Topic: Final fantasy discussion thread

@LtSarge Nah the remake is fine, its just got too much padding. I guess I always thought that would be the case. For the most part it's okay but at other times it hurts the story. Like when you find out they are going to drop the plate in the original, you rush through the sewers, spend 10 minutes in the train graveyard and then you're fighting up the stairs to kick some Turk ass. In the remake it takes ffoooorrreeevvveeerrr to get to the action.

That said I have not actually cleared the remake. I read about the ending going all Kingdom Hearts and can't say it sounds like an improvement tbh.

I love Midgar in the original.

@LtSarge I apparently put 120h into that "expanded 5 hour section"

@kyleforrester87 You’re not really missing much by not finishing Remake. I still keep up with Kingdom Hearts despite the nonsense and even I was like ‘oh f**k off’ at the end of Remake.

@nessisonett The last 90 minutes or so of Final Fantasy VII Remake is the most annoyed I've been at a game since Metal Gear Solid V. And I know people are all like, "Well, if you want a one-to-one remake you can just play the original" and I get that, but most of the game is a pretty faithful remake but just elaborated on a lot and it's brilliant. It didn't need the anime hijinks, Kingdom Hearts drivel ending. It's infuriating.

@johncalmc There are a few games that managed to totally annoy me by the end. I still refuse to finish Life is Strange. I wasn’t big on the ending of The Last of Us either but I kinda got what they were going for at least. Kingdom Hearts III gave me that feeling of unfulfillment basically the whole game.

@nessisonett The last game that super annoyed me by the end was Alan Wake, hence the review which people got upset about. But it just felt like such a chore to play versus how much I wanted to see what was going to happen that by the end I was totally drained and bored and annoyed. I should have just YouTubed the ending but then that wouldn't really be in the spirit of things, would it?

I still haven't played Kingdom Hearts III but everyone seems to be disappointed with it. I don't know why. I don't think I'd be disappointed with it because despite playing the Kingdom Hearts games I don't care about them or any of the characters or who lives and dies or anything. Sora could get shivved in the back during a prison riot and it would make not one jot of difference to me.

The worst ones, I think, are the ones where everything is golden until the last minute and then suddenly the game goes off a cliff. FFVII Remake is one of those. Mass Effect 3 would be an example too, if you're a hater of the ending, which I'm not really, but I know a lot of people are. Most Resident Evil games annoy me by the end once we start sacrificing tension in a creepy environment for another lab, with another superweapon, and another rock 'em sock 'em absurd ending. Controversial, but Final Fantasy X is another one for me.

@johncalmc Kingdom Hearts III isn’t even like that for plot reasons, it’s like that for the fact it’s insanely underwhelming from start to finish.

@nessisonett See I find this hard to get my head around. Surely all they have to do to make a successful Kingdom Hearts is have you run about a bunch of Disney places smashing stuff up with a big key.

@johncalmc Problem is that it’s far too easy, the worlds are incredibly linear, the Pixar worlds feel like dodgy Chinese knock-offs and it’s over before it feels like it’s even got going. Imagine making a Toy Story world which is 10% Andy’s Room and then the rest is set inside a completely made-up toy shop which isn’t Al’s Toy Barn, there’s zero reference to toys from the movies inside it and it resembles the shopping center from Dead Rising.

So I just have to ask (about original FF7): do members outside of the immediate party receive EXP even if they don't participate in battle? Because I'm kinda concerned that I'll have to constantly switch out members so I don't have a bunch of underleveled members at the end of the game.

@LtSarge Party members not in the current party get half XP. So you’re better off sticking to the one party for now so that you aren’t spreading around the half XP and once you get later on then grinding the characters you want to use isn’t as painful. If you’ve finished Kalm then Yuffie should be your next stop anyway.

Side note: I absolutely hate the half/no exp for non-main party members in RPGs. You either have to keep periodically grinding to level everyone up together, or you make a decision the first time you meet a character and then pretty much have to stick with it forever. I like it when everyone levels up so you can swap characters in and out as you please, and so when you get the obligatory "And now here's the boss battle where you only play as Kimahri" I'm not tearing my hair out because I never used him at all.

@nessisonett Ah I see, that's good to hear. I was kinda worried it would be like FF4 (I think it was that game) where characters would temporarily leave and come back the exact same level as when they left. Never used them again in that game because of that. At least receiving half EXP and being able to be called upon at any time on the world map are better than that.

Thanks for reminding me about Yuffie btw. Didn't know that she can be found in any forests and I just passed one while going to the next town, so it was easy for me to locate her. It's also cool that she's the ninja character, can't wait to buy some shurikens so I can properly use her Throw command. Although I do have to ask, since Throw and all these commands can be moved because they are based on materia, is there any difference in having the command on the character that specialises in it or any other character? For example, does the Throw command deal more damage if Yuffie has it rather than Cloud?

@johncalmc I agree, that's kinda the issue with most older JRPGs I think. Most modern ones I've played like Persona, Trails of Cold Steel or even Tales of Vesperia have shared EXP. FF4 is a good example of not having shared EXP while still having party members rotate out that don't get any additional EXP since leaving the team. I'm glad that FF7 at least has half EXP shared.

@LtSarge Yeah, you can get Yuffie in any forest I think but she has a higher chance of spawning in a specific one. Not sure which one from memory. I'm thinking Gongaga but I don't know why.

All the damage is based on stats but it barely makes any difference for the most part and it doesn't do special damage if the materia "fits" a certain character more. So like Throw is a Yuffie thing but it's actually less use on her than it is on most characters because the damage output is based on a) the strength of character and b) the strength of the weapon thrown. So Cloud, Barrett etc. are the best at throwing and they do most damage with the strongest weapons.

@LtSarge I seem to remember that when you do stumble across Yuffie, you need to get your dialogue choices to get her to join.

Getting it wrong doesn’t mean you’ve lost out on having her but will just have to try and find her again.

FF7 doesn’t really put too much emphasis on character roles like you said before so choosing who to have on your party is mostly based on limit breaks and which personalities you like for the out of combat stuff really.

@LtSarge I actually usually put Throw on another character like Cloud, Red or Vincent. Stat-wise, I think it matters more the stats of the item you’re throwing than the person doing the throwing. If there’s an annoying boss (Schizo I’m looking at you), I’ll usually chuck my outdated weapons at it.

@johncalmc @Thrillho @nessisonett Thanks for all the help guys. Going forward I'll just stick with one group that I find the strongest (Cloud, Barret and Red right now) and give them the materia.

Gotta say though, I think I'm liking the materia system way more than whatever was in FF6 (I think it was Relics?). It's a way more flexible system where you can move things around as much as you like and it's not too in-depth either, so you don't have to spend too much time in the menus. Not to mention that you don't have to buy new magic spells all the time, you just level up the materia and gain new spells, which is cool. It's simple, yet very satisfying.

@LtSarge The materia system is miles easier to use than basically any other Final Fantasy system. That has good points and bad. It means anyone can pretty easily get into it and enjoy it without needing to sit going through stats and tactics and stuff, but it can rub the purists the wrong way for being too easy. Personally I always liked the simplicity of it - certainly a contributing factor into how it became such a massive success.

@LtSarge Yeah, if you ever got onto FF8, then you're in for a treat with the very polarising "junction" system!

The materia system in the Remake is more complex, particularly when you play on hard mode and every character needs a couple of high level HP and MP up materia. It also has loads of new materia types but is much more stingy in other ways with no "all" materia and just one called "magnify" which is a weakened version of it.

@johncalmc not sure the materia system is easier to use than FF9 to be honest!

As for the experience share (or lack of a complete exp share) it’s basically a none issue in FF7 unless you decide to use Aeris in your squad until you.. need to pick someone else. I guess it would make a difference on the second to last boss too if you don’t have KOT. I’ve never tried taking that boss on by switching teams 😂