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Topic: The Chit Chat Thread

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Rudy_Manchego

@LieutenantFatman Agreed and I think Nintendo and Sony are just two very different organisations with a different approach to gaming.

Nintendo do rely an awful lot on nostalgia and that sense of identification that its fans have with its games. There is an evolution of gamers that grew up, whatever their age, on Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Smash Bros etc. They tend to release 1, maybe 2 of these franchises a generation which builds up hype and furthers that nostalgia. This isn't a bad thing, it has produced some amazing games and does make these releases something closer to an event.

Sony on the other hand do have repeated franchises, but it is rare for them to go across generations and if they do, not to have major revisions. I can think of say Killzone and God of War maybe. Everybody's Golf I guess. I mean, think of the new possible franchises in this generation alone - Bloodborne, Until Dawn, HZD, Days Gone, The Order 1886, Nioh etc. I know some of these will no doubt get sequels but I would doubt, to be honest, there will end up being a new HZD game every generation forever.

I feel because there is not necessarily that constant nostalgia factor, people don't identify quite as strongly with Sony franchises as others.

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

PSN: Rudy_Manchego | Twitter:

Th3solution

@LieutenantFatman @themcnoisy I’m a little late on the comment, but in regards to the Detroit [quite brief] domestic violence interaction, I’m certainly not one to judge and I thoroughly respect the opinions and preferences of you all, my friends and comrades, but I honestly didn’t find the scene and interaction to be any more disturbing than a lot of other video game conflicts. Todd is a horrible human being, to be sure. But you can pretty quickly make decisions to defend yourself and Alice and depending on how you play, I recall the whole thing is brought to a just conclusion pretty quickly with that loser Todd. I was way more uncomfortable with things like, for example, the scene/interaction in The Last of Us where Ellie, a minor, is attacked and it’s implied like the dude (I forget his name) was moving toward nefarious things with her. Again, justice gratefully prevailed fairly quickly there too, as I recall (it’s been a long time since I played that). So long as games depict perpetrators to be meted some kind of justice or at least shown not to prevail, then the subject matter can be tolerable. And if they keep it brief; I certainly wouldn’t want a game to linger on the subject matter.

It’s a fine line, and we all get a little uncomfortable when violence against defenseless women and children are involved; rightfully so. Games may continue to use the tactic of violence to minors and the disabled to bring strong emotional responses from gamers though, because it stirs fierce motivations to exact revenge.

By no means am I suggesting you have to play or like Detroit, but personally I felt the scene, although uncomfortable, wasn’t in poor taste, at least any more so than other games. It is a fine line, I’ll admit, since this was a depiction of a father being the abuser. Any game that glorifies such activities would most definitely go on my “never play” list. It’s also why I nearly always play the virtuous hero role when given the options, even when being the villain or criminal is offered (a la RDR2, Infamous, etc.). I like to protect the defenseless, and bring down the reprobate, personally.

I look to TLoU2 to have some really uncomfortable interactions, and it is part of what has been hesitant to commit to it too. I get the feeling that moral and ethical dilemma is going to be a strong theme throughout. So I’m of two minds, I guess. 😅

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

themcnoisy

@Th3solution I completed Detroit a couple of weeks ago.

There is a reason kids are not in GTA V or the majority of games until recently. Also a lot of media has become a lot darker and infatuated with the worst sides of humanity. The comic code authority was ditched years ago and guidelines on TV have been ditched as the spectre of WW2 is fading. No need to make people happy anymore in the pursuit of Art!

Domestic violence is uncomfortable, the way Todd breaks down in the game. He's a shadow of a real bloke - blaming everyone in his immediate family for his own despair. Which he then takes out on Alice. Its really pathetic and Detroit portrays humans, all pretty much all men as abusive.

The writing and acting is top notch. I would have preferred a few more scenes of generally nice people without the twisted personalities. It's one sided and isn't fair, as one of the first games I know that tackles this real world issue, would have preferred more balance.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
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Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

LieutenantFatman

@Th3solution
Yes, fair enough if a developer wants to tackle a sensitive issue in a game and they do so with tact. I think for many creators, they lack the skills to do that well. If anyone can pull it off, its probably Naughty Dog, but I do hope they remember to keep the game fun as well and it's not a piece of pure misery. I know TLOU is meant to be a grim universe but they still need hope.

LieutenantFatman

Th3solution

@themcnoisy I absolutely agree that we need a little more balance in general with the depictions of “good” and “bad” people. The phenomenon spills over into television, movies and other media. The bumbling idiot man stereotype grows a little old as far as I’m concerned. Diversity goes both ways. Perhaps I’m a little overly sensitive, being a bumbling idiot of a man and all.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

jdv95

it's just a shame that TLOU 2 gets hate not because it has violence and dark themes,but because the themes and violence have some LGBT stuff going on.

it's painfull to say this but if the protag was still a man and the dark themes would have nothing to do with LGBT stuff,those very same people would not even say a word.

even on this site i saw a member saying that it is bad/stupid to add political messages into games.

but you can bet that if TLOU2 was about specific MANhood problems without a gay protagonist,those people would applaud ND for showcasing that and having that message be told in favour of their own little conservative bubble. it's not that ND hate white straight men or something. every character in TLOU universe has their dark sides and good sides (exept david but he's a pedo so ***** him) no matter gender and orientation.

i mean just remember how those people reacted when that e3 trailer came out with that kiss. the riots already began than.

Edited on by antdickens

jdv95

nessisonett

@jdv95 That’s just how these ones work, they’ve been waiting to hate on ND ever since Drake had a daughter instead of a son. According to them Neil ‘Cuckmann’ changed Drake’s son to a daughter against the wishes of Amy Hennig because of his influence from Anita Sarkeesian. I don’t think they realise how silly they sound.

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

jdv95

@nessisonett oh my god.

i would have been ok with the critisms of the game if they where not LGBT related.

but it's the fact that the people are attacking those themes the most is what sets me off.

sure you have some people saying that some are complaining about other stuff but the problem is that all the haters with "influence" AKA the youtubers are only targeting the LGBT stuff and nothing else.

it's like when IGN gave that awfull days gone review a bad score just because deacon is a white man. everybody called them out and rightfully so i did to,but ofcourse it's those same people now ***** on ND and TLOU because ellie is a lesbian with a girlfriend or atleast love interest. and according to them that is just pushing an agenda? if nothing else it's the haters pushing their anti LGBT agenda on the internet. some of the stuff they say is bordering on actuall cyber hate crime levels.

not to mention that some of their followers only agree with them because they are their favourite youtubers. disgusting at the highest level.

i know i keep rambling on about the issue so again i apologise for that.

Edited on by antdickens

jdv95

LieutenantFatman

@jdv95
No need to apologise, you make some important points. And the more people who stand up and challenge those who try to spread hate & discrimination, the better.

LieutenantFatman

nessisonett

@jdv95 The more people point out these ones’ hypocrisies, the better. I think the problem with the gaming industry is that the devs are clearly trying to move into the 21st century while a lot of the fans (or a loud minority) are firmly rooted in attitudes that are quickly being seen as just not on. For as much as they moan about ‘cancel culture’ and the like, they’re very quick to turn on devs that don’t agree with their limited viewpoints and boycott their products. It’s not like I don’t admit that there’s bad elements on the ‘SJW’ side, there are definitely people who use that cause to further their own agenda, same as literally every movement ever. The ironic thing is that if the toxic ones stopped calling women ‘females’ and ‘thots’ and started treating them like actual human beings, they would probably be more fulfilled in life and there would be a whole lot less incels. The same applies to ones who see LGBT themes as an affront, I knew plenty people who were idiots when they were younger and spouted homophobic trash but are now good friends. Attitudes can change upon exposure to media that drives a deep personal message and I hope TLOU2 manages that if these ‘fans’ give it a chance.

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

Black_Swordsman

I've been listening to a lot of field recordings and leftfield recordings recently, Chris Watson, Lingua Ignota etc., I was wondering if any of you could recommend a good field recording artist or leftfield musician? When I haven't been doing that, I've been gaming or focusing on drafting a PhD proposal, centering around the SoulsBorne games, great fun so far, but a bit of a hard slog.

Edited on by Black_Swordsman

"Man is the pie that bakes and eats himself, and the recipe is separation." - Alasdair Gray

PSN: Draco_V_Ecliptic

nessisonett

@Draco_V_Ecliptic Lingua Ignota’s basically just Neoclassical Darkwave so I’d recommend Anna Von Hausswolff. In terms of field recordings/musique concrète, anything by Michael Pisaro, The Caretaker etc is worth a listen. You could also go down the Electroacoustic or Drone routes so Tim Hecker’s a great start and other classic albums like The Tired Sounds Of by Stars of the Lid, Pop by GAS, Replica by Oneohtrix Point Never and The Disintegration Loops by William Basinski will take you in different directions.

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

JohnnyShoulder

@Arugula Enjoy! What gaming do you have planned?

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

jdv95

playing WD2.

it's a fun gamen,better than the first for sure. SF is just a more appealing setting than chicago.

i heard some people on here in the past saying how they don't like the characters but i enjoy them in a way. sure the cast is a bit goofy and sometimes feels like adults trying to blend in as teens etc but they all have something that makes them fun to have around. wrench is my favourite so far. but tbh i only bought it to pass the time between now and TLOU2. but it's a happy purchase for sure though.

jdv95

JohnnyShoulder

@Arugula I hear ya, just play what you feel like at the time.

I'm almost done with Control and i have no idea what I'm gonna play next. Maybe something light and fluffy, it is quite an assault on the senses at times.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

nessisonett

Lol, I saw Anita Sarkeesian’s name front and centre in the credits of Hyper Light Drifter. While I doubt many of the Naughty Dog detractees play games like HLD, it does prove that it’s not exactly going to ruin the game for all ‘true gamers’ that she’s seemingly involved with TLOU2 because Hyper Light Drifter was brilliant.

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

jdv95

@nessisonett let me guess,hyper light never got the negativity of those people that TLOU gets despite anita being involved?

sure it's a smaller game but still,would again show the hypocrisy those people have. i guess TLOU is just an easy target because it's an exclusive and high profile.

they so want to push their own biggot agenda (see the irony?) but only do so by picking and choosing. i guess hating on a smaller game does not get them the views. (which it is all about in the end)

jdv95

nessisonett

@jdv95 A quick Google of ‘Hyper Light Drifter Anita Sarkeesian’ reveals some... interesting viewpoints. Zoe Quinn’s also credited in the Special Thanks, same as Kanye West. It’s kinda hilarious how these ones go on and on and on about leftie SJW snowflakes being offended over nothing... while boycotting a game because someone’s credited in the special thanks section. There was a big stink about Celeste/Towerfall as well because surprise surprise, indie devs are far more likely to be young and accepting and less likely to care about sacrificing their vision for the sake of an extra few bucks from w*nkers. And then there’s the Ion Fury review on NLife with 100+ comments, mostly attacking the literal editor in chief of NLife, that proves that humanity isn’t ready for the Internet (for once I stayed away, pretty proud of myself ngl).

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

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