Topic: The Movie Thread

@Arugula Yeah, I got curious and looked up his Bio to make sure you weren’t pulling my leg 😜, and he moved around a lot as a kid and mom was a circus performer and dad was from South Africa. So growing up in such a diverse setting would certainly help a young person develop a wide array of acting and speaking skills. Not sure why he’s such an enormous jerk (allegedly) but I think 90% of actors are, so it’s not that alarming. Kinda like politicians — there’s not a decent one among them, no matter which party.

@Th3solution I've also found your write-up helpful, thank you, although in helping me make the opposite decision @Arugula has. Trailers and articles had me curious enough to want to see it someday, but then you mentioned its runtime. I'd have 90 minutes of patience for it, maybe two hours at a push, but two-and-a-half hours? No thanks. Particularly since I'm somebody who falls on the "dislike" side of the Christian Bale fence.

Anyone know anything about this grass roots movement to try to get the Snyder cut of Justice League released? I just happened to see a headline and read a little about it. Seems all the actors (Affleck, Mamoa, Gadot) are behind the movement. I’m curious how the Snyder cut would be different. As a fan, I’d like to see that. I guess it’s a more dark and serious film before Wheedon tried to add more levity last minute? I usually don’t follow the production back stories but it sounds interesting. Do you think we’ll ever see the Snyder cut?

@LN78
It's not from WB.

I've been circling the organisers and interested parties on twitter for quite a while. The guy behind 'The Black Suit Version' got me on to it. Did a fair amount of retweeting over the weekend.

@Th3solution The differences are pretty major. Whedon didn't just add levity. You can see from trailers that feature altered and missing scenes from the theatrical release, as well as deleted scenes, storyboards and plenty of stuff Snyder himself has put out that the original version was a very different film.

Judging by the theatrical release alone, easily every scene with Cavil other than the JL fight was entirely reshot. Affleck is in terrible shape and has an obvious hair piece in plenty of scenes too. As Gal Gadot was pregnant by the time of the reshoots, a lot of her additional stuff is done as torso shots.
Whedon didn't have a huge amount of time (WB exec's refused to push the release date to preserve their bonuses) - but he did a lot of new shots and re-editing to try and center Steppenwolf as the sole villain.

Momoa claims to have seen the cut and says it's great and would like to have it released as it's such a different film.

The main question I have is whether the Snyder Cut would be the full 'part 1' version (where Superman falls to the anti life equation and fulfills Batman's nightmare) - or whether the production was already set up for just the one film by then.

@LN78 See, I really like Man of Steel, BvS certainly has problems, the theatrical version especially - but again, I really quite like it.

I like what Snyder was going for. Without the exec's getting all flustered, we might have gotten an actual Man of Steel sequel before they fell back on the always bankable Batman and rushed Snyder's vision.

I don't actually think WB will work to complete the cut. Not without significant change in the power structure. Snyder fell out with someone there, and to compete and release the cut is tantamount to confirming that they're just a bunch of cash hungry suits who were wrong to fire Snyder and continue with aplomb to chase the Avengers money.

@KALofKRYPTON @LN78 I guess if the Snyder cut is that different, with actual plot variance, then it would be strange to release it if it would alter the DCEU narrative direction and canon. But if the series isn’t going to be carried on anyways, then it might be worth a shot. Sounds like it is not likely to happen though.

@Th3solution I think it's highly unlikely to be anything but a fan undertaking, possibly with help from Snyder.

The original JL idea (well, post BvS) was a two parter. Steppenwolf was meant to try and revive Superman with the anti life equation and help turn him to Darkseid's cause. Batman's BvS nightmare was meant to be realised at the end of part 1 with part two being Superman's redemption and turn against Darkseid.

This condensed down to 1 film, which I think is where the reportedly 'unwatchable' screener came from. Snyder streamlined a lot of it, but he did shoot Darkseid scenes for JL.

As a staunch supporter of Batman V Superman, particularly in its extended form, but also as somebody who quite liked Justice League for what it eventually became, I'm in two minds. Would I love to see the original plan realised? Of course, but only as the full two-part epic it was meant to be, with Hans Zimmer (who said he'd never do another superhero film again) and all of the original cast (many of whom, including Ben Affleck, probably wouldn't return to complete unfinished work). And since that's unlikely to happen, I don't think I'd like to see any half-hearted attempt that'd inevitably fall short.

@LN78 I saw that. He's lifted a lot of that from other YouTubers.
Still not sure if the Jimmy Olsen thing was a joke or whether he's not actually sure who Marc McClure is.

@RogerRoger I'd like to see it. Even in a 'workprint' version.

I think Junkie XL would've maintained the Zimmer themes and what they collaborated on for BvS. Would've been a lot better than what Elfman slapped together.

@KALofKRYPTON As a piece of bat-history then yeah, I guess in any shape or form. I don't think I'd buy it unless it felt complete enough to watch and enjoy, though.

I'm always on the fence between the Zimmer / XL score and Elfman's work. I think each suited the eventual tones of their respective films, and they aren't as interchangeable as some YouTube edits would have you believe (seriously, I just wanna watch the Knightcrawler scene again, stop pasting over it with ill-fitting music!) so I'm certain that, if a Snyder Cut were to surface, it'd need all new Zimmer / XL scoring to feel anywhere near legitimate.

@RogerRoger Don't get me wrong. In general I really like Elfman's work, but the JL score was nothing more than workman
-like. The recycling of the Burton Batman and Williams Superman themes felt lazy and cynical for characters who had new scores and motifs in place already.

As far as I'm aware, XL completed his JL score. WB just decided not to use it to distance the film further from Snyder's work.

I like his Batman work on BvS, and like that Zimmer refused to do it but agreed to the collaboration with XL.

@KALofKRYPTON I can see your perspective on the Justice League score, absolutely. I do quite like his main hero theme for the League itself, as well as the anti-hero theme, but a lot of the incidental stuff used to link those moments together does become (admittedly hummable) musical wallpaper. I think the mandate to use the classic Batman and Superman material came from WB, who were desperately trying to tap into nostalgia and legacy (although I'm not gonna blame the man who defined the Batman sound of an entire generation for wanting to resurrect it, either).

Oh, there's a completed score out there? Now I want to hear it. Junkie XL is a talented composer for the modern age (if you absolutely must have techno-percussion and blaring Inception horns, then it might as well be the best example of it... although, having said that, I really liked the "Men Are Still Good" theme featured in Batman V Superman because It had hints of a tune; felt very fitting for Batfleck).

Speaking of Burton's Batman, you've seen the forthcoming LEGO set of your favourite Batmobile, yes?

https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/1989-batmobile-76139

Despite not having any space to display it (yet; just deciding what to sacrifice) I've got one on pre-order. It might not be my favourite Batmobile, but it's a gosh-darn classic and a gorgeous thing!

@RogerRoger I think Elfman only had a matter of weeks to work on the score. I think a rescore with the previous MoS, BvS and some additional bits from WW would probably fit better too.

I have seen it(!) - it's quite a thing, bit too rich for my blood. I also have nowhere to put it!

@KALofKRYPTON That's no excuse, though. Jerry Goldsmith only had a fortnight to score Air Force One and, despite him claiming that he would "never, ever again" take such a short schedule, he still turned out a pitch-perfect triumph of a soundtrack... but that being said, he probably didn't have an overly-meddlesome studio breathing down his neck the entire time.

Yeah, eyes bigger than my shelves, but I can't not. You get a smaller version, to scale with the minifigs, for free if you buy it in the first week. Curse you, LEGO!

Some of you may remember that I took on the project of watching the entirety of the 22 MCU movies in quick succession in order to get a more cohesive feel for the plot of the infinity stones. It’s been a little while since I completed that cinematic journey and I realized that I didn’t post my concluding thoughts on here as I had said I would.

My apologies, as the MCU has been discussed ad nauseum so I’ll try to keep it simple and try to avoid being trite or unnecessarily repetitious.
For fans like me, I never tire of discussing and reviewing them, but I realize it’s probably the exception rather than the rule and most people are just worn out with the whole franchise. In fact I think one of the challenges for Disney going forward is to not overwork the ‘goose who’s laying the golden egg’ and find a way to keep the MCU fresh.

Even with my love of the Marvel characters and properties, I experienced a modicum of fatigue at the whole thing, as some of you may have noticed because it did take me a while to complete this Herculean task of watching them all back-to-back.

So I don’t think I’ll belabor this post with a lot of detail on the movies themselves and just paint my impressions with broad strokes. And really, I just have one main discovery that I want to portray...

First, some background. In general terms, to be a truly affecting pursuit, a movie must have character progression and be character centered and character driven. The same could be said of video games. For a narrative to stick, it should have a good character arc with meaningful conflict. Case in point — the movie Titanic comes to mind. We all went into the movie expecting to see a spectacle of a huge ship sinking and what we got was a love story about endearing characters and the shipwreck was just a backdrop. And that’s what ultimately turned the film into a 2.1 billion dollar moneymaker that sits at number 3 all time in box office revenue.

And I’ve said it on here when discussing movies and video games, but I’m a sucker for a good redemption story arc. Perhaps it says something about my deep personal psyche, a flawed human who makes mistakes, has bad things happen to him, tries constantly to be a better person, and desires to be better. A person who wants to be a hero but feels too flawed because of individual weaknesses. I like to see mighty and physically powerful characters have to rely on some deep, personal, greater strength within to succeed, because in the end, that’s all I have. I can’t fly or shoot lasers from my hand. I can’t even fire a bow and arrow straight. But I can be a vehicle for sacrifice, love, service, and integrity. I think if a story neglects the importance of the human spirit to win the conflict then it is hamstrung from the impact it can carry.

So where am I going with all this? Repeatedly the MCU movies went to the well of character redemption over and over. I think that is part of what has endeared the franchise to the populace. All the qualities I described above are seen in a majority of the individual movies, where a character is down on their luck, somehow inferior, made poor choices, was a victim of circumstance... and then overcame their personal demons in some way. So each movie is a microcosm of the greater redemptive arc, but taken as a whole (and here is where I’m getting to my point) the entire infinity stone series is the story of Tony Stark’s rise, fall, and redemption. (I don’t think many people have not yet seen End Game, but I spoiler tagged things just in case).
Each of the characters have smaller versions of their individual redemption (Steve Rogers, Natasha, Clint...)
...but in the same way that the Star Wars movies (at least episodes 1-6) are actually all just a story of the rise, fall, and ultimate redemption of Anakin Skywalker, the story of the MCU is the same for Iron Man. The infinity stones and all the destruction of the universe, that’s all just backdrop, like the Titanic.

So, for example — if watched in a vacuum, the original Star Wars trilogy seems the story of a band of improbable rebels against an evil empire. Or many would consider it the story of Luke Skywalker, a small town boy who discovers he has powers that he learns to control. Only when watched in the context of the prequels do you understand Lucas’s vision of the overarching story actually being the tale of Anakin Skywalker. I see a little bit of that here with the MCU.

When viewed in this light, the whole chaos of the films becomes a little more tolerable. End Game is fraught with narrative weakness, emotional manipulation, and tons of deus ex machina; it has its fair share of over-abundant visual flare and coy one-liners — but after all the investment in what was done and said over multiple movies, we all got the satisfying payoff — the simple story of a man who has redeemed himself through self sacrifice. And with that last snap, Tony Stark has his Darth Vader moment and goodness rules the day. Despite dozens of hours of condescending banter from the egotistical playboy, Stark was able to ascend and rectify his own weaknesses..

Sure — watching all the movies together helped to be able to track the stones better, learn the nuances of back stories, and fill in the gaps in my own memory of the storyline — but I didn’t expect that my overall impression would be this. And I think it’s one reason why the movies have managed to appeal to such a broad audience; although maybe I’m giving the lay public too much credit. But either way, for me the long series struck a personal note because of that simple storytelling tactic.

Next up: The Hunger Games. (I was considering doing the DCEU all in a row or the X-Men movies in sequence, but I’m about superhero-ed out right now)

@Th3solution
Good write up! Coming down to the 'broad strokes' thing does sum them up. That is basically what 'geek culture' is now, loathed as many are at the thought of their particular 'thing' more often than not being part of a billion dollar business model.

Given the horrendous things leaking about Rise of Skywalker I'm not sure that Vader's redemption arc will be much of valid touchstone for very long.

Do the X-Men, because I'm a bit of a sadist and at least *counts 5 of those films are genuinely terrible!

@KALofKRYPTON Thanks! And regarding Rise of Skywalker... please, no. If they ruin that core piece of personal inspiration for me then I might just lose it.
And I’ll do X-men eventually, but I know there are some really tough ones in there and I value my sanity too much at present. 😅

@Th3solution As much I love the MCU, I don't think I can watch all 22 movies back-to-back. Kudos to you.haha

I definitely wouldn't watch all X-Men movies back-to-back either as they're more misses then hits in that franchise.

@Th3solution Thankfully, ROTJ won't change. Actually no, our experiences of it won't change since George set a precedent for alterations. But the RoS leaks concern a version of parts of the film that Iger (and test audiences) didn't like - so it's possible that it hasn't made it in to the release. But I doubt it.

Now, careful here on in everyone ***MAJOR POTENTIAL RISE OF SKYWALKER SPOILER BELOW***