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Topic: JRPG, The Best Genre? (Discussion)

Posts 21 to 39 of 39

themcnoisy

@DerMeister: "Can I just say that I've never understood the turn based vs. action argument?"

This is important actually with getting into square enix mindset for final fantasy post 10-2. At the point ff11 and 12 released I was disillusioned they had made the switch away from turn based 3/4 character fighting. I was incredibly disappointed, I could get my action kicks in other games so why were they changing that up? The last remaining bastion through the whole of the franchise.

The reality was that the developers were probably sick to death of turn based jrpg line fighting themselves as it has serious limitations. I'm glad they have altered the games to a more action packed take on the formula and the FF15 system makes sense. I cant fathom Noct, Gladio, Pronto and ignis standing in a line awaiting orders like the earlier games as it would be rubbish in comparison.

I'm not saying Western RPGs are any better - in fact Dragon Age Inquisition and Fallout 4 did nothing for me as the same rules apply there too. Openworld, Action, shoot em ups you name it - Give me something fresh, something fun, something new.

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PSN: mc_noisy

Fight_Teza_Fight

Don't know about the best. I love JRPGs & they make up ~30% of my games library.
However, the things I also most hate about video games are often represented in them. Random encounters, unnecessary difficultly spikes, representation of women (let's not get into that one) particularly in Japan-only games that drag down the perception of JRPGs elsewhere, etc.....

The golden age of JRPGs has passed. Sure there are great-incredible games still coming out, but there are few and far between all the cannon fodder.

I would genuinely say that racing games are probably the most consistent. How many 'bad' racing games are there really?

Fight_Teza_Fight

KratosMD

Fight_Teza_Fight wrote:

The golden age of JRPGs has passed. Sure there are great-incredible games still coming out, but there are few and far between all the cannon fodder.

Interesting that you would think that. From my perspective, I feel like the JRPG genre hasn't ever been stronger than now. I mean, look at how many games in huge franchises that have come out and will come out: Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts 3 (and 2.8), Persona 5, Scalebound, World of Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest Builders, Dragon Quest VII and VIII remakes on the 3DS, Final Fantasy VII remake, Dragon Quest XI, Tales of Berseria, Bravely Default/Second, Xenoblade Chronicles X, the Dark Souls/Bloodborne games, Pokémon (Sun/Moon), Ni No Kuni 2, Nier Automata, Fire Emblem Fates/Awakening, Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth, the list goes on and on not to mention the amount of quantity of lesser known JRPGs on the PlayStation and Nintendo consoles such as Trails of Cold Steel II and Fantasy Life. I mean, there's an abundance of JRPGs getting made today and most of them are seeing immense success. I can't think of a better time for a JRPG fan to live in than now.

KratosMD

Fight_Teza_Fight

@KratosMD: They are definitely making a comeback & the immediate future is looking bright. But a lot of those games are yet to be released, old games with a new skin & have had massive development times.
I'm taking the genre as a whole in consideration. It's a numbers game. Every other week on the PSBlog a new JRPG gets dropped. The market has become oversaturated. For gamers like ourselves, we are aware of the good ones. However there are plenty of gamers that just see a 2min YouTube trailer on the PSchannel for the latest harem simulator.

I feel like 'true' JRPGs are dying. They have been westernised. To the point were lines are starting to get blurred. What makes FFXV a JRPG & TW3 a ARPG- just the place it was developed?
I am Setsuna is an example of this. I have heard nothing but great things about it, however Square have reportedly suffered massive losses due to it.
That's why a lot of the games that we are getting are remakes/remasters or sequels to proven franchises with well established fanbases.
How many new IPs have we had?

Anyway kind of getting away from the OP. Just my take on it. FFXV, TLG & Digimon Story would be in my top 5 of 2016. 2017 is looking even better, but beyond I'm starting to worry.

Edited on by Fight_Teza_Fight

Fight_Teza_Fight

RPE83

@KratosMD:

Extra Credits had a good theory on cultural differences between Americans and Japanese (two biggest game design countries) explaining that most Japanese Games will feature you playing a set character, and the weapons are usually extensions of the character (Even Samus's gun's are extensions of the suit and the self and personal to her, Snake in Metal Gear picked up weapons initially at a given time that were then personal to him, not just fallen soldiers weapons) so when they write a game, they can focus on characters and plot for those characters, you have some small choices along the way, but overall you are almost like an actor, bringing a small spin to a set story.

Think about in Final Fantasy VIII Squall having a gun blade because it was "hard to master", or Zell using his fists because it was direct and unsubtle, like his character. Apparently that ties into the Japanese culture of practise and skill, the mastery of something is to be admired, respected and aspired to.

American designers tend to write characters as blank templates or avatars and let you define the characters via clothes and weapons. Look at Skyrim, Call of Duty, essentially your weapon and armour are the characters. There isn't a lot of plot or narrative focussed on your own character development, you are almost a mechanic to drive the story along because the games are so open ended, you solve a series of quests and mini quests at your own speed, sometimes in isolation or combinations different to other people. The designers don't want to give you any character, as you remain almost as blank as canvas as you can be; you get betrayed, beat monsters etc, but the writing rarely shows how the character reacts to that. The country was built on weapons or guns being powerful and anyone can have power through a weapon, so the person wielding them are less important.

I think that's why Witcher III was received so well, it was a good JRPG wrote by a Western Studio, taking good parts from each design. You played Geralt's tale, but you did have some choices and the way you set your character up (death dealer, sign heavy, potion heavy) meant you felt he was YOUR Geralt.

I didn't do the video justice, but as a fan of good examples of both styles, it was interesting to look at why they are different.

Some Japanese stuff has bits I'm not so sure about (Silly levels of Titilation/Objectification of Women, and general wierdness) and too much of that can put me off, but I probably should give Persona a try, I keep hearing good things about it.

Edited on by RPE83

RPE83

RPE83

@Fight_Teza_Fight:
But surely what you said isn't just JRPG's, it's gaming as a whole.
When everyone trumpted massive budgets and "bigger than hollywood" , the industry fell into the same trap as Hollywood creatively. With so much money invested in each product and the risk/reward of each launch becoming severe, they have to release products that will recoup revenue primarily, and the best way is aiming "7/10 play it safe and appeal to broadest spectrum"

It looks like console gaming sales as a whole are down in Japan, so it would make sense for developers to court a wider audience. It's sad, the fact things are becoming more homologous, but I guess that's the way it is.

RPE83

KratosMD

I've got to say now a couple of months later that I still find JRPG to be the best genre, partly due to me discovering the wonderfulness of The Legend of Heroes franchise. I love a lot of games, but the only ones that stand high on my top list of best games of all time right now are JRPGs; Persona 4 Golden and Trails of Cold Steel more specifically. Also playing games such as Final Fantasy IV and VI as well as Persona Q and 5 have given me much more reason to believe that the level of depth in JRPGs in general is unparalleled to any other genre. One after the other is becoming a favourite of mine and I think I'll be pursuing this route for a long time ahead.

KratosMD

kyleforrester87

Nier is the best openworld RPG I've ever played, and after FF7 and 9 it's my favourite JRPG. Let Yoko Taro make the next Final Fantasy, I say! Glory to Mankind!

Edited on by kyleforrester87

kyleforrester87

PSN: WigSplitter1987

Rudy_Manchego

I'll be honest that I struggle with JRPG's and getting into them. I am a bit the same with Anime - I've only really enjoyed the most 'accessible' of anime. From a mechanics perspective, I think that I have issues with turn based games but also with lots of text dialogue choices. That is only a small quibble though and isn't true of all JRPG games - at the core, I think is I find it tough to get into the storylines and structure.

However, one of my new years resolutions was to play games outside of my normal comfort zone so I've been slowly plugging away at P4G (which I am struggling to keep into though I blame that also on getting a Switch and that taking up my portable gaming time) and Nier and Persona 5 have such glowing reviews and feedback from you guys that I do want to try them. I think I probably need to get through my cultural barrier a bit to really get into them.

That said, I don't think any genre is best because gaming can cater for soooo many different tastes. I like the fact that there are so many different genres.

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

themcnoisy

@Rudy_Manchego @kyleforrester87 y'all need some full metal alchemist, sushi, sake and a relax on summer school VR.

I love Japanese culture!

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PSN: mc_noisy

Rudy_Manchego

@themcnoisy don't worry, I am down with sushi, sake, Japanese live action movies and, most importantly, summer school VR but I find some anime just hard to get into. Same with some games (other than summer school).

That said, I know I am missing out on some corkers and I should do my best to get over it.

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

themcnoisy

@Rudy_Manchego 'Japanese live action movies'

Hahaha they are all mostly crap. For anime series (you have to watch all 3 of these) watch Full metal alchemist brotherhood, attack on Titan and deathnote. Long standing anime series If you like them in Fist of the north star, Gundam and one piece pirates. For anime movies Akira, Ghost in the shell and Spirited away.

There's loads more, but like most passive programs on TV they are arguably the most watchable by a married British bloke.

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PSN: mc_noisy

Rudy_Manchego

@themcnoisy Hey, I loved Battle Royale and 12 Assassins (or choppy choppy head head as I call it). I also have Akira and Ghost in the Shell on DVD and I enjoyed them both but never enough to ignite any passion. Ha married British bloke - I think if I got into anime, I'd have to pick what I watched carefully. The missus is already dubious about why I really got a VR headset!

Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot

Reanfan7

JRPG's are my personal favorite genre followed by the adventure genre! It's all a matter of personal preference.

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BAMozzy

To say JRPG's are the 'best/worst' genre is ridiculous in my opinion. There are always going to be at least 1/2 exceptions and quite a few in between these extremes. Its a bit like saying FPS is the best Genre but that can have some 'great' games as well as some very poor ones.

That being said, in 'general' (and I use the word general intentionally), I dislike the genre. In a lot of cases, it comes down to the story, certain game-play mechanics (again not all JRPGs have the turn based combat style that I absolutely detest!), art-style, 'humour' (I use the word 'humour' but the Japanese can have a very different idea on what is 'humour'), cultural differences etc etc.

As I said, not all JRPGs are games I would never play but generally, these rank as one of those genres that I am least likely to buy - there are ones that are below JRPG's like fighting games (SF, MK etc) as there is no chance I will waste my money on those where as I may buy a JRPG if it meets what I want in a game.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

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kyleforrester87

@BAMozzy Don't really think it needs spelling out but It can be the best genre despite a number of dud entries. Best doesn't mean every game has to be incredible. As far as I'm concerned the best games ever released have been JRPG's so I'd say it's the best genre from that perspective. Who knows if I'd still be gaming if it weren't for the genre, actually?

But then I like all sorts...

Edited on by kyleforrester87

kyleforrester87

PSN: WigSplitter1987

BAMozzy

@kyleforrester87 Of course it can be your favourite genre but to say its the 'best' is a bit strong in my opinion. There are better games within a specific genre and obviously there can be the 'best' game within that but I still to say that JRPGs are the 'best' genre is a bit much. I personally rank them as one of my least favourite but even my favourite genres - which are RPG's, Action/Adventure, FPS, Horror Survival to name a few, I wouldn't say they where the 'best' because they happen to be my favourites

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

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