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Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

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FullbringIchigo

so anyway i thought it might be fun to ask a question about your favourite Star Trek........

this time UNIFORMS

so everyone, Which Uniform was your favourite, mine was the early Deep Space Nine/Voyager uniforms, they had the familiar colours we all know but they wasn't as "in your face" as the Original Series or Next Generation's uniforms and not as dark as the later DS9/TNG movie ones and while i love the Wrath of Khan ones they just feel a bit too formal for a uniform, they look more like they would be Dress Uniforms

Enterprise was also pretty good

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on a side note i really liked B'elanna's overcoat too, i know the only reason she had it was to hide Roxann Dawson's pregnancy but it did look like the kind of thing a Chief Engineer would have

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"I like Star Wars. It was young King Arthur growing up, slaying the evil emperor finally. There's nothing wrong with that kind of entertainment - everything doesn't have to create a philosophy for you - for your whole life. You can also have fun." - Gene Roddenberry

RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo @KALofKRYPTON You guys do realise that, mere minutes after the exchange about Data and Geordi, I just happened to capture this moment from Star Trek Online completely by accident...

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...and I couldn't stop laughing for a good ten minutes.

I thought STO was free of those kinds of moments, but no, that's my Captain and my First Officer. On a balcony. At sunset. Staring at each other. Sigh.

In case it wasn't clear from that screencap, by the way, my favourite uniforms are also what I call "the Voyager uniforms" (because okay, they were in DS9 and Generations first, but those crews switched uniforms several times throughout their entire runs, whereas Voyager kept their uniform choice, well... uniform, and I'm glad they did).

I also really like TNG Seasons 3-7. In fact no, scratch that, I like TNG uniforms across the board. I know the low-neck spandex onesie was impossibly uncomfortable for the entire cast, and nearly crippled Patrick Stewart, but it looked pretty sleek and introduced many of the elements we know and love (new department colours, rank pips, commbadges, etc.) so I'll include it. I don't even mind the idea of the skant variant; in the future, will people really mind which gender wears what? I like to think not. A fantastic bit of hope, perhaps executed ahead of its time but worth including all the same.

Never really cared for the First Contact / DS9 uniforms with the grey shoulders; they seemed less optimistic, more militaristic (which I guess suits the tone of their primary appearances). I love the Enterprise jumpsuits, but don't like the "coloured t-shirts" of the original series. The movie-era uniforms looked stunning, but also looked really uncomfortable! I don't mind the pyjama party from The Motion Picture, but my favourite from that film is Admiral Kirk's high-collar, more formal attire.

Two honourable mentions which I think are perhaps even better than the Voyager uniforms, but that were one-shot or special occasion so they kinda don't count:

1) The racing jumpsuits from "Drive" (VGR) which are so rare, we've only seen them once.
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2) The 29th Century Starfleet uniforms from "Future's End" (VGR) and "Relativity" (VGR).
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I also love the future Starfleet uniform that appeared in "All Good Things..." (TNG), "The Visitor" (DS9) and "Endgame" (VGR). I know they won't use it for the Picard series, but I really wish they would. That being said, every single time we've seen it, it's been a part of an alternate timeline that is overwritten and / or may never have even existed to begin with, so maybe the uniform never existed either?!

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger ha! @FullbringIchigo

As for uniforms - I'm pretty easy on. The Voyager/DS8/Generations are my least favourite, apart from on Chief O'Brien, because rolled up sleeves are totally my jam!

I do love the 3-7 TNG uniforms and have a couple of the Thinkgeek hoodies based on them.

I would say that my favourites are probably the First Contact onwards/DS9 uniforms. There's a lot of really nice texture and detail to those. I especially like the bead of the zipped under-shirt making the collar. The VOY ones never really lose the 'cheap jumpsuit' feeling - and I hate the collars on the under-shirts.

The 29C uniforms always made me think of the late Babylon 5 uniforms.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON Ah, but what about when Jonathan Frakes had to roll the sleeves up in Generations, because last-minute wardrobe decisions left him wearing one of Avery Brooks' spares and it didn't fit?

And yeah, I see the Babylon 5 similarity. Might be why I like them!

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger haha yeah, Jon, wear this for half an hour...

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

FullbringIchigo

@KALofKRYPTON and he doesn't look too pleased about it either
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"I like Star Wars. It was young King Arthur growing up, slaying the evil emperor finally. There's nothing wrong with that kind of entertainment - everything doesn't have to create a philosophy for you - for your whole life. You can also have fun." - Gene Roddenberry

FullbringIchigo

well that's interesting

https://trekmovie.com/2018/09/14/black-mirror-producers-hope-...

would anyone watch a "Callister" series

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"I like Star Wars. It was young King Arthur growing up, slaying the evil emperor finally. There's nothing wrong with that kind of entertainment - everything doesn't have to create a philosophy for you - for your whole life. You can also have fun." - Gene Roddenberry

KALofKRYPTON

@FullbringIchigo not really. It was a great Black Mirror episode. I could only see a spinoff being either a straight up Space Fleet series or something focused on the remaining crew from the episode in a sort of Star Trek via Tron/Ready Player One sort of thing. The latter could be interesting.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo I don't even know what Black Mirror is. That shot you've posted looks like a bunch of friends went to a Star Trek convention together and couldn't afford proper uniforms.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger Black Mirror is actually pretty good. Charlie Brooker (Newswipe etc) series. Each episode is a self contained scf-fi/fantasy story, usually with a grim bent of some sort but occasionally gloriously put together (an episode called Hang The DJ is genius).

A lot of it is very on-the-nose social commentary and you'll possibly struggle while watching it as it often feels like it's all coming from a rather snide, morally superior position looking down on the sheeple of the world (because it is).

It's a good watch though, there are some great episodes and there's a lot of it now, so perhaps something new to get in to with your partner.

The episode @FullbringIchigo is talking about involves a recreation of a Star Trek parody show in a persistent online world. It's another really good episode actually.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON I'm sorry, but you mentioned Charlie Brooker, and so the rest of your post might as well have been Neelix's recipie for leola root stew.

I pride myself on my tolerance for others, but I can't stand that man.

Thanks all the same!

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger Oh I fully agree. He's not actually in it though.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON Fair enough.

If the Mister mentions it, I'll try to keep an open mind.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger Honestly - it is good TV, and apart from the aforementioned occasional snideness, you'd never know Brooker was involved

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

FullbringIchigo

SO anyway i'm think we should have a weekly Star Trek Question so i have one for everybody

What is you favourite and least favourite episode from EACH series?, i'll go first of course

Star Trek

Favourite: The Trouble with Tribbles: it had good characters good writing, it was funny and of course the Bar fight, it was such a fan favourite that DS9 even came back to it over 20 years later

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Least Favourite: Spocks Brain, it was just plain DUMB even for a 1960's low budget Sci-Fi show
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Star Trek The Next Generation

Favourite: Schisms, i know right a bit out of left field but i really like this episode, it was like a Alien Abduction movie but it also showed a type of story Trek had never done before
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Least Favourite: The Game, while it could probably be a good story now with the issue of Video Game addiction or kids not being able to get of their stupid phones, it just wasn't very well done, the story was weak and lets be honest badly acted
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Star Trek Deep Space Nine

Favourite: In The Pale Moonlight Brooks was a Tour De Force in this one, brilliantly acted and showed us that even the best of us can be dirty if they have to be and that the "Federation" wasn't as High and Mighty or Holier than Thou as they were made out to be
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Least Favourite: The Passenger another dumb episode, a guy kills himself and then transfers his consciousness into Bashir, it was hammy as hell and just a little insulting
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Star Trek Voyager

Favourite:Message in a Bottle another fun little episode that was witty and the 2 EMH's were brilliant together plus it was our first glimpse that Voyager would make it home
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Least Favourite: Ex Post Facto another one that had potential but simply failed in the execution, bad writing was the main issue but i will admit Robert Duncan McNeil played it very well
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Star Trek Enterprise

Favourite: Affliction & Divergence, yes i know it's a 2 parter but both together make one episode anyway, i really liked this one, it was well paced and written and finally gave us the reason for why the Klingons looked like they did in TOS (only for Discovery to mess it up)
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Least Favourite: Precious Cargo, it was a by the numbers story and lets be honest it ripped of the TNG episode "The Perfect Mate" a bit too
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Star Trek Discovery

there has only been one season of this show so far but i think we can still pick a favourite and least favourite

Favourite: Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad honestly it was the stand out episode of the entire season, well acted and directed and a interesting story to boot, Stamets was the star of this one
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Least Favourite: The Vulcan Hello/Battle at the Binary Stars it was probably the worst opening episode of ANY Trek series not to mention it was inconsistent with every episode to follow, it wasn't very well written and the acting even from good actors was stiff, i can see why they got rid of Fuller
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sorry that post was a bit bigger than i thought but what are YOUR choices?

Edited on by FullbringIchigo

"I like Star Wars. It was young King Arthur growing up, slaying the evil emperor finally. There's nothing wrong with that kind of entertainment - everything doesn't have to create a philosophy for you - for your whole life. You can also have fun." - Gene Roddenberry

RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo Love the idea! Earlier I was thinking "So, we've had uniforms, and we've done Captains, so what's next?" and all that time, you were sourcing screencaps! Awesome!

Enjoyed reading your choices, too (despite some minor disagreement which you'll see below). Great shout out for "Schisms" (TNG). I always find that episode more entertaining than I perhaps should, probably thanks to the performances of the core actors involved (particularly Frakes, who would later reinforce his brilliance at "uneasy and on-edge" acting in the outstanding "Frame of Mind").

Here are my choices, a couple of which I apologise for in advance.

Favourite episodes up first.

Star Trek: The Original Series
"The Doomsday Machine"
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This remains a very watchable, well-paced tale of desperation, insanity and revenge. It's got great music, some great action (helped by the remastered effects) and a very palpable sense of tension running throughout. Star Trek does the old Moby Dick themes very well, and this is where it all started.

Honourable Mentions: "The Conscience of the King", "Balance of Terror", "The Squire of Gothos", "The Trouble with Tribbles" and "A Piece of the Action".

Star Trek: The Next Generation
"The Measure of a Man" and "All Good Things..."
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You can't make me pick between these, because they're awesome for different reasons. The former is a wonderful, socially-minded courtroom drama; the latter is a full-circle sci-fi celebration of a landmark television show. "The Measure of a Man" is Star Trek at its most important, but "All Good Things..." is Star Trek at its most entertaining and imaginative, and both are crucial factors in the franchise's success.

Honourable Mentions: "11001001", "Elementary, Dear Data", "Unnatural Selection", "The Defector", "Family", "Devil's Due", "Clues", "The Outcast", "I, Borg", "Time's Arrow, Parts I and II", "Face of the Enemy", "Lessons" and "Frame of Mind".

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
"Trials and Tribble-ations"
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This is just so much fun, and proves that the cast of DS9 could actually do comedy (although weirdly, they leave Armin Shimmerman behind, and I often find him the funniest) whilst also celebrating the rich history of the franchise. Not afraid to be cheesy, and a technical marvel with all the integrated shots (not bad for a 1996 television show). Always a joy to watch.

Honourable Mentions: "Duet", "Cardassians", "Defiant", "The Way of the Warrior", "Our Man Bashir", "Shattered Mirror", "The Ascent", "Sacrifice of Angels", "Far Beyond the Stars", "The Siege of AR-558", "Take Me Out to the Holosuite", "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang" and "What You Leave Behind".

Star Trek: Voyager
"Memorial"
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A haunting tale with a powerful message, a script like this lives or dies by the pacing and the performances of the cast; luckily, both elements in this episode are some of the finest on television. Voyager may have had more significant moments, or more exciting, but there's an atmosphere to this whole episode which I just adore. Classic Trek.

Honourable Mentions: "Caretaker", "Prime Factors", "The 37s", "Death Wish", "Real Life", "Scorpion, Parts I and II", "Message in a Bottle", "Extreme Risk", "Timeless", "Bride of Chaotica!", "Dark Frontier", "11:59", "Riddles", "Pathfinder", "Fair Haven", "Child's Play", "Drive", "Flesh and Blood", "The Void" and "Endgame" (why yes, this is my favourite Star Trek show, how could you tell?).

Star Trek: Enterprise
"These Are The Voyages..."
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Technically an episode of TNG, which is a fair point, but I adore how this wraps up over fifteen years of Berman-Era Trek (the Trek I grew up with and fell in love with). It does so beautifully, by showing how the stories, heroism and moral messages have helped countless fans with issues in their own lives, making Riker one of us and letting him gain insights via the crew of the NX-01 and, specifically, Trip. Not just the greatest episode of Enterprise, but the greatest Star Trek episode ever, in my opinion.

Honourable Mentions: "Broken Bow", "Shockwave, Parts I and II", "Minefield", "Cogenitor", "Regeneration", "Azati Prime", "Zero Hour", "Observer Effect" and "United".

And now, my least favourite.

Star Trek: The Original Series
"The Way to Eden"
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Because giving space hippies a lift is always a terrible idea; letting them jam with Spock is even worse. I know it was the 60s and all, but this episode is just trash.

Dishonourable Mentions: Pretty much all other TOS episodes I didn't give honourable mentions to in the previous list, although special nods to "Mudd's Women" and "Catspaw" for being particularly bad.

Star Trek: The Next Generation
"Birthright, Part II"
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Mumble mumble, Klingon tradition, blah blah, Worf being a racist, yawn. I'm deliberately focusing on the second of this mid-season two-parter because at least the first part had a secondary plot about Data dreaming, which held some interest and featured some nicely-shot sequences. If that had carried on to off-set the turgid Klingon nonsense of Worf's story, it might've been okay, but it's suddenly dropped to focus on the nightmare of Worf meeting some Klingons who don't know the meaning of Klingon tradition and who, worse, have made friends with Romulans. How very dare they?!

Dishonourable Mentions: "Code of Honour", "Justice", "Angel One", "Up the Long Ladder", "Shades of Grey", "Identity Crisis", "Redemption, Part I", "The Masterpiece Society", "Rightful Heir", "Masks" and "Firstborn".

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
"In the Pale Moonlight"
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For all the reasons that people love it, I can't stand this assassination of Gene Roddenberry's hopeful, optimistic view of humanity's future. Sisko becomes a war criminal and, guess what folks, he can live with it. Not what I like to stumble across when I'm looking for some uplifting entertainment with a decent moral core.

Dishonourable Mentions: There are quite a few from DS9, many of which I can't recall the episode titles for (after TOS, it's my least-favourite series) but I do remember "Sons of Mogh" and "The Muse" being especially awful.

Star Trek: Voyager
"Favourite Son"
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Harry Kim discovers that he's really from a race of beautiful women who want to sex him to death. If the writer wasn't a horny teenage nerd, then they should be ashamed of themselves.

Dishonourable Mentions: "Heroes and Demons", "Tattoo" and, of course, "Threshold".

Star Trek: Enterprise
"The Forge" / "Awakening" / "Kir'Shara"
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Sorry, I know these are quite popular episodes but, in a similar way to the Klingons in TNG and DS9, I just find "normal" Vulcans boring. It was good to finally see a few reasons as to why they were so arrogant and antagonistic in early Enterprise episodes, but they were much more interesting with that bit of an edge; these episodes remove that edge, and are poorly-paced to boot. I'm just really not bothered by any of it, on any level.

Dishonourable Mentions: "Rogue Planet", "Oasis", "Vox Sola", "Precious Cargo", "Extinction" and "Daedalus".

I'm afraid I can't do Discovery, as I've only watched it the once and can't really remember what happened episode to episode; I just didn't connect with it, although I do remember that the one with Harry Mudd using time travel to repeatedly kill Captain Lorca was witty and well-paced... oh, and Michelle Yeoh stole every scene she was in, as she always does, so episodes which featured her in a prominent role were entertaining.

Phew!

Edited on by RogerRoger

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger those are some really good choices there and yes i can see what your saying about In the Pale Moonlight and i understand why you wouldn't like it but for me the very fact it deconstructed the Trek formula is what made it good, it paved the way for a lot of the more thought provoking episodes to follow and the acting in it was superb

i would also like to say a 100% agree on Favourite Son but i chose Ex Post Facto because it failed at it's execution but Favourite Son did succeed in what it was trying to tell, it was just a BAD story

oh and the Harry Mudd Discovery episode was Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad, the one i chose as my favourite

"I like Star Wars. It was young King Arthur growing up, slaying the evil emperor finally. There's nothing wrong with that kind of entertainment - everything doesn't have to create a philosophy for you - for your whole life. You can also have fun." - Gene Roddenberry

RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo Oh, I don't disagree that Avery Brooks knocked it out of the park (he frequently did, but his acting in "In the Pale Moonlight" was particularly good) and that it's a very well-put-together episode. I guess it's just car-crash television for me; I know what's gonna happen, I can see where it's headed, I don't wanna see the impact, but I can't stop watching.

I don't mind pushing things every now and again, and never really had too much of a problem with Archer's darker moments in the 22nd Century, in a time before the Prime Directive and with such high stakes, since it was kinda the whole point of doing the prequel (although those moments are why he misses out on being my favourite captain, for sure). Sisko, however, shared a place in history with Picard and Janeway and it just doesn't sit right with me. It feels deliberate, petty and a little bitter, and when you hear Ronald D. Moore's comments about the Star Trek franchise and his disdain for Roddenberry's vision, I understand why a lot of DS9's episodes feel that way.

In terms of dramatic construction, performances and overall execution, there are way worse episodes (like "The Muse", yuck... oh, and let's not forget "Profit and Lace"... actually, maybe we should) but you asked for our least favourites and that element just wrinkles my nose, and not in a cool Bajoran way.

But you get it, because of your comments regarding "Favourite Son" and "Ex Post Facto". I agree that the latter isn't amazing, but I quite liked Tuvok's little Poirot moment and the play-dead space battle ("Not to belittle Maquis tactics, Commander, but this is a very OLD trick!") so it just manages to elevate itself out of my personal reject bin. On the flipside, there's very little in "Favourite Son" that's actually enjoyable to watch. Which is a shame, as I quite like Harry Kim and when he's given good stuff to do (episodes like "The Killing Game" and "Timeless" spring to mind) he's great.

I thought that Discovery episode might've been the one you picked! Great minds!

Edited on by RogerRoger

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger Timeless was an awesome episode and that crash for the time was done really well, it definitely one of my Top 5 Voyager episodes
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and yeah Profit and Lace was terrible but i can't help but laugh at it, it's so bad it's funny
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"I like Star Wars. It was young King Arthur growing up, slaying the evil emperor finally. There's nothing wrong with that kind of entertainment - everything doesn't have to create a philosophy for you - for your whole life. You can also have fun." - Gene Roddenberry

RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo "Not exactly how I wanted to cross the finish line!"

Nothing against Armin Shimmerman's performance, and it does have some half-decent slapstick nonsense going on, but... no, I just... no.

I've edited my original list because I somehow forgot "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" in the honourable mentions category; that is often tied with "Trials and Tribble-ations" as my favourite. There were just so many episodes to list, I was bound to miss one! Now I just wanna go and watch all of these!

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

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