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Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

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FullbringIchigo

@KALofKRYPTON you know if CBS lose that wouldn't that pretty much mean the end of Discovery, not to mention they would have to pull the series from shelves and streaming services and they would probably have to drop it from canon too

you i bet there are some people actually hoping they lose BUT the issue is IF they do CBS might just think it's too much trouble and just drop the franchise completely, this COULD in the worse case mean the end of Star Trek

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

KALofKRYPTON

@FullbringIchigo I think they will lose. And they should lose, frankly.

I doubt they'd pull it; it's commercially successful and it would be a PR nightmare, but a royalty will have to be paid I reckon.

It's probably why so very much has been greenlit for development. So they can recoup whatever losses hit they'll take from Discovery by getting stuff to market while it's popular.

How long Discovery lasts after they lose is another matter entirely...

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

FullbringIchigo

@KALofKRYPTON it all depends on how the case goes like i said it's a worse case scenario but it's possible the whole thing will have to be scrapped

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

KALofKRYPTON

@FullbringIchigo as I say, I think that would be extremely unlikely. They'll have to pay anyway, so it makes sense to keep it running, to cover their costs if nothing else; and I find it doubtful that a US judge would actually order CBS to cease and desist on the basis of a game that extremely few people have heard of.

I don't mind if it does have to stop though to be honest. Initially when the anthology/varying time period idea was floating around I was quite excited, then the '10 years before Kirk' stuff started being talked about and it felt like it'd be a cash cow. It's actually a decent enough show, but it shows zero respect to the established timeline; add to that the plagiarism - and I'll shed no tears to see it go.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

FullbringIchigo

@KALofKRYPTON i would have loved if it stayed as an Anthology series, each season being a different ship, crew and time

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

FullbringIchigo

Brand new interview with Alex Kurtzman about Star Trek

Alex Kurtzman Talks Respecting Picard, Learning From Voyager And DS9, And Why Star Trek Is His New Mission
Untitled

The end of the week brought two more interviews with executive producer Alex Kurtzman, and yesterday we posted highlights of what he had to say about season two of Star Trek: Discovery. The man in charge of expanding Star Trek on TV also talked about the Picard series, keeping the various Trek shows unique and gave some insights into why he feels more Star Trek is essential.

Picard show will be different, but respect the character

On Variety’s TV Take podcast, Alex Kurtzman discussed how the team has approached meeting Patrick Stewart’s challenge to create a different show that honors the past:

What we had done is shown [Patrick Stewart] in the writing that we at least wanted to try for something that was different and that he was coming to the table with people that not only loved him, but loved the character. From there we started building it very much together. Then began the process of saying, “What do we want to do and how is this different? How are we honoring Picard? How are we honoring the fans? How are we honoring The Next Generation?” And this kind of amazing thing has emerged and it will feel really different than Discovery, but that is to me a great thing and necessary thing.

In an interview with Entertainment Weekly, Kurtzman gave a little detail on how the Picard series will differ from Star Trek: Discovery:

It’s an extremely different rhythm than Discovery. Discovery is a bullet. Picard is a very contemplative show. It will find a balance between the speed of Discovery and the nature of what Next Gen was, but I believe it will have its own rhythm. Without revealing too much about it, people have so many questions about Picard and what happened to him, and the idea we get to take time to answer those questions in the wake of the many, many things he’s had to deal with in Next Gen is really exciting. ‘More grounded’ is not the right way to put it, because season 2 of Discovery is also grounded. It will feel more… real-world? If that’s the right way to put it.

On the Variety podcast, Kurtzman discussed his perspective on approaching the fan expectations for the Picard show:

People will come into [the Picard] show with expectations and we will meet some of them and we will fail in other ways. Because there is no way for everybody to love everything. Part of the beauty of Star Trek is people debate it and have different points of view about it. Very rarely does every Trekkie or Trekker agree on everything and that is sort of the point. It asks its fans to engage in a debate and conversation. Because something is so meaningful to people and has endured for over 50 years, we couldn’t possibly please everybody and that’s okay. But where you really fall short and people get really angry, is if they feel you are somehow disrespecting the franchise or throwing a kind of darkness into a character that they did not feel that way about. If you are mutating the character into something that doesn’t feel like what they love, that’s hard. We are always debating where that line is.

Finally, Kurtzman gave EW an update on the status from the writer’s room:

The writers room has broken about eight episodes and we’re moving quickly and I couldn’t be more excited about it.

Untitled
Alex Kurtzman announcing Picard series with Patrick Stewart at Star Trek Las Vegas 2018

Learning lessons from Voyager and Deep Space Nine for expanding Trek universe

As has been reported, there are multiple Star Trek series in development at CBS. Kurtzman says he wants to avoid some of the issues that arose the last time the franchise went down this road of multiple series in the 90s:

I want to make sure that each show is a different and unique proposition. I think Deep Space Nine and Voyager got into a tricky spot where people were starting to feel they can’t tell the difference between the shows, even though they were very different, but “I can’t tell the difference so why would I pick one over the other?” Our job is to make sure that it feels like a very different prospect from any other Trek show that exists. In the same way in the world of Marvel or in the world of Pixar, you have multiple stories coexisting although each one feels different while there is an assumption and an understanding of what the brand identity of what that thing is.

Every time you got to a Marvel movie you kind of know what you are going to get, but one could be Ragnarok, one could be Black Panther and one could be Iron Man and all of those have a very different feel, but there is always a premium on the storytelling…And even though all their films are different, the one thing you can always expect when you go to a Pixar movie is that the story is going to be great. I want us all to elevate Trek to that place. So, when you go to watch a show, the expectation is we are going to have great storytelling. The kinds of stories are going to be different and the way they are told is going to be different, but I want to build Trek to where people assume that about it.

Star Trek without limits

As for what kinds of stories can be told in the world of Star Trek, Kurtzman told Variety he has yet to find the limit:

One of the things that is really beautiful about Star Trek is there are interesting offshoots and there are interesting areas in the world of Star Trek and points of view in the world of Star Trek that allow for tremendous variety in kinds of stories you can tell. I think it is because Trek has such a long history and tradition of honoring every character. So, being able to shift points of view radically, even when the show is about one main character, to be able to jump into another character’s point of view…It is constantly challenging me to find different ways to tell stories and not only that, but to also to come up with structural paradigms that are different…I haven’t yet found a limitation on that with Trek. I don’t thing there is a “you can’t do it this way” rule on Trek

Star Trek as his new mission

Kurtzman also spoke at length with Variety about his experience with Star Trek from the first two Kelvin movies and then returning for Discovery. He got frank, saying that working on Discovery after have an unsatisfying experience with The Mummy (on a personal note i think Tom Cruise was the main problem there because he has to be in charge of every film he is involved in) changed his perspective on the franchise and the kind of projects he wants to do.

I had a really wonderful and very healing experience, because I found myself connecting to it more and more at a time when I saw the world changing. And for the first time – despite the experience I had on the films – I began to feel Star Trek was more necessary than ever. Where Star Wars is about a galaxy far, far away, Star Trek is about the best of what we can become. And right now, we need to know that. Now, more than ever, need to know as the Vulcans say, live in a world of infinite diversity and infinite combinations, and that our best selves will emerge and there is hope for a crew like Discovery and a future that hold the people on that ship to exist. And suddenly it became a mission, where I was like I don’t want to do anything that isn’t meaningful anymore. I don’t want to do anything that isn’t about putting a message into the world that is necessary and positive. And I fell love with Trek in a different way. I already loved it, but it suddenly became the only thing I wanted to do and the only story I wanted to tell. I have come to a place in my life where if it doesn’t have nutritional value, meaning if it doesn’t have something important to say and something meaningful about the state of the world and people, I don’t care. I am not going to spend my time on that anymore.

Later in the podcast, Kurtzman again picked up on this theme, saying:

It has become a mission to me. [Working on the movies] was a wonderful job that I was lucky to get with a lot of people who were so talented, and frankly knew more than I did, much more. But now, it is different. Now I feel finally I can authentically call myself – I dunno Trekkie, Trekker? – I guess you have to pick your definition of that. But now that I have so fallen in love with the world, and kind of claimed my place in it in a different way, I think it has opened up to me in a way that is different than it used to be.

Untitled
Alex Kurtzman calling “action” for Star Trek: Discovery season two premiere episode

Original article: https://trekmovie.com/2019/01/12/alex-kurtzman-talks-respecti...

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo Calling the Picard show "contemplative" gives me hope.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger you know i do think they took all the backlash Discovery got on board and while it's to late to fully repair Discovery they can at least go into the new shows in the right way

at least i hope they do

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

KALofKRYPTON

@FullbringIchigo @RogerRoger
"I think Deep Space Nine and Voyager got into a tricky spot where people were starting to feel they can’t tell the difference between the shows"

I think that is self affirming BS. Across years of internet interactions and the plentiful people IRL I know who appreciate a bit of Trek; never in my life - even as DS9 and VOY originally aired - have I ever heard anyone express such a sentiment. It also has no bearing on the shows themselves, if he really believes that - I'd be even more worried than knowing he's a willing plagiarist.

Hopefully Stuart's gravitas will stymie too much nonsense for Picard. It will be interesting too see what a pig's ear they make of furthering the industrial design for the show.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

FullbringIchigo

@KALofKRYPTON OH it's CBS PR BS for sure trying to bull up what they are trying to do with Trek but on the flip side what i think he was trying to say is if you have multiple shows of the same franchise running at the same time and they have similar structure then franchise fatigue can set in so they want to try and keep each series fresh

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

KALofKRYPTON

@FullbringIchigo You're being pretty generous I think. He's talking out of backside and trying (surprise, surprise) to rewrite history to help dismiss DS9 and Voyager just that little bit more lest anyone actually call him out on having minority and female leads in Trek shows a quarter of a century ago; DS9 and VOY were also entirely different propositions, both aesthetically and tonally polarised.

All they have to do for Picard to be distinct from Discovery is actually make it like Star Trek and with period appropriate design work.

He's positioning himself as some sort of saviour of Star Trek in that article.

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

FullbringIchigo

@KALofKRYPTON like i said it's CBS PR BS, remember this is actually the first Trek CBS has made all the other was made by Paramount so of course they are going to try to push THEIR Trek over the old one

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

RogerRoger

@KALofKRYPTON I completely agree with you, but it's not just Kurtzman who's pushing for DS9 and Voyager (particularly Voyager) to be ignored. I may have mentioned this before, but Netflix released their top ten most-watched and re-watched episode list across all the Star Trek shows last year, because they have every series available, and it was as follows.

1. "Endgame" (VGR)
2. "The Best of Both Worlds" (TNG)
3. "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II" (TNG)
4. "Scorpion" (VGR)
5. "Scorpion, Part II" (VGR)
6. "The Gift" (VGR)
7. "Dark Frontier" (VGR)
8. "Q Who?" (TNG)
9. "Time and Again" (VGR)
10. "Clues" (TNG)

General nerd sites and the official Star Trek website picked it up and discussed the reasons why people might love Voyager so much, and the appeal of the Borg as villains, whilst also exploring why the original series, DS9 or Enterprise didn't make the list... but not a single fan-run Trek site covered the news. I know somebody who helps to run a pretty major Trek website and I asked them a couple months afterwards why it wasn't covered, and they admitted that some of the editors got together and agreed not to post about it because "nobody likes Voyager or wants to admit to Voyager being successful. If the list was full of TNG or DS9, we'd have posted it".

Or in other, somewhat ironic words... "Individuality is irrelevant. Personal preference is irrelevant. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

To see that attitude reflected in an executive who's in charge of new Trek is disappointing, but not surprising. Patrick Stewart being in the writer's room for the Picard series gives me hope, because I trust that he won't screw things up too much, but let's not forget he was constantly begging producers to let Picard punch people and sleep around, so it's a small measure of hope.

@FullbringIchigo is also dead-on reminding us that this is a CBS press release, though.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger yeah that whole "it has to be TNG" attitude is rife in the fandom, it's like when they had polls on the official Star Trek website TNG would always win even if it didn't make any sense for it to win

but about Voyager, i LOVE Voyager (although DS9 is still my favourite series) and it gets far to much flack, i feel but it had better character development than TNG and even when it retread the same stories it did it better than both TOS and TNG but it's like Star Wars fans, there is a reverence for the original works that for some reason people can't look past even when it's sequels (or prequels) outdo it

Untitled

also Tuvok is a better security officer and character than Worf, Janeway is a better Captain than Kirk and Tom and B'elanna are a better couple than Riker and Troi

Neelix was kind of annoying at times though and the whole 7 and Chakotay thing wasn't done very well but other than that Voyager was great

Edited on by FullbringIchigo

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger @FullbringIchigo
You both by now know my general distaste for Voyager - but I say that still having watched it all several times! I understand the elitism at work, and DS9 failing to win over America (or America failing to win at DS9) tends to leave TNG with all of the wins and fondness.

Enterprise ended so very well with those last two seasons, and had plenty of nice moments in 1 & 2; but it felt like much of Voyager (to me) as being filler/recycled ideas. And (believe it or not) Where My Heart Will Take Me (Faith of the Heart) really, really put a lot of people off.

It's hard not to be too precious about fandom, but a TRek site not running that story?! "who is the coolest of the nerds? All of us because we hate Voyager"

  • Voyager is the Batman Forever of Star Trek. Everyone rags on it continually, with justified criticisms or not - but they all still watch it, they still have that DVD in a closet somewhere...

PSN: KALofKRYPTON (so you can see how often I don't play anything!)

Twitter: @KALofKRYPTON (at your own risk, I don't care if you're offended)

"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

FullbringIchigo

@KALofKRYPTON off topic i actually like Batman Forever, it's dumb like really dumb but it's fun kind of like the Street Fighter Movie

"your allowed to like films & TV even if they are bad and films & TV are allowed to be fun", not everything has to be a message or has to tackle a social issue, sometimes films and TV shows just need to be entertainment something shows like Star Trek and Doctor Who has forgotten

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

FullbringIchigo

OK 2 things first i'm not sure about this, they might be doing TOO much

and second WHO the hell at Screenrant rights these things, i have never read a bigger load of total b******* in my life

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-voyager-fan-theories/

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo I'll be honest with you; that's one show where I wouldn't even care what it did or how it was presented, I'd tune in just for Michelle Yeoh. She's awesome.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger it's a Section 31 based show apparently, black ops and the like

i wonder if she will be captain of a ship?

"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"

"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo They could go in any direction with Section 31. She could be aboard a different ship every week, or have her own with a crew of spies (although it'd be tough to keep an entire starship hidden from history, if we're to believe they'll even attempt to maintain canon).

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

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