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Topic: The Movie Thread

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KALofKRYPTON

Good lord!

Word is, Disney actually didn't invite Lucas to the premiere 🙄

I'd like to find out whether that is true.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

Th3solution

@LN78 Hmm... was it the same reviewer? I know a magazine or website will usually have a solitary identity and stay within a common persuasion, but a lot can depend on the individual. If it’s the same person, then this could bode well for those who disliked the prequels, especially with AotC being typically considered the weakest outing, perhaps Rise will resonate with the fandom seeking more distance from the prequels? I haven’t read the article, and probably won’t until after I see the film, but it sounds like the opinion of the magazine may be a deviation from the norm if they were so high on Episode II.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

RogerRoger

@Th3solution @LN78 I think, if I may, it has a little more to do with how critics fell over themselves to praise The Last Jedi and how breaking with convention and subverting expectation have become increasingly popular in recent years, at least in critical circles. I'm trying to stay away as well, but I glanced over the Empire piece before taking a look at the Rotten Tomatoes aggregate, and it currently stands at 55% fresh. Expect to see a reverse of the chasm between that and the user review percentage, just like The Last Jedi has 91% fresh from critics, yet a 43% audience score. Chalk up another example in the ever-growing "critics are out-of-touch and elitist" case study.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

@LN78 Yep. All of the positive reviews seem to be summarised as "It's a safe, fan-pleasing popcorn flick, and that's a great thing!" whereas all the negative ones say "It's a safe, fan-pleasing popcorn flick, and that's a terrible betrayal of the art form."

Given how vehement the reaction was to The Last Jedi, I reckon Disney have probably made the right call here, but I'll find out for certain tomorrow.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Th3solution

@LN78 Oh, ok - I see your point. I was looking at it from a “those who like the prequels tend to dislike the new trilogy and vice-versa” approach.
If Empire is known for being particularly forgiving to the big budget blockbusters, then it is scary to see them be down on the film. But I think @RogerRoger has a good point that it’s hard to sift through the reviews as many might be reactionary to The Last Jedi and none of the critics want to jump out and make the same mistake again of giving in to hype too early and being too over exuberant with positive vibes before the inevitable hardcore fan backlash sets in. Can’t wait to read some actual normal fan reviews on here, which will be much more telling to me.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

KALofKRYPTON

@LN78 @RogerRoger @Th3solution
I think one of the most telling comments I've seen from the premiere was "... Video game plotting". Now for us, we know that's likely from a person who probably hasn't played a video game in the vein of a single player experience from the last couple of generations, but it lends a lot of weight to the narrative mcguffins spoken of in the spoilers that speak of a couple of items that boil down to being fetch quests to aid exposition.

While TROS is clearly in the same ball park as TFA, I still can't really abide Palpatine's return in the manner it has been handled. It obviously wasn't ever the plan and whole thing will no doubt be the most cynical feeling of the sequel trilogy.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

Watched it, sat through the credits thinking about it, got food and thought about it, wandered around town and thought about it, even chatted briefly to my partner about it...

...and I still don't know what to make of Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker.

On the one hand, it ticked most of the boxes I wanted to see ticked. It spends a lot of time actively dismissing The Last Jedi, openly overwriting or waiving away everything that it established in place of blatant, almost desperate fan service. Lando is perfect. Threepio is perfect. Palpatine might be an obvious fourth-quarter ringer, only appearing to maniacally chew his way through cookie-cutter dialogue, but he's still perfect. Lightsabers still go "wum" a lot. John Williams actually showed up to work this time, missing a couple of epic opportunities but still delivering a belting, theme-heavy score. BB-8 is adorable. Chewie is Chewie.

But on the other, it's still a film mostly about two-dimensional Disney characters who, despite the best efforts of their actors, just don't stick their narrative landings. There are mysterious revelations that go nowhere, and promises of further reveals that never come. There's a lot (and I mean, a lot) of breathless running about, everybody trying their best to look busy, but it never really amounts to anything. Sometimes that's okay (heck, The Empire Strikes Back is a movie about a plot twist) but here, it rings hollow as a payoff to not only a trilogy, but a nine-film intergenerational saga. And whilst some of the heartstring-tugging works, the rest of it falls flat, as evidenced by the fact that I didn't cry once (and I cried at the trailer for The Call of the Wild they showed before it started).

There are also some criminally-short cameo appearances (seriously, if you're gonna drag somebody back, dress them in their classic costume and shove a camera in their face, do it for more than three seconds) and moments of such wasted potential, considering the legacy carried by a film subtitled "Episode IX", but then perhaps I expected too much, or listened to the wrong rumours. Nevertheless, you can see where content was truncated or cut altogether, not helped by the unfortunate circumstances surrounding Leia's detached, awkward role in the film.

Now, I could detail a bunch of key points and cover them in spoiler tags, but I won't because I think, ultimately, The Rise of Skywalker will be what each fan makes of it. You'll either be able to accept it for what it is, or you'll be so distracted by the well-documented behind-the-scenes issues and turmoil that you'll just notice all the cracks and be unable to immerse yourself in it.

Or if you're anything like me, you'll be torn between both, swinging wildly back and forth every ten seconds as everything hurtles towards its inevitable, slightly-predictable conclusion.

It's definitely the best of Disney's new trilogy, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good film.

Moments of it were damn good Star Wars, though.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

@LN78 His last two posts are largely accurate, except for a few minor specifics. The further back you go, the more inaccurate they become; for example, the one from November 20 is not how things play out, even if its arguably one possible interpretation of events. This lends weight to the rumours that there was a lot of cutting and reshuffling of scenes going on, with exposition being trimmed right down to avoid audience confusion.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Th3solution

@RogerRoger I’m slightly relieved to read your initial thoughts. I’ll take a lukewarm reaction at this point. And I found it interesting how you said it — like a piece of perspective art, what the individual viewer gets out of it might depend just as much on what bias is brought in. I can live with that. Sure, I’d love a film that is deemed a hands-down masterpiece to all comers, but the two previous films (and to a lesser extent the 8 previous films) have painted it into a corner where that is likely an impossible task; the best I expected is the situation you describe — that is, a film that is fun and at least gives service to the long-standing Star Wars fan, and glosses over the areas that are just not fixable due to past decisions. Maybe I’m reading into your thoughts a little too much, but that’s what I’m anticipating. In other words, I plan to put on my Star Wars fanboy glasses and not dissect the film apart too much and hope to come out at the end with some giddy midichlorian induced endorphins.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger Nice write up. Yeah, I largely stopped posting the spoiler stuff as it was just coming from different cuts. From what I've seen so far, the later stuff I saw was largely accurate.
Is the Leia thing of characters expositing towards her as jarring as some make out?

Also, B-Wings... Just the trailer shots or do we some good action with them?

Edited on by KALofKRYPTON

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

Ralizah

@RogerRoger Nice. You've made me a bit less apprehensive of the film. When I saw it was getting slammed, almost the first thought that popped into my head was: "watch this be the first decent mainline SW movie since the OT." It really is incredible how, as you put it, elitist and out of touch the press (in America, especially) is, and how that keeps being reflected in wildly different audience and critical reactions to films.

Granted, I'm not as down on TLJ as everyone else is (I still like it more than TFA or the prequel films, honestly), but it's nice to see Disney not doubling down on ruining the franchise for a lot of long-time fans.

My favorite review so far starts out as such:

"The Rise of Skywalker is the internet’s reward for complaining about the ingenuity, progress and power of director Rian Johnson’s previous Star Wars entry, The Last Jedi.

"Which is to say: it is an act of cowardice that sees a beloved nine-film saga sputter to a hugely disappointing and unaffecting end. Congratulations, internet. You killed the thing you, ahem, loved."

LOL

Source: https://studentedge.org/article/movie-review-star-wars-the-ri...

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

HallowMoonshadow

I've seen a few reviews calling out Rise of Skywalker for basically ignoring The Last Jedi.

Haven't watched Last Jedi myself (But the few things I've heard do sound bad) and don't plan to see it or the new one.

I watched The Force Awakens and ended up thinking it was too long winded and couldn't get over it just aping the originals tit for tat.

And then I watched Rogue One and... I got so very bored. The forgone conclusion just made me not give a hoot in slightest and I don't think the film actually added anything interesting to the table at all regarding it.

So I went back to the original like a month later.

... Couldn't get into it at all.

Used to really like the original trilogy films as a kid. Even the ewoks (kinda). The prequels... uhh... General Grevious was kinda cool I guess? 😅

Buuuut yeah... I think I'm over the series and tbh... I don't really mind either

Edited on by HallowMoonshadow

Previously known as Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy
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"You don't have to save the world to find meaning in life. Sometimes all you need is something simple, like someone to take care of"

mookysam

Just saw Star Wars Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker. It's undeniably messy, and it's entirely obvious that it was never the plan to finish the trilogy in this manner. After the dismal The Last Jedi I'm not sure that's a bad thing, but when it's noticeable on screen, there's perhaps a problem. Despite this, I found I really enjoyed the film and feel it's a satisfying ending to what's been an otherwise underwhelming trilogy. It's made to be a fan pleaser and thus ticks an awful lot of boxes. I love Palpatine, so that alone is enough to elevate it. He's awesome! There are moments that feel epic and moments that are poignant, but also plot holes, scenes that feel shoehorned in and occasionally strange character motivations. A particular plus point is that screen time is more balanced across the main players - Poe Dameron and Finn especially benefit from this. They're charismatic and likeable, and their banter is fun.

It's always been particularly difficult for me to warm to Rey as a character, because Daisy Ridley is a pretty crap actress and generally has the charisma of a cardboard box that's been left out in the rain. Angry Rey makes an appearance (perhaps Daisy took inspiration from Angry Lorraine Kelly, who knows) and is much more interesting. I even rooted for regular Rey during the final battle. Her counterpart, Severus Snape, I mean Kylo Ren, is a better character and his inner conflict is believable. Rey is fighting her genetic destiny whereas Kylo's conflict stems from coming to terms with the terrible things he's done. Neither need define who they are. In the end, after spending half the film hunting Rey down it doesn't take much for Kylo Ren to return to the light side of the force and near the film's conclusion the two end their bizarre love story by snogging.

As a J.J Abrams film the production is slick and flashy and you can practically see every dollar of the gargantuan budget. Foxy would surely be proud of the lens flare. The camera work is sometimes a little "off" in certain shots, for want if a better word. Although I prefer the space battles to the light saber duels, the film is exciting in the places it needs to be.

In all I consider this to be the best of the trilogy. It's flawed, but my emotional reaction was positive and I came away having enjoyed it.

Edited on by mookysam

Black Lives Matter
Trans rights are human rights

RogerRoger

@Th3solution Oh, absolutely. If you go in wanting to love it, you'll find plenty to love; conversely, if you go in wanting to notice errors, then you'll notice them. It could never please everybody, nor do a perfect job of concluding a trilogy AND wrapping up the Skywalker saga, but what we've ended up with will do (and it might not be how I'd have done it, but it's certainly just as valid a way as any other). It'll certainly make for some cracking home entertainment on rainy Sunday afternoons. With the mentality you describe, I'm sure your midichlorians (and a cheering American cinema audience) will carry you through just fine!

@KALofKRYPTON Unfortunately, yes, whilst it's lovely to see Leia and I respect them for trying, the resulting disconnect between her and the rest of the film is eerie. None of her scenes really work, which is a huge shame, and she isn't put front-and-centre like the script demands. I never felt hugely connected to the Leia character anyway (respected her much more as I've gotten older, she's a total badass, but I don't have the same childhood nostalgia for her that many share) so others may feel more strongly about her, or get a bigger kick from her appearance. Again, it's what you bring to the film that counts.

There were certainly B-Wings in the film! Not many hero shots of them, though, and nothing on the level of Hera's prototype test-flight. It's reminiscent of the Battle of Endor in that they're there, making up the numbers, but that's about it. The entire third act of the film is also quite dark, which made detail difficult to see between flashes of lighting; perhaps on Blu-Ray, you'll be able to see more of them in the wide angles.

@Ralizah I've been reading a few reviews myself, and I genuinely can't believe the levels at which some critics are spitting bile at this throwaway piece of harmless family entertainment.

Here's my favourite quote thusfar, from the scathing Forbes review.

It's not just that Rise of Skywalker undoes Last Jedi's "it's not your franchise anymore" metaphors - aimed at a generation that grew up loving Star Wars and then allowed two Palpatine-ish leaders (George W. Bush and Trump) to come into power - for generic "don't worry, Star Wars is still the best!" fan bait. It's that this is the only real reason this movie exists.

As a pretty liberal guy who hated The Last Jedi for valid, artistic reasons (bizarre that I have to quantify my opinion in such a way, but welcome to the culture these critics have created) I'm amazed that some of these people even have jobs, let alone editors who'll let them write such things... of course, then I remember that "controversy = clicks" and can now plausibly imagine their editors standing over them, demanding each paragraph be more ridiculous than the last.

It's textbook escalation. Just can't believe so many supposedly-educated writers have fallen for it.

@mookysam Solid write-up! I'd endorse many of your points, seems we'd have largely agreed if watching the film together. I do think you're a tad harsh on Daisy Ridley, but each to their own; I've certainly supported actors who've been universally panned before, so understand how some people just don't connect with others. I like your conclusions about her story, and about Kylo Ren's overall arc, too. I also agree with you about the camerawork; much of it lacked punch or flair, feeling quite workmanlike in a few places, although there were still plenty of money shots randomly placed throughout, right up to the end. All in all, a very fair assessment.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

mookysam

@RogerRoger Yeah, I'd say our thoughts are generally aligned. The film is certainly flawed, but for me it was surprisingly easy to look past them and enjoy it, because the plus points matter more.

Now I read my previous post back that sounds much more venomous than I'd intended. This is Daisy Ridley's best performance in the trilogy and in the end I did root for Rey, but yeah, overall it's been hard to connect with the character. In the immediate aftermath of the final battle I felt sad when she collapsed lifeless, though when Ben crawled over, I knew what was about to happen and then didn't want him to die.

I welled up when Carrie Fisher appeared. I agree with you that she doesn't really fit in the film, and Leia's exit is bizarre, but I can understand why the producers wanted to give her an on-screen send-off.

That Forbes quote might be one of the most ridiculous things I've read; what a bizarre leap in logic. I guess they want clicks and then outrage driving more clicks.

Edited on by mookysam

Black Lives Matter
Trans rights are human rights

Th3solution

@RogerRoger Well said, on your assessment of the journalist critical escalation. Perhaps these writers are aspiring for positions in the political newsrooms where such over-reaction and hyperbole is celebrated even more so. Heck, they’d actually make good politicians themselves — honing and perfecting the skill of creating division and controversy where there is none.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger Hmmm.
Well, I'll get around to it at some point. The little isn't all that interested, so maybe after Christmas.

The only thing I really, really want to see is Cats! It sounds like a perfect hot mess! 🔥😀

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

Ralizah

@RogerRoger This is the logical evolution of the "everything is political" mindset so many social progressives have adopted over the years in the States. There is no such thing as "harmless family/popcorn entertainment." Everything is communicating a message. Everything is a vehicle for propaganda of some sort. Even trying to avoid commentary on contemporary culture is a political act. So, if the newest SW film isn't actively disrupting and subverting and deconstructing the property like TLJ did, then it's choosing to be regressive and traditionalist in its approach. And pandering to old fans with fan service is a problem. After all, some portion of this older fanbase are Americans who voted for GWB and/or Trump, so we can't have that.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

PSN: Ralizah

RogerRoger

@Th3solution That's a very good (and disturbing) way of putting it; everybody's running for office nowadays, whether it be via their jobs, their social media profiles or their hobbies. I don't know about you but, living in such a world, I'm gonna get real tired, real fast.

Or I'll just stay home and watch more Star Wars. I like it when the thing blows up. It's cool.

@KALofKRYPTON Blimey, and I get stick for liking the prequels! Please, if you do brave Cats, come here and leave a tirade of brutal honesty! It'd be a Christmas treat for us all to read, I'm sure!

@Ralizah I spoke to my best friend earlier, and the first thing she asked me about was "the gay kiss" and who the two characters were. Apparently, despite wanting to steer clear of spoilers, her social media feeds had been buzzing with self-congratulating symbolic victory speeches from the LGBTQ+ community (including a handful using it to fire political potshots). Since she knew nothing beyond the headlines, she asked me whether it was Finn and Poe. When I told her who it actually was, she said "Who?" and then, when I told her that it was a fleeting moment amidst a brief shot of widespread celebration, she said "Oh, is that all? It sounded like a bigger deal."

I thought the kiss was a sweet thing, but no more or less sweet than any of the other celebration reactions, hugs, kisses, cheers or what-have-you, and it certainly wasn't given any special fanfare or focus; it was just a shot of victorious joy, befitting the context of a hundred other, similar moments.

Just goes to show that anybody can and will weaponise any frame of any film to serve their needs.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

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