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Topic: The Chit Chat Thread

Posts 2,321 to 2,340 of 10,050

Thrillho

@AdamNovice I have to say I've never really been one for commenting on articles that much but you're not the first to have said that in the forum sadly.

Thrillho

JohnnyShoulder

@AdamNovice From what i saw in the State of Play article, it wasn't even that bad imo. Just people voicing their opinions, both positively and negatively. Just because you don't agree with them, just give you the right to then go on the defensive and get on their case. You seem to do a lot of that, almost whenever someone makes a negative comment towards Sony.

I'm not having a go or anything, this is just something I've noticed. I dunno, maybe you just need to take a break and chill out or something.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

AdamNovice

@JohnnyShoulder If I feel their opinion is wrong or unfounded in truth I will speak up about it and I'm not sorry for it and I've never been pulled up for it by the staff either. Besides I'm not the only one who's had this concern of late so I feel I have to say something.

AdamNovice

Twitter:

themcnoisy

@JohnnyShoulder The problem isn't necessarily the negative or positive to and fro in these article comments.

It's the crazies who use commonly used troll sentences and pseudo point making. This is like a stick and they poke until everything turns into a mess. It's difficult to describe but I'm finding myself having to answer these people to defend the integrity of the everyday users.

Sony has got a lot wrong this past year. A lot. But some of the censorship stuff and cross play outrage is just a nonesense to most power users of this site. It's a none issue.

The decrease in psplus games, the lack of E3 this year, turning off servers of current gen games. You know imo that's fair game and we should call them out.

But it's a similar attitude in all of the comments sections. I am considering just reading the articles and not commenting at all for a while. Continuing to use the forums more regularly instead.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

JohnnyShoulder

Hmmmm, still don't that being that defensive over it is not the best thing to do. I'm not defending the genuine trolls. If they are that bad report them and let the mods deal with it. Replying to them and calling them out over having an opinion just because you don't agree with it is not great, and could be considered as baiting them into saying something they shouldn't. I know if i had been on the receiving end of some of @AdamNovice comments I would not have liked it.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

Th3solution

@AdamNovice I see a little of where you’re coming from, but I’m hoping that it’s probably just one of those things that runs in cycles. It’s the end of a console generation and things in the industry seem to be coming to a fever pitch with everyone positioning themselves. The nearly unprecedented popularity and success of PlayStation has brought more eyes on the brand and the issues surrounding it than ever before. With added volume and success comes critics.

Push Square is in a difficult situation in that with each controversy people create, they are left the quandary of how to present things. I’ve been a fan of the Soapbox articles because I usually enjoy stimulating opinion pieces. Some fantastic commentary on things such as video games as an art form, and the value of different playstyles for example. I think it’s really the very definition of a ‘soapbox’ is to get on it and offer an opinion the masses may or may not like. It’s a wonderful idea. In fact the internet support of Gravity Rush 2 players making comments did seem to actually motivate Sony to delay cutting the servers by several months due to the backlash. I wouldn’t be surprised if articles like Sammy’s might give them pause.

Nevertheless, I do agree that the comments section can become ridiculous. I’m certainly not condoning the asinine trolls that I see pop in on most of these controversial articles. I tend to not comment on articles where I feel like I’ll be attacked and dragged into a mud flinging fest. Certainly a respectful expression of dissent is a welcome thing and I have learned much from opinions that differ from my own. Unfortunately there is no maturity filter on the internet, and we get what seems like 8 year-olds posting their troll comments at times. I glaze by those and usually just focus on the comments by the long-time users.

Hang in there man. I think it will get better. Once PS5 is announced and the last 4 or 5 big hits of this generation come out, a lot of these issues will die off, I think. When The Last of Us 2 releases, people will drop by in droves to praise the quality of Sony exclusives and content and the DriveClub debacle will have been long forgotten. And like @themcnoisy said, until then, the forums is a better safe haven for discussion than the comments sections. 😋

Edited on by Th3solution

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

DerMeister

@AdamNovice I've been fed up with it since the crossplay stuff. It's like people have forgotten how to have a civil discussion even if you don't agree. It's just one extreme or another.

I like to think it's obvious if a comment or critique is in good nature, and not troll shenanigans, but things have gotten to the point where I'm reluctant to comment even if I have a point I want to make, just to avoid dealing with pointless squabble. If I'm alright with Sony, I'm just another fanboy on here. if I critique Sony, I must be a troll, despite my 5 year tenure on the site. I don't even care if people agree with me, sometimes I just want to discuss or understand a topic better, but I'm convinced discussion is irrelevant, because even if it's not brought up, it's always about the trolls in the comments. "Bet the trolls are loving this", etc. If it's not worth a mention, don't mention it, yeah?

We can't have articles discussing Sony without overblown responses. Even if I understand the points they make, I thought it was absolutely silly to see people saying they won't buy a PS5 just because Detroit is on PC. And while I understand some points Sammy was making in the Driveclub soapbox (You can't have server shutdowns frequently in a digital future, why pay for PS+ if the games aren't worth it and servers die too quickly), I can't fully agree with it, because I also understand the business reason, even if it does suck. It just seems like another impulse reaction, but most of the comments, especially with the most likes, are one sided about it.

Even if we have differing opinions, we need level-headed discussions, not this. We should have our critiques and praises for Sony without getting our heads bitten off.

Edited on by DerMeister

"We don't get to choose how we start in this life. Real 'greatness' is what you do with the hand you're dealt." -Victor Sullivan
"Building the future and keeping the past alive are one and the same thing." -Solid Snake

PSN: HeartBreakJake95

Tasuki

@DerMeister The problem itself isn't the site, it's the internet in general. Since people can hide behind a screen they know they can do anything and say anything without really getting in trouble. Honestly the internet has just brought the worst out in people. It's why I avoid sites like Facebook and other social media sites.

I agree with you that I would love to have a civil discussion about topics and such but nowadays it's just impossible on the internet.

RetiredPush Square Moderator and all around retro gamer.

My Backlog

PSN: Tasuki3711

crimsontadpoles

I think this site gets the balance mostly correct. Sony can do things that people don't like, and it's fine to voice your disagreements. There's the occasional troll and fanboy on both sides causing trouble, but the conversations are usually calm and respectful here.

Articles such as that Driveclub article or the ones on censorship are fine. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with them or think that they're fake outrage, they're clearly big enough issues for enough people to justify writing articles about them.

themcnoisy

@Tasuki Good for you to get involved Taz. It must be a graft to keep things in check.

There was a crazy comment directed straight at Sammy just today. I know he can defend himself and answered the comment with a 'thanks for reading' but the initial comment was pretty horrible. He shouldn't even acknowledge crap like that imo and the user and comment should be banned without question.

This all started getting worse when the positive likes button was added. And got worse still once the dislike button has been added.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

Octane

The situation is never as black and white as we want it to be, and many people have different opinions for different reasons. However, I think the most important thing is that we're allowed to have these different opinions.

I personally think it's fair to be critical of Sony; of any company really. Because (constructive) criticism can be used to improve something, rather than let it run its course and hope for the best. Of course, there's always a troll or two who have to ruin it for the rest, but that doesn't mean every complaint is just a troll post.

Crossplay? I understand the business decisions why Sony don't want to cooperate, but at the same time they can't stay behind, whether they like it or not. Yet at the same time it's something I don't really care about because I don't play that much online to begin with, and most games wouldn't even make use of it.

Censorship? There's always a fine line between what should be allowed and what not; and even that's up for discussion I think. But censoring a bum, whilst allowing Mortal Kombat is a bit hypocritical. At the same time it's not the end of the world, but it's a bit silly they're doing it in the first place, isn't it?

Regardless of what you thought of State of Play; whilst I think it was ''fine'', I do think that a ''focus on PSVR content'' warning would've helped a lot. It's something for Sony to keep in mind when doing another State of Play. At the same time it's not too unreasonable to think that people had some expectations. They've been keeping silent for a while, they cancelled E3, and this was their first big showing in while.

Is it the end of Sony? Of course not. But that's the thing with opinions, not everyone agrees. And that's completely fine, and as long as we can have a civil discussion about it I don't see the problem!

Also, Knack is the best and the PS Classic is absolutely rubbish. And I'm writing this at 3am after way too many beers; so don't take any of this too seriously.

Octane

Tasuki

@themcnoisy I agree with you on the like/dislike button which is why I was against them since day one. Every site I know of that has them the comments have been nothing but trouble. But in the end its Sammy's and Ants site so it's up to them. I understand that alot of sites have them but just cause they jump off the Brooklyn Bridge do you?

RetiredPush Square Moderator and all around retro gamer.

My Backlog

PSN: Tasuki3711

Fight_Teza_Fight

@Th3solution I think they had some sort of twitter exchange. Pretty neat to hear though & he said some nice things about PushSquare.
How do you enjoy Knockback? I haven't gave it a listen yet. Outside of gaming, I'm not really into nerd culture.
Besides that I'm already drowning in other podcasts 😅. Got 6 episodes of Fireside chat to catch up on, on top of other podcasts. Won't be long till my podcast backlog is bigger than my gaming one!


I personally just keep away from the 'controversial' articles now, mostly due to the comments.
They attract both sides of the extreme & more often than not my opinion falls somewhere in the middle or I simply don't care.
Nevertheless it's frustrating to see people attack each other.

Edited on by Fight_Teza_Fight

Lives, Lived, Will Live.
Dies, Died, Will Die.
If we could perceive time for what it really was,
What reason would Grammar Professors have to get out of bed?- Robert & Rosalind Lutece

JohnnyShoulder

Not sure if like/dislike has anything to do with it, there were trolls before and you will still get them if they were removed. It is probably more due to the increased popularity of the site. I mean I don't read a lot of the comments so maybe I'm not best placed to say, but compared to others sites I don't think this one is has a lot of trolls. The good comments usually far out weigh those imo. Yes your are goona get them, especially on an opinion piece. Unfortunately that is the internet these days, it is just not unique to this site.

Life is more fun when you help people succeed, instead of wishing them to fail.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

themcnoisy

@Octane what you have written is totally coherent and fair though.

And that just illustrates the point that where as we all can have a coherent discussion on both sides of the arguments here. In the article comments it's impossible with someone point scoring for likes.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

Th3solution

@Fight_Sora_Fight I actually really enjoy the episodes of Knockback that I’ve listened to. Dagan, his brother is actually a really interesting guy, an older brother who is an artist, and brings a different style but yet very much a good synergy with Colin, since they share common experience. Dagan is a more calm and mature personality, also is obviously very bright and well spoken. Very different from Chris, because he is not an entertainer, but is very comfortable in front of the mic though. The episodes are longer and much more relaxed, vs Sacred Symbols where Colin is always on a time crunch and things are pretty rapid fire. They will hit one subject for usually close to 2 hours, so I like the in depth discussion.

The first I tried was the episode on Metal Gear Solid. Not the series, mind you, but the PS1 game MGS. The whole discussion was that one single game and how great it is, and an in depth analysis of their memories of it and why it’s great. It was very enjoyable.
The next one I tried was the one on Calvin and Hobbes. If you’ve read the comic then it might be interesting. I love Calvin and Hobbes so I found it fascinating as Bill Watterson is such an eccentric genius and the story of how he just walked away from the successful series and potential goldmine is baffling. Dagan had a lot of insight into him, being an artist himself.

Then I was hooked so went on to listen to the episodes on The Return of the Jedi, The Empire Strikes Back, The Indiana Jones trilogy, The Dark Knight Trilogy, and they recently did an episode on the original Bioshock that I’ll definitely check out. There’s a lot of the episodes I’ll skip, like the ones about them reminiscing on childhood pets for example. There are several related to retro Nintendo subjects like the early Mario and Zelda games, and there is a whole episode on the original PlayStation which might be good to hear. It’s definitely something to more pick-and-choose what subjects are of interest to you personally.

Edited on by Th3solution

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

jdv95

i just don't read overly negative sony articles anymore.

not because i can't handle it but because most negative sony articles are just blown out of proportion.

that does not mean that you are not allowed to post a vallid critic ofcourse,aslong as it is in a calm and civil manner. and not keep on repeating it in every other sony article.

i have my own not so positive opinion on that first state of play vid but i said it in a calm manner without repeating it over and over again.

but the thing is that there are just so many people and always the same users on here that use the arrogant sony card that you just know that they are trolling or are "anti sony" by default,making a normal civil and logical discussion impossible with those people. and that is the problem with the negative opnions on here.

it's fine to have different opinions,that is only natural,but the usual trolls and people that tend to react over the top is what makes those negative sony articles just anoying to be around.

like that article about detroit going to pc,there are so many comments on there that are just childish some of them even wanting shawn layden gone... like c'mon,i get that it is bad news i also felt bad but saying things like "sony is loosing it" and "since shawn got promoted evertyhing went bad he needs to go" is just over the top dramatic. chances are that sony had no real other choice but to allow it to go to pc since quantic are now mulitplat devs,yet people still act as if sony is giving away all their exclusives. even on new articles that is still being repeated...

it's in those moments that those people seem to forget all the great stuff sony has done and only take hold on the bad stuff they have done. not that the usual suspects even know of all the good stuff they have done since most of them most likely are not even PS owners to begin with.

also a note to adam:why not just ignore those usual suspects such as IBeAGamer? that guy just feeds on negative feedback and by ingoring him and people like that you will make this place a whole lot cleaner and calm. note that you should not put every person that has a different opinion on ignore but just the obvious trolls and people that always have negative comments.

just 1 more side note to everyone and myself:i also don't like the comments that dismiss actuall constructive crtitism as being a hater,that should also be done with,altough this happens a whole lot more on other sites than this one. but still a good point to remember as it discourages constructive and civil criticism.

Edited on by jdv95

jdv95

kyleforrester87

@Frigate nice, you using Strava?

I haven’t ridden for a week, longest gap since I started last summer, going to give it another week and see how my knee responds...!

Edited on by kyleforrester87

kyleforrester87

PSN: WigSplitter1987

BAMozzy

@AdamNovice I do agree with you. I too can be quite forthright in my beliefs, my opinions and have often been called a troll or a fanboy - even though I do own multiple consoles and don't really care too much what 'name' is on the box - as long as it lets me play the games I want, at the best quality possible and, if applicable, with the friends/family I want to.

There is nothing wrong with stating your opinion, even having your own opinion even if it differs from the majority. There is nothing wrong with being able to criticise anything Sony does either - regardless of whether that upsets the fan boys or ends up with you being called a troll. There is nothing wrong with Push Square calling Sony out on certain things - even if you don't agree. For example, whether you agree or not with Cross-play between ALL gamers regardless of Platform or think Sony should remain 'locked' to just Sony gamers - there are Pro's and Con's to both options and if you tend to think the Con's outweigh the Pro's, then fair enough - others may think the Pro's outweigh the Con's and that's fair enough too.

I quite enjoy having a discussion with opposing views being aired, as long as its conducted in a respectful manner. Its possible that one or two aspects I had not considered could change, or at least make me more aware of why someone has the opinion they do.

What I have come to realise though that some discussions are not a two-way thing, that the other person either isn't hearing what you have to say, doesn't care either and just want to argue. Its those that you must learn to let them have the last word - and the sooner you can do that, the sooner the 'conversation' ends. If they have 'nothing' to respond to, nothing to argue against, no reason to get even more angry and devolve into a 'slanging' match which can also make you equally as culpable, the better.

In any community, there are 'good', 'bad' and everything in between people. Even in communities like Push Square where you think everyone must have a shared interest in Playstation and 'Gaming' in general, there will be a whole range of people. Some may well be in the camp that Sony can do wrong, and some of those will no doubt spin that to attack MS or Nintendo rather than keep the conversation purely Sony based - which no doubt annoys/angers people that may also game on these devices - a pointless jab at MS in an article that is all about Sony and praising something that Sony have got right for example.

I must admit, I don't always agree with 'Opinion' pieces - even if the intention was good (the recent one regarding Crackdown 3 is a good example - a Sony site calling out MS on a mess of a game that was conceived originally when MS were at their messiest) but I do understand the intention. Regardless of whether I agree with the article or not, my biggest concern about it was the comments section, not the article, not the writer but what that article could lead to. Therefore I do understand you Point of View, that its not necessarily the articles, but the community response - some articles are (or at least are perceived to be) 'magnets' for the trolls and/or fanboys to congregate and do battle over.

I may comment in these and, if anyone replies after I have aired my opinion/comment, depending on who, what is said etc, I may respond but sometimes its better to let them have the last word, whether you agree or not. You are not going to 'educate' them, not going to change their opinion, not even likely to have your opinion 'respected', its only going to degenerate into a slanging match.

I know in the past, I have let these people get to me, felt compelled to retaliate, to respond etc but I (try to) remember that you should Never argue with idiots, they only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience! If you feel you 'need' to respond to any comment - whether that's you initiating the dialogue in response to a comment, or its a response to their reply on your comment, don't let it go beyond 1 or two replies. You can often get an idea of whether they are 'idiots', trolls, fanboys etc so think of the statement above - never argue with them!! Also, by arguing you are feeding them, giving them the 'ammunition' to fire back, given them more wood to chuck on the fire etc and you don't want to be dragged down to their level - they are more experienced at being an idiot, troll, fanboy etc. If you can learn to let them have the last say, then they have no more fuel to respond and will die off - at least from annoying you - maybe try and pick another target...

There are many, many great people here. This is also one of the best online communities in video gaming. There are a LOT more toxic communities - especially those that are not focussed on one specific platform and virtually every comments section, there is a 'battle' raging over platforms, franchises etc - you name it, there are people arguing over it...

If you need to take a break, need to avoid the article comments section, that is totally understandable. Sometimes its best to avoid - especially if your 'mood' isn't up to it. You don't have to read every article so be selective if necessary - avoid ones that you think may well be contentious, ones that may divide or anger the community. Sony closing down online access for AAA games on their current platform is certainly going to anger people - maybe even more so when MS are adding OG Xbox games (like the original SW:BF2) to BC that are fully functional online. That's bound to anger people and so will have a lot more 'angry' people in the comments section so maybe something to avoid until you are 'ready' or can happily have your say and 'ignore' any replies that look like they may lead to a slanging match - let them have their say, you don't need to respond and reiterate your opinion like throwing another log on the fire to keep the flame burning...

Its impossible to agree with everybody and the more a site grows, the more likely that bad, as well as 'good' or those that share your opinion and those that don't. Its inevitable - just like a 'big' city, with many more people in it, will have a higher number of 'bad' people compared to a small village. Learning to keep away from them, not engage with them - even if they try to initiate an argument - pick your 'battles' so to speak - is the thing to do. It may not be easy to bite your tongue, so avoid the comments section on articles that you may feel strongly about and/or more likely to have angry or 'passionate' people in...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

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