Topic: Can we please get some clarity and consistency on language for this site?

@kyleforrester87 But that is a hypocritical stand point. Yes their house, their rules but also one rule for one and a rule for an other?
They should lead by example. Just my two pennies on the matter. And ass is not profanity. Put it with, let's say hole, then yes that is maybe profanity if aimed at some one else.

Also @Tasuki does a fine job and I did not know you got flagged if tagging ant? For he is the ruler looking down upon his domain, laughing at us all

@ZeD But they don't owe anyone anything, it is their house, their rules, and it's your choice if you want to stick around or not. As mentioned if they upset people by being hypocritical then they risk losing members. That's the way I like to look at it, nice and simple. I admit it doesn't work very well when you're governing a country or something

@kyleforrester87 I completely agree, their house, their rules. The problem is that no-one seems to know what the rules are. One person can post something and face no action, while another can post exactly the same and receive a warning or a ban.

If they want to warn/ban people for using the word 'banana', they can... I'm simply saying that they need to make everyone aware of it, and be consistent in their handling of it. If a word or expression is 'offensive' in a particular context, then any person using it in that way needs to be treated in the same way.

@Paranoimia Hey, if no consistency is one of their unwritten rules fair play to them

Honestly, I know I am being a bit jerky and in reality it takes people who care like you and the site owners to sit down and find a solution to make things better.

@Paranoimia It's as simple as if a mod tells you (usually very politely) to not use that word, whether or not someone else had used any particular word, just stop using that word.

They're neither omnipresent nor omnipotent (hey @RogerRoger @FullbringIchigo - I just legitimately got to use 'omnipotent' in a sentence!), some things are going to get through while some get policed.

@KALofKRYPTON Yeah I do hate the whole mentality of someone feeling hard done by because they were told they couldn't do a certain something, but someone else got away with it. Just own your mistake and take it on the chin.

@Paranoimia
Totally agree. To be fair its the same thing everywhere. Some people are more likely to get away than others.

@KALofKRYPTON If only it were that simple. It's clearly not, as (a) my ban was revoked in under 3 hours, and (b) ShogunRok has stated they're aware it's an issue and are discussing it.

They may not be omnipresent, but we've established that if certain words are used, notifications are sent. In which case, someone is always aware. All I'm saying is that the entire moderation team need to be on the same page with regard to dealing with 'violations', so we at least get consistent results, even if we don't like them.

To extend Tasuki's own analogy of learning from our parents... if a kid says "oh b*llocks" in front of his dad and his dad laughs, but the kid gets a clip round the ear when he says it in front of his mum, he's pretty much going to ask why. Not because he feels hard done by, but simply to help figure out where the line is.

@Paranoimia I agree completely with your posts, even though I don't post enough to really have an opinion....

I will say that words change meaning and I believe b*tching was originally used because old fashioned dudes used to associate complaining with women. Hence why the word b*tching was used as a word for complaining. I think the other way is from old fashion people who believe that women b*tch about eachother i.e. being nasty.

I'm not saying that's why it's still used or even that it's a swear word but I think that's why it is used in that way originally so the association with the insult b*tch is there.

I say old fashioned dudes because I don't think women complain any more or less than men do, I love a good moan and also women aren't any more b*tchy than men as I also love to b*tch about people/things!

There's a great episode of South park about the use of the word f*g involving some Harley Davidson riders which illustrates my point a bit further.

@Paranoimia Well, there's the line - daddy likes a bit of potty-mouth but mom doesn't, kids work that sort of thing out pretty quickly

"They may not be omnipresent, but we've established that if certain words are used, notifications are sent. In which case, someone is always aware"

In work, I often get upwards of 50 emails per day that I have to deal with alongside a raft of other considerations through many other channels. Call me lax, but I promise you I'm not 100% aware of everything conveyed by all of those things all of the time; or if I am, things get prioritised and occasionally something might not get the best attention.

As you point out, your ban was revoked quickly as the situation was assessed in a relatively short time. They're people, they might make a bad call every now and then, it happens.

I would much rather the more personal, somewhat inconsistent approach (which realistically, comes down to moderate yourself or we'll ask nice), than for the comments section to be properly farmed out on disqus or kinja or something.

@ShogunRok I think the issue is that you guys tend to be more lenient if you want to be funny in an article. I think that doesn’t help when the inconsistency. I also think one * being used to censor a bad word being okay conveys a more lax environment that encourages problems. Overall though I love that this site doesn’t allow swearing. It makes it a friendly place and a good one for people like me who just don’t like swearing. Some may consider nothing wrong with some foul language, but then people also can find obscene jokes nobody wants to hear fine too. Without these rules and the way the internet it, it’d end up like reddit. Not allowing generally considered obscene things sets a tone that helps get the idea that we’re not gonna sink as low other places out too I feel.
It to don’t think tip toeing allow more and more will be helpful.
@shogunrok A community reminder about the importance of reporting and helping the staff keep the site clean might also be helpful.

@Paranoimia not that it's really the point of your post, I just love a good etymology lesson! I also believe when it's used as a positive term like "that ride is b*tchin'" that it is just a typical corruption of bad to good like when the words "wicked" and "bad" meant really cool in the 90s

@Paranoimia First off I never said it was about me I just used my point of view since, well I am head moderator here so that's how I see it so to speak. As for what NintendoLife does that has no relevance to Push Square. That's like saying well IGN always me to sware I can do it aware I choose. Yes they are a sister site but they run things how they want to there. I have no jurisdiction there, I don't hold anything that someone does there over here (unless they are a troll account or spammer and I can see that they are only posting links on both sites for some naughty website) so if they want to cuss like saliors over there, that's up to them and how there mod team wants to handle it.

As for articles here, I can not edit, or change articles in anyway (at least that I am aware of) so what the writers put is on them. What I go buy are the Forum Community rules which clearly states

Do not use profanity; Use of unsavoury language including profanity and swearing is not acceptable, please remember that this website has users of all ages.

My job as moderator is to uphold those rules and make sure they are followed.
Do I miss sometimes yes, I am only human. Contrary to popular belief I am not on the site 24/7 I have a 40 an hour week job, family and personal time too so yeah I will miss some does that mean it's ok? No it doesn't.

Go racing down the street at 100 mph in a 40 mph zone and when a police officer pulls you over and gives you a ticket say oh but I saw Johnny do it and you didn't stop him. Is the officer going to say is ok well then it's ok cause Johnny did it I allow you. No he won't andnit anything you may get another ticket for be uncooperative. Just cause someone may get away with it doesn't meant it's ok, I am sorry but that kind of thinking is straight up kindergarten thinking and shouldn't even be brought up here unless a person is of that age. Which then I explain to them that it's not ok.

As for the b word it is slang but so are alot of vulgar words F is one does it mean people can go around saying it? Same with B it's considered Vulgar slang. I mean how times as kids did a person get yelled at by a parent, teacher or other adult for using it? How many times has a kid got a bar of soap in their mouth for using it?

I hope that clears up some confusion.

@ZeD Yeah it's because of his user name (which is his actual name) I also get flagged when people post Moby Dick, Dick Van Dyke, Dick Channey etc. It can be a bit annoying.

And as the T word goes yeah it might be funny British slang but here in the US it's a vulgar term and I can't very well say ok British can use it but US can't. Also I don't need aruguments to break out because someone takes it the wrong way

There you go then, if in doubt about a word don’t use it, and if you do get modded because of something you said that you didn’t even know was a bad word just take it on the chin (or react like a sarcastic idiot like I do and refuse to post for a week, that’ll teach em!) and just because other people are getting away with it don’t join in! Happy days!

As for the article swears, that’s up to the PS staff to reconcile

@KALofKRYPTON Yeah, but the point is, when you comment here, you don't know if it's mum or dad standing behind you! 🤣

I (obviously) don't know how the notifications work. It could be that if I swear, a notification gets sent to the whole team and they decide who's going to handle it. It could be that they're sent on a rotational basis. Or it could depend on time zones and the time the post is made - e.g. if I swear in a comment at 3am UK time, it might be sent to a US-based moderator who's not in bed, but if it's 3pm it goes to a UK-based moderator. But someone is notified and presumably takes whatever action they feel necessary.

Just to be clear, I am not asking for permission to swear - only for guidelines and consistency in the responses. Whether it's me using "b*tching" or someone else using "sh*t", it's silly to be warned/banned when the word appears hundreds of times across the site. I appreciate what you say about them not being able to catch everything, but the sheer number of instances suggests these aren't just a few which have slipped through - some of them must have been conscious decisions not to take action, especially when some have actually been replied to by staff simply joining in with the conversation.

If it's offensive... if it's that black and white, as is the implication... then no-one should be using it, and every instance should be removed or censored, and it's simple - don't do it.

If it's a grey area - and if anything, the various responses to the topic show that it very much is, as everyone has a slightly different take - then reasonable guidelines need to be in place, and followed consistently.

I've no problem with Tasuki at all... he's just doing what he's been asked to do. I'd have made no further comment, but he seemed to feel I was having a go at him. And again, that's why guidelines are required - it gives both sides some form of indication of where the line is, and something other than "well, in my opinion..." to fall back on.

The fact that my account was reinstated so quickly only serves to show that, at the moment, no-one really has a clue where they stand. Tasuki does his job and bans me according to what he believes the guidelines are, I raise it with Sammy and get reinstated pretty much instantly. And it's not even as if me and Sammy are 'best buds' and I was calling in a favour. It's generally not a good look, hence... guidelines. Simply saying "don't post anything offensive" isn't really good enough, as what is 'offensive' differs by person and over time; at one point, saying "bloody hell" would have had every jaw in the room hitting the floor.

@Paranoimia I am not sure why you think I think you are coming after me, I am not thinking that at all I just am explaining things from my perspective that's all.

I can understand your confusion as well. I was confused at first as to why Sammy lifted the temp ban, but that's between you and him. It made me feel like ok I am mod for what reason. If you don't want me to uphold the rules then why ask me too.

I honestly don't see the point of guidelines to be honest. It states clear as day

Do not use profanity; Use of unsavoury language including profanity and swearing is not acceptable, please remember that this website has users of all ages.

I don't know what could be simpler. It's under forum rules, not staff posted article rules, not NintendoLife rules etc it's our community forum rules.

As one user said, if I come in and change the word that's it. You now know what's accepted and not. If I edit the B word in one of your comments then why would you think it's ok to use it in a different comment? Do you seriously tell an officer Well you gave me a speeding ticket last week, but Johnny didn't get one so I thought it was ok? I am not understanding the thought here.

I feelnat this point now this thread is just becoming a dog chasing it's tail and we are dancing in circles.

Bottom line, if I correct it I mention why that's me telling you what you were inviolation of and it does state that repeated violations is a banable offence. The rules don't change daily, weekly or month it's the same as when you signed up. As I said if I do approach you last week on something it's not going to change next week, and just don't do it again.

Indont know what can be simpler.

@Tasuki I think the ''problem'' is that there's no clarity on what is allowed and what isn't. Obviously some words are clear, but some are a grey area. So it's like saying you're not allowed to drive too fast, and you get a ticket for speeding when you're only driving 30mph, because 25mph was the limit, but nobody told you. And of of course @Shogunrok is speeding by at 80mph without getting fined at all

But yeah, I can completely understand that why there's not a ''list of vulgar words you're not allowed to use'' somewhere on this site. Even though it would help.

Anyway, don't worry, I encounter the same problem on NLife. But like you said, as long as nobody is getting banned for a mistake, there's not a huge problem I think.

_{Let's keep on the topic at hand please. Thanks -Tasuki-}

@Octane But there is clearity. If for example you say "This game is a piece of ****" and I come along and change it to "This game is a piece of poo" and at which point I @ you with the following

As per community rules

Do not use profanity; Use of unsavoury language including profanity and swearing is not acceptable, please remember that this website has users of all ages.

So let's watch the language from now on

Thanks for understanding

What can be more clearer?

Again I feel like the issue here is people getting upset that they get caught more then anything.

Again of the speed limit says 40 and you are going 80 and you get a ticket is the officer going to let you off without at least a warning? No he won't. And what will happen if you said to him but Johnny did it?? Is he going to say ok well nevermind keep doing it? No he isnt.

That's what I am getting at here