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Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

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RogerRoger

@nessisonett It was a Writer's Strike. Hence why the script is basically "He's feeling violent!" [show clips of fighting] "He's feeling horny!" [show clips of kissing] "Okay, he's all better now."

Also explains episodes like the aforementioned "The Child" being repurposed scripts from previous Trek projects. I love the second season, it has some of the show's highest highs ("Measure of a Man", "Q Who?" and "Unnatural Selection") but it also boasts some undeniable dumpster fires.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger yeah I did the same thing with my day structure, it was awful. Waking up early and going to bed late in order to maximise the tasks I could do that had long cool down timers! I managed to quit Simpsons when a monthly event was impossible to complete without the premium currency leaving me unable to collect the original Seymour Skinner as a character. I planned to "complete" Animal Crossing Pocket camp by collecting all the items available by the point I quit. Just as I was a few items away from completing the catalog, they introduced lootboxes which made it impossible to complete, so I stopped it. Haven't got into a similar game since thankfully! 🤞

I actually still really like Dark Phoenix, they never managed to adapt the storyline properly but they still made a couple of entertaining films out of it. I think the The Last Stand was disappointing at the time because pre MCU, I would imagine fans would think this is the one and only chance to get the story right. Even prior to Dark Pheonix, many films have proved that these stories will get adapted multiple times so I definitely just enjoy them for what they are now. I'm sure that third time will be the charm for a true adaptation of the Pheonix saga. I really liked the music in Dark Pheonix though, and one really cool scene had Nightcrawler going berserker in that train toward the end which kind of leads into his self flaggelating and questionable persona that you see in X men 2.

It's definitely not fake or ingratiating for me either. It's just kind of the economy of relationships. You wouldn't go to your dentist for a haircut. Some people scratch certain itches for me and likewise im sure I do the same for them!

Ive had a gnarly ear infection for the last few days so I haven't started season 2 yet I've been engaging in some easy entertainment, played through a couple of Splinter Cell games and watched the last few episodes of Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow that I never got around to in the last TV season.

I generally don't mind misogyny and sexism and whatever other isms in TV shows as long as they are part of the show and are sort of built upon in the narrative. Like Kirk's racism towards Klingons that kind of gets built upon in the films. People are complicated in shows, as they are in real life. Sometimes a person's entire being can be antithetical to your own point of view but in a crisis, there might not be a person you'd rather have at your side. Less dramatically though, there lots of good things about people and lots of bad things. Sometimes the good outweighs the bad and sometimes it doesn't. However, it normally makes for good television!

Anyway, hopefully my ear gets better in the next few days and I can get back on my Trek through the stars. I don't think I've had an ear infection since I was a kid and it is unbelievably painful. I literally have no recollection of having this much pain in my life before. Sorry if that's TMI it's kind of gross 😅.

See ya!

nessisonett

Poor Pulaski. She literally just disappears between seasons. I do like Beverly but it’s still a bit rubbish because I really liked Pulaski and her interactions with Data were brilliant.

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

RogerRoger

@nessisonett Always nice to see another Pulaski fan. She's often the target of a lot of hate, unfairly so, but I wholeheartedly prefer her to Crusher (although that's no reflection on Gates McFadden). Have fun spotting the early Season Three episodes where Crusher has lots of personality, because those scripts were originally written for Pulaski before she bailed.

@ralphdibny Not only highlighting the problem with free-to-play mobile gaming there, but also modern games of any platform which continually update themselves. With apologies for the mixed sports metaphors, moving the goalposts when you're halfway through something just isn't cricket.

Dark Phoenix wasn't offensively bad, it was just, kinda... there. Which isn't a crime in and of itself, but I watched it after Apocalypse (which I really enjoyed, more than I expected to) and not long after a marathon of all the films, and the change in overall quality just hit pretty hard. I'm glad you managed to enjoy it, though! I should give it a second shot at some point, because it's the only one I haven't re-watched (well, that and Logan, but I'd need to mentally prepare ahead of that).

Awesome turn of phrase! I wouldn't go to the dentist for a haircut, no!

Sorry to hear you haven't been feeling well lately. Hope you're feeling better by now? And which Splinter Cell games did you replay? Love that franchise!

I agree with you about the complexity of the human condition, which is exactly what great Star Trek has always been about. I do sometimes feel that efforts to "devolve" human characters come off as mean-spirited and unnecessarily bleak (kinda like Kirk, but moreso Sisko) but that's because I'm protective of the overall message of the shows, namely that humanity can and will get better in the future. I get that some writers had contemporary perspectives and chafed against such a "restriction" but I'd argue that, if you can't get creative within the parameters of a premise, you shouldn't be writing for said show. That isn't to discredit anybody's contribution to Star Trek, nor to overlook the incredible actors who've delivered some really powerful moments, but... eh, that's just me.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger ahh apocalypse is really good! Logan is certainly difficult to watch. I really don't think it's as good as everybody made it out to be, by no means is it the best X men film but it is good, just incredibly bleak. I remember the director being really big headed about it and condescending to other super hero films and their post credits stingers, bearing in mind that the directors previous film The Wolverine was a superhero film and had a post credits stinger. The Wolverine also fell into all the trappings that can make a superhero film bad as well by starting off really good and well paced before devolving into a nonsensical CGI fest.

Yeah definitely over the hump, painkillers and antibiotics have got me through it! I've played the first 3 splinter cells so far and in the past I've also played the then current gen version of double agent. This time I'll be playing the next gen version of double agent, essentials, conviction and blacklist (all of which I've never played before - one of the few downsides of only having a Wii at the time!)

Well I've always thought a creative restriction can make art a lot better, it can help you focus an idea which (almost) always makes it a lot better. The idea of the human utopia offers a lot of downsides which is partially what makes DS9 and voyager so good, because they explore its effect on both those that are not part of the utopia and those who are but have to face those that aren't.

One could argue as well that while humanity is mostly united under one set of idealogies, the alien races in the show are kind of based off of the different cultures of Earth today. Which is why they often bring up ideas of homogenisation and conformity as their main gripes. The federation is more colonial too, i.e. their space expands and assimilates other cultures but usually if it's an alien "immigrating" to the federation they have much less difficulty conforming to the rules than if the federation absorbed their government (willingly on the government's part but maybe not so much on the part of the people they represent).

On this point, and I can't remember if it was picked up on in DS9, I always wondered how Starfleet personnel bought stuff on the station. I did wonder that if in lieu of pay they were just given an allocation of gold pressed latinum to so they can kind of fit in and help the local economy.

I think Kirk's racism was kind of understandable but obviously short sighted. If I remember correctly, Klingons killed his son and he became massively bigoted to all Klingons because of it. Anger and blind rage filled him so much that he made a sweeping generalisation of all Klingons. It's obviously the wrong thing for him to do but it makes him all the more human because anger really clouds our judgement in a lot of ways (and focuses it in others). If for some reason humans didn't suffer from being human (I guess that's the best way to put it) then it would probably devolve the argument into why? Is it drugs that will suppress our emotions? Genetic tampering? Mass brainwashing? The only really good solution is us actually learning to be better and we can't learn without making the mistakes first. Unfortunately it's difficult to teach because humanity often needs to see the consequences of their actions first hand, or at least in recent-ish memory to be able to take it on board. You can't teach a plank, and unfortunately there's a load of absolute planks in this world 😂. You can bend, carve, break and generally manipulate planks though which is not a great way to go about things because you turn it into something that it's not.

Sorry that made no sense at all and was a silly comparison 😂

I will say though that both utopias and dystopias are rarely depicted in fiction (and to an extent in history) as being good things. Having everything you want and also having nothing you want usually results in stagnation or oppression respectively. Neither allow for growth. I think it's good that the federation isn't a complete utopia because it allows them to grow (and make more TV seasons about it to entertain us!). Even stuff like the android rights and holographic person rights stuff from next gen and voyager show aspects of growth within the federation. I do understand they take a step backward with regards to the former in Picard (which I haven't seen but I heard about it) but the stunting will hopefully just allow them to grow beyond it in future.

I hope the world does get better though, but remember that Star Trek's earth got better after a eugenics war followed by a nuclear war so we better buckle up if we want it to happen! 😭

See ya!

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny Yeah, I wasn't as impressed by Logan as I expected to be (although the central performances from Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart were very, very good indeed). I hadn't heard that about the director, but it doesn't surprise me. My copy of it includes the "Logan Noir" version, so I might give that a shot at some point; might shake things up enough to make it worthwhile.

Glad you're feeling better but, be warned, the PS360 version of Splinter Cell: Double Agent might make you feel suddenly worse again! I'll be interested in your thoughts!

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. It's ironic that the Federation's worst enemy is also one that expands and assimilates other cultures into conformity, and there's definitely a comparative argument to be made there. Just how much freedom does "free will" afford you, in a society which still enforces a strict rule of law? This isn't me rallying against any of these concepts, nor advocating a total breakdown of the criminal justice system; I just find the debate to be an interesting thought experiment, s'all (and that's a thing the Borg would never allow, so I guess we have a winner).

Deep Space Nine often has to fudge the money issue, as there's most definitely an economy on the station and yet, concurrently, you've got Picard telling Lily that "money doesn't exist in the 24th Century" (at least with regards to Earth and humanity) so I think there was some friction between the compartmentalised productions on that. I always just saw DS9 as a multicultural hub, needing to cater for any and all. You could probably use the replicators in your quarters free of charge, but you'd wanna pay at Quark's because of the social atmosphere, or something. Starfleet officers who weren't lucky enough to win their commbadge back at the dabo table were destined to go thirsty at the bar!

No apology necessary; I actually followed your plank analogy! And I agree with it, too. When you reach those movies and see Kirk's character explored (it only really happens in The Undiscovered Country, and is resolved by the time the credits roll) I think you'll see your musings vindicated. To make the overall point that it makes, it was worth doing; like I said, I have a bigger problem with Sisko's darker moments because I struggle to find any kind of justification for them. They feel like a real-world writer's mean-spirited rant against the restrictions of their job, rather than the logical evolution of an ongoing character already well-established within a fictional universe.

I won't be pretentious enough to quote from my own fan fiction, but I recently wrote a chapter where two characters argued about intervening on a planet where they knew a disaster was about to happen; one wanted to warn them and save lives, and the other refused. The whole back-and-forth covers your "continuing evolution" and "things only improve in the wake of suffering" points and I think you're right, I think the best Star Trek has shown that it's necessary to take a few steps back, in order to make the run up to a big leap. At least we've passed the window for the Eugenics Wars (unless I was taking a nap in 1996 and missed the news bulletin somehow)!

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Kidfried

nessisonett wrote:

@RogerRoger Looking at Netflix, it’s actually the S2 finale, Shades of Grey next! I have no idea why I didn’t just finish the season 😂

Took me a while to figure out this was Star Trek and not... you know, E.L. James.

Kidfried

nessisonett

@Kidfried Believe me, it would have been a whole lot more interesting if it was E.L. James!

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger it doesn't shake it up much believe me. It's just Logan...in black and white lol. It's such a weird thing to do for a film, black and white used to be used because colour film was too expensive. Now it must cost them a fair amount to convert something to black and white because they have to adjust the contrast of individual colours in each shot so they look good in black and white. I don't really get it, occasionally black and white is used stylistically nowadays but a full blown Logan Noir is just a bit of a bonkers decision.

Did you not get on with the "next gen" Double Agent? What's up with it? I enjoyed the "current gen" version but I always pined over the more advanced version. I'm sure it's quite different but I guess I'll find out soon enough!

Yeah it is kinda weird that the Borg hold up a dark and twisted mirror to the federation. I wonder if that was their original intention or whether it just came out that way. I wonder when this money thing came into play too. The characters in TOS are always making reference to their wages, it seems a bit too frequent for it to be tongue in cheek. I'm guessing they dropped currency altogether in the time between this show and next gen.

I'm struggling to remember anything that felt out of place on DS9. Was there anything in particular that Sisko did that was done without remorse? I remember he was in a very sticky situation. In the middle of a war on the edges of space with fanatics on both sides. I'm sure he had to make some tough decisions. I'd have to rewatch it though to give any more thoughts than that. It was a bit of a (really fun) rollercoaster toward the end when I watched it last time. I blitzed through it because it was so entertaining.

I've watched Doomsday Machine now, what were your thoughts on it? It was a really good episode and interestingly, Matthew Decker is one of the captain's that pops up on screen when Saru asks the computer what makes the best captains good at their jobs (or something like that) in Discovery.

Generally, most episodes have been really good now the show has gotten into its own rhythm. They know the interplay between Spock, Kirk and McCoy is really entertaining so they frequently play it up.

See ya!

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny Yeah, I always found black-and-white a little pretentious (looking at you, Casino Royale) but as a novelty, and for a film I've only seen the once before, I might still give it a shot. I do tend to veer towards the bonkers anyway, so I'll probably like it better!

I played Double Agent on PS3 and it was a nightmare. It's the worst port of anything I've ever played, with cutscenes missing (so the plot made zero sense), a slideshow framerate and some abhorrent graphical issues. The gameplay and level design itself seemed okay, when I could focus on it, but felt incredibly linear in places. Compared to Chaos Theory, it was a major step backwards. I'd actually love to get the PS2 port someday, as I've heard better things!

I think the whole money thing was Gene Roddenberry's idea when developing The Next Generation, it being the 1980s and capitalism being what it was. Rick Berman was careful to preserve a lot of Gene's philosophies, and it was no secret that he kinda let Deep Space Nine do its own thing (he preferred the "ship shows") so I reckon that, coupled with the presence of the reinvented Ferengi, allowed the money issue gain a foothold. Remember that the Ferengi were supposed to be the "new Klingons" for TNG, making the enemy one of individual greed and avarice in the face of a more inclusive, semi-socialist utopia. Gene wasn't shy about his politics!

You'll eventually watch an episode of DS9 entitled "In the Pale Moonlight" and whilst many hold it up as one of the greatest episodes of all time, I can't stand it, and think it's the worst. Don't get me wrong; as a piece of dramatic television, it's wonderfully acted and executed... but it's also a deliberate and vindictive character assassination, of Sisko and of a positive future for humanity. It comes across as bitter and nihilistic, undermining any hopeful message Star Trek had hoped to broadcast and replacing it with a mean-spirited "Guess what, guys? We're all rubbish, and we'll always be rubbish!"

But hey, that's just me. I'll be interested in your perspective when you get there!

Star Trek has been to the Captain Ahab well many times over the years, but I reckon "The Doomsday Machine" is one of the best examples (perhaps by virtue of being the first). It just held up to modern viewing standards better than most original series episodes, I thought. Great performances, great premise, great action and great music, all directed and edited really well. I didn't realise Decker popped up on that Discovery screen! Was probably too busy going "Archer! Squee!!" to notice.

This ongoing conversation got me curious about the original series, and I fired up Netflix to watch a couple random episodes earlier in the week. I had a better time with some than I remembered (although I was cherry-picking) so I think it helps to be in the right mood. Glad you're still having fun!

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger ahh fair enough! I've been playing the hd trilogy of splinter cell and it has got terrible frame rate for some reason, especially for the first 2 games. I wonder if double agent is just bad on ps3, as a lot of multiplatform games were developed for 360 and had to make sacrifices when ported to PS3. I heard ps3 was more powerful but harder to develop for so the multiplatform games often performed worse on it. I'll be playing double agent on Xbox one X so hopefully it gets some sort of performance boost anyway even if it was rubbish on the 360!

I can't believe the ferengi were supposed to be the new Klingons! They are such a joke race by DS9 it's hard to imagine, almost just a parody of western civilisation. I'll keep an eye out for that pale moonlight episode for sure. It's weird because I always loved Sisko, he's one of my fave commanders/captains just because he was so funny. Like he'd always laugh a lot in a high pitched voice or he'd be serious when he needed to be and then just laugh in private afterward. I watched bill shatners interview with him on the Captain's documentary (which was a really weird documentary anyway, especially when he got to Chris Pine) and Avery Brooks just seemed a bit nuts in real life. He answered all the questions in song while playing the piano. I'm surprised he could keep a straight face at all when filming DS9! I need to watch that What We Left behind documentary that's just about DS9 at some point.

There was another Ahab episode not long after that one called Obsession where Kirk wants to stick around and fight a gas cloud. It's not handled nearly as well as Doomsday Machine or First Contact. It kind of ends with a vindication of Kirk's obsession with jumps in logic from Spock to help and it never addresses the life or death circumstances that Kirk is avoiding by going after this cloud. I think it missed the point of that sort of narrative and should've ended in a more bittersweet way but I guess they just had to make the Captain win at everything. It's weird because there's a lot of episodes where sacrifices get made and not many endings are truly good ones so I do wonder why this one had to be.

Are there any eps that stick out to you that you've watched recently? Any thoughts on them? I thought the Journey to Babel episode reminded me of some modern television, a delicate diplomatic situation muddied espionage and sabotag with Spock being out of commission under precarious circumstances. Likewise an episode (the something Years, can't remember exactly) where everybody becomes old and an inexperienced commodore has to take control of the ship while they find a cure. Naturally they end up in the neutral zone and Kirk gets better just in time to save the day. I don't think they're nearly as highbrow as the Doomsday Machine but they felt modern in their chaotic plotlines!

See ya!

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny From what I understand, the Xbox360 version is a little better, yeah. Ubisoft didn't support a lot of their early PS3 games (for whatever reason) and so I've been left with poor ports of the Rainbow Six: Vegas games of late, as well. Fingers crossed you don't encounter any issues!

It was totally their execution in "The Last Outpost" (TNG) which ruined the Ferengi because, on paper, there was a lot for the Federation to be scared of. According to anecdotes, Armin Shimmerman took the role of Quark in order to "undo some of the damage" he'd caused in that first Ferengi episode, as he'd played one of them and hammed it up to eleven. I'd say he succeeded; one terrible cross-dressing dalliance aside, Quark was one of my favourite characters on Deep Space Nine.

And yes, I've seen that documentary! Something was going on with Avery Brooks that day, for sure. I thought he might've fallen ill, but I've seen subsequent interviews with him where he's comparatively "normal" (for want of a better word; I wouldn't have a problem communicating with somebody via a piano... maybe Shatner just brings out people's inner quirks).

I never really warmed to "Obsession" either, to the point where I forgot about it when posting earlier, and mistakenly called "The Doomsday Machine" the first example of an Ahab episode! D'oh! For a better bittersweet ending, I watched "Balance of Terror" the other day. A very well-made Cold War submarine thriller, complete with the potential spy amidst the ranks (Spock, since he looks Romulan) and honour between the competing commanders. The fact that you've got that young couple, and the chap dies and his fiancé is left behind... and then she turns to Kirk and says "I'll be okay" and we're left with Kirk staring into middle distance, very obviously not okay... that, I really liked.

I'm only watching the odd episode here and there, so won't engage with the vast majority of the show and will probably get sidetracked in a couple days. I did enjoy "The Naked Time" as a very broad parable against intoxication (a message I feel as important to stress today as it would've been in the 60s) and am currently scrolling around the tail end of the first season.

Ah yes, "The Deadly Years" is pretty good, from what I remember. Great performances through some really uncomfortable old-age makeup in that episode! Alas, outside of Enterprise (when they were made edgy and interesting) Vulcans tend to bore me, but I remember "Journey to Babel" having some good diplomatic stuff in it, absolutely. It's nice to get a less Earth-centric view of the Federation.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger I can't believe they cut out the cut scenes in the PS3 version! I'm about half way through double agent now and it is actually really good. It plays and looks really good but I'm not sure how much that's to do with the base 360 game or the Xbox one X backwards compatibility. It's actually ridiculous how good it can make old games look and run sometimes. I was considering getting the Xbox versions of the first 3 games because the clips of them running in Xbox BC look so good compared to the PS3 HD trilogy even though theyre only in 4:3 instead of widescreen.

I'm also surprised just how similar this game is to the first 3 in terms of how it plays, I thought it was going to be vastly different but apart from the green light on your back standing in for the darkness meter, it's really similar to chaos theory. Obviously the missions are different because you are taking orders from JBA instead of NSA and the JBA HQ missions are a bit of a novelty too. One bit really got me in this game though (so far). There's like a ship stuck in ice that you have to commandeer but Sam is just kind of thrown into the mission blind with no contact from Lambert. The JBA order him to murder all the bridge crew and by the time Sam finally gets in touch with Lambert, he explains the situation and there is such despair in his voice. It was almost the best voice acting I've heard Michael Ironside give in the whole series so far!

I found Captains to be really awkward, if I remember correctly it was really bigging up Shatner which is hardly modest when it's his documentary. It's great when the other actors get a word in edgewise though lol. It is a good documentary, just a little self indulgent on Shatner's part.

Quark is really cool, I love Rom and Nog though. I think Nog is one of my favourite characters in the show and I only found out a couple of weeks ago that the actor had died when I was watching a zoom call on YouTube between the DS9 actors. I think it was supposed to replace some convention appearance. I knew that Odo had passed but it's really sad about both of them. It's a bit weird saying one of my favourite characters anyway because all of the DS9 cast were my favourites by the end! Except maybe Ezri as she wasn't there long enough for me to warm to her as much as Jadzia.

Obsession is after Doomsday Machine in my DVDs so no mistake there! Balance of Terror is just brilliant, it's notable you say Cold War submarine thriller because I was thinking Cuban Missile Crisis when I was watching it...but you know, without the X-Men being there... (Because that's totally factual and I learn my history from video games and movies because it's much easier to follow 😅, The Boss was the first woman in space right?!)

I think Naked Time is great just for Sulu fencing shirtless around the ship 😂. My brother actually got me an aftershave for Christmas once (I don't wear aftershave) that was called Sulu and had a portion of a still from that episode of a shirtless Sulu with his sword (or foil) but all glammed up to look like professional cologne.

There was another episode called Apple that had something really notable about it that was so notable that I've completely forgotten what it was 🤦🏻‍♂️. I think I just didn't remember it at all from when I watched the show last. It's one that has tall oompa loompas in it and a cave shaped like a snake head, a cross between Aladdin and Jumanji. Weird episode but it was quite funny.

I think I've always liked the Vulcans but as you say it's probably because of Enterprise, as that was the first Trek I watched in its entirety. But it did carry on through TOS because apart from his early episode victim blaming, Nimoy's Spock is just brilliant!

See ya!

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny I'm glad you're enjoying Double Agent more than I did. Not sure I recall too many glaring framerate issues with the PS3's HD Trilogy, but I do remember a couple of momentary stutters, and it's certainly been a while. I quite like keeping older games 4:3 when revisiting them; even if a PS2 game supports a widescreen mode, I leave it square. Must be a tradition thing!

I remember the ship stuck in ice, but I don't remember the voice acting. It was probably cut on PS3 as well, which is even more annoying now! Will definitely track down the PS2 version.

Shatner's an original quality. I love him because I think 90% of everything he does deliberately plays up to this perceived personality that society has constructed for him; that being said, you can also tell that he's spent a lifetime being told that he's the "leading man" and of course that's gonna have an effect. I felt that Patrick Stewart and Kate Mulgrew held their own against him pretty well, and delivered the most interesting segments. Have you seen his Chaos on the Bridge documentary? It's on Netflix, I believe (or Prime... one of the two). Now there's a film where his ego plays a role!

Nog was amazing. I loved his episode with Vic Fontaine, where he's coming to terms with his injury and hiding out in the holosuites. Such a shame to lose Aron Eisenberg so young and yeah, I had the same reaction to Rene Auberjonois passing away (although he had a much better innings). I really liked Ezri, but I think that's because Jadzia was my least-favourite character. That isn't a criticism in any way, and Terry Farrell did great work on the show; she just didn't connect with me.

Ah, thanks! Like I say, the original series is the one I'm least familiar with. Wasn't just the X-Men caught up in the Cuban Missile Crisis, by the way... Sam Fisher was, too! Michael Ironside played the US Navy captain in First Class. Our conversations have so many layers!

My goodness, that bottle of "Sulu" sounds hilarious! Where the heck did he find that?! My brother once got me some "Romulan Ale" and we had a good laugh at the label.

I know the episode you mean, yeah. Its morality is a little fuzzy. Kirk deciding to interfere with a planet's culture and blow up their sustaining supercomputer because it threatens the Enterprise isn't executed with any grace or depth. It's also one of the most "sixties" episodes I remember, with a whole promiscuity undercurrent which I found a little uncomfortable. It's nowhere near as bad as "The Way to Eden" (which you'll get to later) but it shares some of its DNA, if I recall correctly.

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger ah fair enough! Might be just my PS3 getting old then or because I'm so used to good frame rates on PS4 and Xbox that PS3 games are starting to show their age. Weirdly I actually like to play games at whatever is the best setting they can do, I won't do stretched or cropped games but if it can put out widescreen then I'd prefer that. Obviously I like my TV and film how it was intended/shown originally but I guess that's basically the same, I won't watch anything cropped or stretched.

On that note actually, that was something I found really weird about Discovery Season 2, is that it is in super narrow wide screen compared to the first season. I was pining for the extra real estate on that show. I guess it was done like that to make it seem more cinematic (or cut down in CGI budgets) but it is a TV show and I'd rather not have the black bars on something that's made for TV, I'm sure people don't have super narrow TVs!

I think that call with Lambert is an optional objective like a lot of the objectives in Double Agent so it might not have triggered when you played. I've finished it now and also played through Splinter Cell Essentials which was quite good too. Some of it is recycled levels with different level layouts but there is a fair amount of original levels so it was good to play. The only annoying thing is how the controls are mapped, you hold down circle and use the left stick to move the camera, there was no option to map the camera to the d pad (which in turn gets mapped to the right stick on the DS4 as I was playing it on the PSTV) so it controlled really awkwardly as a whole.

Nah I haven't seen Chaos on the bridge but I'll look it up (even if I don't get around to watching it for ages). I'm not sure about Shat to be honest, it's probably more complicated than it's just his ego. There probably is a deep seated insecurity that almost the only people who love him are Trekkies but I don't think is actual ego is disingenuous. He's a bit like a washed up wrestler like Ric Flair or something. But who knows lol I'm no psychoanalyst!

Oh yeah I forgot Ironside was in X men first class! The only other film I can think that he's in that I've seen is the machinist which is a bit of a grim (but good) film that I'm not keen to rewatch. I seem to vaguely remember a story about him turning down a film or TV role where he'd play a wheelchair user because he thought there'd be too much similarity between his surname and the TV show Ironside where the character uses a wheelchair. Like maybe it was to do with typecasting or something.

God knows where he got that cologne from! Is Romulan ale blue? Or is that Andorian ale? Not sure if I'd have the stomach for it (though I'm sure it just tastes like one of our normal earth flavours!)

See ya!

ralphdibny

Just looked up Michael Ironside and I forgot he was in total recall, starship troopers, terminator 4, smallville and the flash. I do remember him on all that stuff now that I've looked at his filmography

See ya!

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny Michael Ironside has been in a lot, yeah. He always pops up when I least expect him, and then am totally distracted by his voice, which is one of my all-time favourites.

I once tried playing an old Bond game on PS2 in widescreen mode, and gameplay looked great but its cinematic aspect ratio cutscenes got all screwed up. I think that made me pine for the consistency of its default 4:3 mode and I never looked back, but fair play all the same!

Can't recall where, but I think I saw something about a decision being made to unify the presentation across all of the new Star Trek shows. Picard was in letterbox, so they shifted Discovery to the same for its second season. I could be wrong, though, as I haven't seen the new episodes of its third season yet, and they might've shifted back. As long as the aspect ratio doesn't change mid-episode or mid-movie (hate it when that happens) then I don't mind what they pick.

Hmm, okay. I'd avoided Splinter Cell Essentials but your thoughts on the game have made me wanna check it out. Might boot up my PS Vita and track it down. Thanks!

Shatner's had one heck of a life. I'm not a follower of celebrity, but the bits of his story that I've pieced together over the years would give him licence to be equal parts arrogant and humble. I don't think your take on him is wide of the mark, at all. From leading man to washed-up, trailer-dwelling deadbeat, back to leading man and then settling somewhere around the "beloved character actor" mark (and winning his Emmy for Boston Legal, what a great show) he's certainly gonna have gathered a wide range of perspectives and attitudes towards things, let's put it that way!

Romulan Ale is blue, yes (which made my brother's gag gift even funnier, because whatever paint thinner they'd shoved in the bottle was a very dark brown). I don't drink alcohol, but was reassured that it tasted "properly toxic" so dodged a bullet there, I reckon!

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger in most of the films I mentioned Ironside loses an arm too so it's kind of notable that he apparently turns down roles where he'd use a wheelchair. He is brilliant though!

Ah yeah I forget about the cutscenes not always matching the rest of the game, I think the first splinter cell on the HD trilogy had massive formatting issues with its cut scenes. I'm not sure how much I exactly recommend Essentials, I guess you are a bit like me in that if you play a series then you want to hunt down every (at the very least moderately canonical) game and give it a go, so have at it I suppose!

I've been having a break from Trek, I couldn't face the occasionally harsh audio and set design after playing Doom VFR this week. I know it sounds a bit weird but VR makes me real queasy so I needed some light entertainment in the evenings instead. So we've watched all 3 Ghostbusters films and played the game (my first time with the game and the remake which were both pretty good!). Also watched Evolution and Stripes and will probably watch some more films that has any of or a combo of Bill Murray, Harold Ramis and Ivan Reitman this weekend!

See ya!

RogerRoger

@ralphdibny Ah, but in movies, losing a limb is mostly 'armless.

[...]

I regret nothing.

Most of my attraction to Tom Clancy games is atmospheric, so I can overlook clunky gameplay or glitchy audio and enjoy soaking up the MIL-SPEC details. I'd just avoided Essentials after playing the terrible PS3 port of its bigger brother, but I should give it a chance to stand apart.

And no worries, that's totally understandable! Virtual reality doesn't agree with me either (although for different reasons) so I can sympathise. Always got to lean on some comfort viewing whenever you're feeling rough! My couple of Star Trek episodes didn't go much further than... well, than a literal couple, in the end. With the second season of The Mandalorian getting underway, and with a good friend binge-watching a lot of the animated Star Wars shows recently, I can feel myself being dragged into a Sarlacc Pit of inescapable fanboyism for a while. I'll try and keep things balanced, and am always up for discussing Star Trek regardless, so do give us a shout if and when you feel like shooting the breeze!

"We want different things, Crosshair. That doesn't mean that we have to be enemies."

PSN: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

ralphdibny

@RogerRoger 😂 Im sure the roles he turned down cost him an arm and a leg. Also, unrelated but I just thought this one up.... What happened to Aragorn when he got drunk Rivendell? He ended up getting legolas.... (As in legless...as in drunk....ok I'll stop now too 😅)

Had to look up mil-spec and was also shown MIL-STD in the process and I am a bit too childish not too laugh lol. I haven't really played any other Tom Clancy games, I think splinter cell just filled the MGS shaped hole I had from owning a GameCube at the time but I still love it nonetheless!

Enjoy your star wars! Ill get back to Trek eventually and I'll be sure to tag you when I do but I might stick with my old comedy films for a while. I watched analyse this/that and blues brothers 1+2 today, I seriously forgot how funny and brilliant some of these movies were

Edit: just found this Simpsons clip from my nightly trying to sleep YouTube viewing and thought I'd share:

Edited on by ralphdibny

See ya!

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