

So they haven't yet brought some games to their current system yet - I expect GT will not be far away, no idea how far GoW is off either. There is no reason why they can't release some of these on both the PS4 and PS5 though. Why something like the Last of Us 2 can't be a PS5 seller at a full 4k HDR with 60fps, better lighting etc and 4k textures and a 1080/30 on PS4, or checkerboard 2160/30 on Pro. Its not that different from 3rd Party developers releasing PS3 and PS4 games when that console launched. Last of Us came out 4-5months before the PS4 launched and it wasn't that long before we got a PS4 version of that too and could have a similar boost in visual quality and frame rate. I bet that doesn't run at 60fps on PS4 but 'could' on PS5 - God of War could do something similar too.

Some of the shambles with the Pro is because it wasn't powerful enough to make the jump into 4k, didn't come with a 4k Bluray player, didn't offer a decent upgrade on CPU, RAM etc to eliminate the bottlenecking issues - all things they can tackle with the PS5. Even if they do release the PS5 when I think they will, It doesn't force you to upgrade on day 1 and I bet most games will continue to release on PS4 for a year or so - like we saw this gen. A number of the biggest selling games on PS4 were also available on PS3 - GTAv, CoD BO3, AW and Ghosts, Fifa 14, 15, 16, 17, Destiny, Battlefield 4 and Hardline, AC4 etc so I doubt the PS5 will stop any games coming to PS4 as soon as its released. You could argue that there was years left in the PS1, PS2 and PS3 when the 'next' gen launched too. Sony only stopped making the PS2 in Jan 2013 and launched the PS4 later that year and the last releases it had was Fifa/PES 2014 - Fifa released on 3 generations of Playstation consoles!

@BAMozzy and all of that makes sense except;

PS1 - 94
PS2 - 00
PS3 - 06
PS4 - 13

Bringing the PS5 out in 2018 would make it the fastest leap into another generation. How would Japan feel they get PS4 for a paltry 4 years and then the next ones out?Plus it took ages for them to adopt. Sonys reputation would be dragged through the mud over there.

2019 at the absolute earliest in my opinion.

@themcnoisy 2018 would be 5yrs. I know its pushing it for the Japanese Market but Sony could delay the release in Japan - its not like these consoles have a 'global' release date. I am not overly familiar with Japanese market and sales of consoles, 4k TV's etc over there. There is also 'national' pride too - their home grown console is not the 'best', not the most powerful on the market but beaten by MS, their rival so maybe the Japanese will appreciate the fact that Sony once again beats every console on the market.

5yrs though is still 'average' and a number were replaced after 4yrs - Original Xbox and N64 for example. Sony also want to sell their 4k TV's and we know that the sale of one can generate a sale of the other. I am sure Sony could appease the Japanese Market by making a console that compliments their new Sony 4k HDR TV far better than any other device and still offer to support those that may not want to upgrade just yet.

I also didn't mention other areas that could be upgraded - like game streaming/recording etc too, uploading HQ 4k video's direct to youtube, stream, share and capture in 4k.

I think if Sony were to leave it too late, say into 2020, its possible that MS could make a console that out-performs the PS5 - either that year or a year after and we get the reversal of this gen. I can see MS opting to release a console every 3-4yrs, so could always end up building a Sony beater but if Sony were to say release in 2018, they can beat MS knowing that again they have the most powerful console on the market as MS can't release a console for at least 2-3yrs. If Sony released in 2019, then MS could come back in 2020 because the Scorpio is locked to the XB1 generation. I think it would be too early for MS to respond if Sony released the PS5 in 2018 and would always give Sony the upper hand. If MS then come back in 2020, they could make an iterative (PS5 pro) in 2021 for example. If MS don't respond, Sony still have the most powerful console...

The whole point of this thread was for an open 'discussion' and I appreciate having this discussion with you on the subject. Its clear that on this our opinions may differ and it will be interesting to look back on in a year or two to see how far off we are - we can't both be right on this LOL.

PS4 released in Japan in 2014.

'Original Xbox and N64'

Consoles which had lost out compared to Playstation it must be said. Haha yes it will be interesting. If it releases in 2018 I will eat celery.

I was looking to buy a pro these days. If in the end of 2018 we have a new PS I will feel scammed... I don't want to see the console race becoming like PC's or mobile phones.

Honestly I'd not be surprised to see Sony just release a higher spec PS4 Pro to compete with the Scorpio. They've done it once and so far at least it's not "divided the player base" as was feared. No reason they can't do it again. The hardcore gamers will be happy for a new iteration of hardware every 12 months. I'd be happy to trade in my standard Pro and pay the small difference to upgrade again, anyway.

@belmont exactly. I would feel a little scammed myself.

@kyleforrester87 yeah I can see that happening, but I'm unsure how most gamers would take that news and Im hoping Sony will just sit it out and see if VR is going to sell sufficiently before announcing another variation.

Personally, I think that a lot of the current debate hinges on whether 'power' affects console purchases outside of tech enthusiasts - it is the question that the Scorpio will have to answer. In my opinion, while we here might be interested in specs, the bulk of the 50 million who have bought PS4's aren't as concerned about them. The marketing, games and price are what make a console a hit. There are several more years until 4k TV's become a fixture in most peoples houses - full HD has really only just become the standard in most peoples houses.

Consoles need to offer something to consumers. The PS3 and 360 were trounced by a non-HD, low powered console because the Wii offered something to gamers. Sure, that was an aberration in the traditional console iterations (you could say gimmick and I woudn't argue) but it is proof that great sales are not necessarily about CPU and graphical output.

I would personally argue that the Scorpio is impressive technically but unless MS make a huge loss, they are going to have to price high and market well. It needs expensive supporting equipment (good TVs). Plus the games that can take use of the technology will be available on PC also so there people might ask the question, why buy an expensive console that is really just a gaming PC and where I can play the same games as a PC?

Consoles need to have that unique selling point - people need to feel that there is a reason to get a new console. PS4 Pro has been marketed by Sony as a PS4 and they have actually pushed the PS4 Slim harder than the Pro because that is what most of the population are now going to buy. If Sony release a PS4 Pro 2, which they might, it will just be a way of appeasing a minority of players.

Every E3 brings us closer to the next new console. Its not that different from Sony/MS bringing out Slim/Super slim, special custom editions of a console and a year later a new generation arrives. The PS3 Super Slim was released in 2012 and in 2013 we had the PS4. All those people enticed into buying into PS3 at that point must have felt scammed...

The longer into a consoles life, the closer you get to the 'next' one - be it a new redesigned model, an iterative upgrade or a whole new generation. The Pro may well be a more powerful console but its still 'just' a PS4 and no different from a Slim, super-slim etc. Often the benefits of Slims are on Power consumption, noise levels and/or 'space saving' but they don't suddenly reset the generations longevity. At launch, the generation was 3yrs into its cycle and generally cycles don't last much more than 5-6yrs.

The point is though that these companies are after your money - whether you are an existing customer or new customer. They want to keep you invested in their eco-system as well as compete with the competition and entice those from one eco-system into another. Its not that different from Mobile phone companies where every year they bring out something to entice customers new and old to to their new handset. Its not going to happen so fast in the console space but the same principal applies. Whether you upgrade your phone every year or not, these companies want you to buy their Phone. Its similar to the GPU market too with AMD and nVidia. Last year the TitanX released at $1k yet this year a GTX1070 can offer 'better' performance for £400 - does that make those that invested in the TitanX feel 'scammed'.

I still have my 'last' gen consoles and I have NO intention to sell my PS4 Pro when PS5 releases. I won't feel 'scammed' if the PS5 released this year, let alone in 18months time or more. I didn't buy it for 2-3 yrs worth of gaming even if PS5 launches in Q4 2018. As stated, I still expect the PS4 to receive support from developers etc for years into the PS5 generation. Fifa 14 (for example) released on 3 generations of console. It was still sold on PS2 despite the fact we had PS3 and PS4. I doubt we will see the PS4 become obsolete overnight - just because Sony release a PS5 - whenever that maybe. There will always be people buying PS4's, inc Pro's, even after the announcement and subsequent release of the PS5. Sony didn't stop making the PS3 when the PS4 launched and I doubt Sony will cease production of the PS4 when the PS5 launches too.

Its not just about the Display technology, although its still expected that 4k TV's will continue to sell and be in more peoples homes - its got a faster adoption rate than HD - but also the technology that can be used to make a new console to not only meet the display specs, but also a generational leap over the current consoles. Its getting increasingly difficult for developers to port their games to the current generation hardware. Increasingly difficult to reach certain levels of performance and visual quality. I am not just referring to resolution either but even that is no longer 'fixed' with dynamic scaling having to be implemented to try and keep games running at, or close to their target level. Its not as if developers are not making games at 4k but then having to reduce the image quality by cutting resolution down by at least 75%, having to replace all the assets with lower quality assets, then having to scale down shadow quality, scale down lighting, reflections, particles and other effects inc water, draw distances, amount of vegetation, rocks,, Ambient Occlusion, Anisotropic filtering, Aliasing etc etc. Its not just the point at which some objects appear that is reduced but also the quality of those objects too. You could get a low res object pop in at say 30 feet and at 10 feet you get the high res version pop-in - its the same with shadows and lighting etc too - all the distances that these appear are reducing in games on console - just to run on these systems.

Simple fact (okay, not fact but IMO) is MS having a more powerful console alone won't be enough to force Sony to release better hardware. That will only happen if they start losing substantial player numbers to MS. And since Sony have a track record of being the less powerful system with the biggest user base (PS1 and PS2) i can't see them being overly concerned about rushing new hardware to market as they know first hand that it takes more than that to maintain dominance.

If PS5 will even be a thing and we don't just see updates of PSPro my money is on late 2019, unless somehow the Scorpio takes the world by storm and Sony are forced to update sooner. I could see a cheap and chearful PS Pro revision within that time, though...

@kyleforrester87 I have always said that Sony won't be responding to MS if they do opt to release a PS5 in Q4 2018. Its more about the base PS4, what it is capable of offering and the amount of compromising that is necessary to run games smoothly and what they can offer for the foreseeable future.

Is no secret that the base PS4 is built on 2011 technology and whilst the Pro has a bit more modern tech inside it with its GPU, and some features that aren't yet out to the PC market, its still essentially just a PS4 with 2 PS4 GPU's bolted together. It still has the same CPU - just upclocked a bit, same RAM with slightly enhanced bandwidth etc. I saw the Pro as a way to prolong the generation enough to get to the next generation of technology which we are seeing now. A half way step to the new generation of displays etc but you still have to look at the PS4 as indicative of the potential duration of this generation.

In the past, with other generations of console, you can see a 'learning' curve as developers get to grips with the more complex structure of the Console. Over time you see a steady progression of some relatively big improvements - not just visuals but also in scope and size. Of course 1st party developers often can push further than multi-plats because they are building games specifically, optimising their engines specifically towards the hardware they are running on. Using techniques not available to multi-plat developers because of the fact their games are built specifically for that system.

I am not denying that something like Red Dead Redemption can't run on a PS4 or looking further ahead at something like Cyberpunk 2077 but maybe we could see these games at 900p or utilising Dynamic Scaling just to try and maintain a 30fps frame rate. Maybe these games will have 'shorter' draw distances than we saw in the Witcher 3, with textures not loading the higher version until we are much closer to them. Point I am making is that as games grow and evolve, the console is struggling more and more to maintain the same level where as on last generation, we weren't seeing this. In 2-3yrs, the number of say full 1080p games on a base PS4 could be far fewer - yes some may hit 1080p and be classed as 1080p because of Dynamic Scaling but only hit that when looking at the ground or a when your nose is against the wall but for the actual game-play its averaging 900p or less. Its not a 'major' point but it is indicative of the resources being maxed out and a gradual decline in the overall quality of the visual experience to continue to offer the full content of the games. Don't get me wrong as I think the XB1 is in a much more difficult position with less resources to cope with the evolution of games.

Sony are in a position where they have the upper hand so to speak. They know the direction of MS and its specs for the foreseeable future. Like I said though, I still don't think a PS5 would necessarily be a 'response' to it but its arrival could influence some of the decisions that Sony make. For example they may have been considering GDDR5 RAM but now consider HBM2 instead - not the full 12GB but maybe say 8GB which is used for gaming and use 4GB of GDDR5 RAM for the System. Don't quote me on this, its just a 'for example'. They could be looking at more significant GPU gains than they initially were - alternatively, it may not change their plans at all as they already had plans that would suffice their needs and be confident they have something 'special' lined up. Its no secret that even their first party studios want and 'need' more to bring their ideas to full fruition. Not saying they don't look stunning now but we know ND were targeting 1080/60 for Uncharted and had to settle for 30fps and drop the MP down to 900p - but that still can't keep a locked 60fps.

Its not that different when we saw the launch of the PS4. A lot of games still had the same content as the PS3 versions and the only real benefit was a visual upgrade - not just resolution. You could argue that these benefits are minor - same as we hear for the Pro over the base PS4 too but you can't tell me you didn't get any 'Wow' moments in those games from visuals alone. I am not saying Horizon ZD in 4k HDR looks 'bad' either and that I wasn't impressed by Days Gone or God of War on my 1080p display watching youtube video's of these. Hell even aspects of Mass Effect looks great in 4k HDR too but I still see objects pop up when driving and less of them than on the PC version, less detail/texture, ambient occlusion etc too. In a lot of ways it like watching DVD's and yes the content can look great and still tell exactly the same story but then when you jump up to Blurays, you don't really want to go back to DVD's unless you have to. Blurays look fantastic until you watch a 4k HDR version and see things you missed before. 30fps can fell great, feel smooth etc but after 60fps, it does feel less responsive and more clunky. Most gamers I know would say that in most cases, the remastered versions of games look and feel much better. Playing games like the Last of Us and Nathan Drake collection at 1080/60 is better than on the PS3 but the story etc is the same.

18months is still a long time in technology and whilst 2018 may seem too early, its more for 2019 onwards. Sony will want to hit the Christmas window by choice but its not unrealistic to think that say that by march 2019 we could have a PS5 on the market so a November 2018 release makes sense to me. 4k displays aren't new either but have been around for a few years. I bought my first in 2014 and I wouldn't be surprised if they take over as the most common TV in peoples homes - at least as the main TV in the next year or 2 - fueled by rising 4k content and 4k devices. I wonder how many upgraded their TV for a PS4 Pro, SkyQ/Virgin V6/BT4k, Netflix/Amazon etc. I see Sony wanting to have a 'proper' 4k Console sooner rather than later to go with their full 4k HDR TV's - not the equivalent of a 720p device with full HD TV's.

Now this is very interesting news... Maybe not for the near future but for the next gen 4k TV's

MS have shown us what VR headsets and controllers could be used on Scorpio. Both Acer and HP have Dev Kits available now for $300-$330 and MS has also shown us the Motion controllers too.

The specs for the headsets are identical and are as follows:-
Two high-resolution liquid crystal displays at 1440 x 1440
Front hinged display
95 degrees horizontal field of view
Display refresh rate up to 90 Hz (native)
Built-in audio out and microphone support through 3.5mm jack
Single cable with HDMI 2.0 (display) and USB 3.0 (data) for connectivity
Inside-out tracking

The HP version looks like this

The Acer version looks like this

Whilst MS are only talking about PC's at the moment, I bet these will form the basis of Scorpio's VR