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Topic: The Movie Thread

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BAMozzy

Generally, I prefer the 'tone' of DC's movies. The dark tone really started with the Tim Burton 'Batman' film. I think the issues though are more to do with editing and casting. BvS was good but considering the source material, the editing and the casting of Lex, it was let down. I know Marvel hasn't always got the casting right - Quicksilver, Some of the choices in the 3rd X-Men movie... That being said, the editing is 'better'. There are things in BvS that wouldn't be missed and some of the stuff that was cut was more 'important'.

With Wonder Woman, there wasn't a 'poor' casting choice and the editing didn't feel like important parts were cut. Maybe there are bits on the cutting room floor that may of improved some aspects but it didn't seem to leave 'gaps' that BvS left.

Marvel hasn't got 'everything' right - Deadpool in Wolverine is a classic example. At the worst though, most DC/Marvel films have been watchable, moderately 'fun' and entertaining - at least on face value but not all have been great. Personally I am not a fan of the Winter Soldier despite it being one of the 'best' according to a lot. Maybe its because I have never been a fan of Captain America. Civil War doesn't feel like a Captain America film - more an Avengers film.

I am looking forward to the next DC and next Marvel films - although as I rely on Sky to get to watch these, I am somewhat behind. I have just watched Wonder Woman and haven't yet seen Spider-Man, Thor Ragnorok, Justice League or Black Panther - I think that's all I haven't yet seen...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

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KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger
Well then in that regard, Justice League will keep you very busy!

MoS is not my favourite. Superman was a big deal in my house. All of the early films on video and used to record Lois & Clark and re-watch it, a lot. My favourite is Superman 3. It's a bit crap, but Reeve was in the best shape of his life, it has some flight sequences never matched in the series and the Superman vs Clark Kent fight is - to this day, my favourite scene in any film. It also had way less Margot Kidder (her Lois was a horribly selfish depiction).
I liked Returns for the effort; the music, the overall look - but it I can't find that I disagree with the majority of criticism levelled at it. My biggest bugbear is the end flying sequence where Routh is completely CG, which was completely unnecessary as it was filmed and using the incredibly expensive and elaborate football-field-sized flying rig they created.

Superman The Movie I would say remains the 'best'. Perfect balance of all elements and perfectly pitched for the time.

Affleck was great in BvS - the transition to JL is weird. It's like you can see every inch of his being doesn't want to do it any more. IMHO, Affleck just doesn't want to stay in shape to carry on being Batman. Which is a huge shame. I fully agree, BvS Batman has been the best on screen Batman (other than Kevin Conroy).

WB/DC animation is usually on point. they have a couple of duffers - Superman: Doomsday being the worst (though they are planning a proper Death and Return of Superman). But they usually do so very well adapting the comic stories.
The Batman & Harley Quinn film was set in the TAS universe. Nice to see and hear - but it's not a great film really. I don't think there's much they didn't cover over the course of TAS, B&R and TNBA though. Running on in to Superman TAS (also very good) onwards to Justice League then Justice League Unlimited was a great progression. I'd like more of Batman Beyond, the comics carried on and were really nicely done.

No elephant. I hate Bale - in general but also as Batman. The design work and slavishly 'real-world' production design was a little annoying. Both versions of Nolan's costume are terrible - though the Tumbler and Bat-Pod are undeniably cool.
I didn't really care that much for Begins, but it was decent. I must say though that I think The Dark Night is a great film. It is too long, but I'm not even sure how it could be cut down for pacing. It doesn't re-watch very well and it's all too tempting to skip through it. TDKR - less said the better. I appreciate the expectation of a certain amount of suspension of disbelief in these things, but that was silly. And Tom Hardy's Bane was both awful and a waste of a decent actor.

I hate Affleck for taking up the mantle then blowing it off. It's likely he wont end up in Matt Reeves' The Batman. I think frontrunners to take over are Jaoquin Phoenix and Jake Gyllennhall. recent reports suggest Karl Urban is interested too. I think Urban would be pretty good - but then my dreams of a 2000AD crossover (like Judgement in Gotham) will never happen! =D

Edited on by KALofKRYPTON

KALofKRYPTON

KALofKRYPTON

@BAMozzy
X-Men, Wolverine, Deadpool etc are Fox films. Marvel doesn't make them and they don't interact with the MCU (yet!).

Batman vs Superman doesn't really have a direct comic source. A lot of the fight concept and design of the Bat Armour is lifted from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns; an overrated comic if ever I've read one. And obviously The Death and Return of Superman - which would make an un-filmable mess!

Fully agree on The Winter Soldier. I found it quite dull.
I liked Civil War - it's based on some pretty poor bits of Marvel comics circa ten years ago - which again, as is - would be un-filmable. The main thing perhaps to take away from the MCU at the moment is where do they go after Infinity War - if anywhere. Contracts are up and other than Ragnarok, the solo films are showing fatigue. There's little to no point in a Back Widow film as Red Sparrow has just done it better. I can't see much traction in another stand alone Hulk film either. I honestly think of the Avengers - only Thor really has much left to do.

Spider-Man Homecoming is a good film. Casting is on point and I liked the story. If it has a weakness, it is it's deep dependence on the MCU.
For Marvel characters - I doubt they'll ever really do better than Raimi's Spider-Man 2.

KALofKRYPTON

Rudy_Manchego

Whoa - going to say it that The Dark Knight is one of my favourite films ever made. Are there problems with it? Sure but it is a terrifically tight thriller, with knock out performances and an on-screen representation of one of my favourite hero-villain dynamics ever. I like the Nolan films a lot, even though Dark Knight Rises is the weaker of the three. What works about those films is they have a start, middle and end. It was a complete journey and what it means is that someone else can come and do their take on Batman.

I get a lot of people don't feel it is the character from the comics and that is true but I think it was a great take on the psychology of Batman in a semi believable world.

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

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KALofKRYPTON

@Rudy_Manchego Fair. I detest Bale's performance. I don't particularly 'need' comic accuracy, also at this point, the term is meaningless - but I really can not stand his delivery of any of his spoken Batman lines. I get the psychology of what he was aiming for and have seen and read plenty on his characterisation. Just, don't like.

Should've ended on TDK. Would've still been a satisfying ending... more so probably.

KALofKRYPTON

Rudy_Manchego

@KALofKRYPTON Fair dues and in my mind. TDK was close to perfect. It could only go downhill!

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

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BAMozzy

@KALofKRYPTON Just because those films are made by Fox and don't interact with the MCU, they are still 'Marvel' films. I wasn't just talking about the 'connected' films of DC or Marvel but ALL films with Marvel or DC characters. Nobody argues that films like Deadpool or Logan aren't some of the greatest Marvel films and if it hadn't been for the success of the X-Men, maybe we wouldn't have had Iron Man and the start of the MCU. All these films still have 'Marvel' branding!

I know that BvS doesn't have a lot of source material for these two coming to blows but both have a long history and quality of Source material to make the film more meaningful. The Dark Knight Returns though does climax with a showdown between an aged Batman and an angry, politically-motivated Superman. The fight sees Superman fight not only an armored Batman, but also a brand-new Robin and a one-armed Green Arrow, with the latter employing synthetic kryptonite that allows the Dark Knight to triumph. Before this, they had always been seen as 'friends' and it took years before friendship returned in the comics. Anyway, the point was more about the source material of both characters, the supporting cast etc that could of been used to improve the movie - not just the collision course that Lex put these two on and the 'Martha'. There was so much more they could have done, better casting for Lex for a start. It seemed that the movie missed the mark with the DC history, missed the mark with some casting and certainly editing and also was split by the setting up of the Justice League movie and telling a cohesive Story.

As for the future, Part of the issue with having a 'connected' universe is that the cast grow old, contracts run out, get bored of playing the same role etc. That means that they either have to write characters out, move on to other, maybe less popular heroes, reboot the Universe or set it in a 'different' time zone - similar to the X-Men First Class. At least with 'stand alone' movies, they can have a different actor, focus on different storylines - whether directly from the comics or even using the comics as inspiration. I liked the Nolan Batman trilogy - not so much the third - funny how things tend to drop with the third (Superman 3, Batman Forever, Spiderman 3, X-Men 3 - even Iron Man 3 wasn't the 'best' although that was tied into the MCU). I know it gets 'tedious' with each new group also doing an Origins movie but as with comics, you don't get a 'continuous' shared universe. With the amount of reboots, different directions etc, its hard to know what is 'canon' any more - especially as the majority have ended up 'dead' at some point or another and then been alive in a different storyline.

Its easier to take each as separate and not have to watch 'every' movie in the universe to understand what's going on. Miss the Winter Soldier out for example and the films before and after are 'different' because of the events in that movie. You have to watch a movie that has little/no interest just to make sense of the movies that do interest. Not every of course as some stand-alone movies stand up in their own right because they are either introductions or 'separate' events that don't tie in to the main story arc because they happen somewhere (or when) else - off world, different time zone etc.

I have no issue with watching say a Spider-Man trilogy and then a totally different take on Spider-Man in another trilogy. Its doesn't need the same actor as the other Spider-man and can still tell a great Superhero story - doesn't need to tie in to Hulk or Iron Man movies or even tie in to the previous Spider-Man movies - just stand up on its own merits.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

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JohnnyShoulder

Rudy_Manchego wrote:

@Feena I watched Annihilation last night. Had been looking forward to it after reading the book trilogy. I really liked the adaptation, gutted I couldn't see it in the cinema here but really great and thoughtful sci-fi/horror.

Don't think it was ever released in the cinema, just went straight to Netflix.

JohnnyShoulder

Th3solution

Not being a student of the comics or animated series either with DC or Marvel, I guess you could call me a more casual superhero fan. I do watch all the movies from DC and Marvel and follow cinema plot lines, but as a casual fan, I enjoy the spectacle of new characters and seeing the heroes interact with each other. So I think I probably represent the less educated masses a little more who just want to see how does Hero A interact with Hero B and C and how would their powers size up against each other. For that reason I have liked the Marvel movies that get a bunch of other movies protagonists all together, as now in the later movies is happening with regularity. I can’t wait to see how the Guardians of the Galaxy interact with the Avengers in the next film. Some of this pandering to the masses creates confusion and weak storylines and characters that felt ‘plugged in’, which I think Justice League was guilty of, with Cyborg and Flash, and to an extent Aquaman just being forgettable.
I can appreciate whoever said Affleck was just going through the motions in JL. To me he seemed weak, overweight, and old compared to his companions — all actors who are buff and in their 20’s or 30’s and look more, ... heroic. I guess the 45 year old Affleck was supposed to be the distinguished elder statesman and leader but he came off looking lazy I thought.
And I agree with Spiderman Homecoming being quite good. It was a pleasant surprise.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Feena

@JohnnyShoulder it was released in cinemas in the US. Everywhere else it went straight to Netflix.

Never belligerent but always uncompromising.

BAMozzy

@JohnnyShoulder It was meant to be released in the Cinemas outside of the states but internal arguments between director and studio bosses over a poorly received test viewing, with a Paramount exec demanding changes and the Producer refusing and opting to keep the film as was, a deal was struck with Netflix to handle international distribution.

It was however made for the cinema first and foremost. As Director and Screenplay Writer Alex Garland said:

"We made the film for cinema. I've got no problem with the small screen at all. The best genre piece I've seen in a long time was The Handmaid's Tale, so I think there's incredible potential within that context, but if you're doing that – you make it for that [medium] and you think of it in those terms. Look... it is what it is. The film is getting a theatrical release in the States, which I'm really pleased about. One of the big pluses of Netflix is that it goes out to a lot of people and you don't have that strange opening weekend thing where you're wondering if anyone is going to turn up and then if they don't, it vanishes from cinema screens in two weeks. So it's got pluses and minuses, but from my point of view and the collective of the people who made it – [it was made] to be seen on a big screen."

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

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Rudy_Manchego

I don't want to blow anyones minds but after watching the toddler TV show 'In the Night Garden' on BBC Cbeebies I am convinced that Annihilation is a prequel to it. If you know, you know.

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

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Ralizah

I really wanted to love Annihilation. On paper, it ticks off all of my boxes.

In practice? It felt like it had a lot of unexplored potential. Tons of interesting themes and plot points are introduced or alluded to, but never explored. The movie has some wonderful, fantastical imagery that feels like it's being squandered by an unfocused script. It also didn't do a good job walking the line between science-fiction and horror.

With that said, it was an interesting failure. I'd still much rather see this than Black Panther, Avengers 3, Pitch Perfect 9, etc.

Edited on by Ralizah

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Th3solution

Alright, I was weak. I had to go see Tomb Raider today. And I’ve got a lot of thoughts about it. I’ll try my best to avoid spoilers as I know many on the forum will be interested in watching it eventually. Where to begin ...

Let me preface all my impressions with saying that I am a big Tomb Raider fan. I’ve liked both old school and new. Lara Croft is easily one of my very favorite characters. I watched and enjoyed both of the Angelina Jolie movies years ago, although I would never say the movies or her portrayal of Miss Croft resonated well with me. They were okay, but nothing I ever felt the need to highly recommend to anyone but a TR fan. So with that background in mind ....

I will start by saying Alicia Vikander is fabulous in the role, in my opinion. Obviously this being an origin story patterned after the 2013 game, she plays young Lara extremely well. In fact, she has officially moved way up my list to become one of my very favorite actresses after watching this movie. Honestly, I did feel like the script and direction of the movie actually seemed to hold her back, like she was shackled a smidge and could have really nailed it if she had a little better screenplay to deal with. That said, she performed admirably in the lead role. Her strong acting skills in portraying Lara’s naïveté and then escalation into violence for self preservation was spot on. Unfortunately the film itself has some pacing issues and jumps around a bit and falls short of really showcasing that progression well. Lara’s first kill is very well done, and even when the dialog of the script is lacking, Vikander’s face communicates the emotions of the character well. Wealthy and intelligent, yet very much the girl next door. Strong and athletic, yet vulnerable and inexperienced. It was probably my favorite part of the movie was watching Vikander take the role. And man, she’s cut. Physically much thinner than Jolie (and the video game character) but impressive nonetheless. Abs goals for sure.

The supporting actors are rather pedestrian. Perfectly serviceable, but nothing special. Perhaps because they are in stark contrast to Vikander, I don’t know. The villain is alright, but despite the movie’s attempts, he didn’t quite reach the level of disdain he should have. Her companion Lu Ren stuck out to me as a weak link. He’s a good actor, but I don’t think he was quite the right fit for the role. Something just didn’t set well with him, imo.

The movie itself was well told, outside of the pacing and jumping around a bit like I said. It could best be summed as an Indiana Jones meets National Treasure on a island type of movie. No surprise there. It loosely follows the game, and if you have seen the trailers you knew that. It’s slow to get going because it does the audience the service of a fair amount of build up and back story, rather than just jumping in at the scene on the boat sailing to the island like the game did. I liked the story and appreciated that it did vary from the game a little so it kept it fresh for me. Nevertheless if you’ve played the game, certain aspects of the plot and story won’t have the same impact. But don’t worry, there are plenty of surprises where it does deviate. I liked the nods to game’s fans like the inclusion of the bow and arrow and the pickaxe, and the funny scene where she buys her 2 handguns (that was in the trailer, so not a spoiler)

The action sequences were really good and are some of the best part of the show. The narrow escapes, the fights, the chase scenes. It all builds tension well, and is interestingly framed and realistically rendered, although if you have seen the trailer some of the video game-esque jumps and such are (intentionally) awe inspiring, but yet not too unbelievable. I kept thinking of Uncharted as a lot of the sequences are reminiscent of what Drake goes through in his adventures. However, unlike the other TR movies, the action doesn’t seem ridiculously superhuman (any more so than most action movies) and I appreciated that Lara was more realistic.

Overall I would recommend seeing it. Not great or transcendent, but a solid fun time. In my opinion it’s probably one of the best video game licensed movies out there. I realize this may sound like damning it with faint praise considering it’s peers (kind of like calling it the tallest dwarf) but it really is entertaining, especially for fans of the latter games. If you’re one of those TR purists and think the new games ruined the franchise, then you should probably avoid this movie though.

Edited on by Th3solution

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

RogerRoger

@Th3solution A big thanks for writing up your thoughts so comprehensively and clearly. I've been reading film critics' reviews (marking it down because they're not gamers and turn their nose up at anything connected with the "lesser" medium) and fan reactions (going nuts over it because it's got the words "Tomb Raider" on the poster and so therefore it can do no wrong, or alternatively ripping it to shreds just like the critics but simply because they don't like the recent reboot). Taking little nuggets of commonality from those perspectives, I'd say you've likely provided the most fair and balanced opinion possible, and it's likely the one I'll trust the most when I sit down to watch the Blu-Ray later in the year (cinema is out of the question for me right now, alas).

Alicia Vikander seems lovely in the handful of pre-release interviews and behind-the-scenes clips I've glanced at, and I'm glad she fits the new approach to Lara's character. I adored Angelina Jolie in the role, but have no problem with a different take. It's kinda like when they re-cast a new James Bond; you want it to be familiar, but also fresh enough to make it worth the price of admission, and you can always watch the old stuff as many times as you'd like. I'm also glad it decided to tell its own story in part, rather than replicate the 2013 reboot scene-for-cutscene, because otherwise I might as well just replay the gosh-darn thing.

"Roger roger."

Kidfried

@Th3solution Push Square staff should just place this comment on their front page. Love reading your impressions!

Regard my dear
It's all downhill from here

Th3solution

@Kidfried Thanks man! I get pretty long-winded sometimes and should probably restrain myself from rambling 😅 But I figured people would have a lot of interest in the movie seeing as many on here love the franchise.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

RogerRoger

@Th3solution It's not "long-winded", it's "detailed" and yes, there's a difference! If you were meant to restrain yourself, they'd put a character limit on the reply box.

"Roger roger."

usb

Watch King Kong Skull Island. Felt really uncomfortable watching the movie. Special effects were great though.

usb

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