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Topic: The Movie Thread

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LN78

@Rudy_Manchego I take it you will be buying the new edition next week?
EDIT Just checked and it's out on Monday. Apparently the "Final Cut" is a hybrid amalgamation of the two previously released versions, so who knows if the Plantation scene will make it this time?

Edited on by LN78

LN78

PSN: Lanooch

Rudy_Manchego

@LN78 I will get it but more from a collectors perspective. Might get the 4K version.

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

https://jambags.co.uk

PSN: Rudy_Manchego | Twitter:

LN78

@Rudy_Manchego Why from a collector's perspective? Are you not interested in the new edit? I'm certainly going to be getting the 4K version. From what I've been reading the remaster is an absolutely top notch job with great use of HDR and a new Atmos soundtrack. War movies in particular seem to benefit most from decent sound mixes.

LN78

PSN: Lanooch

Rudy_Manchego

@LN78 Interested I suppose as you say, from the improvements but I would rather have that done to the original without additional edits. It is a bit like the Star Wars original trilogy in that Lucas refuses to remaster the original cuts which annoys me.

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

https://jambags.co.uk

PSN: Rudy_Manchego | Twitter:

LN78

@Rudy_Manchego The original and redux cuts are included in the boxset (along with the "Hearts of Darkness" doc that you mentioned) but it's not really clear if they have been remastered on not. If I had to guess I'd say probably not,though. I actually mentioned the other day that were Disney to release a 4K edition of the untampered with Star Wars Trilogy I would bite their arm off (as would many other fans) but arcane and convoluted rights issues mean it is incredibly unlikely to happen. As you are probably aware, there is a terrific HD fan edit called the "despecialised edition" floating around but obviously I would never recommend that you avail yourself of such a flagrantly illegal product. Ahem.

Edited on by LN78

LN78

PSN: Lanooch

KALofKRYPTON

@LN78 @Rudy_Manchego I on the other hand would highly recommend the Star Wars Despecialised edits. Really clever work.

Fan edits aren't straight up piracy, but certainly a legal gray area in most territories. Personally, I've never acquired a fan edit of something that I didn't own as a commercial release. I'm yet to hear of a studio (even for Star Wars) actually going after creators or consumers of a fan edit.

Easily the best one (and hardest to get) I've seen was for the Billy Zane Phantom film, which I love anyway - but the edit was done in black & white with a few smart edits here & there to manage the tone a little better.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

LN78

@KALofKRYPTON I was being a little facetious. I've got the Despecialised Editions (thank goodness they exist) and I'm told that as long as you ALSO own the official Blu-Ray set then you are firmly in the legal no-man's-land that you mentioned and unlikely to face any sort of rebuke from the Mickey Mouse Men in Black. I want to get my hands on the edit of The Hobbit that reduces the whole ordeal down to just over 3 hours at some point,too.

LN78

PSN: Lanooch

KALofKRYPTON

@LN78 Urgh... The Hobbit(s).

I still have the mid 2000's SE DVDs that came with the original Laserdisc transfers, but they do look pretty shocking, certainly not as good as the late 90's VHS releases that cleaned up the originals.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

LN78

@KALofKRYPTON Yup. Those Hobbit movies are definitely the second most disappointing set of prequel movies ever made. I think I might have the "last time available" THX widescreen VHS set of the OT in an attic somewhere. I dread to think how much money I spanked on Star Wars related stuff up until the release of The Phantom Menace. Lots.

Edited on by LN78

LN78

PSN: Lanooch

Th3solution

@LN78 @KALofKRYPTON Yeah, that Hobbit fan edit would be interesting to see since the production value of the prequels was great, as was the acting, music, and just about everything else except for the bloated runtime and unnecessary additional plot (looking at you, Tauriel). The performances were top notch, imo — Martin Freeman was endearing, Richard Armitage was convincing, and even Evangeline Lilly was well cast even if her character was completely unnecessary. An edit to just trim all that fat off the trilogy into a single 3-4 hour episode is a great idea.

On the subject of editing movies you own, not sure if you know of the lawsuits with VidAngel, but the very no man’s land you speak of has been fought over and so far the deep pockets of Disney, Fox, et al seems to be winning. Granted the idea of selling the consumer a copy of the movie, then editing it for them, letting them watch it how they want (namely to allow for editing out violence, language, sex, etc), then buying back the movie from them is a bit of a loophole, but VidAngel’s whole claim was that if they actually sell the movie to the consumer before editing it then they were within their rights. Well, the courts made VidAngel shut down that practice. Now they apparently subsist on editing shows only via streaming services, but the original idea was more of a buy, edit, watch, and sell back model where effectively it was like renting the movie.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

KALofKRYPTON

@Th3solution That's pretty interesting - I'd never heard of VidAngel. I can't really see how it differs particularly from broadcast television channels screening safer edits of movies.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

Th3solution

@KALofKRYPTON Yeah, I just realized that it’s an American company so it likely isn’t a factor in the UK, Europe, or elsewhere. It’s is US district courts that are handling the suit, and I have no idea how this effects things internationally. But yeah, if you’re interested then google VidAngel lawsuit, or something similar and you’ll see quite a bit on it.
Rumor has it that one of the attorneys even changed sides and joined the VidAngel camp early on since the law seemed to be in their favor. But so far they are still under a “cease and desist” type of order, as far as I know. I don’t claim to know or understand the law, but yeah - I’m not sure why network TV is allowed to show an edited version. Perhaps those are all worked out on a case by case basis and there are royalties involved that might be the issue. But at its core, VidAngel wasn’t stealing anything, they were buying a copy of every movie that they edited and could distribute them if the customer didn’t want to sell it back after watching it. (Similar to what Red Box and other rental services do). The difference is that the movie was able to be edited. Apparently filmmakers don’t like you modify their artistic vision. It’s an interesting quandary.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

RogerRoger

@Rudy_Manchego Thanks for the Heart of Darkness documentary recommendation on the previous page. If I see it anywhere, I'll give it a look-see.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

PaperyWhiteBoy

Since you guys are discussing fan-edits and the like, I thought I'd point you towards Steven Soderbergh's blog, specifically this page, where he experiments with combining Raiders of the Lost Arc with Reznor/Ross' score for Girl With the Dragon Tattoo : http://extension765.com/soderblogh/18-raiders

Technically it's not an edit per se, but if you're a filmmaker (as I am) or student of film in general it's a fascinating watch. I recommend taking a look.

PaperyWhiteBoy

RR529

Oblivion (Blu-Ray) - Sci-Fi film that sees Tom Cruise in the role of Jack, a man left behind on an Earth ruined after a war between man & alien invaders. It's his job to repair the battle drones used to hunt down the remnants of the alien invaders, but when he comes across another survivor who he has dreamt about, he begins to question his reality.

  • While the story doesn't quite have the same oomph after you know it's twist, it's still an interesting premise, and the ending is satisfying every time.
  • It's an absolutely stunning looking film. The Sci-Fi tech has really slick designs (even if the CG is starting to show it's age in spots), and the wide, naturalistic environment shots are gorgeous.
  • The action has a real oomph to it. I enjoy the dogfight with the drones every time, the fight at the base during the climax is intense.

Overall, while it's probably not a must watch sci-fi film, it is one I like going back to from time to time.

With that, I've finished up my first batch of Blu-Rays, and have just placed the order for my next:

  • Alien - I've seen this in parts before on TV, and while I get into it each time, I've never had the chance to finish it before, so I figure it's time to change that.
  • Godzilla 1984/5 - My Japan related film in this batch. They either didn't have the other Japanese films I was looking for, or they were more expensive than I was looking for, so I settled for this. I remember my brother used to have this on Video Brick (yes, I know that's not what they're called, lol), so it'll be a bit of a nostalgia trip.
  • National Lampoon's European Vacation - I know this is the black sheep of the original Vacation films, but I still enjoy it from time to time.
  • Octopussy - The next Bond film in line. I think I enjoyed For Your Eyes Only the most out of my last batch of films, so I'm looking forward to this.

Currently Playing:
Switch - NSMBU Deluxe
PS4 - Moss

JohnnyShoulder

@Th3solution Apparently TV edits are done by the film studio and not the TV/Cable stations. I assume it is done at certification, when they edit the film for home viewing.

We are now in a world of people being offended for other people who they think should be offended, who arent offended.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

RogerRoger

With a couple completely spare days, and since I'm playing one of the spin-off games at the moment, I've decided to finally re-visit the Indiana Jones films.

Raiders of the Lost Ark was always my least favourite of the four. That isn't to call it anything but a beautifully-made, brilliantly-acted, inventive and exciting thrill ride, one that I like a little more each time I watch it; I just happen to prefer elements in the others, s'all.

I don't buy the whole "Indy's part in the film is pointless" argument that often does the rounds. First of all, we're showing up for a pulp adventure and therefore we need a hero to follow along; a hero who makes mistakes, takes a tumble and is shown injured was kinda the intent of George Lucas and Steven Spielberg, who were frustrated with James Bond's unflappable, never-a-hair-out-of-place derring-do. More importantly, however, the ending helps sell a plot point that has become increasingly popular in recent years, namely the one about the "good guy" government (in this case, the US Army) being short-sighted and clandestine about the Ark's power. We're presented with a brief epilogue in which Indy and Marcus berate them for not studying it, and I guess we're supposed to side with our hero in his objections, but I've always been torn on that point. If I had the Ark, considering all those faces it melted, I think I might hide it away in a box marked "classified" as well... but I respect the film for sounding that final, now-famous and oft-imitated note.

I think this is part of the reason I slightly prefer Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, though. Despite criticism that it's too dark in places, this prequel shows us a hero being genuinely heroic, rather than just opportunistic and accidentally heroic along the way. There's a real sense that, as soon as Indy is told of the missing children, he's out to save them. Oh sure, there's some lip-service to the "fortune and glory" angle of Indy's character, but it's used more as a call-and-response tagline than a defining analysis; he seems reluctant to acknowledge it, grudgingly shrugging it off most of the time. I never believe that he might keep the Shivalinga, not once. He's definitely out to topple the evil Thuggee cult, rescue the innocent and return what was stolen to the village.

In comparison, all throughout Raiders, Indy's giddy obsession to be the one to find the Ark, his desire to beat his professional nemesis Belloq and his romantic feelings for Marion all seem to be greater, or more important to him, than stopping a potential Nazi power grab. You could argue that in witnessing the power of the Ark, Indy becomes a "true believer" and shifts his position slightly, but that would ignore his experience shown in Temple of Doom which is, again, a prequel.

These thoughts are why I have more fun watching Temple of Doom because sure, there's a half-hour in the middle which is really quite dark (darker than I remember, as I watched an edited-for-broadcast version as a kid and so the gore and language retained on the Blu-Ray often catches me by surprise) but it's bookended by joyful, laugh-a-minute comic book action sequences. And it opens with a dance number, for goodness sake! The entirety of Club Obi-Wan and Short Round's introduction is excellent nonsense, and Lao Che's name on the plane door is a perfect rug-pulling payoff... and I may have seen Indy liberate the slave children half-a-dozen times before, but I still smile, gasp and squirm throughout that entire mine fight. It's loaded with sight gags, the violence is well-earned (they were enslaving kids, c'mon) and its hopeful, celebratory tone is an antithetical cure-all for anybody dragged down into darkness by the preceding scenes.

Which, let's be honest, weren't actually that dark. Indy getting drugged by a cult who burn people alive might be a little grim, but it's on a far more straightforward, goodie-versus-baddie level than Indy thinking he killed Marion (a girl he took advantage of whilst she was underage) and attacking Belloq in a vow of murder-suicide. Am I overthinking that last bit? Perhaps, but then that's a by-product of watching these classic films so often, and it's a testament to their quality that I'm still find these layers.

And I don't wanna sound overly critical of Raiders, because I genuinely adore it. There's no such thing as a "bad" Indiana Jones film, and many of the elements of my favourite (The Last Crusade, which I'll be watching tomorrow) were born in that original adventure.

Maybe it's just because I hate spiders. Don't mind the exotic bugs in Temple of Doom, don't mind rats, don't mind "big damn ants" and don't mind snakes, but I always have to close my eyes when Indy and Satipo enter the fertility idol temple and walk into those cobwebs. Nope. Nope nope nope. That'd be me done, right there. Stuff your fortune and glory, mate. I'm out.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Jaz007

Well I just learned the next Suicide Squad is rebooting it already. Screw you DC. I liked the first one and don’t care to see one of the most unnecessary reboots ever made. They really need to get their act together and keep a decent plan for the DC movie universe. They have a decent, weakened with Justice League, and now they’re just forgetting about it. The first Suicide Squad did a really good job of keeping up n the movie universe too while telling it’s own story.

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

Frigate

Watched Demolition Man across 3 evening's (Monday to Friday my job is all consuming). Still just as high-octane and action packed as it was back in 1993.

Also fascinating to see how much of the perceived 2032 year has become reality in just 2019. Really fun movie.

Frigate

LN78

@RogerRoger Whilst there remains lingering debate about which of the original trilogy is best (there shouldn't be because it's "Raiders" by a distance) I don't think I'm courting controversy here by stating that there very much IS such a thing as a "bad" Indiana Jones film. The fourth one was such a misconceived notion (as these "legacy sequels" tend to be) that even Spielberg(who correctly resisted the idea for years) had to have his arm twisted to get him involved and by all accounts is making the new film (without Lucas' involvement, thank goodness) as something of an apology to the fans (and to Disney after the chronic underperformance of "The BFG" by the way) which represents a concession that the ball was resoundingly dropped with "Crystal Skull." It is championship level dreadful for a whole litany of reasons, so much so that "nuking the fridge" has replaced "jumping the shark" in the pop culture parlance to describe the moment when credulity (and suspension of disbelief) is stretched to breaking point. You preferring it to "Raiders" (which is my favourite by country mile) is just another thing for me to add to the seemingly never ending "RogerRoger's Bizarre Movie Opinions" list.
PS My compliments on your fantastic assessment of "Temple of Doom" sir. Interestingly, Indy's self aggrandising avarice (that you correctly observed was slightly unbelievable) was actually part of the initial conception of the character that was later dropped. In that incarnation Indy's perilous treasure hunting antics were undertaken to fund an expensive "champagne and nightclubs" playboy lifestyle. In any case, I think ToD is the second best in the series. Inventiveness used to count for something when making movie sequels,it seems.

Edited on by LN78

LN78

PSN: Lanooch

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