Topic: The Movie Thread

@LN78, @RogerRoger, yeah, although I wasn't sure how well I'd like it (Phantom Menace) going in due to the prequels' reputation & the fact that it's been so long since I last watched any of them earnestly, but I'm glad to say I actually had more fun with it than many of the blockbusters the Hollywood of today is producing, and will definitely be going through with the rest of the series (not sure if I'll include the modern films, other than maybe Rogue One inbetween the trilogies, as I remember liking that one).

Anyhow, as that was the last film to go in my last purchase, I just ordered my next 4:

• Weird Science (the comedy of the group. Very 80's, but I like it)
• Evangelion 2.22 (continuing on from 1.11, it's the next film in line of the Evangelion remake saga, and my Japanese related film of the bunch)
• License to Kill (the next Bond film in line)
• Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones (next SW film in line, and my sci-fi pick).

I watched Batman vs Superman tonight, after having watched Nolan’s trilogy recently. It’s... not the worst film in the world. Comparing it to early MCU, it’s probably better than the first two Thor movies, the last two Iron Man movies and the Incredible Hulk by quite a margin. I actually like a lot of the ideas but it’s a very messy movie. Martha-gate is silly but I appreciate the sentiment. Batfleck is a great Bruce and the fights are good but I don’t like how bulky he is. There’s no skulking from the shadows, World’s Greatest Detective, just brute force.
I’d watch it again but it falls flat in some key aspects, like the entirety of Lex Luthor. Jesse Eisenberg is far more menacing as Zuckerberg than he is as Luthor, where he attempts a kinda ‘off the wall’ performance. It doesn’t work. Although this one sold me on Cavill. He does look a bit like a Rob Liefeld drawing (my pet hate) but he carries himself well and you can tell he’s just trying to do the right thing. Amy Adams (another fantastic actress buried by an awful superhero role) has as much charisma as Zod’s naked corpse. It’s painful at times.
It’s such a shame that Justice League turned out the way it did, I’m going to rewatch it but my memories aren’t good. They really shouldn’t try to be the MCU because it’s not working. BvS actually holds up OK in that regard, it’s its own beast and that’s no bad thing. It’s a frustrating movie, but I’d watch it over TDKR any day.

@RR529 First time watching Evangelion 2.22? It's a really wild action movie, and, unlike, the first Rebuild film, actually diverges from the original series pretty significantly.

@FullbringIchigo Being historically accurate with casting is obviously one of few scenarios where casting based on race would be justified. I say that only goes for actual history though, and not adaptations. I don't see why James Bond wouldn't be able to be a black person. His race is not at all inherent to his character, so changing it should make no difference. It's never as easy as just saying that that is how they were orginally written. Many of the works being adapted were written a long time before en masse diversity like we are trying to have now was accepted in any way. I don't see there being anything wrong with retroactively creating some more diversity with the older material. As long as race, sexuality or gender isn't of inherent importance to a character, there should be no reason it can't be changed.

Creating new characters of diverse nature is definitely one of the things most important to do, but surely going back and changing a gender, a race or a sexuality here and there can't hurt. These new characters to create aren't going to become prevalent any time soon, so we might as well adjust some characters while we are en route. Altering the race of someone like James Bond isn't cutting back on representation for white people. We have plenty of representation. So much so that changing any one role is entirely negligible for the state of our representation. It's the minorities where every character counts.

Equality, like you say, is the state of everyone being equal. The minorities we have right now are minorities exactly because they aren't represented equally. There will always be more opportunities for white people than there will be minorities. Always be more for heterosexual people than there will be for LGBT. Upping the representation of those underrepresented doesn't mean we become underrepresented. We are not responsible for the actions of racist ancestors, homophobic pasts or sexist history, but we can do our best to make sure that this time, we get it right and do strive for the equality we all should want. We're not there yet.

A more detailed look at Wonder Woman's 1984's Golden Eagle armour originally designed by Alex Ross:

https://www.polygon.com/2019/12/9/21002606/wonder-woman-1984-...

@Ralizah, I actually did watch 2.22 a number of years back when Toonami aired it, but that's been awhile. The only apparent deviation that comes to mind was that new Eva pilot (the girl with glasses in the pink plug suit), and I think a big twist at the end. Looking forward to watching it again.

@Tjuz Personally, generally and in the case of Bond (and others)- I'd rather he wasn't made an ethnic minority or in to a woman. (movie) Bond, despite the slightly softer leaning in the newer films is a pig - and he should absolutely stay that way. I don't think there's any need to put a black man (woman) in to those shoes.

In the broader sense - just make new characters rather than changing some IP that 'should' make money just to check a box.
Those that lead the 'charge' to advocate for diversity changes to existing IP, or at the very least foster a political view of any particular release tend not to be the audience who would be paying to see it.

On the subject of 'representation' in general; I just don't get it. I watch films, TV, read books and play games etc. Never once have I felt the need to see myself represented in these things. I turn to them for escapism. If any of those thing feature a cast of characters who happen to be racially and socially diverse, great, if not - no problem either.

It is for me, largely a bit of a drum to beat for some people and an exercise in narcissism for others.

@WanderingBullet That looks amazing!

Also, got around to watching 'Knives Out' over the weekend. Quite a lot of fun, breezy, nicely put together and nothing was 'subverted' along the way

Well done Ryan!

@KALofKRYPTON Yeah, but it does look like in the movie the armour will have a more shiny chrome finish look to it. Found the wings to be quite interesting too.

@LN78 @KALofKRYPTON I'll admit I haven't seen all that much of Bond, only really the recent Craig movies. Nothing that I've seen there have made me believe that a change in race would somehow alter the character in a major way. I understand that changing gender would probably be a step too far, and it's certainly not wrong to have preferences. Minority characters absolutely should be able to thrive on their own, but I don't see the problem with giving them some opportunities with established franchises for as long as we're not there yet. I don't think that's racist. Not trying to get hyper-focused on Bond either, as obviously what I'm saying I believe to go for most characters.

@Tjuz In the case of Bond - frankly, his history and origin just don't add up to him being black, so there would have to be yet more alterations to go along with it; And I certainly have no need to see a black guy portraying another womanising, chauvinistic, cold, slightly rapey character.

In some things - some characters and IPs, it doesn't really come with as much baggage.

On the whole though for major characters - it just feels counter-productive.

@Tjuz so what you're saying is OK because he is a white fictional character but it's not OK if he wasn't

if it's wrong for one then it's wrong for all, if it's wrong to change a black character into a white one or a asian one then they it's wrong to change a white character into a black or asian one too if we want proper equality and representation then it can't be one rule for one and one for another

but on to bond as we are using it as an example the very fact he is white has actually played into some of his stories, for example as a Spy he would at time impersonate people such as Scaramanga in The Man with the Golden Gun or how in Live and Let Die him being white was a major point because how one CIA agent put it "nice disguise Bond, a white guy in harlem"

but here is the thing, i have no issue if they did make Bond black as long as they don't try to pretend that he is the same Bond, reboot the franchise, have it be a new person who is given the name Bond as a code name whatever but they can't just change the race and or gender and pretend it's the same character from the past films, this isn't like Doctor Who where the character is a alien that can regenerate after all

it's not what they are doing but HOW they are doing it, they are doing it in a disrespectful way, not only to the audience they currently represent but also to the one they say they are representing by doing it, most of the time it comes off as a pandering cash grab and i think that's worse

remember hollywood doesn't care about diversity, they see it as a way to make money

@LN78 sounds interesting, first i heard of ti though

@LN78 I meant to look in to Tenet but forgot about it

Sounds like a nice idea - also not a million miles away from the book 'Time And Time Again' by Ben Elton.

@LN78 Ha! I hadn't even considered that, but yeah - very her!

@RR529 Good luck with Licence to Kill, by the way. Will be interested in your thoughts!

The Black Widow movie poster looks awesome. Definitely one of my favourite MCU poster so far.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESq2JNOXkAA-fig?format=jpg&na...

Also, Dio's Rainbow In The Dark will apparently be use in Thor: Love and Thunder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcWKZTI9OC4
The song's alright but I like the Immigrant Song better.

@FullbringIchigo Yes, I do believe that racebending a minority character to a caucasian is considerably different from the other way around. One is taking away a valuable character from communities that are already underrepresented, while the other way around isn't really affecting anything in the larger scope of things. The idea that the same sentiment should go for both ways is an ideal one for equality, until you realise that that equality is not currently there.

I'll admit that I'm a bit out of my depth in the whole Bond business since I'm only really familiar with the recent films, like I've said before. I think a reboot like you suggested would be wonderful idea for a racebended Bond if racebending with existing lore and history is such an issue for the character. Funny you should bring up Doctor Who, as I have always seen Bond kind of as a character like that. One portrayed by many different actors who each have their slightly different takes on it. I was delighted to see Jodie Whitaker be the newest Doctor Who, although I haven't seen the show. She's an incredible actress.

I do realise that Hollywood's primary interests aren't diversity, but business. Nothing wrong with using their primary interest as a roundabout way to end up favoring the audience! To circle back to an earlier discussion point, that is why actively supporting diversity is important. I realise that it rubs certain people the wrong way, but as long as the majority of people go out and support these movies, that is all we really need to keep our end of the equation going! That is why having minority characters in big blockbusters, racebended or not, will always be important. That is where the big bucks will be made and where it will be the easiest to keep convincing Hollywood to take a shot at it.

@LN78 Thanks for that addendum! I had no idea Nolan was trying to set up Tenet as a long-term franchise. That's fantastic. I wish more filmmakers had the swing to get something like that made. I'll definitely be giving it a looksie once it comes out, although I admit I'm most excited for Elizabeth Debicki. That woman can do no wrong.

And as a short, final addition to the racebending conversation. Disney has just cast Peter Pan for their upcoming live action adaptation, and it's a kid of Middle Eastern descent. With that and Aladdin getting a sequel, I'm glad to see that demographic get some more recognition too. They have to be easily one of the least represented ethnic groups in Hollywood at the moment. There's change happening, and we need to make sure it stays that way, whether we always agree on the best methods or not!

@Tjuz I just feel that race/genderbending characters is low-key an insult because they could have just written a movie about a character who embodies their community through more than just what they look like, you know? The Bond name would actually get the movie a big budget and advertising campaign though, a movie about a black spy would absolutely not get that level of attention otherwise.