Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

@KALofKRYPTON the Saru and Mudd ones are actually pretty good the first 2, not so much, they last about 15 minutes

@FullbringIchigo I hate Saru! =D

@KALofKRYPTON really, may i ask why because i thought he was the only decent character in the entire first season

@FullbringIchigo Lorca was good, didn't actually mind Tilly - though that's likely for less than honorable reasons =D

Saru I just found... misplaced I suppose. He's pretty good in place at the tail-end of the season, if a bit too cautious, but I can't really place his character as being Lorca's XO, or an XO in Starfleet. At all.

It's like, he fits in to the character stereotype void that he was designed for but that's it.

@KALofKRYPTON Tell you one i didn't like, Stamets, he was a bit full of himself until he used the spore drive then he became what is basically a drug addict, at least he acted like one

has potential though and the actor is good so perhaps in season 2 he will be better

@FullbringIchigo no wonder really; since he was pulling double duty as chief engineer as well 'just a scientist roped in to Starfleet'... 🙄

@KALofKRYPTON problem is in season 1 none of the characters actually organically developed they were one way and then all of a sudden they were another because they had to be for the story

hopefully now the 2 abusive bully's (berg and harberts) are gone and the writers have a bit more freedom instead of having to exactly what those 2 wanted wanted they can improve that aspect of the characters

seriously did you ever watch any After Treks, the writers and producers were never together, if the producers (berg and harberts) were on set the writers were conveying via skype so was some of the actors actually

i know people have a bad view on Kurtzman's ability to do Trek but at least he doesn't terrorise his staff

@FullbringIchigo I refuse to watch companion shows. My parter used to watch The Talking Dead and occasionally the Games of Thrones one; I'd rather cut my own heart out with a spoon than watch any more, let alone the Disco one.

@KALofKRYPTON trust me they are bad, i was mainly watching for humours sake because they were SO gung ho about everything they was doing, like it was the first time anything like that had ever been done on a Star Trek show before

saying things like "it's so great being the first series having a black lead character" "cough DS9 cough" or "the first time a same sex relationship was seen in a Trek series" again DS9

and the WORST most unfunny host just lapping it all up

i even asked once "did they EVER watch a previous series?"

@FullbringIchigo I agree apart from the homosexuality point.
There have been allusions and plot points and hypersexual mirror universe Kira, but not just series regular characters who just happen to be gay/lesbian and or in a relationship.

They really never had the bottle to do that. I remembered the gist of a quote from Leanard Nimoy so went searching for it; he said this after Gene Rodenberry spoke openly about overcoming his old fashioned biases and had planned to include gay character(s) in TNG before he died and control of Trek passed to Berman:

"It is entirely fitting that gays and lesbians will appear unobtrusively aboard the Enterprise—neither objects of pity nor melodramatic attention."

He had it right all those years ago of course, and it is to Disco's rare credit that they did that. Not that they deserve credit really since Rodenberry had plans to 28 years ago, or should be boasting about it so much I think.

@KALofKRYPTON that's true Discovery was the first to have a recurring couple but the subject had at least been tackled before in the franchise, just on a smaller scale

@FullbringIchigo It's Nimoy's words that seal it though - "neither objects of pity nor melodramatic attention".

Just there, living life along with everyone else without having a blazing flag or being a plot contrivance.

@KALofKRYPTON speaking of Discovery the first episode is out, have you watched it, what about you @RogerRoger

i have and it was pretty decent, still bogged down by some the crap Berg and Harbets did but they wrote this one before they was sacked so i expect that will start to filter out in future episode

on a side note Anson Mount was really good as Pike and i actually want to see where he takes the character

@FullbringIchigo ... to a floating chair! Zing!

@KALofKRYPTON

@FullbringIchigo Also, no I haven't yet.

Maybe Sunday - but Ace Combat is out today, so...

@FullbringIchigo Thanks for the heads-up about Short Treks and the new season getting underway; haven't watched either but likely won't watch it until more episodes are out (my partner and I watch it together and we've currently got a good rhythm going between 24 and The Good Wife, so won't wanna pause to interject something new). I hate to say it, but it's not like it's a brand new show now, so I'm not exactly eager to watch it because I'm carrying my opinions of the first season with me.

@KALofKRYPTON Just to briefly go back to what you were discussing yesterday, I fear you might've overlooked the DS9 episode "Rejoined" in which Jadzia Dax meets one of her former hosts' wives and they rekindle their relationship. There's the usual Trek allegory for bigotry (this time being the Trill stigma of picking back up on former relationships) but nobody at any time makes a big deal about it being two women falling in love. In fact, there's an awesome moment which reinforces Kira as one of my top three DS9 characters, in which she's discussing the situation at the top of the episode and just asks "So, why don't they just pick up where they left off, then?" as if it's the most normal thing ever. That's exactly the tone they should've struck.

Of course, there are real-world implications towards that episode that I didn't like (the fact that it was treated as a special one-off episode, after considerable pressure from fans, and that it focused on two women kissing, because sci-fi is for teenage boys and so gay women are more "tolerable" than gay men, and that the whole Trill element had already basically confirmed Jadzia as bisexual, which was TV shorthand for "experimental when we need a ratings boost, but deep down she's normal like the rest of us") but when viewed as a slice of Trek, it's a pretty fantastic episode.

That quote from Nimoy is awesome. He is sorely missed.

@RogerRoger I do remember it - but as you say, it's a one off. There's never any point where anyone watching is expecting it to be a long running thing. It works perfectly that way just like all episodes throwing out a past Dax acquaintance. And as you also point out - it's very pointed towards titillation.

@KALofKRYPTON Yeah, as forty-five minutes of Trek, it's great but those wider, real-world implications don't quite sit right (although even considering those, the episode is much, much better than Mirror Kira and Mirror Ezri, where same-sex relationships are not just used for titillation but also, offensively, as a shorthand for villainy).

It did make me laugh when the American entertainment press automatically assumed that Malcolm Reed would be Trek's first gay character, simply because he was British. Dominic Keating gives a great interview talking about when he'd just landed the part and was leafing through Entertainment Today or something, and read that Reed would be gay. He phoned up Rick Berman and said "I don't mind playing that, y'know, but it would've been nice to have been told!" and Rick just sighed and said "Don't believe everything you read, Dom."

@RogerRoger =D Brilliant! I never read that one!