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Topic: The Pushsquare Football (Soccer) Thread

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BAMozzy

Continuous??? 5 mins of stoppage whilst the players surround the ref and argue their point. Its not EVERY Decision that will be challenged either and ONLY those that the team feel the ref got wrong. Watching Football on TV, we often see multiple replays from various viewpoints and clearly see what happened before the ball is back in play, sometimes minutes before so I really can't see how it can increase the stoppage time - if anything its more likely to increase the ball in play time as the players won't all be arguing over these...

Its just an idea to bring the game into the modern era - to ensure that the decisions made are accurate. Maybe the team who make the most incorrect challenges lose 3pts so they don't waste time or just challenges for the sake of it either. Either way I see every week games won and lost because of poor decisons, players surrounding the referee, players trying to con the ref too...

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MadchesterManc

BAMozzy wrote:

Continuous??? 5 mins of stoppage whilst the players surround the ref and argue their point. Its not EVERY Decision that will be challenged either and ONLY those that the team feel the ref got wrong. Watching Football on TV, we often see multiple replays from various viewpoints and clearly see what happened before the ball is back in play, sometimes minutes before so I really can't see how it can increase the stoppage time - if anything its more likely to increase the ball in play time as the players won't all be arguing over these...

Its just an idea to bring the game into the modern era - to ensure that the decisions made are accurate. Maybe the team who make the most incorrect challenges lose 3pts so they don't waste time or just challenges for the sake of it either. Either way I see every week games won and lost because of poor decisons, players surrounding the referee, players trying to con the ref too...

I just don't see it as a good system myself, if anythin it's heavily flawed. There's all manner of ways it could be abused, which is to be expected when adding an element of influence from the teams to what is supposed to be an impartial aspect of the game. The idea of punishing teams with point deductions sounds a little draconian too, plus there's nothing stopping a team losing via a dodgy decision they can't reverse due to running out if challenges. It all just sounds needlessly complex to me, especially when the idea I put forward is relatively simple and would work within the current systems of the game.

It's not that I'm saying the challenge system is wrong or anything like that, it just seems there's better options out there

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Tasuki

Well I am a few days late on this but the Woman's World Cup has started this past weekend. Sadly since I don't get tv I won't be able to watch any of the games but I will be keeping an eye on the scores. Anyone else following it?

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BAMozzy

@MadchesterManc I personally think the challenge system would eliminate all the pushing and surrounding the ref we see in matches. I think teams should have the opportunity to challenge a refs decision IF and only IF they are certain the ref made a mistake. All to often we see games decided by a dubious decision and teams feel 'cheated' out of results. Its one way to eliminate mistakes and to bring more 'order' to the game.
If a team waste their challenges and then lose because they don't have challenges left, that is their own fault. It happens in Tennis too. The point is to 'challenge' IF you are certain a decision is wrong. You don't lose an opportunity to 'challenge' if a successful challenge is made.
Maybe penalise a team for making the most unsuccessful challenges is 'draconian' but It may stop teams from making unnecessary and pointless challenges for time wasting or whatever reason. I prefer to see teams rewarded for having the most challenges left in a similar way to the fair play - maybe even with bonus points.
The point is I think its 'Draconian' that teams are not able to challenge a ref at all. I suppose having a 4th ref who helps out with video replays that can feed the decision directly to the on-pitch ref would be a good way too. If they know that another ref is studying the decisions and seeing replays to help a ref make the right decision it may also stop the arguments etc.
Its not always easy for a ref to see exactly what happened and has to make a quick decision based on what they can see from their viewpoint. If you ever watch Sky's Monday view though you will see at lot of decisions in a lot of Premier League matches that are 'mistakes' - analysed by an ex-ref - Dermot Gallagher. Its not just 1-2 decisions in a game but often 5-6+
Even in this years Champions League - Juventus had a few Penalty claims, Neymar had a goal disallowed which probably should have stood (no way was that intentional) etc. I doubt the 'right' result would have been affected too much by using some form of Technology to help but it may have helped eliminate the mistakes...

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themcnoisy

I think the main problem with football is the play acting and mad antics like rolling around aka Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Robben, Young etc. They go down after a slight touch. If they over act and are running fine five minutes later yellow card - hard to ref but it would sort it out.

@Tasuki yeah the women's world cup, looks like Canada has done a cracking job so far.

@BAMozzy and the Neymar example is why challenges wouldn't work. In my opinion without his hand intentionally or not it wouldn't of gone in. So its handball. He mistimed the head and it hit his hand. That's unintentional but without him screwing it up in the first place it wouldn't of hit his hand. The commentators on itv both disagreed - one saying it should stand and the other saying it shouldn't.
HOWEVER... Ive thought about this alot and the challenge system should be in place for red card offences and off the ball incidents which are missed to give a red card.

Edited on by themcnoisy

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Has anyone enjoyed reviews for the hilariously I'll timed Fifa history film acted by Tim Roth 'United Passions'. Total takings over the weekend were less than a grand in the US. It's been described as unwatchable, cinematic excrement, ham-fisted, but pork-shouldered, bacon-wristed, and sausage-elbowed. I had no idea it had already shown in Europe, I must see it.

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CThrash13

Tasuki wrote:

Well I am a few days late on this but the Woman's World Cup has started this past weekend. Sadly since I don't get tv I won't be able to watch any of the games but I will be keeping an eye on the scores. Anyone else following it?

I watched the entire USA vs. Australia match a couple nights ago, and I've followed a little bit of the rest as well. I'll mostly be keeping up with the United States though. The atmosphere was pretty awesome for our match, and we finished very well after starting slow. I'm excited to see us play Sweden later this week as that one should be very good.

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Tasuki

Thrash13 wrote:

Tasuki wrote:

Well I am a few days late on this but the Woman's World Cup has started this past weekend. Sadly since I don't get tv I won't be able to watch any of the games but I will be keeping an eye on the scores. Anyone else following it?

I watched the entire USA vs. Australia match a couple nights ago, and I've followed a little bit of the rest as well. I'll mostly be keeping up with the United States though. The atmosphere was pretty awesome for our match, and we finished very well after starting slow. I'm excited to see us play Sweden later this week as that one should be very good.

Yeah I saw the highlights since I can't watch the games. They looked good from what I saw.

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get2sammyb

I saw the highlights for the US game and some of the England match. I thought our team did okay against France, but they seemed to be happy with containing the opposition rather than trying to actually win the match. I can't see us beating some of the bigger teams to be honest, but hopefully we can at least get out of the group.

Tasuki

get2sammyb wrote:

I saw the highlights for the US game and some of the England match. I thought our team did okay against France, but they seemed to be happy with containing the opposition rather than trying to actually win the match. I can't see us beating some of the bigger teams to be honest, but hopefully we can at least get out of the group.

Still hurtin, from that England proforma nice last World Cup huh Sammy.

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themcnoisy

With Both the women's world cup and Euro under 21s where do you see us reaching? Worried about the u21s with Stones out we look shaky at the back.

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rastamadeus

themcnoisy wrote:

With Both the women's world cup and Euro under 21s where do you see us reaching? Worried about the u21s with Stones out we look shaky at the back.

I'm no women's football expert (apart from the France left back Laure Boulleau) but from what I've seen England are gonna have a tough game tonight. They've never won a knock-out game before I think but I shall be watching.

Also no U21 expert but I think England have a chance of the last four, no higher though. The lack of Stones is massive - he may be over the park here but I absolutely love him - and Southgate doesn't seem to know what he's doing attack wise. We looked so poor until Ings came on up front.

Generally in any tournament I just watch for the football. I couldn't care less about England. I'm Scouse, not English and all that. I just want my players (Liverpool) to play well.

@BAMozzy I'd like a challenge system in place, I just don't know how it would work. If it ever comes in though it should be done a bit like tennis with Hawkeye. The manager of each team gets a set number but has to call it there and then. If they get the decision right they don't lose their go, if it's wrong they lose it. Problem is football is such an on the go sport even stopping briefly can ruin the game. Plus where do you draw the line? Do we have it for stuff in the box (handball, fouls, offside, etc) or everywhere? Another problem is some clubs and managers will just not want it coming in, Mourinho especially.

Then again, is there anything really wrong with what's working at the moment? When you get to see Neymar absolutely explode with his petulant, pathetic schoolboy sulking at that 'handball' it's pretty funny. Plus it allows fans, players, managers and clubs to carry on their delusions that they're all hated by the people in charge. And let's Mourinho carry on his "outrage" at Luis Garcia's "ghost goal."

Edited on by rastamadeus

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BAMozzy

rastamadeus wrote:

themcnoisy wrote:

With Both the women's world cup and Euro under 21s where do you see us reaching? Worried about the u21s with Stones out we look shaky at the back.

I'm no women's football expert (apart from the France left back Laure Boulleau) but from what I've seen England are gonna have a tough game tonight. They've never won a knock-out game before I think but I shall be watching.

Also no U21 expert but I think England have a chance of the last four, no higher though. The lack of Stones is massive - he may be over the park here but I absolutely love him - and Southgate doesn't seem to know what he's doing attack wise. We looked so poor until Ings came on up front.

Generally in any tournament I just watch for the football. I couldn't care less about England. I'm Scouse, not English and all that. I just want my players (Liverpool) to play well.

@BAMozzy I'd like a challenge system in place, I just don't know how it would work. If it ever comes in though it should be done a bit like tennis with Hawkeye. The manager of each team gets a set number but has to call it there and then. If they get the decision right they don't lose their go, if it's wrong they lose it. Problem is football is such an on the go sport even stopping briefly can ruin the game. Plus where do you draw the line? Do we have it for stuff in the box (handball, fouls, offside, etc) or everywhere? Another problem is some clubs and managers will just not want it coming in, Mourinho especially.

Then again, is there anything really wrong with what's working at the moment? When you get to see Neymar absolutely explode with his petulant, pathetic schoolboy sulking at that 'handball' it's pretty funny. Plus it allows fans, players, managers and clubs to carry on their delusions that they're all hated by the people in charge. And let's Mourinho carry on his "outrage" at Luis Garcia's "ghost goal."

The way I see the challenge system working is only the captain can ask the referee to review something - whether that's a handball in the box or a penalty decision (was it in or outside the box, was it a free kick or dive, was it this person or that person that should be carded - I know some players have been sent off in error - even the wrong player). I know football is an on-the-go sport but these incidents are shown multiple times on the Tele from various angles whilst the team surround the ref and argue the decision. If anything it will stop all that nonsense and allow the game to get on again much quicker. I doubt teams would argue about a corner or some free kick decisions - minor incidents - and I only think a captain can ask for a review.
An alternative is a video ref - someone who watches the match and helps the ref by providing additional information in these incidents. Knowing that they have extra eyes and the benefit of multiple angle replays, it would ensure that decisions are accurate and therefore you wouldn't need the challenges. We already have goal line technology so no more ghost goals or disputes there...

Can is impressing in the midfield for Germany u21's isn't he...

Its looking like a Germany clean sweep with u21's World cup and Womens too...

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themcnoisy

rastamadeus wrote:

themcnoisy wrote:

With Both the women's world cup and Euro under 21s where do you see us reaching? Worried about the u21s with Stones out we look shaky at the back.

I'm no women's football expert (apart from the France left back Laure Boulleau) but from what I've seen England are gonna have a tough game tonight. They've never won a knock-out game before I think but I shall be watching.

Also no U21 expert but I think England have a chance of the last four, no higher though. The lack of Stones is massive - he may be over the park here but I absolutely love him - and Southgate doesn't seem to know what he's doing attack wise. We looked so poor until Ings came on up front.

Generally in any tournament I just watch for the football. I couldn't care less about England. I'm Scouse, not English and all that. I just want my players (Liverpool) to play well.

@BAMozzy I'd like a challenge system in place, I just don't know how it would work. If it ever comes in though it should be done a bit like tennis with Hawkeye. The manager of each team gets a set number but has to call it there and then. If they get the decision right they don't lose their go, if it's wrong they lose it. Problem is football is such an on the go sport even stopping briefly can ruin the game. Plus where do you draw the line? Do we have it for stuff in the box (handball, fouls, offside, etc) or everywhere? Another problem is some clubs and managers will just not want it coming in, Mourinho especially.

Then again, is there anything really wrong with what's working at the moment? When you get to see Neymar absolutely explode with his petulant, pathetic schoolboy sulking at that 'handball' it's pretty funny. Plus it allows fans, players, managers and clubs to carry on their delusions that they're all hated by the people in charge. And let's Mourinho carry on his "outrage" at Luis Garcia's "ghost goal."

Where in Liverpool do you live? I used to live in Tuebrook at uni and work in Maghull I'm an Evertonian but not a crazy fan and dint mind Liverpool doing well. It was great for the City with the 2 champions league runs the place was buzzing. Hope we get a big ground share in the future - a 70,000 seater or something.

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BAMozzy

They discussed a ground share but it wasn't popular,as was a new stadium, so LFC opted to go for the upgrade and regeneration of Anfield

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themcnoisy

BAMozzy wrote:

They discussed a ground share but it wasn't popular,as was a new stadium, so LFC opted to go for the upgrade and regeneration of Anfield

your right and with that Everton will be lucky to be battling mid table for the foreseeable at best.

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rastamadeus

@themcnoisy - I've been in favour of a ground share for years (from Formby myself). I've long thought it would be a fantastic idea, middle of Stanley Park - more or less between both grounds for those who don't know - 75,00-90,00 seater stadium. Constant sell out, great for gigs in the summer too, allow us to have European finals in the city.

Growing up, I was brought into football the old fashioned scouse way - support one but want the other to come second in every competition or win it if we don't. I'm not old enough to have been in the city when we were the best two teams in England but I'd love to have that again. Besides Derby Day I always want Everton to do well as it's for the good of the city.

@BAMozzy - Can looks superb in the middle. Even the much-maligned Markovic has impressed in a couple of Serbia games by playing where he is best, left side of a front three. So annoying that they'll be back in defence next year. Well, until Rodgers is sacked come November 22nd after those away games are all done. God knows who we pissed off in the fixture list department.

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themcnoisy

Everton have got man city, Tottenham and Chelsea in a row then Liverpool, arsenal and man Utd In a row within the first 12 games. Dodgy fixture list this year. At least we will get a good showing on sky.

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rastamadeus

themcnoisy wrote:

Everton have got man city, Tottenham and Chelsea in a row then Liverpool, arsenal and man Utd In a row within the first 12 games. Dodgy fixture list this year. At least we will get a good showing on sky.

Stoke, Arsenal, Man United, Everton, Spurs, Chelsea, Man City - first seven away games. If we're in the top half of the table by the end of play against Man City then I will be amazed.

Seems Firmino is actually really coming to Liverpool. I'm so excited and terrified. We always mess things up so despite a fee and personal terms being agreed plus him saying he'll sign when Copa America is over I don't believe any of it. When he's outside Melwood with a scarf I'll cry with excitement. Wanted us to get him the last three seasons. Him, Danny S and Suarez would have been truly devastating the season before last.

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