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Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

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RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo Yeah, I'm kinda 50/50 on it because I liked how they gave every ship of the TNG/DS9/VGR era its own unique party trick. They were also gonna originally have variable-geometry warp nacelles on the Enterprise-E (the argument being that they counteracted the damage to subspace discovered in "Force of Nature" [TNG] allowing them to do away with the Warp 5 Speed Limit) but that would've taken something away from Voyager, I think.

As it stands, we never got to see a unique party trick for the Enterprise-E anyway, although I'd put forward the Captain's Yacht from Insurrection because whilst we know many ships had them, hers is the only one we ever got to see in action.

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Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger that's true, when i was watching Insurrection in the cinema, when they first mention the Captains Yacht i had to say to myself..."OH YEAH! they do have those don't they"

well apart from Voyager which was meant to have something called a Aeroshuttle but it was never installed, it's why they had to build the Delta Flyer

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RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo They were gonna use the Aeroshuttle at the beginning of Season Five. The company in charge of VFX for the show, Foundation Imaging, even created a mock-up launch sequence, which one of their artists found in their archive and shared on YouTube a couple years back.

They even designed the Aeroshuttle so that it featured the same dual-window cockpit as a Runabout; knowing that DS9 would be coming to a close, they could pinch and modify the set as a budget-saving exercise, but the producers found the extra money, had written the script for "Extreme Risk" [VGR] already and so chose to build the Delta Flyer instead. Apparently, since Insurrection also featured the Captain's Yacht of the Enterprise-E, one factor in the decision was that they didn't wanna "steal the thunder" of the film by having the party trick also feature on television.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger yeah i knew that actually, thing is i would have loved to see it, i don't think it would have "stole Insurrection's thunder"

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RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo Me neither, but I do love the Delta Flyer and can appreciate them wanting to keep things separate (it's why the Defiant wasn't called Valiant like they wanted it to be; didn't wanna "confuse audiences" by having two hero ships beginning with the same letter).

At least we've got the cool test footage. I've also got the Eaglemoss model of the Aeroshuttle on my Voyager shelf, because I think it's a neat little ship.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger it is a neat little ship and yes the Flyer is also really good
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"This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!"

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FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger some news about the upcoming Picard series

Star Trek Picard Show To Deal With Event That Radically Altered Galaxy, TNG Guest Stars A Possibility
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Since it was announced last August, the new CBS All Access Star Trek show featuring Sir Patrick Stewart returning to the role of Jean-Luc Picard has been a bit of a mystery, but some new details on the show have now been revealed

Picard show to deal with the destruction of Romulus

The Hollywood Reporter has posted more from their interview with Star Trek executive producer Alex Kurtzman, this time focusing on what he had to say about the Picard series. In it, Kurtzman reveals a key point about the setting of the show and how it relates to other Trek productions:

“Picard’s life was radically altered by the dissolution of the Romulan Empire.”

Kurtzman is referring to an event shown in the 2009 film Star Trek, which he co-wrote. The film established that in the year 2387, the planet Romulus was destroyed by a supernova. While Star Trek sets up the new Kelvin timeline, the events prior to Spock traveling back in time were part of the Prime timeline.

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The destruction of Romulus in Star Trek (2009)

Jean-Luc Picard has a long history with the Romulans. Throughout Star Trek: The Next Generation, the Romulans were one of the primary antagonists for the show, with Picard and crew going up against them more often than the Borg. Picard was involved in Spock’s failed secret peace attempt to reunify the Romulans and the Vulcans (TNG: “Reunification”), and in his final outing (Star Trek: Nemesis) he faced off with his own clone, who had taken over the Romulan Empire. That film ended with Picard forming a friendship with Romulan Commander Donatra, indicating a potential thawing of relations

Star Trek: Countdown comic prequel to the 2009 Star Trek film also showed Picard involved with Romulan politics. That comic features a story co-written by Kurtzman
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Ambassador Picard speaking to Ambassador Spock in Star Trek: Countdown

The Picard series is expected to take place 20 years after the events of Star Trek Nemesis, which would set it in the year 2399, or twelve years after the destruction of Romulus. Apparently, during those years, the destruction of Romulus led to the dissolution of the Romulan Empire. It’s not hard to imagine how Picard may have become more involved with Romulan politics in the years leading up to the destruction of Romulus, and how it would “radically alter” his life

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Donatra talks to Picard in Star Trek Nemesis

Stewart wants the unexpected

Kurtzman also talked about the efforts to talk Stewart into doing the series, including how he and his team–including Pulitzer Prize-winning author Michael Chabon–prepped for their first pitch meeting with the legendary actor. Kurtzman revealed:

“It turned into a 34-page document — with no way to shorten it. We were going on all in and he was going to read it or not read it, love it or hate it. It was our best attempt at trying to get him to say yes. He walked into the room and he had a huge smile on his face and said, ‘This is wonderful,’ “

But Stewart had important stipulations about how the show would go forward, as Kurtzman tells THR

“He threw down an amazing gauntlet and said, ‘If we do this, I want it to be so different, I want it to be both what people remember but also not what they’re expecting at all, otherwise why do it?’ “

TNG guest stars?

Another key question about the Picard series regards other characters. So far no casting beyond Stewart has been announced. During the fall, a number of Stewart’s Star Trek: The Next Generation co-stars made it clear they had not been contacted, and they didn’t expect to be involved. Speaking to THR, Kurtzman didn’t say anything specific on the possibility of TNG actors showing up, but did offer a little hope, saying:

“Anything could happen.”

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Will the Picard show reunite any members of the Star Trek: The Next Generation cast?

Original Article is here on Trek Movie https://trekmovie.com/2019/01/08/star-trek-picard-show-to-dea...

"This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!"

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Throb

Great info about the Picard series. If they can make it as good and as surprising as Discovery then we should be in for a treat

Can't think of anything good to put here just yet, watch this space...

PSN: Headthrob

KALofKRYPTON

@FullbringIchigo

The Titan books touch on what happens with Picard and the Enterprise post-Nemesis. It's a bit of a rough time - though rather different than what Kurtzman did with the comic.

Picard and the Enterprise are kept well away from Romulus after Nemesis due to the symbolism of Shinzon's connection to Picard; as factions start clawing for power on Romulus, the Federation steps in with a non-aggressive approach.

There are allusions made to a couple of disastrous missions for the Enterprise too.

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"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo Thanks for the tag; hadn't seen this otherwise. I agree with @KALofKRYPTON (great to see you back, sir) in that the Titan books might've been cool to explore, but it's likely that Kurtzman will follow his own star and touch upon scenes from the Countdown comic, if anything at all.

As much as I sometimes disagree with elements of the JJ films, I respect them as canon and am glad there'll be steps to tie everything together and respect established events (looking at you, Discovery).

Failing to bring back the key members of the TNG cast would be criminal.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@KALofKRYPTON @RogerRoger sorry i didn't get right back my laptop died and i couldn't remember my log in details

as far as i'm aware while people say the comics like Countdown or the Kelvin verse comics ain't canon because none of the other books and comics are the people making the films and TV shows view them as canon (in fact one of the was even referenced in Star Trek Into Darkness same as the video game), Countdown is even the official prequel to Star Trek 09 so how people don't think it's canon is beyond me

as for Discovery i don't think they will ever be able to repair the continuity in that one so i tend to think of it NOT as a prequel to TOS but as a sequel the Enterprise which itself was a a sequel to *First Contact and i believe that the events of that film actually changed the events of TOS, TNG and the early DS9 and Voyager series hence why all the technology in Voyager actually changed in season 4 (you will notice that the Phaser, Tricorders and other things changed between season 3 and 4, in real life this is because there was a fire at the paramount lots and they had to use the props from Fist Contact but i like my in universe explanation)

so basically TOS, TNG and early DS9/Voy are the original time line and later DS9/Voy, Enterprise and Discovery is actually a changed timeline

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RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo I can get on board with that (although it was between Seasons 2 and 3 that they changed the props for Voyager, not 3 and 4, but that's just me being a nitpicky nerd so apologies, ignore me). The events of First Contact are arguably even more disruptive and shattering to the timeline than the incident that threw Nero back in time to destroy the USS Kelvin, and given how many various timelines could and couldn't have been created by every single instance of time travel in Star Trek history I couldn't even begin to try and keep track of what possible instance we're watching (as Janeway says, it all gives me a headache). And as somebody who often pointed to the events of First Contact whilst defending Enterprise's so-called "canon errors" I've gotta like your logic.

Maybe I should re-watch Discovery from that perspective, and stop being sensitive to what the producers and writers say about artistic vision and whatnot. Thanks!

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Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger your right it was seasons 2 and 3 not 3 and 4
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RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo Oh, don't beat yourself up, as I got it wrong as well... it was between Seasons 1 and 2! So that should be my d'oh, not yours!

Just had to look it up because I remember the specific episode, it's "Initiations" (the second episode of Season 2) where there's a heck of a lot of phaser-waiving during the finale and it's real obvious that they're the new design. I always forget the placement of that episode and get it mixed up with "The Chute", which is early Season 3 and yet I always think is early Season 2.

Anyway, that's a bigger continuity error than anything else we're discussing! I always just assumed that Voyager launched with the schematics in the computer, and decided one day that they'd need more advanced kit and so replicated everything one day when passing by a nebula which overcharged their power systems. Or something. Same excuse for when they built themselves new shuttlecraft to replace the ones they crashed every other week.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger and they still blew that one up too just to board a Borg Cube so they had to build a SECOND one

seems like a waste of resources to me honestly

and speaking of resources didn't an early episode say they only had a limited supply of Torpedoes some where around 35 and they can't replace them after they used them but they end up using nearly 100 or something during the shows run?

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RogerRoger

@FullbringIchigo Yes, during a very early episode there's an exchange on the bridge where Chakotay mentions their photon torpedo inventory (38) and Janeway says "and no way to replace them after they're gone". Later, during a battle with the Kazon, she advises Tuvok to hold his fire because "they may have torpedoes to waste; we don't". Otherwise it's never mentioned as a problem. By most counts, they end the show on -85 photon torpedoes.

But if I were aboard Voyager, maybe working in engineering, and heard either of those two quotes then I'd have immediately set about finding a way to replicate more torpedoes. They've got to be made somewhere, right? And replicators can make just about anything, and we know every starship's database has the full specifications and blueprints (we even saw them several times, in episodes like "Live Fast and Prosper" later on) so all you'd really need is the antimatter. At some point between episodes, Voyager found an energy source and made more.

In fact, knowing B'Elanna, that's probably exactly how it went down. Just because it was never explicitly stated on screen doesn't mean it never happened.

There's also fuzzy moments, like the brief alliance with the Borg where photon torpedoes are called "inadequate" by Seven of Nine before they're modified with nanoprobe warheads. People always include these torpedoes in their counts, but it's equally possible that the Borg supplied their own torpedoes for the job, or that the Borg modifications made to Voyager added and / or replicated more torpedoes, maybe even Starfleet-spec photons (because they're the Borg and can do pretty much anything).

Also, they left DS9 with a tricobalt warhead (?!) so who knows what other crazy WMDs they had stashed away that could be adapted and thrown at rubber-faced villains over the seven years?

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

FullbringIchigo

@RogerRoger you know you have to think if the original mission was to track down a missing ship they why would Voyager even have tricobalt weapons in the fist place? they didn't have a counsellor because as Janeway said "The nature of the mission didn't require one" but it required WMDs?

and another thing is why wouldn't slipstream work, yes in Timeless they said subspace instability caused the stream to collapse BUT that's because they was using the warp core to power the stream meaning they couldn't create a subspace field around the ship to protect it (that's how the Flyer survived as it could because Voyager created the stream) they was using all the warp power on the stream BUT Voyager had an emergency Warp Core (capable of warp 2 or 3 i think), it's even in the schematics so why didn't they use that to power the warp nacelles and create a subspace field around the ship while it was in the Slipstream

you know when you sit down and think about a LOT of Trek there are SO many simple things they don't do that would solve every problem they come across

"This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!"

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KALofKRYPTON

@RogerRoger
Thanks!
I think there's probably room to include the some of the Titan storyline. The depicted politicking on Romulus is very well done. Picard becomes somewhat crestfallen after a bad run of missions so steps away from starship command in to the diplomatic arena. Once the dust settles somewhat on Romulus he could step back in as ambassador.

I'd highly recommend at least the first two Titan books. They're short and very nicely written. Outside the constraints of a production budget - Titan is a pretty crazy ship - both in design, internal modification and the crew compliment.

😂 on the torpedo issue, there's a very entertaining Voyager torpedo inventory video on YouTube!

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"Fate: Protects fools, little children, and ships named Enterprise." - Cmdr William T. Riker

FullbringIchigo

KALofKRYPTON wrote:

Once the dust settles somewhat on Romulus he could step back in as ambassador.

and now that dust is floating where Romulus used to be
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"This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!"

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FullbringIchigo

@KALofKRYPTON @RogerRoger well it looks like the 4th Kelvinverse movie is dead and the entire Kelvinverse is done, the movie had been shelved and the director has moved on to a Game of Thrones Prequel series

that's Pine gone, Yelchin gone (rest in peace Anton) and the director now gone, it's pretty much dead now

https://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/star-trek/62661/star-trek...

"This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!"

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