I saw Infinity War and it was pretty good. I’ll also second the motion that you have to see it without spoilers. It’s more important than usual. It was a very good, well-paced and takes time to develop when needed. Something that some movies lack now. You need to see most of the Marvel movies for it to make sense, but it’s a very good thing that it exends this trust to the audience. It also had Thor back in character after the mess that was Ragnorok.
I’ll say that Thanos is a very well developed villain.
@JohnnyShoulder No,Thor was constantly out of character and tone and sountrack were all over the place. It tried to be nothing but entertaining, but I find it hard to be entertained when the result is bad quality. A more complete explanation is on page 29 of the thread. I don’t get why everyone likes it so much. I guess they liked everything being sacrificed on it being whimsical entertainment.
I've decided my semi-regular viewing of all the James Bond films is long-overdue, so got underway over the past few days with Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Goldfinger.
You can't watch these films from a modern-day perspective; if you do, all the awful editing, offensive treatment of certain characters and wooden acting would overwhelm you. Every three or four years, when I watch them all, they get worse and I notice more and more things that people simply wouldn't stand for today. They also have pretty uneven pacing (the second half of From Russia With Love is a mess, and when Bond is taken to Kentucky in Goldfinger you might as well take a nap for twenty minutes and come back when they start attacking Fort Knox).
All the classic elements that are currently worshipped, however, still manage to impress; the Aston Martin DB5 is gorgeous and great fun, and John Barry's music makes a big impact. Some of the one-liners still land, and the seemingly-chaotic stuntwork is exciting, even by today's standards.
Sean Connery is perhaps my least favourite Bond, fighting for last place with George Lazenby, but I think that's the fault of his later appearances; in his first three films, he does okay. Bond is less of a superhero, especially in large parts of From Russia With Love (a story all about how Bond is completely fooled, and Connery does well with the reveal and desperate scrabble to escape defeat).
If memory serves, it's the incredibly tedious Thunderball where he starts becoming an insufferable, invincible know-it-all, although early signs are present in Goldfinger. Wish me luck!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
I saw Avengers Infinity War earlier. Thought it was only OK and would give it 7 outta 10 max. The character development of Thanos was done really well but I did not like Josh Brolin's voice, it did not seem to fit that well. And some of the cgi looked a bit ropey in places, especially some of the cgi only characters. The action scenes were suitably epic but this is all starting to feel a bit by the numbers now. I also didn't feel that emotionally invested into any of the characters, even when big moments happened. I think this is one of the problems of dragging this all out over so many films and having so many characters involved. You usually get a couple that stand out while the rest are a bit of a blur in the background, in IW not one character I feels stands out and made me think they were awesome or anything.
Oh and the ending, ]I applaud them for trying something different but after 2 and half hours I don't expect it to end on a bloomin cliff hanger. And yes I knew there is gonna be a sequel.
@RogerRoger I've been watching the Bond films in order - one every Sunday afternoon - for the past six months or so. I still love the series and there is lots to enjoy, but certain elements have most definitely aged, and not just technically. In early films through to some of the Moore films, he forces himself on women, before they inevitably succumb to his charms. Live and Let Die stands out for its particularly racist and stereotypical depictions. It does have one of my favourite openings, however.
My favourite Bond is probably Pierce Brosnan. I think he's a good all rounder when it comes to what the character is, and they dropped some of the more undesirable trappings. I also really liked Timothy Dalton in "The Living Daylights". Daniel Craig is the best actor out of all of them though.
George Lazenby is a crap actor and perhaps the weakest part of his only Bond film, but I still believe "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" is a great film in other ways. Lovely music, great shots of beautiful places, and a brilliant sidekick in Diana Rigg. I also love the villainous henchwoman Irma Bunt and the Louis Armstrong's gorgeous song.
My favourite Bond films!
Casino Royale
Goldeneye
The Spy Who Loved Me
From Russia With Love (Colonel Klebb rules).
I enjoyed many others, but the above stand out as the best for me.
The Worst: Moonraker; Die Another Day
Die Another Day is legitimately one of the worst films I've ever seen.
Best Songs - Nobody Does it Better; A View to a Kill; Goldeneye
@mookysam I was so very, very in agreement with you... until you started listing your personal favourite and least favourite films! I guess it all comes down to what you look for in a film and what you, as a viewer, brings to the experience. But first, what we agree on!
I'm now up to The Man With the Golden Gun in my marathon and you're spot-on about Bond's treatment of women. I used to think that Goldfinger was my favourite from the Connery era, but watching him essentially rape a lesbian into submission (to romantic music, no less) made me incredibly uncomfortable. When I was younger, I didn't pick up on her sexuality and that element of the storyline (it's more explicit in the novel; the film watered it down) but now, it was so obvious, even without considering the recent #MeToo movement and general social progression. Only an awareness of historical context could I redress the balance in my brain, but it's why I recommended skipping the twenty minutes between Bond's arrival in Kentucky and the raid on Fort Knox.
Thunderballs is a complete mess of a film. There's no plot coherance whatsoever; it just jumps from scene to scene like it's some kind of two-hour trailer, where Bond and Felix are in a helicopter looking for the missing Vulcan and then say "Oh, gotta go back for more fuel!" and then forty minutes of nonsensical chasing and distractions later, they return to exactly the same scene and nothing has changed. It's also where you can see the rot starting to set in with Connery, who was reportedly very unhappy with the producers by this point. It's a victim of the series' runaway success and a lesson in the importance of restraint.
You Only Live Twice really impressed me. It's grows on me with each viewing over the years. The whole "let's make Bond Japanese" bit is so incredibly ridiculous, it dodges being offensive, but only just. Everything else is just so lavish. Japan looks beautiful and the Little Nellie chase is inspired. Finally meeting Blofeld and defeating SPECTRE really works as a payoff for the entire Connery era, a little more spectacularly and effectively than Diamonds Are Forever (which feels like it was filmed on a shoestring by comparison, and features the toe-curling Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd, who had a big impact on me as a teenager for all the wrong reasons... I do prefer Charles Grey's Blofeld, though; he's a hoot).
You're absolutely right; On Her Majesty's Secret Service is a wonderful film in spite of George Lazenby. I can't say it any better than you did, although I'll give credit to Lazenby for managing what he did under the intense pressure of being the new Bond. Nowadays we're used to iconic roles being re-cast, but he was one of the first and the producers should carry as much of the blame for casting him on looks and stuntsmanship alone.
Sir Roger Moore, may he rest in peace, is probably my favourite Bond, tied with Pierce Brosnan. His first two films, Live and Let Die and the aforementioned The Man With the Golden Gun, try too hard to recapture the spirit of the early Connery era. They're smaller, lower-budget affairs with a more serious overall tone. Moore is pushed in directions he doesn't want to take the character, namely being rough with women and dismissive of his kills. Again, you're right, the blaxploitation in his debut is a little tough to watch today, but as a result I've always loved the characters of Carl Strutter and Quarrel, Jr. who provide black heroism and support to Bond's quest. I don't think Moore's Bond comes across as a guilty party; he never utters a racist joke (that comes later, in one unfortunate Octopussy ad-lib) and it does have some incredible moments that would lead to the more comic-book-y, tongue-in-cheek tone of the later Moore films, like running across alligators to escape a deathtrap. It's also worth noting that Bond is attracted to, and sleeps with, Rosie long before he realises she's a double agent, making her technically the first interracial Bond Girl. It's a small victory, but hey.
I'm always open to re-evaluating my opinions; it's why I watch them all so frequently, but my current favourites are as follows (yep, this is where we disagree).
1. Die Another Day
2. A View to a Kill
3. The World is Not Enough
4. Moonraker
5. The Spy Who Loved Me
I won't begin to explain why "one of the worst films [you've] ever seen" is my top pick; I'll save that for when I get there in a couple weeks, mainly because I'm interested to see if it's still true (and also because this reply has gone on long enough; sorry about that). I'm also excited to re-watch the Daniel Craig era. I haven't watched them all together before, and haven't watched him as Bond since SPECTRE was released on Blu-Ray.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger Casino Royale was yesterday evening's Bond film. It's still my favourite (and I'll say why when you get to it), but I'll see how I feel about Daniel Craig's follow ups. I've previously watched Quantum of Solace twice, and really enjoyed it. Spectre is the only one I haven't seen. Craig is very dark and intense and brings a depth to Bond that we hadn't seen before, which I like.
Thunderball has some fun elements, but is let down by the overly long underwater (that just autocorrected as underwear) segments and a confusing, meandering plot. Sean Connery began to look increasingly weary as the series went on. You Only Live Twice on the other hand is a very good Bond film and a big improvement on Thunderball. The segment where he pretended to be Japanese was ridiculous. Did MI6 really think that the Japanese people would buy it? The beautiful Japanese scenery and exciting ninja finale really elevate it, however. Overall it's coherent and well structured with well choreographed action.
Diamonds are Forever isn't particularly good. Sean Connery looks haggard, acts bored and appears not to be working especially hard for the bumper pay cheque he received for the film. Tiffany Case is reduced to nothing more than a big-boobed ditz and Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd are very unfortunately stereotyped.
I'll wait until you've watched more before writing about them. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on my least favourite ones!
Random end of post thought! One of the elements I really like overall is the cars. They're gorgeous and awesome. It's weird because I'm not even a car fan.
1) Casino Royale
2) From Russia With Love
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service
4) Dr. No
5) Skyfall
Least favorite:
1) Moonraker
2) The World is Not Enough
3) Die Another Day (arguably the Batman and Robin of the franchise)
4) Goldfinger (unpopular opinion, I know, but it amazes me how utterly incompetent Bond is throughout this film; it's irritating to watch)
5) Quantum of Solace (not a bad film, necessarily, but more of a generic action thriller than a Bond film)
@mookysam SPECTRE is very, very good (at least I reckon so, but then Die Another Day is my overall favourite, so feel free to ignore me). Without spoiling anything, Craig still brings that darker edge to it, but the overall tone and style of the film feels like a more balanced Bond of old. I like Craig's films, like them a lot, but SPECTRE is my favourite because it evens things back out a bit. When you see the car chase, you'll know what I mean.
To be honest, most Bond films have overly-long underwear sequences, so I'd congratulate auto-correct for paying attention.
(Tiffany) Case in point; I really love her during the first half of Diamonds Are Forever. She's a together, cunning smuggler who doesn't trust Bond as far as she could throw him. She even tries to double-cross him after Bond so confidently tells Felix that, because he slept with her, his charm won her over. Unfortunately, because she showed self-preservation and initiative, Bond slaps her and she transforms into the "hired help" she lamented in her opening scene. By the time they get to Blofeld's oil rig, you're right, she's become a ditzy, overly-long underwear sequence.
Oh, and I'm the same regarding the cars; I know next-to-nothing about them, but I know which ones I like and they're usually from a Bond film. Speaking of which, I just finished watching The Spy Who Loved Me starring the fantastic Lotus Esprit (and there were some people running about in some other scenes, too, I guess). In all seriousness, it instantly solidified its position in my all-time favourites. From the opening Union Jack parachute ski jump to the moment Bond asks Stromberg the price for not nuking the world, and Stromberg just laughs at him, it really feels like a game-changer when you watch all the films in sequence. Moore is brilliant to watch, giving the serious moments just enough weight to work between all the gags and comic-book action sequences, and Jaws... well, it's Jaws! What's not to love? Plus, making his love interest a rival spy from the KGB, a woman who keeps pace with Bond throughout and has a complicated history with him before they've even met, finally starts to move things in the right direction. Amazing direction, gorgeous visuals, great pacing; an instant classic.
@Ralizah Don't worry, Goldfinger took another knock this time around for me, and I can completely understand what you mean about Bond's role in the plot (he does feel a little like Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark at times). I also know exactly what you mean about Quantum of Solace, but I'm hoping that context gives it an extra point or two.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger You're spot on with The Spy Who Loved Me! The pacing is so, so good and it's very exciting. It's also very beautifully shot. I was absolutely terrified of Jaws when I was a child. I was convinced he would emerge and eat me!
@Ralizah I don't hate Goldfinger but do think it has become overrated. Bond is a jerk (more than usual), and the Fort Knox sequence always sticks in my mind as being a bit naff.
@mookysam I always, despite having seen the film dozens of times, always jump out of my skin when Anya opens her closet on the train. Terrifying!
If I may, the reason I love the Fort Knox raid so much is mostly thanks to John Barry. Watching large numbers of people weakly fall over is made infinitely more entertaining than it should be because of the thundering score. Earlier, I dismissed large chunks of Thunderball, but even I've got to admit the moment where Bond is dancing with Fiona Volpe and there's a gun on him and the music builds and the cuts get faster and faster... it's a perfect thirty seconds of film, and it's John Barry's relentless score that makes it work, at least for me. Especially since he also knows when to shut up, and the music suddenly stops dead as soon as the gunshot rings out.
It's the same with Fort Knox; the music is on overdrive during the actual raid, then silent whilst Bond grapples with Oddjob. Suddenly, it's back and louder than ever as Bond goes to disarm the "atomic device" and the CIA are racing down to help him. Fast cuts, panic, crash zooms... and I'm on the edge of my seat every time.
I love all the Bond soundtracks, and would probably place David Arnold over John Barry (blasphemy, I know) but for all the amazing and iconic film scores out there, I don't think any franchise has used music so effectively as Bond. Even some of the more dated scores (to bring the thread back to The Spy Who Loved Me, for example) hold up and do nothing but enhance the sequences they accompany.
Okay, so a little insomnia has resulted in me watching three Bond films in the past twenty-four hours.
Moonraker is incredible, in every sense of the word. If you're going to venture dangerously close to farce territory whilst still trying to claim to be a serious franchise, Roger Moore is the man to carry it, and he does so brilliantly. Rather than a disjointed mess of styles, somebody clearly said, from the very top, "Look, we're sending Bond into space. There's no other way to do this, so tongues firmly in cheeks, everybody... let's make a bit of fun!" and such uniform direction and clarity makes it all work, at least for me. To commit to such a ludicrous premise, you also can't skimp on production values. Say whatever you want about Moonraker, but it's a gorgeous, incredibly well-made film, a tin of cinematic spam served on a golden plate. Love it, love all of it, from the insanity of the pre-title skydiving sequence right down to the double-taking pigeon.
The sudden shift towards a more grounded, gritty revenge thriller in For Your Eyes Only really works in the context of the outlandish previous two films. I really rate this film; the story is solid, with a neat twist in that Bond is working with the villain for much of it, and the action becomes more inventive by stripping away the gadgets and relying on guts; I love the 2CV chase and the tense moment Bond is forced to the top of a massive ski jump. Topol really makes the film shine for me, he's great. The climbing finale is also brilliant (you can take all the precautions in the world; that stuntman would've been in so much pain, I can unfortunately tell you). I'll also forever adore it because Roger Moore, in a single pre-title sequence, does what Sean Connery and George Lazenby could never do across the entirety of their seven films. He's just the best.
Parts of Octopussy are often criticised as being quite slow, but I think it helps make a more grand, sweeping adventure that's nowhere near as outlandish as The Spy Who Loved Me or Moonraker, but also not consumed by becoming the gritty Cold War thriller it seems to want to be in places. I've never had a problem with the quick costume changes throughout the second half, and India looks wonderful during the first half. Roger Moore never became bored with the part like Sean Connery did (or at least, if he did, he never let it show) and Maud Adams is fantastic. I also think that the double threat of Kamal Khan and General Orlov is an oft-overlooked and underrated piece of Bond villain history; two fantastic actors chewing every bit of the lavish scenery and turning in some crazed, sinister performances. I like it. I like it a lot.
Next up: Bond plays bridge with Christopher Walken. That can wait until tomorrow.
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
@RogerRoger It's cool that you're really into the soundtracks. They often go over my head although Goldeneye's score always sticks out. The first thing I think of when I hear it - even when I watch the film - is the N64 game.
Although Moonraker is one of my least favourites, there are bits I enjoy. One sequence that I especially like is the cable car confrontation with Jaws! What I dislike about the film in general is it is just a bit too silly. It's awesome that is the reason why you like it though. My brother really likes it because of the bits in space.
For Your Eyes Only is one of my favourites. It seems to be another lavishly shot Bond. Topol is great in it and I love the climbing finale! I'd read that Melina Havelock is considered by some fans to be one of the worst "Bond girls", but I think she's very strong willed. I like how at this point General Gogol and Bond have developed quite a bit of respect for each other. The bit with the Margaret Thatcher bit at the end is cringeworthy but I find myself laughing anyway.
Octopussy is a little uneven for me and as a result probably one of my least favourites. India is an excellent setting and I particularly enjoy the infiltration of the palace. Maud Adams is excellent. She's beautiful and elegant, and clearly commands power and respect, but I dislike how she finds herself used so much by the men around her. I always find the story a little bit confusing and Bond as a clown is odd.
A View to A Kill is pure 80's camp. I love May Day! The film as a whole doesn't especially click with me though.
@mookysam I'm glad you mentioned the games... more on that in a second.
I've never understood the criticism of Melina Havelock either. She's got a clear self-motivation and, to be honest, much of the film comes across as Bond helping her find justice, rather than her helping Bond prevent an evil plot. I also love how they gave her a crossbow; such a distinctive weapon, which is never played for laughs or revealed to be a weakness, gives her more character. Bond has his PPK, Oddjob had his hat, Jaws has his teeth, Melina's got her crossbow. Works for me!
General Gogol is great. He was always the friendly Russian but you're right, the developing trust for Moore's Bond (culminating in the Order of Lenin at the end of A View To A Kill) really hinges on the moment where Bond destroys the ATAC. Gogol's reaction is perfect, and his character nicely represents the changing political climate of the 70s and 80s.
Fair play on Octopussy. I can see how the two halves of style and tone (outlandish, high-camp adventure mashed together with gritty Cold War chase thriller) could be jarring for some. I'd also never thought about Octopussy's character in the context you give; you're right, she always seems to wind up the pawn in the power struggle between Bond, Kamal and Orlov. I think it's because her two most memorable moments for me are A: her blasting Bond's character and tearing him a new one, and B: her orchestration and leading of the attack on the Monsoon Palace, that I remember her so fondly. Oh, and she gets involved in the yo-yo saw fight scene, teaming up with Bond rather than cowering in a corner. She takes down a henchman with a dart, her octopus face-hugs another and then the crocodile eats the yo-yo saw thug, meaning Bond doesn't actually defeat anybody!
Right, so... over breakfast, I watched A View To A Kill. At this point, I could mute the audio and do all the lines myself. This was the first Bond film I ever saw, on a recorded-from-the-telly VHS when I was thirteen. It was because I'd been given the PSone Tomorrow Never Dies game for my birthday. I knew very little about the James Bond character before then (I'd even confused him with Indiana Jones once) so I asked my parents about this chap in my new game and they dug out Moore's final film for me. He looked different from Pierce Brosnan, but he was certainly the most charming, witty, stylish and capable hero I'd ever seen. For the longest time, I played the game endlessly and watched the film on repeat.
It's why I can't decide between Moore and Brosnan as my favourite Bond, because they were technically both my first ever Bond experiences. Die Another Day was the first Bond film I saw on the big screen, but A View To A Kill (and all the other Moore films, which were rapidly added to Christmas and birthday wishlists) had been analysed inside and out before I sat in that cinema, as had a few more of the games (The World is Not Enough, 007 Racing and Agent Under Fire, specifically).
As for the film itself? Objectively, I can understand why people don't think it's one of the best. Moore is pushing 60 and, in some places, can't hide it. Beyond the pre-title sequence, there are only two major locations, neither of which are particularly exotic. Some of the gags are a little cheesy, despite the film trying really hard to be serious in places, and the second half descends to a much darker tone after a relatively light, fluffy adventure in the first hour.
All that being said, Moore may be pushing 60 but he still nails the role. It's one of the rare moments we get to see Bond acting undercover, as the eccentric James St. John Smythe, rather than just arrogantly dismissing spycraft altogether as he usually does. Grace Jones is not only striking, but the Mayday character is really quite excellent; her final ten minutes of redemption are a highlight... and if you're gonna have a psychopathic villain, who better to play him than Christopher Walken? I'll even defend the film getting darker as it progresses, as Zorin slides further and further into insanity and Bond realises the seriousness of the situation and drops the St. John Smythe cover. When it's all over, I'm always sorry to see Moore (and Lois Maxwell's Moneypenny, lest we forget) depart the franchise, but they sure as heck end on a high.
Future posts will be shorter, sorry... this was just a major milestone film for me!
"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."
Me and the mister are avid cinema go-ers. We average 42 per year with our subscription based cards for Cineworld in the UK. On top of that we're currently making our way through films we missed in the cinema for whatever reason, thanks to Netflix.
Last night we watched Money Monster which was excellent - much better than I thought it would be!
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