Topic: Unpopular Gaming Opinions

@Shellcore
Unpopular Gaming Opinion: I'd rather have a Killzone sequel than a HZD one. (Even though I haven't finished Shadow Fall)

@KALofKRYPTON I enjoyed Killzone 3 last gen. Think it was mainly as I played solo motion only with the gun attachment. Also played it co-op split screen which I enjoyed. Heard mixed views on the game in general though from others. Didn't play Shadowfall. I suspect you may be right that it is indeed an unpopular gaming opinion haha.

2 very unpopular opinions:

1.Xeboblade Chronicles (Wii) is one of the worst jrpg ever released in the West. It encompasses everything I don't like about the genre but somehow manages to be so generic I can't even detest it with a passion. It could only be embraced by the jrpg starved Nintendo audience imho.

2. God of War (PS4) is OK. Just finished it and I am ...uuhm... adequately entertained.. It looks very good technically but I can't really say anything else sticks out for me. This is for the (straight white male) players.

I suppose the fact that I'm not totally against cross play counts for this. I wouldn't mind seeing it on PS4 or PS5, but I understand why it's not happening, even if I don't think it would hurt Sony much, if at all.

My whole stance on the entire thing is weird. I wouldn't mind it, but I don't think it's essential, or THAT big a deal, or hate it.

@DerMeister the same, people are blowing it up far too much especially for a service that's not important and not really needed

A bit like Backwards Compatibility

@BAMozzy Backwards compatibility is extremely important and needed. The more time passes the more older games becomes much more interesting and important for me than newer ones. I would rather play for the 90th time an old game that I really love than try a new one that I'm not sure about.

@LuckyLand Its not really 'needed' if you still have your existing hardware. If you already own the games, then you must have already owned a console on which to play these. BC may make it more convenient than connecting two consoles to a TV but its not 'important' or 'necessary' - its desirable at best.

Given the choice of keeping my PS4 and have a more powerful PS5 for the money or sacrifice power on the PS5 to incorporate the necessary hardware to ensure that 'every' game from the PS4 runs as it should, I would rather keep my PS4 and have a much more powerful PS5.

Its not as simple as just allowing the games to run on the much higher spec consoles. Even the 'boost' mode on PS4 which only changes up the clock speed a bit can affect the way games run. On PC, they are built to run on variable hardware and, if you upgrade, you can often find new drivers to ensure your old library continues to run. The OG PS3 built in a PS2 into it so it could offer BC - One of the big reasons it cost so much and why the revision, which removed that, cost a lot less. You could have 'some' games that work on the new hardware but then you will get the situation where some of the games you really really wanted won't work. On XB1, you only get around a quarter of the 360games that work, on 360 you had less than half of the OG Xbox games that would run. Total BC is incredibly difficult and unlikely - unless you want to build in the old gen into the new gen or use some 'emulation' software - which isn't always that successful with every game either.

Its easier to keep your old hardware to ensure you always have access to all your games and if old games is MOST important to you, then it makes even more sense to keep hold of it.

@BAMozzy I still have older hardware and games, but I keep it only because I loved it too much and I just can't give it away because of that (I've kept only my favourite consoles), it is just too inconvenient and annoying to plug them to the tv everytime. Not to mention that I would need adapters to plug them to the tv I have today and the image quality would probably be worse than playing them on the newer consoles anyway.
I love those games, but really it is so annoying setting everything up that I prefer to renounce playing them or use emulators on pc to play them.

@LuckyLand It is not for everyone and a very small percentage actually use BC on XBO (at least it was not paid much attention to it recently). If Microsoft were in Sony's position i doubt very highly they would support BC. Just like couch co-op, they will look at the percentages and phase it out.

I'm so bored by the BC and cross play stories now and I generally ignore them if I see any. Just an excuse for the media and fan boys to bash the PS4 over the head over and over and over and over.

@JohnnyShoulder Well that's absolutely not my case. I have never liked Microsoft consoles, maybe I don't love Sony as much as I loved Nintendo during the GC and Wii days but I have absolutely nothing against Sony either and for sure I don't want to bash the PS4 in favour of a Microsoft console.

@LuckyLand I can understand that 'old' consoles - like the PS2 and older - are difficult to set-up on modern TV's - mostly because they used analogue (Scart for example) and modern TV's are using digital HDMI. The advantage of the PS3 onwards using HDMI is that its totally backwards compatible with later versions so there is no issue witch connecting a PS3 to a 4k HDR TV with HDMI 2.0b or even when we get HDMI2.1. You can even use a HDMI2.1 (48Gbps) cable - a bit of a waste - but it will still work perfectly. In other words, all the consoles with HDMI cables are not going to be an issue with connecting to TV's.

HDMI 2.1 is rated for up to 10k - albeit at 30fps so its likely to be around for a very long time. That means that all HDMI consoles will all be very simple to set-up. You may need a multi-block plug socket and/or HDMI splitters or an Amp with a lot of HDMI inputs if you can't connect all directly to a TV but its not exactly a hassle. If the games are that important and you play regularly enough, then why not keep it set up alongside the more modern consoles?

Backwards Compatibility is difficult enough with just 1 generation - i.e PS3 to PS4 or PS4 to PS5. If you are wanting more than 1 generation - i.e PS1,2,3 and/or 4 on the PS5, things are even more so. Even changing the clock speed on a GPU effects the way some games run. These are optimised to highly that they are built specifically for the parameters of the hardware, the exact timing of the CPU that if they are 'too' fast, things mess up. There are games that it doesn't matter so much - probably those built more generically like multi-plats but unless you build in the old hardware - adding in cost that either increases product price or they can't go as high spec as they wanted to keep it to budget - total BC with every game is unlikely, if not impossible - even with emulation. The XB360 had 'partial' BC with the OG Xbox and the XB1 uses emulation and that is (currently) more limited - as in only a quarter of the games are available compared to around half the OG games on XB360 - still not total though. The most likely games to suffer are those built specifically for that hardware - ie exclusives.

Backwards Compatibility is generally, at least with consoles, only the previous generation and beyond that, you are looking at remasters, remakes or spiritual successors - that or compilations like Rare Replay or Sega Megadrive. Its also 'expensive' to check every 'old' game for any potential issues with the new hardware and to see if they actually work - its easier if you build in the old hardware into the system of course.

Anyway, my point still stands that its not 'necessary' or 'extremely important' as you can still keep your old hardware and still run ALL the games (unless they are online and 'deactivated' or removed in the case of digital and/or you cannot re-download because the servers are turned off - but that would also affect those in BC too). You must have owned the hardware in the first place to run these games so its not as if you cannot play them at all. Its perhaps more convenient and can lead to less 'clutter' under the TV but at least there are alternative methods to play - therefore its not extremely important or needed - more a desirable feature.

@BAMozzy nice read that Bam. I read elsewhere that you can have the same components as a PS1 for under a fiver minus the disc drive. Would it be an option just to throw that in the PS5 case so people can play PS1 games? The PS2 innards are a tad more expensive and need a different disc drive so Im unsure on the practicalities - again minus the drive you can throw that all in the ps5 for under a tenner.

@themcnoisy Theoretically, the 'expected' 4k HDR Bluray player can read CD's, DVD's and standard Blurays so the 'drive' shouldn't be too much of an issue. The actual components themselves may not be expensive but when you have to mount them to a circuit board and ensure that they are adequately cooled, it adds more and more to both the cost and size of the build - more materials needed - not just in the casing but in the heat extraction, the additional circuit board and printing, the components needed to switch circuitry to the older specs etc. Its possible that each 'console' could be built in a single APU - inc flash RAM with the same bandwidth - a whole PS1/2 or even 3 on a chip - 4 would be a bit more difficult with much more RAM as well as requiring a bigger APU for the 8core CPU and 18/36 CU GPU - even if you can drop that down to 7nm. Its 16nm for the PS4 Slim and whilst you won't necessarily need the RAM, HDD or Bluray Player - even the main RAM could well be accessible so you won't need a separate 8GB, you can see how it becomes increasingly expensive and its not 'just' the components but fitting them on to the circuit board, printing that board - which is now larger, the increase in materal cost, the increase in printing cost, the increase in cooling - not just the fans but the heat extraction - having another APU with some 'metal' and thermal paste to extract that heat.

Something that may only cost a tenner in the basic parts can become an extra 100-150 by the time you add all the extra costs - inc shipping/distribution etc by the time it reaches the market. That $400 becomes $500 (or more) and can also limit the specs of the next console too. Given the choice of spending $400 or even $500 on a console and getting a console that $4/500 should get you or getting a $250-400 spec console with an old console inside too, I would rather buy the former - get a $400-500 specced machine and keep my old console.

The Original PS3 built in a PS2 as well and its 'specs' were not better than the XB360 - it had a weaker GPU (albeit slightly), the CPU was slightly better but the 360's was built on the same tech but less complicated, and its RAM was split too. Point is, it was more than double the price and the only area it was 'better' was the added Bluray compared to DVD and that was still sold at a loss. If the PS3 had been 'double' the specs (or more) for double the price, it wouldn't have been such a 'bad' launch - as Soon as they removed the PS2 chipset - it significantly reduced the price and became competitive.

That's if Sony go fully Backwards Compatible - they could of course have 'some' BC with a few games - like we saw on the XB360 for example - although I expect that Sony would add titles post-release to ensure that they run without issue and affecting other aspects. It could eat into their profits - not just here but also PSNow (although some will still subscribe as 'newcomers' to Sony but those long term fans will have little need) and can affect sales of remasters too. We don't know if the Last of Us would have sold as well if you could just play the old one and a game like LOU2 would probably just get a higher native resolution and frame rate but H:ZD was built at 30fps with animations designed around 30fps. Its also 4k - albeit CB so a 'remaster' would still be 4k/30 - with maybe better shadow quality or other visual tweaks. At normal seating distance, the difference between native and chequerboard rendering is barely noticeable. Games like U4 could see more of a difference jumping up from 1440p to 4k - that's assuming you are moving from a Pro to PS5 rather than a base PS4 of course.

Anyway, Boost mode on PS4 doesn't work with all games. That 30% boost to CPU affects the timing of things and that affects the way some games run. Games are optimised for the hardware and some require precise timings based on the timings of the CPU. Its a 'tick rate', how many ticks in a cycle so to speak and if that tick rate is to fast, it has negative effects and messes the timing up. Upgrading a GPU/CPU on PC is different because the games are not optimised for a specific hardware and you also can update drivers etc too. With the Pro's introduction though, this may be beneficial for BC in the long term as devs had to account for more varied hardware. It can also make it more complicated if you were to build in BC - do you build in the base or Pro PS4? if you build in the Pro, then some games won't work properly - even if it can drop half its GPU (boost mode) so you would also need it to reduce down to a standard PS4. Emulation software built into the OS could be more successful as it culd incorporate a base PS4, boosted and full Pro but Emulation isn't always successful with every game and no doubt would mean that you end up with something similar to the X - a steady dribble of games added to the BC list but not 'every' released game will be - especially with licensing issues and closures of studios.

Its still likely to be better to keep hold of your old hardware for complete playability of your older software. Mark Cerny seems more geared to making a break with each new generation. Building a console fully focussed on the future without keeping a foot in the past too. He has stated that a 'new' generation also means a new architecture - specifically for the CPU. Zen may well be similar to Jaguar but its also vastly different in a lot of ways too as well as being multi-threaded. It makes BC - at least 'total' BC extremely unlikely unless they do build it in specifically which will again add to the cost or take away from the potential the console could have had, That's not to say that no games will work at all - but its easier and cheaper for Sony to block old games than to reassess each and every game to ensure they work without any negative impact before allowing them on to the new system.

@LuckyLand I wasn't implying you were bashing Sony, just saying more generally.

Its always the same with areas that the other is 'perceived' to be weak on. Its not exclusive to MS fanboys either as PS fanboys will go on about the strength of their single player exclusive line-up, especially as MS's are also available on MS's Windows 10 PC's. For the first 4yrs of the generation, PS fanboys were constantly berating MS for their 'weak' XB1, the resolution and performance differences as well as for cancelled or 'failed' projects like Scalebound, Kinect and still go on about E3 2013 despite none of the 'negatives' survived more than 6months - the removal of Kinect from bundles saw the last of those contentious issues removed - although they still had that 'hardware' deficit. I know it wasn't one sided during the first few years either with MS fanboys saying the same thing as PS fanboys say now, all that power and 'no games' to play. I know the PS4 had games like Killzone, Knack, the Order etc like the Xbox has games like Sea of Thieves, State of Decay and Forza now as well as the plethora of multi-platform games that most gamers buy more of anyway.

Point is, there is always going to be fanboys who will try and pick on things that the other console doesn't offer or is weak on. Even if they were 'identical' you would still get Fanboys arguing over the controller and exclusives. I know a lot that go on about games like Gravity Rush, Nioh etc but the sales seem to indicate that 'very few' actually played these. Its more 'could' play than actually 'want' to play. I guess its like those XB1 fanboys citing BC or Cross-play but never play the BC or few cross-play games as positives because they 'could' play not because they want to...

Great posts, and I agree with much of them.

I've got a PS2 Slim (via Component), a PS3 Super Slim and a PS4 Pro plugged into the same television all the time. I also have a Nintendo DS Lite, a PSP 3000-Series and an original PS Vita on hand. As such, I currently have access to my entire gaming library.

My fear is that, one day, something's gonna break. No games console lasts forever, no matter how much you look after it. Tracking down brand new PS4s can be tough enough sometimes; I had terrible trouble finding a brand new PS2 Slim back in 2011 when my previous one gave up the ghost, and had a similar experience when it came to getting a new PS3 Super Slim in 2014. I can only imagine the nightmare it'd be now, or a couple years down the line.

I do therefore support backwards compatibility, but only because it'll future-proof my games collection. Otherwise, the day will come when I'm just left with a bunch of cool-looking drinks coasters.

In what part of the world do you live? I think Wal-mart can help you with this one.

@Jaz007 I'm English (can't you tell from my accent?).

We're not so bad, but we've had one or two stock shortages, even via places like Amazon or GAME. When I got my PS4 Pro, I had to order it online via the GAME website and get it delivered to my local store, because the store had none available over the counter. Took a week.

I was more surprised by how quickly new PS3s seemed to vanish. As soon as PS4s were released, PS3s both in-store and online seemed to go from "plentiful" to "mythical" almost overnight.

@RogerRoger 'New' hardware is always going to be difficult to track down especially considering they were discontinued. Knowing a 'good' electronics wizard though may well be your only option in the future for some hardware. Some games cartridges don't last forever - not 'functionally' anyway - especially those with built in batteries that were used to power the storage memory - your saved games. I had a couple that worked but all progress was lost every time you turned it off. Things can happen to discs too so you may have difficulty tracking down a working version of a game that you want. How far back do you go though with BC. I have lost ALL my games from the 80's and a lot from the 90's too. All those games that I typed out and saved on cassette, all those games I bought for my Vic20, CPC464, Amiga, etc. I know have a few Gameboy Color games left after giving some to my kids but I still have a microwave box full of OG Xbox games. My kids had my PS2 (and older) games when my OG PS3 gave up with YLOD so I had to buy a Slim.

Games like Doom (the original), I have thanks to the BFG edition of Doom 3 on my Xbox and 360. I have some of my Sega games thanks to the Megadrive Collection and some of my Rare games - inc when they were Ultima as I had JetPac, Knight Lore, Sabre Wulf etc when they were released on cassette. I don't have any of my Game and Watch handhelds or the desktop games like AstroWars and Pacman but things move on.

From Sony's perspective, you can probably play a LOT of your old games via PSNow - ok so you may need to pay again but you do get to play them on the latest console. They are not 'lost' forever, lost in history and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the games I played are available on PC in some way - if not a clone of it.

At some point though, you have to draw a line. If I was able to keep 'every' game I owned and have them all playable, I would need to have a server in my house with them all stored on. That's over 40yrs of gaming. It seems that the only real BC platform is PC but even that has its limits too.

This has got somewhat off-topic but I still stand by my point that's its a 'desirable' feature but not necessary or important as you can keep your existing hardware. Its unrealistic to expect indefinite BC in my opinion because licences are usually awarded for a set time and for a set console. Even though Goldeneye was on N64, it won't be coming to Switch or mini N64 - not unless Rare and Activision allow it. Some games cannot be authorised either for 'new' hardware because of licence issues but you can play them on the old hardware as they were.

Anyway, we will have to see what Sony does and what, if any BC the PS5 offers. It wouldn't affect my decision to buy at all either way as I will keep my Pro and be buying the PS5 primarily for the future games. If it has BC, bonus but I can play those games anytime I want anyway. I won't be giving up my existing games at all either way. The BC games I play on my XB1 are those that I missed out on during the 360 era and they were free on GwG or games my friends want to play - like BO2 or MW3. The rest of the time I am playing current gen games, trying to get through my backlog before the games like Spider-Man, Tomb Raider and RDR2 launch later this year. I would rather play the new games, have new experiences rather than play games I have already beaten. I would rather watch a brand new movie I haven't seen, read a book I haven't yet read etc than watch old 'favourites' but I still enjoy watching old favourites when their isn't anything 'new' that I want on. The point is though, I still have a lot of 'new' games that I haven't yet finished which take priority over replaying old.