Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

@RogerRoger i was dumb and forgot to save and i died so i have to do the entire level again

@FullbringIchigo Same. It gave me false security with that early landing pad checkpoint!

TRUTH

@FullbringIchigo Also in truth - I don't know many who don't (or didn't if we're talking about the current state of each) actually like both.

Rock & roll can't be rock & roll without a classical contrast m/

@FullbringIchigo Preach.

And what an awesome photo; I'd never seen that before!

Kirk beat the T-Rex (given his track record with the Gorn, it's no surprise) and so I've started re-watching the six original Star Trek films. Jurassic Park can wait. I'm gonna leave my thoughts in here, to avoid gumming up everybody else's movie talk with my mini-essays.

Two down, four to go. Given that Star Trek: The Motion Picture kinda exists in a brief standalone vacuum, because Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan comes along and basically reboots everything again, spitefully wiping clean its character and story progression, I tend not to watch them in such quick succession any more. I'm either in the mood for proper Star Trek, or I'm in the mood for a thematically-confused action flick in space; going from one to the other in twenty-four hours seriously damages my tolerance for the sequel.

Which isn't to call The Wrath of Khan a bad film in any way; it's a skillful, brilliantly-acted revenge drama played out on a grand scale... but just like The Empire Strikes Back is a two-hour movie about a two-minute plot twist, Khan suffers from the death of Spock being such a "big deal" and therefore the entire adventure's accompanying tone being morose, bleak and foreboding enough to sell it. This is especially reflected in Kirk's awkward character arc. He's having a mid-life crisis after being stuck behind a desk for too long, a ruthless enemy has returned from exile and kicked his butt, and he's presented with a grown-up son he knew about, but had been asked to stay away from. All of this makes him feel old, run down and useless and then, atop all this, his best friend sacrifices himself to save the ship and... wait, now he's smiling on the bridge, saying he feels young again? Are you kidding me? Since when did Kirk become such a masochist?

Compare to The Motion Picture, which likewise starts with Kirk the desk-jockey realising that he wants back on the bridge of the Enterprise. Instead of letting things just happen at him, he does something about it, seizing the opportunity when Starfleet call upon his experience to deal with the looming threat of V'Ger. This causes some friction with his friends and colleagues, but together they put aside their differences to peacefully explore V'Ger, to learn and to grow and to ultimately out-think a living machine, helping it evolve beyond its limitations. Kirk is the champion of risk, reflecting his "Risk is our business!" speech from the original series; the whole thing hinges on the amazing moment when he asks a cautious Will Decker "How do you define unwarranted?" before flying head-long into the V'Ger cloud. It reminds him of what being a starship commander... no, of what being a human is all about. This time, when Kirk's smiling on the bridge at the end, I totally get it. He hasn't lost anything; he's only gained.

And this highlights what makes great Trek great. There are three key ingredients; likeable characters, exciting adventures and, crucially, something to make you think. Maybe it's a moral element, or a neat slice of political satire, something to speak to the human condition. Something that asks you questions. Something for after the credits have rolled.

The Motion Picture has all three ingredients. It raises questions of faith, of the infinite possibilities of human imagination, of our capacity to leap beyond ourselves. It nods towards human failings and weaknesses with Kirk's obsessive character streak, but doesn't dwell on them. It uses Spock to reflect the dangers of total logic so obvious in V'Ger, and has McCoy to keep us grounded by saying what we're all thinking when the stakes are raised. The Wrath of Khan, meanwhile, has the characters and the excitement nailed down... but that's kinda it. There's nothing for me to take home, nothing for me to think about beyond "Kirk beat the bad man, who was so bad it cost us Spock." It's simply threat escalation and that, to me, isn't good storytelling. It's just, well... lazy.

What's also lazy about Khan are the production values. The re-used footage from The Motion Picture should be as vibrant and as gorgeous as it was first time around, but it looks as though it were taped off the telly. The lighting makes the bridge look like a janitor's closet, too dark in some places and too revealing of the rough plastic set in others. I know the original series had a reputation for cardboard sets, but The Motion Picture had made everything look so stunning and sleek, so why are we suddenly taking a step back here? If it's in the name of making everything feel more "militaristic" then you've lost me. I recoil every time David Marcus calls Starfleet "the military". Starfleet has never been the military, ever. They only use military terminology and structure because it's a clear and concise crisis management tool, a way to get things done. That's all.

So maybe the lighting was just matching the tone of the picture? Khan is a dark film. There's way too much gore, too much menace and horror. I know it's supposed to speak to Khan's power, but it feels really out-of-place in a Star Trek adventure. The whole Ceti eel thing is unnecessary, as are other moments peppered throughout the runtime. I much prefer the visual storytelling of The Motion Picture, in which we're given this sweeping introduction to the huge new Enterprise only for it to become a speck of light when shown flying over V'Ger. That is a far, far more powerful way of establishing a threat than splashing some ketchup around; the entire flyover sequence is my favourite. Even now, dozens of viewings later, my reactions match those of the bridge crew. Despite knowing how it all turns out, the slow-burn mystery of V'Ger's true identity and intentions still works. We never know more than Kirk, Spock or McCoy and that helps keep me engaged in the unfolding narrative.

It also helps that you've got Jerry Goldsmith along for the ride. His score is note-perfect, establishing iconic themes and sounds that rightly stay with the franchise for decades to come. James Horner's work on Khan is minimalist and disposable by comparison, although his final piece for the epilogue does come within reaching distance of Goldsmith's genius (if memory serves, I much prefer Horner's score from The Search for Spock, as he dials up its grandeur).

Sure, so The Motion Picture does linger on a few things. There are four separate establishing shots of the orbital office complex, a place we spend thirty seconds inside. In those early moments, and during the proper introduction of the V'Ger vessel, there's an indulgence that's likely half an answer to the popularity of Star Wars and half an effort to make a "prestige" picture. Heck, the film opens with a musical suite for two minutes; how much more classically old-school can you get? It's remarkable how well it all holds together, though. Considering the production history of The Motion Picture, it's a miracle it was ever completed, and yet all the special effects (bar two matte paintings of the Enterprise saucer section at the end... yikes) remain beautiful. They capture the sense of wonder necessary for the film's tone to work.

The battle in the Mutara Nebula at the conclusion of Khan comes close, especially in reflecting the flashes of light across the starships as they sneak around playing hunt-the-phaser-lock, but the rest of the film's effects are either too brief, or betray the early tricks of ILM's trade. Both the Enterprise and the Reliant are routinely transparent, with stars and planets showing through them. There's also a discrepancy in the shooting order, as the first new shots of the Enterprise show some obvious patch-up work where battle damage had previously been applied (effectively a spoiler for Khan's surprise attack). Again, it all looks a bit fuzzy and cheap when compared to the lavish visuals of its predecessor. Makes it difficult for me to connect with my suspension of disbelief.

But most other people bought it, apparently, because the next two films are direct sequels to Khan. I guess they had to be, in order to explain and resurrect Spock. As somebody who loves Leonard Nimoy's work and yet doesn't really care for the Spock character, however, my feelings towards that direction are hopefully clear by now. How we face death may be just as important as how we face life, but I'd rather dwell on life whilst I still have a choice. Give me hope, optimism and self-discovery in my Star Trek over suffering, sacrifice and self-loathing any day... and whilst The Search for Spock certainly has notes of the latter, The Voyage Home is a triumphant return to the former.

At least, it was the last time I watched it. Here's hoping I haven't changed too much, as I'm really looking forward to seeing Scotty speak into a computer's mouse next week.

@RogerRoger you know even Gene himself had issues with Wrath of Khan, in a biography of Roddenberry, entitled ‘Star Trek Creator’ he wrote this in a letter to a friend of his in July 1982:

As you have no doubt seen by now, many of the problems you and I found in the script were hidden or quickly glossed over in the film, which has become quite successful and has many fans comparing it favorably with the original television series. Whether or not you and I completely agree with this, it is a fact that the film is making lots of money, and that fits in with the value systems of Paramount and those involved in the film.

I think they did a pretty good job. A brilliant job? In making Star Trek work in a motion picture, possibly yes. In finding a way to stay true to Star Trek values, definitely not. It will be interesting to see what happens on Star Trek III.

Gene Roddenberry himself thought that ‘The Wrath of Khan’ did not stay true to Star Trek values, and yet this movie is held up as an exemplar of how to do Star Trek well on the big screen.

@FullbringIchigo I knew of his reaction, but I'd never seen the words themselves. Interesting, thank you. I certainly agree with him; Khan is a cracking film, but terrible Star Trek. Funnily enough, I said much the same about the Kelvin Timeline films back in 2009 and 2013 (and was more favourable to Beyond, as it at least started to move back towards optimism).

Goes to show what happens when the keys to the kingdom are passed to somebody with zero connection to its creator. Gene Roddenberry mentored Rick Berman, which is why The Next Generation went from strength to strength after Roddenberry's departure; reminds me of how the best post-Lucas Star Wars has been created by Dave Filoni. They're folks who understood the underlying nature of the beast, who "got" it. People like Nicholas Meyer and Ronald D. Moore (and Rian Johnson), people who come in and say "never really watched the original, or I didn't like it, and I wanna change it", always seem to miss the point.

That isn't to say what they create isn't very entertaining, of course. I just know which I prefer, s'all.

i think what we can take from this is, Micheal Dorn swears a lot

@FullbringIchigo "Engage. No, don't engage, erm... energise! That's what we say in this room."

The outtakes have always remained a highlight of those Blu-Rays. I also love the ones from the Enterprise DVDs / Blu-Rays, too. They all look like fun sets.

@RogerRoger i love watching outtakes

there will be a Star Trek panel in a few hours at NYCC, lets hope we get some Picard info out of it

sadly it won't be livestreamed but i'm sure they will update on Twitter as it goes

apparently it IS being livestreamed on SyFy Wire, you can view it here

Discovery Season 3 trailer was shown, looks like the rumour was right it's basically going to be Star Trek Andromeda

and the Star Trek Picard Trailer is here

@FullbringIchigo Discovery...? Meh.

But that Picard trailer...? Heck yes. Thanks for posting!

@RogerRoger @LN78 there wasn't really anything else from the panel but those trailers to share but at least we saw Number One, both of them

also Riker and Troi have at least one kid and that's great to know

@FullbringIchigo ...and yet Marina Sirtis never wanted kids. She wanted the dog.

i took a few screenshots from the trailer

first off Picard in the classic TNG Uniform, the way this is done it looks like a dream sequence

second a Hologram display of a Galaxy class ship and at least this time they have respected the original design

next is what i believe is the new ship Picard is using for his mission

and last is his OG Number One and he is looking a bit shocked

and here are some random pics i found on twitter from the trailer

loving that TOS style Romulan ship

our first look at a be-borged Hugh

Seven kicking ass

and Troi looks happy to see Jean-Luc

and after watching the Star Trek Discovery season 3 trailer, i thought Georgiou was the new Captain BUT in this picture i think that's an Admirals uniform, judging by the bit of the badge you can see and the shoulders

another thing from the Discover season 3 trailer and something we can actually make inferences about and that is the Flag of the United Federation of Planets

Notice how one of the big stars has gone, now any Trek fan knows that each Big star on the flag represented one of the Federation founding worlds & each little star was a member world so if one is gone then that means one of the founding worlds left, probably Andoria as they were attacking them in the trailer

so my thought is it is very much an Andromeda situation where the Federation is all but gone and they need to help rebuild it, not that it's a bad premise and if your unsure what you want to do with the series falling back on another of Genes concepts might not be a bad idea

plus this might also tie into that Section 31 series, if the Federation is being rebuilt you can be sure Section 31 is too

what was it Weyoun said "The Dominion has endured for 2000 years and will continue to endure long after your federation has crumbled into dust"

looks like he was right

EDIT: i thought i would add the old flag so you can see the difference