Topic: Ten Forward - The Star Trek Topic

@LN78 i guess so, you could always wait for a DVD release, if it gets one of course

@LN78 10 episodes i think they said

They just had to throw in that sodding ship! 🙄

so i didn't watch Picard yesterday morning as i had stuff to do but i did watch it before i went to bed and it was decent, a bit slower then last weeks but still a good episode

now onto the meat of it first off Picards friend/Doctor was talking about his health and how there is an issue with his mind, this could be a indication of Irumodic Syndrome, a illness Picard had in the alternate future seen in the TNG final episode "All Good Things" and which Doctor Crusher told him about in the present timeline segment of that episode and if so it's an awesome call back to that episode

now on to Narek, i'm still not sure if he is a bad guy or not, it's pretty ambivalent because we know what his mission is now but he seems to have misgivings about it, like he isn't fully committed to it

and this leads into the attack on Mars, we get to see a bit of it this episode in a small segment that saw the Synthetics attack the shipyards, the computer also mentioned that they were hacked, could this new Romulan faction, the Zhat Vash have been behind it in their crusade to wipe out all synthetic life and on that note, what happened in the past that made them so angry towrds them? PLUS they have agents at Starfleet command

on a side note they brought back the rank of Commodore, i thought that was a nice throwback, not seen any of those since TOS

and we also learn that Laris and Zhaban were members of the Tal Shiar so they should be useful in the future

and Picard also met up with Raffi (not a spoiler as we saw it in the trailers and knew it would happen), his first officer during the Romulan crisis, back then she had respect for Picard so i wonder what went down between them?

all in all this was a set up episode, leading into the main meat to follow but it's looking good so far

@KALofKRYPTON which ship?

It was an ok episode but rather slow. Looking forward to them going into space.

@LN78 don't know honestly

@LN78 Because of Laris's accent I assume.
@FullbringIchigo didn't you notice the Dicso-prise holo?

@KALofKRYPTON yes i did, i even said out loud, "that's gonna piss of the fanboys"

personally i have no issue with the design of the Disco-prise, it's a decent enough design it just doesn't fit with what we know it should look like at that time BUT CBS have pretty much retconed the design now, even one of the animated short treks, Ephraim and Dot that takes place during Space Seed used that design and as much as we or others might not like it, that's what it is now

it wouldn't surprise me if CBS (ViacomCBS now) doesn't release a remaster of TOS replacing the original Enterprise with the Discovery one or out right reboots it

but i do have a theory that can make both the right ones try not to think about Discovery as a prequel to TOS but a sequel to Enterprise which itself was a sequel to First Contact, my theory is that the events of First contact changed history slightly leading to a slightly different 22nd, 23rd and early 24th century basically everything from the Vulcans arriving on earth to the point the Enterprise E returns to the 24th century was changed a bit, so the events of TOS are technically an alternate timeline now, TNG and the first 4 seasons of DS9 happened pretty much the same with little to no change but it would explain things like why Data couldn't find any info about a hole in space even though it happened in The Immunity Syndrome, why Picard was bald at Starfleet academy in Nemesis and why ships were more advanced in design during Discovery, after all we saw the Borg Sphere from FC in Enterprise so we know history was changed at least a bit and you can't say Lily wouldn't have written something down about the Enterprise E at some point like what she saw on board

it's a bit of a stretch i admit BUT it would explain everything

I really enjoyed this week's episode of Picard, although not as much as the premiere. This was a lot of set-up, a lot of moving the chess pieces into place. For such a blatant forty minutes of this, however, I was still entertained, thanks largely to the excellent cast and teasing, unanswered questions.

What I didn't like, at least initially, was the shock-value stonewall Picard encountered at Starfleet Headquarters, of all places. I knew the organisation had changed, but this felt like a somewhat immature and sudden erosion of Gene Roddenberry's hopeful vision. Having an Admiral drop an F-bomb and seethe at a living legend like that, even a legend who'd slipped up on live television, was played for shock value over genuine substance and it took me out of the moment (although it was some incredible acting from both parties, I must admit). Humans aren't supposed to carry grudges, aren't supposed to swear and aren't supposed to be rude to one another. It helped when, later, there was a suggestion that this particular Admiral was part of a conspiracy within Starfleet. If she's revealed to be a Romulan stooge, or even an undercover Romulan, then I'll be able to live with it in retrospect.

And yes, like @KALofKRYPTON mentioned, I noticed the particular starship on holographic display, as well as the shuttlecraft of that era being used as a taxi. I rolled my eyes, but it wasn't offensive. TNG itself often used anachronistic ship models for budgetary reasons, so I'm sure the same can be said of the latter example here, at least. I was also already giving them props for the auxiliary craft featured in the Utopia Planitia sequence, which were all slightly-modified ARGO shuttles from Nemesis. A very cool touch, and a welcome sight after noticing those gangly starships being constructed in orbit.

@Fullbringlchigo Honestly, I've always thought that First Contact sparked a whole divergent timeline anyway, so your theory has been my personal head canon for years already. If the events described in the 2009 film can create such stark differences, far more impactful things have been recorded in multiple episodes of each series, not to mention The Voyage Home and, as you say, First Contact. It's why whenever anybody decried "Regeneration" (ENT) I'd defend it, because it doesn't change the substance of history, only its details. The Borg would still come looking for the Federation in the 24th Century. Who cares if it was because of simple curiosity or a paradoxical distress call (or heck, V'Ger)?

Decided to start watching TNG from the start on Netflix. I’m too young to have watched it during the original run but I’ve seen a good chunk of episodes on repeat. This time though, I’ll watch all the episodes in order, which I would assume is the correct way to watch the show.

@nessisonett Yeah, it's a linear show. Its final two seasons were produced and broadcast concurrently with the first two seasons of Deep Space Nine, and there are minor crossovers in two episodes, but it's all self-contained. There's no need to undertake any kind of marathon "Stardate Order" episode plan!

@nessisonett yes it is but i have to warn you, the first 2 seasons have a few "questionable" episodes

if you have seen Code of Honor yet you will know what i mean

@FullbringIchigo Oh dear. It’s very telling when the cast of the show are so outspoken about how bad an episode is. Some episodes seem to be rather... outdated at best.

@nessisonett @FullbringIchigo You think that's bad? Try re-watching the original series. Every other episode had a "Code of Honor" moment. At least TNG quickly matured in its third season (and the first two seasons contain episodes like "The Measure of a Man" and "Unnatural Selection", more than enough goodness to offset any amount of facepalming cringe).

@nessisonett @RogerRoger season 1 and 2 had some great episode in it but it also had some stinkers but year as Roger said it's season 3 when it really starts to become the TNG everyone talks about, funnily enough after Gene was pretty much removed from control, the Trek everyone talks about being true Trek wasn't actually made by Roddenberry but by Berman instead so when someone says a current Trek is "disrespecting Genes vision" well it isn't, if you take a honest look at Discovery and the Kelvinverse films they actually are a lot more like Genes Trek (TOS) then you think, if anything while Star Trek is Genes creation it wasn't his vision that made it, it was Bermans

@FullbringIchigo @LN78 It's a little of both, I'd say.

Rick Berman was mentored by Gene Roddenberry in much the same way current Star Wars creative darling Dave Filoni was mentored by George Lucas. They carry forward the spirit and intent of the franchise whilst breaking free of a creator's repetitive, cyclical patterns of thought.

Yes, a lot of TNG's second season features repurposed scripts from Star Trek: Phase Two, including "The Child" and reportedly the hideous "Up the Long Ladder", but they were repurposed by Berman and his team, as they escaped the clutches of the dreaded Leonard Maizlish, the ageing lawyer Roddenberry had given script control to after growing frustrated with Paramount executives. The fact that these scripts were at least filmable was down to Berman. Without him, TNG would've either been cancelled, or forced off the air after transmitting offensive, barrel-scraping first drafts. Or the cast would've walked; heck, they'd lost two already (Crosby and McFadden).

That isn't to say Berman is flawless. The writer's strike and budget cuts forced him to greenlight "Shades of Grey" as the second season finale (yeesh) and at times, he could be over-protective of Roddenberry's vision, but he was the driving force behind everything... and I think we can all agree that, overall, TNG is way more great than terrible (as are all of the spin-off shows, objectively).

@LN78 I love the story behind Guinan.

Apparently when she was a kid, Whoopi Goldberg turned on the television and saw Nichelle Nichols as Uhura, on the bridge of the original Enterprise, holding a rank and interacting with the crew as an equal. She ran through the house, screaming "Mummy, come quick! There's a black woman on TV and she's not a maid!" and credits it as the moment she realised she could be a success.

Fast forward to the late 80s (the height of her fame) when there's buzz surrounding the return of Star Trek to television, and she calls her friend LeVar Burton, who's just been cast as Geordi. She says "tell them I wanna be on your show" and he promises that he will. The show begins, and the first season a ratings hit. Whoopi calls LeVar again, asking why she never got a call about appearing, and he says "They thought you were kidding! You're a huge star, you can't do television!" He quickly set the record straight, and she gets a meeting with Roddenberry and Berman. She tells them her personal story of seeing Uhura and says that she wants the opportunity to do the same for the kids of the late 80s / early 90s.

Apparently, the next day, Ten Forward and Guinan started being written into the scripts.

From what I gather, it was Diana Muldaur herself who declined to appear in the main credits, requesting that she'd rather have a "special appearance" guest billing. She was living out in the desert at the time, giving her career a break, and I guess she just wasn't sure about making such a solid commitment (which panned out well, as she didn't enjoy her time on TNG at all, and vowed never to do science fiction again after suffering with the heavy prosthetics in "Unnatural Selection"). There were plans to continue with Pulaski in the third season, which is why Crusher seems more strong-willed and brazen in episodes like "Who Watches the Watchers" and "The High Ground" as they were written for Pulaski, and hastily re-written for Crusher. She would have also paired up with Worf, given how close they'd become over the course of the season (no, really). When Muldaur declined to renew her contract, Gates McFadden was contacted and told that the producer who'd abused her during the first season had been fired, sparing the Enterprise-D its third new CMO in as many years.

Oh, and the Borg's first appearance is "Q Who?" towards the end of the season.

Sorry for the wall of text.

@RogerRoger I'm glad Crusher came back, i never really liked Pulaski, no disrespect to the actress but the character just never seemed to fit with the others

@FullbringIchigo I liked Pulaski a lot, because she had character (albeit one shamelessly pinched from DeForest Kelley). Whilst I love Gates McFadden and the handful of episodes that tried to define Crusher, I had to agree with YouTube series Honest Trailers when they said "Dr. Crusher, who's... just kinda there."

But you're right, McFadden was very friendly with her fellow cast, which helps with the on-screen chemistry, whereas Diane Muldaur didn't manage to gel as well (they all got along, mind).

so the official Star Trek website put up a quiz, so anyone fancy giving it a go?

https://www.startrek.com/news/the-toughest-star-trek-trivia-q...

in case your wondering i got 14 out of 15, the one i got wrong was about something that happened in a Short Trek they never released outside of America so i don't count that one, i can't know something they wont let us see now can i?