Topic: Gaming's pet peeves

@Thrillho Old games, like some of the MegaDrive Sonic cartridges, would play a demo from a mid-game level if you waited around on the title screen. Trailers are one thing (chances are it's the launch trailer or something similar, which you probably checked out on YouTube before buying the game anyway) but showing somebody playing a level you haven't even gotten to yet was potentially frustrating and highly spoilerific.

Especially since, when I then reached the level in question, I would instinctively do exactly what the demo did, meaning there were sometimes alternate routes and / or large chunks of levels that I never explored because I thought I was playing it "the right way".

So I'm kinda with you on this one, yeah.

@KratosMD do you see all the people complaining because Pikachu was male, saying things like "Pikachu is meant to be female" or "Ash's Pikachu isn't male, so get a female voice for it" and the funny thing is, this ISN'T Ash's Pikachu, it's like they forgot Pikachu isn't just the characters name BUT also the name of the actual breed of Pokemon and shock, horror there are both male and female ones

@KratosMD @FullbringIchigo I'm not entirely sure what I was expecting from it - but I thought it looked like a great time!

I do have a care to some extent with the 'hardcore' fan base - it's hard to see something you enjoy so much represented in a way that you don't like (here's looking at you Tyler Hoechlin! ), especially when it becomes very popular (here's looking at you Pokemon Go! #Ingressforlife #stoppedplayingyearsagobutstillannoyed).

@KratosMD I'm (mostly) with you in broad strokes. I can't speak specifically about the Pokémon examples you've used in your post, but I can think of dozens of examples from other franchises with similar arguments. The hardcore gamers, and hardcore fans in general, who make blanket statements condemning things for obscure reasons can be quite frustrating at times.

I'm one of them, though, but I always try to be careful to separate my personal opinions from wider, objective viewpoints. I've met people who refuse to ever play modern Sonic games simply because "his eyes are green, and they should be black, like they were in the classic games" and I just walked away from them; I'll happily debate with people who've actually played modern Sonic games and disliked them, and if green eyes comes up in that conversation, I'll respect it as a reason for that person, but to pre-judge something without having experienced for it yourself is, in my personal view, folly. It's also different from watching a trailer and saying "this doesn't look like it's for me" because these people are actively setting out to criticise and tear down, rather than just avoid and move on.

Take some comfort that, for every hardcore gamer yelling about Pikachu's new look on Twitter, there'll be two-dozen new Pokémon fans lining up with pre-order receipts on release day. I really hope you enjoy the new game this Friday; let us know what you think (in small part because, selfishly, I need an idea for my partner's Christmas present and he's barely touched his Switch all year).

@KratosMD @RogerRoger Monster Hunter fans are pretty pissed at how that movie is looking but I can't blame them.

Eh, I'm going to disagree with all this dumping on "hardcore fans." The money and devotion of hardcore fans are the reason these properties continue to be successful as they are. They're the people who faithfully play every game, watch every movie, read every book on release, engage passionately in fan communities, and, in general, are the people you can rely on to support your product over the long haul. They're the 'base,' and nobody ever succeeds in the long-term by attacking or ignoring the people who passionately love the things they produce. The blue ocean strategy might work in the short term, but they need the hardcore fans if they want their property to be anything other than a flash in the pan.

Obviously, this doesn't mean that the consensus of the "hardcore" crowd can't be wrong, and it also doesn't mean that you should only seek to appeal to them instead of also trying to expand the appeal of a property. But they do matter, and they should, at least to some extent, be catered to.

Here's how I feel: Nintendo/Game Freak/whoever approached this situation in the right way with Pokemon. They knew hardcores would hate Let's Go! and headed off the worst of the backlash by announcing a Pokemon game in 2019 that would appeal directly to that crowd. The base is being catered to, but they still get the opportunity to try and woo the Pokemon Go crowd with these new games in 2018.

Not everyone is going to like the direction Let's Go! is taking, and that's cool. The game in 2019 is meant for them.

@KratosMD Elitism is something I can't stand in general, especially in my hobbies. To me, gaming is so diverse now that there's no real right or wrong way to enjoy the hobby. I've personally seen my share of flame wars about how a game should be, and most of the time I'll just roll my eyes. The aforementioned examples of Pokemon, Sonic and Fire Emblem are pretty bad about this. I'd also add Final Fantasy as well. The heat from the debates of old and new FF fans could melt Antarctica. Being part of the Fighting Game Community, I've also seen the "Should fighting games be accessible?" debate about a thousand times now, and they usually have words like scrub and tryhard thrown around. The snobbish behavior I see from time to time is very dumb, especially since gaming still hasn't gotten the respect film and music has, so why should we be elitists about it?

As you've demonstrated, you can disagree with the direction a game is taking and still be respectful about it. I've had times where I didn't like the changes in a game, yet it's not right for me to take away someone's enjoyment of it, all because I don't enjoy it.

That's about how I feel. I'll be vocal if I feel like something I love has changed for the worse, but I'm not going to be nasty or beat up on people who disagree with me.

This is behavior that any group can exhibit, whether they be long time fans, "hardcore" fans, new fans who prefer the new direction, etc. And it's always off-putting.

@Ralizah I agree but almost every company does that, it's just that sometimes the hardcore crowd is out of control...Take Diablo Immortal. It's clear there is going to be a Diablo 4 but everybody is losing their mind!

@DerMeister Couldn't agree more.

My pet peeve is: when you can't load your save /return to the title screen from the game and have to shut it down and relaunch it in order to do so...JUST GRRRR

My industry pet peeve is: Nintendo getting it away with almost anything. I do like Nintendo games. On a limb, I'd say they are one of the best software developers out there if not THE best. But they are one of the most avid as well, and blatantly so, yet they get away with 1/10 of the fuss any other company gets. (dlc practices/digital delivery/remake pricing/censorship/significant hardware failures and so much more). It's like Disney before people finally understood they are evil.

@Feena Smart companies shouldn't. This is why Fallout Shelter was announced alongside Fallout 4. It was an especially poor decision to hype up some sort of Diablo-related announcement at a convention, only to reveal this mobile game that looks like a reskin of a Chinese mobile RPG. Even worse was the way they handled backlash on-stage, and how journos are talking about angry fans now, which is only going to increase tensions with the hardcore fans.

I'm obviously not saying that this sort of hyperbolic reaction to the announcement of a game not aimed at the hardcore Diablo fans isn't unfortunate, but this is the new normal in the age of social media, and companies that want to avoid alienating long-time fans need to manage their announcements more carefully. Even the mere announcement of a Diablo 4 alongside this would have drastically improved the fan reaction.

@Ralizah They clearly stated there is more Diablo on the way on multiple occasions though...I think it's a bit out of control. It's certainly smarter to do it as Bethesda did with Fallout, but if I must be honest, they seem a big bunch of entitled babies. It's just my opinion/ impression, though.

Hmm I find people can sometimes be insufferable whether hardcore fans of a game or not. Snobbery and elitism is something I strongly dislike in general, and with games just figure that if something makes someone happy and brings them joy then good for them. I'm not going to judge them for it and would like to think that in turn I'm not judged for being, well, a geek.

Being passionate about something isn't bad in and of itself, and we're all here because we love games, which I think is a good thing. However, the toxicity and nastiness in many corners of the internet is very upsetting. If people take it that far, they're not fans, they're zealots. There's too mcuh nastiness in the world and people should be respectful to each other.

Now, relating to me a bit, I love the Legend of Zelda series. I have plushies, CDs, books, T-shirts and almost every game. However, with Breath of the Wild, as much as I appreciate it being a great game on its own merits - and I do like it - I also feel that it betrays much of what I normally love about Zelda games. It would be a shame if I felt that going forward the series might no longer be for me. Is it bad of me to feel that way? Of course not, but then I'm not filled with vitriol and hatred about it either. I can therefore understand why fans of other series would be upset if a game took a direction that wasn't for them. Unfortunately, a lot of people take that to ridiculous extremes, and when they start saying things like "my childhood is ruined" I can't help but roll my eyes.

As for Pokémon, the series has always had a large amount of spinoffs, many of which have been targeted at a young audience, so any ridiculously negative reaction is ignorant of the series' history anyway.

@Feena "More Diablo" could mean anything, especially on the heels of a mobile game announcement.

Anyway, it's best to engage with the world the way it is rather than the way you think it should be. Accusing fans of being "entitled" is only going to make them angry, and it's not going to change the way hardcore fans behave online in general.

The entire announcement and response to backlash was a PR blunder, and they're suffering the consequences now, just like Nintendo did when they announced Metroid Prime: Federation Force. You know what happened as a result? They listened and changed their behavior. They announced a new Metroid Prime after the launch of the Switch. They announced the core Pokemon game close to Let's Go. They learned how to manage announcements in a way that doesn't alienate their fan base. Blizzard is going to need to learn to do the same thing.

@Ralizah I get your point but I am not sure about it. Maybe Diablo 4 (that I have 0 doubts is under development as we are typing) is still not at the point when they want to announce it and they don't want to show just a logo like Nintendo did for Metroid Prime 4. "Hardcore fans" get very angry at companies for announcing games too soon and at the same time for not announcing sequels to their favourite games. So yeah, I guess I don't like that kind of fans too much.

@mookysam people killing each other over video games and all the vitriol is still unbelievable to me to this day.

If fans watch an event like that, only to see a mobile game, then then the reaction is justified. You have to remember, they trusted Blizzard to make good use of their time to watch the event, and then when they see that’s all that’s announced, they’re upset that’s how their time was used. If the hardcore favs aren’t the audience, then don’t make the announcement the focus where only hardcore fans are watching. It’s not about elitism - It’s about telling the wrong people to be excited.

@Jaz007 That is true and I particularly agree about the hardcore gamers not being the right audience and not choosing well the tine/event... and I can understand it. But the toxicity/violence/entitlement is way out of control in this kind of "conversations" between developers and fans.

I've been reminded of two frustrations over the past couple days.

First up, mini-maps. Generally speaking, I love a good mini-map; they're useful in giving you that extra little bit of situational awareness which you wouldn't have in real life, but that's okay because you're playing a game and supposed to be having fun. What annoys me is when a mini-map gives you too much information, to the point where you can pretty much play the game just by staring at the tiny square in the corner, rather than your actual character and environment. Big red dot right around the next corner? Thanks, you've just wiped out any need to think tactically. Collection of small rooms with an objective marker somewhere amongst them? I'll just guide my little arrow through these wireframe cubes, ta.

The Soliton Radar from Metal Gear Solid has a lot to answer for in this regard, although I'd argue that it was a necessary tool for the first couple games, where many camera perspectives were fixed, but in third-person games with free camera movement (like 24: The Game and the new Hitman games) they just become too attractive to basically cheat with.

Nowadays, you tend to be able to turn them off (like the aforementioned Hitman games) but they're on by default and so immediately useful that it's tough not to just instantly re-activate them as soon as you encounter a navigational or tactical challenge.

Secondly and lastly, I'd like to write a letter and send it back in time to the PS2 era, regarding the quest for realistic enemy AI. It was a big trend to boast about your AI on the PS2; many games featured their own cleverly-named AI code, like the E.V.I.L. AI promoted on the back of the GoldenEye: Rogue Agent box. Unfortunately, in a quest to make gameplay interesting or challenging, many developers forgot that "realistic" behaviour actually means "tactical, somewhat predictable and logical" behaviour. It does not mean "be random, completely unpredictable and basically as mad as a box of frogs". The amount of suicidal crazy people I have to fend off when replaying PS2 favourites is almost laughable, and can sometimes break certain levels and / or gameplay mechanics. Sure, it makes each replay unpredictable and keeps you on your toes, but surprisingly that isn't actually fun, y'know.

Being a thoroughly spoiled modern gamer now, I fully swore at my TV/PS4/room last night, as while attempting a no miss run for a Ghost Blade HD trophy, my DS4 died... and the game didn't pause automatically!

@KALofKRYPTON i know people moan about them now but that was something that NEVER happened when controllers were wired

@FullbringIchigo It's very rarely a thing that happens me!

I love a wired controller - the only drawback being possible trippage and resultant damage. Best thing about the OG XBOX was those break away cables!