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Topic: The Movie Thread

Posts 841 to 860 of 8,866

Octane

I just came back from watching Solo. It gets a 'nope' from me.

Octane

RogerRoger

@mookysam Thanks. They do actually start to inject more of the classic style and tone by the time SPECTRE rolls around, so I'm hoping Craig's finale is another step in that direction. The world has been through a pretty serious couple of decades and entertainment has reflected that, but we were starting to see a softening towards more lighthearted escapism. Something tells me that there's been a bit of a knee-jerk reaction against that in recent years, but Bond has always been "two minutes into the future" so my fingers are tightly crossed.

Yep, besides Bond and Batman, Star Wars and Star Trek are the franchises I tend to obsess over, but that's obviously a big leap from a contemporary spy (well, Moonraker aside). I have, however, been thinking of re-watching the Indiana Jones films; they were born out of Steven Spielberg's desire to direct a Bond film, after all. I love them, but haven't watched them in a good four or five years. In fact, I love any good, lighthearted "Hero McHeroism and the Room Full of Old Things" adventure film, like The Mummy (Brendan Fraser, not Tom Cruise) or National Treasure.

Otherwise, the obvious way to lighten the mood after Bond is to head towards the spoofs; things like Austin Powers, Johnny English and even the Naked Gun films make for fantastic comedy counterparts. It's either that, or turn to the wonders of Netflix and have a browse around for any one-off film that might take my fancy. Last time I did that, I ended up finding Bridge of Spies and had no regrets (not the tone I'm currently looking for, mind).

What about you?

@Octane Sorry to hear that, although I'm not surprised in the slightest. I'll be waiting for the Blu-Ray but, even then, something tells me that I won't be rushing to grab it right away. After the incredible success of Rogue One, I still can't comprehend why Disney's next spin-off was a concept so hideously unoriginal.

If you've got the time, would you mind elaborating slightly on why you didn't like it, specifically?

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Octane

@RogerRoger Hey, I did like Rogue One quite a lot!

I don't think I can pinpoint a specific reason why I didn't like it. I'm also not sure if I liked it more or less than The Last Jedi, because I think both aren't great, but for different reasons.

It's quite cheesy (in the bad way) and predictable, although there's a bit of flip-flopping near the end that makes you question it all, but that part doesn't last more than a few minutes. If they were trying to implement a plot twist, it didn't work for me unfortunately. There's a lot of new locations and new characters in this one, and it feels like they're in a new location every ten minutes. It's too much, it all feels a bit rushed. Characters come and go, there's hardly any sentimental value watching a character die that was only introduced a few minutes before. And, although I'm not too surprised since it's Disney, I felt they were pushing a political agenda a little too much. I bought a ticket to watch a film, not a lesson on cultural and political sociology. The rest is standard fare of what you would expect from a ''Han Solo film'', basically all the things we know about his past, but now on the big screen.

And there's the ending? Cliffhanger, I guess. Not sure what they were going with that, since I don't think a direct sequel has been confirmed, nor do I think it ties very well into the other films...

After seeing Rogue One, I expected more from the spin-offs, this one felt just unnecessary.

I don't look up reviews for films (and games) I'm going to see regardless, but it doesn't surprise me to see that Solo did pretty bad, even for prequel (and TJL) standards.

Octane

stinkyx

@Octane Uh oh, you didn't like Solo? I'm not sure what to expect from this one...of all the new Star Wars movies, this is the only one NOT to make me boil over in anticipation (trailers weren't that great).

How would you rank it compared to the other new Star Wars movies? So far I'd go like this:

  • Rogue One
  • Episode 8 (great movie, but very disappointing at the same time, LOL)
  • Episode 7 (wouldn't be so bad had the sequel delivered better on the plot setups started here)

EDIT : oops, you just kinda ranked the new movies in your last response, haha...

Edited on by stinkyx

Make it a great day!

PSN: tearatherflesh

Octane

@smelly_jr I guess I could add that I think that The Force Awakens was fine, not my favourite, but I like it more than the prequels I think, and definitely more than TLJ and Solo.

I actually liked the first trailer more than the second one. I hoped they were stepping out of their comfort zone, and were doing a cyberpunk-ish Star Wars film, maybe even something neo-noir. I would have loved that I think. The second trailer was definitely more standard Hollywood fare than the first one, so I went in with low expectations.

Octane

Ralizah

Rogue One is definitely the best Disney Star Wars film so far. Great balance of nostalgia with a new 'feel' and execution (unlike certain others films COUGHTHEFORCEAWAKENSCOUGH), an uncompromising and satisfying ending, and a more interesting and likable cast of characters than in the new mainline films.

Octane wrote:

And, although I'm not too surprised since it's Disney, I felt they were pushing a political agenda a little too much. I bought a ticket to watch a film, not a lesson on cultural and political sociology.

Oh goody. That means that we'll get a whole 'nother slew of articles explaining how SW fans are "toxic" once the fan backlash inevitably happens. Again.

I'm not going to see this when it releases, and, judging from the fact that even critics are lukewarm on it, I think I made the right choice.

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

Octane

@Ralizah Luckily I don't have to pay for the tickets, it's always good to know a person or two who work at the cinema!

Octane

Th3solution

@RogerRoger I think you’ll find that the Indiana Jones films haven’t really held up too well, and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is awful. I love anything with Harrison Ford in it, and I give Lucas and Spielberg quite a bit of leeway due to their other ventures, but honestly IJ is pretty cheesy. Maybe I’m spoiled by Uncharted.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

Ralizah

@Th3solution Well, yes, Indiana Jones films are cheesy. And racist. And sexist. etc. etc. Not only are they reasonably old films at this point, but they were a throwback to pulpy adventure serials from the '30's. It's a part of their charm. It helps to inform their particular character.

Here's an unpopular opinion: I don't think Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was all that bad. I think fans reacted poorly to certain plot elements that they would have downplayed the impact of if the film were older and viewed through a more nostalgic lens.

Oh, and to address the comment about Uncharted: even the aliens from KotCS weren't as bad as the zombie-vampire whatevers from Uncharted 1 or the random yeti from Uncharted 2 .

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

mookysam

@RogerRoger I guess one reason I want Bond to be more light-hearted again (bearing in mind I still haven't seen Spectre and won't til it's back on Netflix) is precisely because the world is a pretty grim place. Films that reflect that have their place, of course, and I enjoy a variety of genres, but escapism is nice too. Spoof films are often good fun when you're a fan of the source material. I absolutely loved the Naked Gun films when I was a child, but haven't seen them in years so am not too sure how they hold up nowadays. Austin Powers always makes me chuckle, especially because of how much it rips into the James Bond films.

In terms of favourite series, I especially love Lord of the Rings. Not ashamed to admit my love for Harry Potter either. I'm with you on the Mummy (first two Brendan Fraser ones) and Indiana Jones! I got the Indiana Jones Blu Rays a few years ago and it's probably time to watch them again. Also a big fan of Jurassic Park (less so the third film) and have been since I was young. Me and my brother were obsessed with dinosaurs. Jurassic World is awesome and I'm really looking forward to its sequel. Batman and classic Ghostbusters are on the list of favourites too.

Star Trek was always on in my house growing up because my Dad is a huge fan, so I'm quite fond of that. Likewise with Star Wars. I've been working through the Clone Wars TV series over the past few months.

Black Lives Matter
Trans rights are human rights

RogerRoger

@Octane Thanks for your in-depth thoughts! I, too, loved Rogue One. It gave me hope that the spin-off films would still provide "my" Star Wars whilst the sequels went and did their thing, and rumours of an Obi-Wan tale coming in 2020 (starring Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson, no less) have my inner fanboy jumping up and down with excitement... but everything about Solo, from beginning to end, has just reeked of barrel-scraping when there's absolutely no need to scrape it, at least not yet.

I'm also sorry to hear that there's yet more bungled social commentary from Disney. Please don't get me wrong; I'm pretty darn liberal, but there's a time and a place to get preachy and in the middle of an escapist fantasy film just ain't it. Leave it to Star Trek; it was designed for specifically that purpose. Star Wars wasn't, never has been, and the parallels people have drawn with the original and prequel trilogies, and the animated television shows, have been their own interpretations. When I read that Lando was going to be pansexual and flirt with Han, I literally facepalmed, especially considering his introduction in The Empire Strikes Back being centred around his tunnel-vision efforts to outright seduce Leia. If you wanna have a character represent, fine, make a new one and treat them well; don't force awkward retcons onto characters who should never have been re-cast in the first place.

I don't usually get so judgemental about something I haven't even seen (because I feel that's unfair, and a major cause of the toxicity of online criticism) and I'm sure that there'll be cool moments scattered throughout, because it's ultimately Star Wars, but... well, I already had a bad feeling about this, and your comments have reinforced certain points of view. Thanks again!

@Th3solution I seem to have found an ally in @Ralizah and so my coming here to leap to the defence of Crystal Skull isn't going to be as dramatic as I thought, but it's actually my second-favourite (or at least, was at last viewing; I refuse to say that my opinions will never change) right behind The Last Crusade. My desk even boasts a little Crystal Skull alien sitting on his golden throne, being loomed over by a Japanese figure of the older 1950s Indiana Jones himself.

It was a pitch-perfect time capsule of 1950s America, complete with an obsession with flying saucers and Reds under the bed. Harrison Ford's performance was excellent, and the wider cast full of incredible actors having a blast. Were there some over-the-top moments? Sure, but no more or less over-the-top than half the other stuff we've been asked to enjoy by the franchise before. I saw it at the cinema when it came out with a bunch of mates and we had a great time, all loved it and talked about it in great detail on the way home. It was only a couple weeks later, when they'd been online and tapped into critics and comments, that they started taking chunks out of it.

Then again, I've defended the Star Wars prequels, Mass Effect 3 and Andromeda, Batman: Arkham Origins, Batman & Robin, Moonraker, Die Another Day, modern Sonic games, Star Trek: Voyager and countless other "terrible" things since I've been posting here, so I think we've established just how out-of-sync my opinions can be!

@mookysam Exactly; when the world gets dark, lighten the entertainment. Give everybody a bit of balance. Living in the shadow of September 11 and watching things like 24 and the Bourne films could get pretty grim. I really think you'll like SPECTRE, or at least I hope you do!

The Naked Gun films hold up surprisingly well, because the humour was harmless. That's likely thanks to the adorable Leslie Nielsen. Nobody was spiteful or dismissive of one another; the closest you come is exasperation, played for laughs or deadpan reactions. There are a few jokes or concepts that miss the mark today, because they're 30-year-old films and making a perfectly-timeless film (especially a comedy film) is impossible, but I'm never sitting and recoiling like I do with some other, older comedy films... or heck, even with some moments of Austin Powers, where he pushes the character just a little too far.

With you on Jurassic Park (although I do love the third one, mainly because it knows exactly what it is and doesn't try to distract with any needless complications; it just chucks people in with some dinosaurs and gets on with the running and screaming, which is what I'm watching for anyway). Can understand Harry Potter, but sorry to say that I lost track of that franchise (watched up to the third film at release, the same year as the fifth book, which was the last I read... after both of those, for some reason I just moved on) and can't see myself getting back into it.

The Lord of the Rings is... not my cup of tea in the slightest, I'm sorry to say. I don't really do fantasy-fantasy (yes, okay, Star Wars is basically a fantasy but it's in space with cool ships and lasers and droids and yes, I can be that shallow). I did watch all three films at the cinema, but mostly just so that I could discuss my opinion without being accused of criticising something I hadn't seen. I can appreciate the filmcraft and technical side of them, which was admittedly fantastic, but I kinda got bored by the end. Which is what most people say about Star Trek, so I'll shut up!

How are you liking The Clone Wars? I think you can guess how much I adore that show!

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Ralizah

@RogerRoger People like you serve an important function, though. Gadflies who go against the grain of public opinion offer alternative viewpoints, allowing for something to contrast with the tyranny of public consensus and sometimes even temper the ferocity with which certain pieces of media are struck down, often unfairly, by the zeitgeist of a particular period of time. Films that were regarded as terrible in the past are beloved classics now, and so-called "masterpieces" have often revealed their inherent narrative or structural weaknesses over time.

The film's biggest issue is its over-reliance, at times, on CGI. Otherwise, it was a good time. And I liked Irina Spalko more than most villains in the series.

Raiders of the Lost Ark will always be my favorite, though.

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

RogerRoger

@Ralizah Thank you for such an eloquent defence of my weird brain.

I do sometimes get a little wary of voicing my opinion, simply because the cynicism of the 21st Century often leads people to assume that I'm deliberately saying the opposite to get a reaction or seem edgy. Couldn't be further from the truth, especially when I rarely criticise anything; I still like the "good" stuff as well.

It's taken a while, but I'm starting to see more and more of my generation step forward and allow their nostalgia to give their opinions a boost. I guess, as you say, times change. People who grew up with the Star Wars prequels are lamenting the new films, just as those who grew up with the original trilogy lamented the prequels... and so the cycle continues. I'm sure Indiana Jones V will be incredible, and I'm really looking forward to it, but it can't be identical to the 1980s installments, nor will it be anything like 2008's Crystal Skull.

Spalko was amazing. I loved her character and motivations, and her constant presence throughout most of the story, either leading from the front or chasing close behind. Her "be careful what you wish for" death was also quite a neat twist on the Raiders ending.

Raiders is undoubtedly a classic, but every subsequent film upped the game for me (and it does fall prey to the admittedly-overstated criticism of Indy having zero impact on anything). The only reason The Last Crusade has the edge on Crystal Skull, for me personally, is the chemistry between Sean Connery and Harrison Ford, and the unintentional comedy it adds between the scripted fun. I just have a big, stupid grin on my face for the entire film.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

mookysam

@RogerRoger Fair enough on Lord of the Rings, that type of fantasy isn't for everyone. Oddly enough I'm usually not into high fantasy, and I couldn't get in to the books at all, but I loved the films.

Didn't see @Ralizah's comment on Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull while I was writing my previous post. I was always bemused by the negative reaction to that because it's not like the story was more outlandish than the others.

The Clone Wars is excellent - I finished season four a few weeks ago. I actually prefer conventional hand drawn animation to CG, but that aside, it's a well-written, well-plotted and excellently choreographed series that really expands on the lore of the prequel films. I've particularly enjoyed the political intrigue plotlines. Also, Asajj Ventress is amazing!

You're not alone on Mass Effect 3 and Star Trek Voyager. Both of them are awesome.

Black Lives Matter
Trans rights are human rights

Th3solution

@RogerRoger @Ralizah Yeah, the actual concept and basic idea of Indiana Jones is great. Making archaeology into a romantic adventure is a real feat. The issue I think is in the aging of the films. Compared with more modern films, they just don’t quite carry the impact or hold my attention quite. And there are plenty of eye-rolling moments that were probably cute and funny back in the 80’s, but fall flat. And the effects haven’t aged well either (the opening of the Ark with the melting faces, the Shaman dude pulling out the heart, etc). Ford’s exaggerated acting and charming swashbuckling attitude still delights though. However, just like when he showed up as Han Solo in The Force Awakens, when he shows up as the older Jones in Crystal Skull, he really comes across more like an actor trying to play the role of Harrison Ford playing the role of Indiana Jones. It just doesn’t seem natural as it was when he was young, and before so many other actors have tried to replicate the type of womanizing “aw-shucks I’m a lucky yet brilliant talented guy” characters he played. And LaBeouf ... I liked him in Holes. ...Then he grew up, and I just find him cringe-worthy now as an actor. I think I’m in the minority there though.
And the aliens ... well it wasn’t that bad. I don’t think that was what bothered me. I don’t know. Maybe I’ll try watching it again as it’s been a few years.

@mookysam The Lord of the Rings is fantastic! It is the epitome of my favorite epic trope — the small and weak protagonist that can go against all odds and accomplish things even the strong, wealthy, talented, well-equipped people cannot. The true championing of the underdog, celebration of the common folk, and that the key to the fate of the world lies in the hands of us average, little guys who have just a bit of courage and commitment to do what’s right, even in the face of great adversity.
We have oodles of superheroes stories of saving the world ... but every now and then I love seeing a movie portrayal emphasizing that what lies within us is more important that all that magic, strength, and power.

By no means do I claim to be refined in my tastes and I often follow the public perception, but sometimes I just like stuff and I can’t quite explain why.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

Ralizah

@RogerRoger Unfortunately, our technological evolution has arguably lapped our moral evolution as a species. I'm not sure that humans are really prepared to be as fully interconnected as they are right now, and that issue will likely only grow more prominent as tech continues to evolve, dragging a bunch of conflict-prone apes along for the ride.

I definitely agree it can be tiring to voice your genuine feelings when so many people online are prone to assuming the worst of you, or otherwise just behaving intolerantly. Joining the right community is definitely beneficial, though: on Push Square and Nintendo Life, there is a certain sense of community that keeps most of the more hostile actors at bay, allowing for productive, reasoned discussion. Compare these to a chaotic hellhole like GameFAQs or the controlling (and likely soon to be corrupt, as NeoGaf before it was) ResetEra.

As to Raiders: it definitely doesn't have a great plot. But, for me, it's filled with absolutely iconic scenes that linger in the memory. Far more than the other films, in my opinion. It's just incredibly fun and well-directed, which is all I could ask from an Indy film.

I think the only one I actively didn't enjoy was Temple of Doom. It's not bad, persay, but the setting did nothing for me, and I felt like certain aspects trended too dark, making it feel less like a family picture (a weird thing to say about a series where Nazis get their faces melted off in the first film, I know).

It has been years, though, so I should probably rewatch them. Some things sour unnecessarily in the memory. I'd like to view it again as its own film and see if my feelings improve.

@Th3solution I'm not under the impression that anybody actively likes LaBeouf. I tolerate his presence in films I'm otherwise enjoying. Although he hasn't had a particularly prolific career in Hollywood beyond Indy, Transformers, and a few small productions that most people haven't even heard of.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

Th3solution

@Ralizah

Ralizah wrote:

I'm not sure that humans are really prepared to be as fully interconnected as they are right now...
I definitely agree it can be tiring to voice your genuine feelings when so many people online are prone to assuming the worst of you, or otherwise just behaving intolerantly. Joining the right community is definitely beneficial, though: on Push Square and Nintendo Life, there is a certain sense of community that keeps most of the more hostile actors at bay, allowing for productive, reasoned discussion. Compare these to a chaotic hellhole like GameFAQs or the controlling (and likely soon to be corrupt, as NeoGaf before it was) ResetEra.

Well said, sir! I agree.

As for LaBeouf, as a lad, his Disney channel show was fine, and his movie career seemed to be off and running with Holes, but as so many of those Disney channel actors go, he seemed to fall off the deep end. (Miley Cyrus, the Olsen twins, Demi Lavato, Amanda Bynes, etc, etc) It seems the young actors from that era were either cursed by the Disney curse or suffered from a Michael Jackson-esque inability to handle fame at a young age and end up with odd life events and tabloid trouble seems to follow them. And with their acting careers, they seem to perform their adult roles out of spite, becoming more edgy and losing what it was we liked about them in the first place.
In their defense, I’m not sure anyone could tolerate growing up on the screen in front of the public. We all do stupid things — just most of us don’t have to broadcast it to the world, fortunately. And I think sometimes these child actors grow up with inflated egos, being told by society how wonderful they are before they are emotionally mature enough to handle it. Then, adult reality slaps them in the face and society turns on them, because well, we love to watch a train wreck.
Lol, I’m not sure how I got off on that tangent, but what was I saying? Oh yeah, check out Holes if you haven’t seen it. I found it to be a rather charming family movie with a solid Shia performance.

Edited on by Th3solution

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

RogerRoger

Can I also say how bizarre, yet fantastic, it is that the most in-depth discussion I'm currently having on this PlayStation-centric gaming forum has nothing to do with gaming? And not only that, but how heartwarming it is to discover so much common ground?

@mookysam Really glad to hear that you're enjoying The Clone Wars. It's a shame that people dismiss it for being animated, because it really adds layers and weight to the entire prequel era. The awkward comedy gels more (even Jar-Jar is kinda tolerable, and the sarcastic, kinda-stupid Battle Droid personality introduced in Revenge of the Sith fits perfectly) and yes, Ventress is brilliant, as are Cad Bane and Ahsoka. Season Five and the Lost Missions are the very best episodes, so you're in for a real treat wrapping it all up. I'll never forgive Disney for cancelling it.

Yay, another Voyager fan! We're a rare breed, so I'm celebrating.

@Th3solution Good to read your thoughts on Indiana Jones. I obviously disagree (or at least, disagree on the basis of watching them a good couple years ago) but can understand where you're coming from. As much as people blast remastered or special editions, I do think that some of the effects in the original trilogy could use a touch-up... in fact, I think one did, they removed black lines around a truck going over a cliff in Raiders, but a more extensive pass would be welcomed by me (and attacked by critics and older fans the world over, so Disney won't ever go for it).

Shia LaBeouf is a perfectly good actor, at least in the one role I've actively watched him in (Crystal Skull). I did see Transformers 2 once, but that entire unfortunate experience spawned a running gag with my university friends whereby they'd ask me to make "your Transformers 2 face" and I'd adopt an expression somewhere between confusion and agony, so we'll leave that one there.

Otherwise I don't know anything about the guy, but the story you convey sounds awfully familiar. I try to separate actors as people from their work; after all, if I were reading a well-written report, I wouldn't judge it based on the way the author votes. So many people I know refuse to watch Tom Cruise films, and they're just missing out. Would I invite him round for tea? Probably not, but his work on the Mission: Impossible franchise alone, in terms of genuine acting ability and stuntsmanship, is absolutely fantastic.

@Ralizah Couldn't have said it better myself. My partner keeps up with technology, particularly communication technology, and every time he introduces me to something like Google's new auto-complete email AI, I recoil in terror. The more technology steps in to "make things easier" by doing things for you, the more you forget how to interact, converse and comprehend. It started with text-speak ruining kids' English Language grades and Wikipedia being banned as reference material in academic works; goodness only knows where it'll end.

I've had some bad experiences online before, and it's taken me a while to find the confidence to take part in Push Square's community. The reason I could, and the reason I've stuck around, is because this place is one of the few good ones, run and populated by level-headed, reasonable and understanding folk... folk like you, for example. Sometimes the comments out on the front page can get a little "internet" but there's a firm and fair moderating team in place for such moments. I feel safe talking about myself and putting myself and my views in the firing line, at least on certain topics. I wouldn't anywhere else. The apes would drown me out.

I see what you're saying about Temple of Doom. The middle is very, very dark indeed; after such a joyful and spectacular extended chase sequence, it can be a bit of a shock. I would argue, however, that it answers not only that second act tone, but also the critics from Raiders who say that Indy didn't actively do anything, by building towards that triumphant finale where he defeats the villain, saves the slave children and restores the village. He has a direct impact. It's the first (and perhaps only) time we see "Indiana Jones, Hero" rather than "Indiana Jones, Guy Who Happened to Be There". For that reason alone, I can stomach the darkness, but I do agree that it's a fair point and that it does push things a little too far in some places.

If you do re-watch them, please let us know your thoughts if you've got the time!

Edited on by RogerRoger

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Jaz007

I like Shia Labouf an an actor. He was great in Transformers (a lot of the complaints about him there seem to be from him fulfilling his role well..., like people just says he runs and screams, as opposed to be old Arnold with muscles, he’s different playing a physically weaker chararacter and I like that), Eagle Eye and Lawless (this one in particular). I’ve never seen the problem honestly. He brought something different to lead roles. Someone probably a little more like most people would be in those situations.

Jaz007

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