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Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

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RogerRoger

@LN78 Will definitely be interested in your thoughts on The Motion Picture: Director's Cut, if you don't mind sharing. I used to have the DVD version but, as a staunch defender of the theatrical cut, really didn't get along with it (and hated how it was my only option in my 1-10 boxset).

What's even more curious to me, however, is the 4K transfer. I've started to notice how older composite special effects shots can only look "so good" (try watching something like Return of the Jedi in 4K and brace for resolution whiplash as you go from a crisp cast reaction shot on Endor to parts of the speeder bike chase) so I'm wondering how extensive the work on The Motion Picture has been. If everything's been rebuilt from the ground up, like they did with The Next Generation, then I might be tempted to give it another try, even if it means supporting the lesser cut of one of my all-time favourite movies.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

@RogerRoger I think I've seen 3 or 4 different cuts of the bloomin' thing - they're all in the wonderful collection heading my way but I do like the overall pacing of the "Director's Cut" the best. I'll let you know how the 4K/HDR transfer has been handled after I plough through the set on Sunday - as I said the reviews have had nothing but praise so I'm very optimistic.
PS I completely agree with you about the 4K versions of the OT. I watched them once and went straight back to watching my deluxe bootlegs of the "despecialized editions".

LN78

LN78

@RogerRoger Thought you'd be pleased to hear that the first disc in the wonderful "The Motion Picture" boxset - the newly remastered "Director's Edition" is absolutely splendid. One of the best 4K restorations (complete with what I'm certain are newer, shinier versions of CG models added for the DVD release) that I've seen in quite a while complete with a fantastic new audio mix (if you've got the set up for it) and a brand new commentary track that I'll listen to tomorrow when I've got the ironing board up. I suspect that the Theatrical Cut will be the same (excellent) transfer as the one included in the recent "Star Trek" movie boxset but there's also an extended (read "padded out") TV version (prepared for network broadcast in the US in the early 1980's) in the set that I saw a bootleg of a few years back - but I'm not sure if that's been shinied up to the same standard as the other versions. Factor in a whole raft of extra bits and bobs (documentaries, out--takes etc.) and this boxset really is a super niche treat for fans of the movie. If you have a spare £60 (not cheap, I know) floating around then it comes highly recommended.
PS Just had a look and it's out of stock at HMV online (where I bought mine) and it's a whopping £85 on Amazon! It's good but I don't think it's worth that much!

Edited on by LN78

LN78

RogerRoger

@LN78 Thanks for your thoughts, and I'm real glad it didn't disappoint! It's a real shame we've been lumbered with a sub-par Paramount+ service in this country, as that's how I'd have chosen to give the new Director's Cut another shot, before pulling the trigger on the boxset. Thank goodness Paramount actually bother to release things on physical media in the first place, though; am sure it'll be back in stock somewhere, at some point, and perhaps at a more reasonable price, too.

Hope you enjoy the new commentary and yeah, it'll be interesting to see if that extended TV version has been fixed, as reportedly it included a few shots with incomplete effects (and I don't just mean the odd spark or phaser beam; apparently there was a matte painting missing from the spacewalk, so you got to see William Shatner suspended in front of the sound stage's scaffolding).

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

@RogerRoger It's really nice for movie geeks to have all the extant versions of a film in one spot - WB released a similar edition for "Blade Runner" a little while back and then there was the excellent "Apocalypse Now" set. I wish they'd do something similar for "Star Wars" and the 1978 "Superman" - there are at least three different versions of that movie floating around out there.

LN78

RogerRoger

@LN78 It's funny how everybody always rags on The Motion Picture, yet Paramount are prepared to lavish all this care, attention and expense on it, and make it a shining example of how to get this kinda thing right (and it's because of that effort that people are prepared to shell out, I'm sure).

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

@RogerRoger Exactly. I'm really hoping we get scrubbed up versions of the other Berman era series for Paramount+ and perhaps even blu-ray. I remember reading that it was unlikely given the resolution that the CGI was rendered in for standard def TV broadcast (and the lousy profit margins on the fantastic "TNG" blu-ray set) but apparently there are new machine learning techniques for upscaling that might be able to achieve the feat at a fraction of the previous cost. Fingers crossed,anyway.

LN78

RogerRoger

@LN78 Yeah, I'd heard those rumours about the new process, too. The work done on The Next Generation was laborious, hence the high price of each season set, which turned folks away, but you can't argue with the results. If there is some A.I. solution out there, I just hope it's half as good.

Some fans have been upscaling the DVDs on YouTube. It's not perfect, but it's a huge improvement, and with a little tweaking here and there, even the creaky old CGI holds up.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

RogerRoger

@LN78 Yesterday my partner kindly made it possible for us to watch the fancy new Director's Edition of The Motion Picture together, by buying the standard theatrical cut on Apple TV+ for a couple of quid and then accessing its newer version via the service's seamless branching.

You weren't kidding, it really is something special. As much as I still dislike the changes made to the original editing and sound design, there's no denying that 98% of the movie is never gonna look or sound better. The wormhole sequence, my goodness! I felt like I was right there, standing on the bridge or flying alongside the Enterprise, depending on the shot. Phenomenal work!

The only problem was, it made the shots they couldn't rescue stand out more. There were two really jarring examples (the terrible rotoscoping in the observation lounge chat, and one of the 2004 CGI shots towards the end, when everybody's walking up to V'Ger) which were unfortunate. I'm sure there's a good reason for why they were overlooked, or why they couldn't be improved, and I'm not gonna condemn the whole two hours and sixteen minutes for what probably amounts to sixty seconds of fuzzy footage. If anything, it just exemplifies the outstanding work done elsewhere.

Like I said, the movie (which, let's not forget, was originally rushed and rendered in stereo) never gonna look or sound better. Very, very impressive indeed, and absolutely sets a new standard.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

@RogerRoger Both of those shots were brought up as unsatisfactory by the restoration people on the commentary track! You've got good eyes.

LN78

RogerRoger

@LN78 Interesting! Wonder why they were rushed out, then? I know every project has a budget and deadline, but it's not like this was a tentpole release for anything.

Oh well. Let's be honest, two shots out of hundreds? Hardly worth mentioning.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

@RogerRoger I know that with the V'ger approach shot they said it was the best of a bad bunch - I remember the equivalent shot in the theatrical cut is a really terrible matte painting! The dodgy rotoscoping is a little more mysterious but as you said there has to be a reason they left it as is. Who knows?

LN78

RogerRoger

@LN78 Well, we checked back on the theatrical cut, and the original shot was also rotoscoped, against a smaller window, so perhaps they lost the original footage and could only upscale the completed effects shot? It's also a shame that the starfield beyond was crisp and clear, especially when the bulkhead and window frame was out of focus. That always annoys me. I reckon if they'd softened it all up (which seems counter to the whole 4K sharpening restoration goal, but hey) it wouldn't have been so jarring.

Speaking of Picard (since you mentioned it elsewhere) I've just pre-ordered the second season's steelbook, to match the one I got cheap for the first season. As impressed as I was with The Motion Picture, I can't justify the expense of the 4K Blu-Ray, especially since it's my partner who's got the proper gear for Atmos and Vision. When it's just me in my apartment, my theatrical Blu-Ray will do.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

@RogerRoger That seems like a reasonable explanation. Thanks for bringing up your "Picard" pre-order. I owe my brother an ironic hate gift (after his oh so amusing "Clone Wars" donation last Christmas) so I might order one of those "Picard" sets for him. He hates seeing beloved childhood heroes being reduced to embarrassing laughing stocks in badly written, misconceived vanity projects almost as much as I do. I'm sure he'll see the funny side.

LN78

RogerRoger

@LN78
Untitled

Never change.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

Louise Fletcher - who played the second best baddie in "DS9" and one of the greatest cinematic baddies of all times in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" has died. She was a fantastic actor. Sad news.

LN78

RogerRoger

@LN78 Sad indeed. I loved to hate Kai Winn, which is a testament to how good an actor she was.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

So in "Picard" Season 3 they've turned Worf (however temporarily) into a pacifist.

LN78

RogerRoger

@LN78 If anybody can sell it, it's Michael Dorn. Besides, intercut with this revelation, we see him locked in combat with another character, so I'm guessing it won't be that simple.

Two outstanding trailers from SDCC this weekend, although the Picard one spoils way too much.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

LN78

@RogerRoger Hence "however temporarily". Do they have somebody on staff at Secret Hideout to come up with the most dim-witted ideas possible so that Kurtzman's brick headed dundering comes across as partially intelligent? That "Picard" trailer is beyond awful - of course you liked it.

Edited on by LN78

LN78

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